Emergency Declared In Thailand

[sendbaht]

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra you have my support, go baby go.

[VanZam]

Got to laugh at the people who are trying so hard to defend Thailands democracy....like it is one!

Come on, gimmie a break, when you buy your way into power(300b per vote), then limit press freedoms (or in thuksins case OWN the press) then thats NOT democracy.

Nobody has said what the difference between martial law and this new law(s). Or any reason why changing words on paper is gona make one single bit of difference.

Martial Law in south Thailand gave police exactly the same powers as they have with this new law... So why you ask was this new law "rushed" through? well....if you keep people scared they will do anything, and on the back of a series of bombings is the perfect time to bring in laws that at other times would get thrown out.

Democracy? "cough" yeah right, anyone who thinks this country is free should just put their head back in the sand.

[ozzydom]

"Please don't intervene. Please leave us alone. It is my job and we can cope with this matter. We are trying to explain this to foreigners. But if they do not understand or ignore our explanation, I don't care because we are not begging them for food. This is what he said in May of 2004 about  the way he was handling things. In my mind there is no way he is going to stop this. The people in the South want three provinces they can call their own. Since the man has taken over the country he has done nothing for the the South anyway. the roads are going to waste, there has been nothing done for the people of the south like Chuan Leekpai did. He was from the South and that is where the money went. Now the man from the north is in charge and see where the money goes, Night Safrai in Chinag Mai, what a Joke.

Give the muslims in the South the control of these three provinces and maybe will be on the road to peace, keep trying to destory their faith and they will be more and more trouble and Yes Bangkok and other places will become targets. This is most likely the only hope, Give into their demands. Three provinces and maybe there would be peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have to disagree with your last statement of give into their demands. If we start giving in to everyone who thinks it's ok to kill and maim innocent bystanders then everyone with a gun, knife etc and with a gripe against someone or some decision that's been made or someones religious beliefs will think it's a green light to go out and start killing and maiming people to get what they want.

Not a great idea I do think!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes you make a good point about giving into the demands of people after they have protested with ways of killing and such. I was just trying to come up with ways to combat this problem withput more killing. Not to say that it will matter too much Thaksin will escalte the killing now just as did with the drug war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Southern Provinces are for all intents and purposes a war zone, but to this point it has mainly been the innocents who have suffered and until the perpetrators of the killings are eliminated innocents will continue to suffer. The decent Muslim population have it in there hands to help rid the world of the killers and bring a peaceful co-existance to the area.

[Totster]

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra you have my support, go baby go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ... now he's got your support, who can stop him eh..?

totster

[richard10365]

I know it says 800 people died in the south of Thailand but I am sure it wasnt all from the violence. Also, how many people died in the rest of Thailand from some sort of violence.

I think the media making a mountian out of a mole hill.

I don't care much for muslims so I hope the PM takes care of business down there.

If I was a farang living down there, I would avoid any public demonstrations cuz I think the PM is about to take off the gloves.

Now that the emergency powers are in effect, any muslims who get caught up and killed protesting the govt,.....som nam nah.

[haha]

my 2 cents...

taksin is doing the right thing. going after the terrorists.

if he did nothing, people would still be murdered.

at least he is trying. that takes courage.

[jaloochapurr]

here is attachment from bangkok post

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/16Jul2005_news02.php

[Tornado]

"Please don't intervene. Please leave us alone. It is my job and we can cope with this matter. We are trying to explain this to foreigners. But if they do not understand or ignore our explanation, I don't care because we are not begging them for food. This is what he said in May of 2004 about  the way he was handling things. In my mind there is no way he is going to stop this. The people in the South want three provinces they can call their own. Since the man has taken over the country he has done nothing for the the South anyway. the roads are going to waste, there has been nothing done for the people of the south like Chuan Leekpai did. He was from the South and that is where the money went. Now the man from the north is in charge and see where the money goes, Night Safrai in Chinag Mai, what a Joke.

Give the muslims in the South the control of these three provinces and maybe will be on the road to peace, keep trying to destory their faith and they will be more and more trouble and Yes Bangkok and other places will become targets. This is most likely the only hope, Give into their demands. Three provinces and maybe there would be peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have to disagree with your last statement of give into their demands. If we start giving in to everyone who thinks it's ok to kill and maim innocent bystanders then everyone with a gun, knife etc and with a gripe against someone or some decision that's been made or someones religious beliefs will think it's a green light to go out and start killing and maiming people to get what they want.

Not a great idea I do think!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes you make a good point about giving into the demands of people after they have protested with ways of killing and such. I was just trying to come up with ways to combat this problem withput more killing. Not to say that it will matter too much Thaksin will escalte the killing now just as did with the drug war.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Southern Provinces are for all intents and purposes a war zone, but to this point it has mainly been the innocents who have suffered and until the perpetrators of the killings are eliminated innocents will continue to suffer. The decent Muslim population have it in there hands to help rid the world of the killers and bring a peaceful co-existance to the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lets call it the Thai/Malaysia border area, as we have no trouble in Phuket.

I do agree though regarding Muslims standing up and publicly denouncing this crap - It seems they do not have a voice on the worlds Muslim problems. It is time they stood up and condemned the violence on a world platform.

[ozzydom]

Also remember he paid for his votes in the first election, he WAS NOT elected, he paid 300 baht per vote in many parts of Thailand - he bought his power and he is out of control. He also has no power amongst the people in the south via elections - he loses down here constantly. If you cannot win via a democratic vote, you use force/propoganda if you have the power - we see it everyday all around the world.

As I mentioned nearly 2 years ago on this forum, he also is trying to clear people out of the area, where he has a partnership with the Malaysian Kings son, to run a gas pipeline from Malaysia to Thailand.  Just wait and see if it makes the news in the next year or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like a case of "You Gets What You Pay For" Torn, Every Government in the world gets elected by pork-barrelling except most of them are a bit more generous than 300 bt a vote. but as we dont have a say in it I expect we grin and bear it.

[VanZam]

I especially like No. 3 on the list from the bkk post...

"Use military forces to help bring the situation back to normal as soon as possible, Authorities performing duties as ordered by the prime ministers orders are exempt from civil, criminal, disciplinary actions."

Anyone else find that scary?

[BlackJack]

a good friend who was also my boss once said to me

" if you're gonna bitch to me also give me a solution"

same for the south of Thailand

its a mess so

how can these problems be solved

not easily and so

i dont envy the PM's position at all

so guys lighten up and switch to solution mode

who knows you may win the nobel peace prize

look at Geldof

[amarka]

hi

well without apearing to be a muslim basher - there are enough people like that around already

and taking into account the difficult political and racial events which engulf this area...

i still do not think that people can possibly have the right to bomb - shoot - and kill... to achieve what?

so in my humble opinion, the Thai government is left with no choice and there will be a crackdown - probably followed by more violence initially, but it looks as if the Thai government has the bit between its teeth on this one and i beleive the muslims in the south are going to suffer...

another sad day for mankind and another question mark over our muslim brothers..

amarka

[haha]

a good friend who was also my boss once said to me

" if you're gonna bitch to me also give me a solution"

same for the south of Thailand

its a mess so

how can these problems be solved

not easily and so

i dont envy the PM's position at all

so guys lighten up and switch to solution mode

who knows you may win the nobel peace prize

look at Geldof   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also believe in constructive criticism.

somebody mentioned that they don't have jobs down there. somebody needs to see what options are available for that area.

how about solar power? could that area be used as a base location for the testing, creation, studying of solar power for use as an alternative energy source?

just brainstorming...

[Nam Kao]

I realize Mr T is as crooked as my path walking down Soi Cowboy,

But Islam is the problem here....

Read the Quran and you will see.

Edited July 16, 2005 by Nam Kao

[roamer]

I suppose those of us who dislike and distrust Thaksin can at least take comfort in the old adage, that if you give a man enough rope.....

[capt_canada42]

Okay for those who can read, try this its about how Holland has become a mess from allowing the immigration of Muslims from Africa to do there work. The kids grow up fed up same as Muslims kids in England. Germany, France, Denmark, Canada and USA because they are at the bottom of the ladder and they want it all now or boom.

OPINION | July 16, 2005

Op-Ed Contributor: Tolerating a Time Bomb

By LEON de WINTER

How Holland, land of Erasmus, became a jihadist hotbed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/opinion/...i=5070&emc=eta1

[darsie]

capt_canada42

YOU ARE A RACIST.....

[capt_canada42]

capt_canada42

YOU ARE A RACIST.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you read the article I doubt it we are all going to pay the piper for our liberal attitudes of many years. No one wants to be at the bottom of the ladder.

Did any one notice how Taksin has cut spending in the south and how many of the attackers were young people who want part of Thailands amazing growth.

[capt_canada42]

capt_canada42

YOU ARE A RACIST.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tolerating a Time Bomb

FOR centuries the Netherlands has been considered the most tolerant and liberal nation in the world. This attitude is a byproduct of a disciplined civic society, confident enough to provide space for those with different ideas. It produced the country in which Descartes found refuge, a center of freedom of thought and of a free press in Europe.

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Edel Rodriguez

Forum: Op-Ed Contributors

That Netherlands no longer exists.

The murder last year of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh, whose killer was convicted this week, and the assassination of the politician Pim Fortuyn in 2002 marked the end of the Holland of Erasmus and Spinoza.

No, the Dutch suddenly did not become intolerant and insular. But these killings showed the cumulative effect of two forces that have shaken the foundations of Dutch civic society over the last 40 years: the cultural and sexual revolution of the 1960's and 70's and the influx of Muslim workers during those years of prosperity.

While most of Europe points to that epochal year of 1968 as a watershed, perhaps no country was affected as profoundly by the radicalism of the times as the Netherlands. In less than 15 years most forms of traditional authority and hierarchy, the counterbalancing forces that made Dutch tolerance possible, were undermined. Among students and the intellectual elites, "civil disobedience" in itself was more admired than the point behind such actions. Provos - students and artists staging absurdist "happenings" - and squatters ruled the streets, and in 1980, the apogee of Holland's cultural revolution, the coronation ceremony of Queen Beatrix in Amsterdam vanished behind a haze of tear gas and anarchistic rioters.

Hence the current image of Dutch tolerance: marijuana served at coffee shops, police officers growing their hair as long as the Grateful Dead, gays and lesbians coming out of the closet without fear or hindrance, public television showing full nudity and, for those who prefer not to work, a government package of benefits that makes a toil-free life entirely feasible.

The second, simultaneous, change in Dutch life was the recruitment of young men from the Rif Mountains of Morocco, most illiterate and many with only a rudimentary grasp of spoken Dutch, to work in Holland's rapidly expanding industries. When they came to the country, often under long-term government work visas, they were faced with a highly educated but apparently decadent society in the grip of a cultural revolution. Many were astonished: was this country some sort of freak show?

No, it certainly wasn't. Under the effusive "anything goes" exterior, the majority of Dutch people held on to their disciplined Calvinist values. To the immigrants, however, this core was all but invisible.

For a while, the immigrants did the dirty work for which no training was needed, and the two factions lived amicably. But during the technology- and service-oriented economic boom of the 1980's and 90's, the demand for unskilled work declined. The "guest workers" were no longer needed in such numbers, but they were also not required to return to Morocco. Instead they were given extensive social benefits and their families were allowed to come from Morocco to join them. It was the birth of the ethnic-religious ghettoes that surround our affluent cities and towns.

And thus the delicate mechanism of Holland's traditional tolerant society gradually lost its balance. The news media, politicians and artists gnawed away at the traditional values of Calvinistic civic society, while in the bleak Muslim suburbs resentment grew among the Moroccans' Dutch-born children, who found the promise of an affluent life unfulfillable.

Meanwhile, the news media and politicians maintained an unofficial ban on any discussion of the problems of immigration: after all, in progressive Holland only socioeconomic problems were admissible. It was simply not acceptable to discuss problems relating to religion and culture.

This mix of cultural confusion, religious misunderstanding and political correctness provided the stage on which Pim Fortuyn performed. In the international press, Mr. Fortuyn was often described as a right-wing radical, a label he loathed. He was a liberal with respect to personal freedom and a conservative with respect to social norms and values - that is, he was a classic tolerant Dutchman.

Proud to be gay, he protested against the religiously based homophobia openly espoused in the Muslim ghettos. Yet he also emphasized the need for integrating Muslims into larger society and tolerance for their faith. His political incorrectness shocked the press and political establishment, but many among the traditional citizenry recognized Mr. Fortuyn as a kindred spirit. This unconventional gay politician spoke up for the conventional middle-class heterosexual. At the time he was killed by an animal-rights advocate in 2002, he was the front-runner to become prime minister.

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Forum: Op-Ed Contributors

Theo van Gogh, artiste provocateur nonpareil, never pursued a political career. In the course of his 20 years in the public eye, he grossly insulted at least half of the nation. His films were intended to shock; his newspaper columns (of which I was the target more than once) were exercises in outlandish mudslinging - although never lacking in humor and stylistic talent. In recent years, he had focused increasingly on the problems with immigration and Muslim intolerance.

The radicalized children of disappointed Islamic immigrants were unable to appreciate the humorous side of the Van Gogh phenomenon. Many of these young men have found an expression for their growing sense of frustration, alienation and anger in orthodox Islam. They have no use for Holland's tolerance of alternative lifestyles, or for its professional blasphemers. Last Nov. 2 a young Islamic fundamentalist, born in Amsterdam to Moroccan parents, shot Mr. Van Gogh in the street and then tried to cut off his head. In a final statement at his trial last week, the murderer declared that he had killed Mr. Van Gogh for insulting the Prophet.

The trial lasted only two days, but the fallout will be with us for many years. Much of the electorate no longer feels any loyalty to the existing political parties. Many want to preserve the Dutch welfare state, but it's unclear how to maintain it in an aging nation that is absorbing immigrants. The Dutch "no" vote to the European Union Constitution last month was just one aspect of this frustration.

WITHOUT a radical change in direction, Dutch tolerance may become its own victim. The first step is enacting laws to curb immigration from Islamic countries. We must also consider ways to prevent arranged marriages between Muslims living here and people from the Rif (more than half of Dutch Moroccans marry a traditional partner from their parents' home village).

In the longer term, we must somehow stimulate young Muslims to identify with the Calvinist values of the majority. The radicalization among small groups of young Muslims, a threat that cannot be fought within Holland's borders alone, is a time bomb.

Perhaps what this country needs most of all is another unconventional, outspoken gay politician.

[DaveYo]

"Thai Thaksin Says Emergency Act Needed to End Southern Unrest"

=====================================================

Reminds me: You can fool some of the People some of the time, but you can not fool ALL of the People ALL of the time . . . . . .

Perhaps this is a GOOD development, because if the general populace of Thailand (Isan & all the rest of the country-side dwellers inclu.) still can not figure out that thier P.M. is the BIGGEST threat to this otherwise wonderful country, then they deserve what they're about to receive . . . . . . .

Mao-Tse-Thaksin, hey ? ? ? Somehow's this has got the ring of truth to it, I reckon !

'C'mon people, WAKE UP and smell the roses ! ! !

And I suppose you have a better candidate to run the country? By all means suggest one. Frankly, Thailand needs a kick in the arse from a tough leader who doesnt pander to petty politics. I am so sick of hearing you whiners go on about the "dictator". He is making progress in a country that tends to be half asleep most of the time and falling continuously behind the "first world industrialised nations". This country needs a STRONG leader willing to make unpopular decisions. In all the years I have been here I have seen with my own eyes, successive governments come and go without tackling the big problems AT ALL.

Let me ask you this, what does Taksin hope to gain by being a Dictator? Power? He already has power by way of his money. Money IS power. Why go out into public life, risk your own money and reputation and possibly end up exciled as a nasty dictator? It makes no sense, so those of you who suggest he is after more money and power are completely ignorant. Sorry, but think about it a bit more. It MAKES NO SENSE.

I say, go for it Taksin, turn this country into a respected Asian and international country. Kill that image of lazy corrupt people. Kill that image Thailand has around the world as the "Sex Capital". Make it into a respectable country that can compete on a one to one basis with any other first world nation.

As for the terrorists, its time to kick some arse. They only understand one thing and that is violence. Wipe the bas*ards out. I for one, would be more than happy to stomp on a terrorists face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Smell what roses buddy??????? The ones above your grave spot or out in the pasture provided you not get blown up.

Get real. Thaskin already has incredible power here in this country. Money is only part of it, but he controls the parliament and if anyone in the parliament says no they are out of the job and get booted out of the party.

<References to the Royal Family removed

/Admin >

But really what we all need to find out is JUST Exactly what is the Insurgents main complaint and argument down south????????? I understand there is a lot of issues but what is their MAIN ISSUE that is causing all this unrest. What we hear coming from the Government issued bulletins and from Thaskin is all BS!!!!!!!!! Lets hear it coming from the Insurgents themselves on TV.

They are doing this for some darn particular reason and that is what we all need to do and to find out pronto and get it settled on the TABLE soon.

Thaskin is going about all this completely the wrong way.

Yes this can spread up north and bingo hit Bangkok. If that happens, it is going to be one hella of a mess when those big Mega stores start getting hit and those planes start dropping to the ground. Many of us people have not seen anything yet if these people really do get organized and make their moves.

Daveyo

Daveyo

Edited July 16, 2005 by george

[meom]

Perhaps what this country needs most of all is another unconventional, outspoken gay politician.

I think winning to world cup soccer once would do more good to the Dutch.

[george]

Update:

SOUTHERN UNREST: Senators alarmed by PM’s decree

Votes canvassed for two-house debate on legality of PM’s powers

BANGKOK: -- An unspecified number of senators are soliciting votes to call a joint parliamentary session that would debate the executive order giving the premier the right to declare a state of emergency.

Bangkok Senator Seri Suwan-phanond said yesterday senators hoped to get the minimum 234 votes from the total of 700 members of both upper and lower houses so that they could convene the extraordinary joint session.

“We want to debate the legality of the executive order,” Seri said. “We believe Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has crossed the line and stands to violate the civil rights of the people.”

In his weekly radio address, Thaksin admitted the decree would affect the civil rights of people but defended the move on the grounds that government officials needed it to tackle the problem in the Muslim-majority South, where more than 800 people have died since January last year.

The grim-looking premier arrived in Yala yesterday afternoon for a quick inspection and was briefed by security agencies before he returned to Bangkok.

He declined to take questions from reporters who shouted questions about the controversial decree.

Interior minister Chidchai Vanasatidya said security agencies would hold a meeting today to prepare for enforcement of the new decree, which he insisted would be used within the boundaries of the Constitution.

According to a government source, Thaksin told police and soldiers during his stopover at an army unit in Yala’s Bannang Sata district that the decree would help them fight the insurgents and added that they would soon have the authority to summon any suspect for questioning.

Senator Seri said the two houses would use their forum to explain to the government the concerns of the public.

“I feel the Constitution has been ripped apart after reading this decree,” said Bangkok Senator Chirmsak Pinthong.

“Thailand will become an authoritarian state that countries like China and Burma can call brother,” Chirmsak said.

One major sticking point, said Chirmsak, was that the decree was applicable to the entire country.

It also stipulates that the prime minister and government officials cannot be sued on civil and criminal grounds, he added.

Meanwhile, Worajet Pakeerat from Thamasat University’s Faculty of Journalism said the decree violated the spirit of the Constitution.

Not only is it loosely defined as to what the government can do in terms of controlling the media, he said, it also provides no real boundary as to how far the state can go.

Chulalongkorn University’s Panitan Wattanayagorn said the decree went against international norms as prescribed in the Paris Minimum Standards of Human Rights.

The Paris standards call on the state to limit the powers of such a decree both geographically and in time. It also says that parliaments must first approve such a move.

The accords also call for the public to be given the right to press charges against governments in cases where their rights are violated. And they call for an independent agency to be created to check abuses.

Nimu Makajae, deputy chairman of the Islamic Committee of Yala, said the decree could create more resentment among Malay-speaking communities, who are already upset with the martial law that has been in effect in a large part of the region for the past 19 months.

Nimu said any harsh government measures could drive local communities to sympathise with the insurgents.

The government has failed to address the long-standing, pent-up anger that has been inflamed by the state’s insensitivity to how its actions may affect the lives of locals, he said.

One way to fight insurgency is to empower local communities so that they have a say in how they can be developed.

The cleric also expressed concern that the decree would affect the way of life of local ethnic Malay-Muslims, especially the part which prohibits large gatherings. He said Muslim funerals and weddings tend to attract large numbers of people.

“The government needs to spell out in actual terms what the decree means to the people and also how it can benefit the communities,” Nimu said.

--The Nation 2005-07-17

[george]

Press group wary of Thaksin

BANGKOK: -- The Southeast Asian Press Alliance has expressed grave concern over the Thai government’s move to grant Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra absolute authority to handle the state of emergency in the South. In particular, Seapa strongly denounces the executive decree which will give the prime minister the power to censor news, intercept telephone conversations and detain people without charge.

Violence and unrest have been escalating in Thailand’s southern provinces since last year. In the past 18 months more than 800 lives have been lost in riots, military clashes and bombings in the region.

On July 16 local newspapers said the government admitted the decree had been mulled over for some time but the bout of simultaneous attacks on the town of Yala on July 14 had prompted it to take the decree off the shelf.

Still, Seapa said, undermining people’s rights is not the answer. “Giving the government this much unchecked power will be more dangerous than any problem they ostensibly want to address,” Seapa executive director Roby Alampay said. Seapa noted that the power to detain people without charge and to tap into phone conversations would probably violate Thai citizens’ human and civil rights.

Government officials insist that safeguards and limitations have been built into the proposed emergency powers to guard against abuse and to protect people’s human and civil rights. Officials noted, for example, that the decree would allow the detention of suspects only for a maximum of 30 days and only with court permission.

--The Nation 2005-07-17

[Pak Chong]

Just to keep the discussion moving. I am currently in the UK and I saw and approved of increased security on the underground last week. It is easy to be swept along on a wave of fear and the governments actions here and in Thailand appear understandable. Historically though, we should also consider....

The Gleiwitz Incident:

The 1939 surprise attack by a Nazi unit on the radio station at Gleiwitz, a German town on the Polish border. This attack, which was blamed on Polish forces, served as Hitler's justification for marching into Poland-thus starting WWII.

The Mukden Incident:

When a bomb of unknown origin ripped the Japanese railway near Shenyang (then known as Mukden), the Japanese Kwantung army guarding the railway used the incident as a pretext to occupy S Manchuria (Sept., 1931)

The 9/11 Incident anyone?? Afghanistan...Iraq....Iran.....Chechenya

The Tak Bai Mosque Incident? (Incidentally, footage and interviews of the real events there were shown inthe UK last week and are sold underground in Thailand but have never been broadcast in Thailand.

Conspiracy theories will always abound and maybe they should but this is also grist to the mill of fanaticists of every shade. It is very easy to become a fanatic. All it takes is a little fear..on both sides.

Food for thought.

[Zoltan]

Give them there own country... but stop the killing of the poor people who did nothing.

[phuketrichard]

so far this has been confind to the three southern proviences. What happens when it moves north?

Phuket has not yet recovered from the Tsumani on last year and the disappearence of the asains from the normal toursit. If the toubles move a bit more... no telling what will happen but for sure you see will see more foreign coverage which so far has been lacking.

Thaksin keeps saying this is only involves locals but I believe it is more. Its not just students upset with not getting a piece of the Thaksin pie but Thaksin and Thailand in general never refering to the southern Moslems as thai.

You can see it everyday/ Thais and Moslems.

Moslems in Thailand are not considered true Thais and until this attitude changes....

Edited July 16, 2005 by phuketrichard

[Nam Kao]

Muzzies are afraid to come up to my area, they think we will cook them in pots

[baht&sold]

Oh boy... been trying to avoid responding to this topic but enuff already...

Not surprisingly, we've read posts invoking all sorts of knee jerk reactions, conspiracy theories etc, the gammot.

To break this down, at least a bit-

Some Pondoks (Islamic schools) prey upon poor and uneducated kids (ripe for nurturing hatred) are the nucleus of the problem. They start by preaching hatred and alienation to innocent kids and later (combined with localised or 'formed' socio economic conditions) eventually produce a few who apparently believe murdering innocent people and becoming a so-called "martyr" is far preferrable to the dismal life alternatives presented, formed and nurtured. Similar to programming a cult member. Sick sick sick

Throughout history, people seeking power have used various "holy" books (Q'uran, Bible, etc, etc etc!) to preach the same crap for their own ends. I lean more towards a Buddhist belief system but surely, if there is a God, there is only one and with many names.

I for one, won't be manipulated, nor intimidated, nor of such weak will as to "simply" condemn any entire faith for the cowardly acts of a few.

Instead of firing into crowds of demonstrators and piling the survivors like cattle to be crushed and suffocated in trucks again (this time with a self imposed mandate?) a better approach would be to infiltrate these Pondoks with intel and arrest the teachers and preachers of hate and follow the food chain up.

I'd rather be in a fox hole with a humanist/pluralist than any coward of any stripe. If one reduces his/her view to suspect ALL people of Muslim faith are bent on anarchy, you're not far removed from the greater fear (for reasoned ppl at least) that you're in grave danger of becoming exactly what you in fact fear most

Last, this whole news alert is a tempest in a teapot imho. By Monday, the govt's posturing will be softened considerably, or at least, great pains will be made to point out, the "enitire nation" isn't under house arrest as some seem to think. Geez!

Edited July 16, 2005 by bahtandsold

[john b good]

"Thai Thaksin Says Emergency Act Needed to End Southern Unrest"

=====================================================

Reminds me: You can fool some of the People some of the time, but you can not fool ALL of the People ALL of the time . . . . . .

Perhaps this is a GOOD development, because if the general populace of Thailand (Isan & all the rest of the country-side dwellers inclu.) still can not figure out that thier P.M. is the BIGGEST threat to this otherwise wonderful country, then they deserve what they're about to receive . . . . . . .

Mao-Tse-Thaksin, hey ? ? ? Somehow's this has got the ring of truth to it, I reckon !

'C'mon people, WAKE UP and smell the roses ! ! !

When you see evil, have the guts to call it by it's real name: EVIL 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"correction" "you can fool some of the people ALL of the time, you can fool ALL of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool ALL of the people ALL of the time" leataways that is anywhere apart from Thailand.

When the head waiter was elected he had fooled "most" of the people or should that read he had "bought" most of the people

[greenwanderer108]

EYE FOR AN EYE, TOOTH FOR A TOOTH???? What is this, the Capulets and Montigues??? If we need to keep in ancient grudges and mutinies that never have a happy ending, why don't we stick to the local ancient remedes.

What the early/pre Thai states used to do in time of conflict for the sake of Unity was send off their daughters or young sisters for marriage with the leader of the other state. This ultimately created family bonds / loyalty that are much harder to sabatage even between the lines of religion. This is highly effective for achieving peace if you ask me.

So what does that entail for the current situation??? Whoever get's Thaksin's daughter, particularly the one still in Uni is certainly a lucky man and ought to be commited to making offspring instead of bombs.

The older daughter not so bad either. How old is she now? Mid twenties??? Heck, even his younger sister, Yingluck, well, I'd do er (inferring a business transaction for you worried sensors )

And what would Mr. T get in return aside from a peaceful tie? Well I'm sure they can send four wives for Ok Awk, whatever that boy's name is. That should settle the score.

Harmony, love, and babies.

That's the best imediate peaceful solution I can think of.

Where's my medal darn it?