Emergency Declared In Thailand

[Boon Mee]

Retired Thai Army General Kitti Rattanachaya gave an interview this week in which he described what he saw as the facts about the Muslim insurgency in Southern Thailand. We are at a useful moment to review the facts. Gen. Kitti said:

"There is still no light at the end of the tunnel. Eighteen months after the government started deploying massive numbers of troops into the region, the situation is getting worse," Kitti said.

"The separatist movement has complete control of the people. Only the land belongs to us, but the people belong to the movement, 100 percent," he said.

A decades-old Muslim separatist movement in the deep south of Thailand died down in the late-1980s after the government granted an arms amnesty.

The violence surged again early last year, resulting in more than 880 deaths during the past 18 months.

The southernmost provinces of Pattani, Narathiwat and Yala are the only Muslim majority areas in predominantly Buddhist Thailand.

Southerners have long complained of discrimination in education and jobs.

Kitti said the separatists have stockpiled more than 7,000 guns, many of which have been stolen from the army and police, including in an attack on an army camp that launched the latest wave of attacks.

Kitti cited various intelligence sources as saying that at least seven Indonesian Muslim militants have gone to the south to provide military training for the Thai insurgents.

"Things are getting worse because the government doesn't accept the fact that this is a movement of terrorists and separatists," he said.

Terrorists, not insurgents...

[razino]

Some Pondoks (Islamic schools) prey upon poor and uneducated kids (ripe for nurturing hatred) are the nucleus of the problem. They start by preaching hatred and alienation to innocent kids and later (combined with localised or 'formed' socio economic conditions) eventually produce a few who apparently believe murdering innocent people and becoming a so-called "martyr" is far preferrable to the dismal life alternatives presented, formed and nurtured. Similar to programming a cult member. Sick sick sick   

Allow me to add a bit more to this. Pattani was originally an independent Malay kingom. Since its annexation by Thailand in 1902, the mostly Muslim and Malay-speaking locals have experienced a fair bit of discrimination and neglect by the central government.

For many years the army and the police have been fighting over lucrative rackets in the South such as oil smuggling, prostitution and gambling, with each side embarrassing the other by burning down schools, stealing weapons, etc, and blaming it all on separatists. Hence Thaksin's statement at the beginning of the current crisis that it wasn't caused by separatists. As an ex-police officer, he knew very well what had been going on in the past.

But he didn't know the wider picture - that for years the Saudis and others have been funding Thai Muslim clerics to study at overseas madrassas (religious schools) where their minds are poisoned with Wahhabi fundamentalist extremism. These clerics then come home and teach their religious hatred combined with separatism to the gullible kids studying at the local ponoh schools.

The end result is a pretty complicated picture with no single, cohesive group responsible, deep distrust of the authorities, and the government doesn't know "who is behind it." Of course they don't. The government is always looking for the proverbial "third hand" or "fifth column" or "influential person" - some group that can easily be identified.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said.....and intelligent....

Edited July 17, 2005 by razino

[greenwanderer108]

Some Pondoks (Islamic schools) prey upon poor and uneducated kids (ripe for nurturing hatred) are the nucleus of the problem. They start by preaching hatred and alienation to innocent kids and later (combined with localised or 'formed' socio economic conditions) eventually produce a few who apparently believe murdering innocent people and becoming a so-called "martyr" is far preferrable to the dismal life alternatives presented, formed and nurtured. Similar to programming a cult member. Sick sick sick   

Allow me to add a bit more to this. Pattani was originally an independent Malay kingom. Since its annexation by Thailand in 1902, the mostly Muslim and Malay-speaking locals have experienced a fair bit of discrimination and neglect by the central government.

For many years the army and the police have been fighting over lucrative rackets in the South such as oil smuggling, prostitution and gambling, with each side embarrassing the other by burning down schools, stealing weapons, etc, and blaming it all on separatists. Hence Thaksin's statement at the beginning of the current crisis that it wasn't caused by separatists. As an ex-police officer, he knew very well what had been going on in the past.

But he didn't know the wider picture - that for years the Saudis and others have been funding Thai Muslim clerics to study at overseas madrassas (religious schools) where their minds are poisoned with Wahhabi fundamentalist extremism. These clerics then come home and teach their religious hatred combined with separatism to the gullible kids studying at the local ponoh schools.

The end result is a pretty complicated picture with no single, cohesive group responsible, deep distrust of the authorities, and the government doesn't know "who is behind it." Of course they don't. The government is always looking for the proverbial "third hand" or "fifth column" or "influential person" - some group that can easily be identified.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said.....and intelligent....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be a little more PC, Patani wasn't an independent Malay kingdom prior to 1902. It may have enjoyed some short periods as a self decared independent state (by the local sultan of course) similar to it's neighbor Malay state of Kedar, it has for the most part over the last 200 years been in a 'buffer' condition among Siamese, Burmese, and Colonial British conflict/claims, paying vassel tributes to one/other in some form or another.

Not implying that it wasn't independent in the sense of economics and market, but certainly not to the long-term autonomy and prestige that the title kingdom would infer.

Edited July 17, 2005 by greenwanderer108

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Anyone familiar with the Patriot Act in the US shouldn't be surprised by this move.  Remember, Thaksin went to Yale and was in the same class with Dubya and guess who is Thailand's #1 trading partner!

When there's an oil crisis, what's the best solution?  Distract, Distract, Distract!

Orwell eat your heart out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thaksin never went to Yale at all. He studied at Eastern Kentucky and Sam Houston State Universities.

[Boon Mee]

Orwell eat your heart out.

Orwell's words, written in October 1941, ring true today: "The notion that you can somehow defeat violence by submitting to it is simply a flight from fact."

Also pertinent to this discussion that in January 1942, when German armies were at the gates of Moscow, George Orwell wrote in Partisan Review that "the greater part of the very young intelligentsia are anti-war … don't believe in any 'defense of democracy,' are inclined to prefer Germany to Britain, and don't feel the horror of Fascism that we who are somewhat older feel."

Edited July 17, 2005 by Boon Mee

[Backpack_thailand]

I really fail to understand what sort of impact this law will have on the troubled south...after all, the police hardly have a reputation for respecting peoples rights down there as it is.

Absolutely!

The police down there can just carry on with their usual daily exploits, only now they've got "permission" from the Boss!

[kreon]

sounds like a mini iraq on the go, if the yanks can's stop it how will toxin

[atulmangalmurti]

good, most of us want to get rid of pm and trt and others but the real solution is to put fence on LOC betn malaysia and Thailand first. then get one by one situation handled by army - no NGO and HR activits.

bring life to normal by evading gurrilas in forest touching to malaysia.

its like kashmir region for india -------

[razino]

To be a little more PC, Patani wasn't an independent Malay kingdom prior to 1902. It may have enjoyed some short periods as a self decared independent state (by the local sultan of course) similar to it's neighbor Malay state of Kedar, it has for the most part over the last 200 years been in a 'buffer' condition among Siamese, Burmese, and Colonial British conflict/claims, paying vassel tributes to one/other in some form or another.

Not implying that it wasn't independent in the sense of economics and market, but certainly not to the long-term autonomy and prestige that the title kingdom would infer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for adding the history facts....the forum needs more facts than fictions....

note: typo kedar = kedah

Edited July 17, 2005 by razino

[SM7WGP]

The governement started to late, they should have a long time ago made a parkinglot of the south and they would not have this problem today.

Take all the musslims and bus them over the boarder to Malaysia and then Close IT perod !

[razino]

good, most of us want to get rid of pm and trt and others but the real solution is to put fence on LOC betn malaysia and Thailand first. then get one by one situation handled by army - no NGO and  HR activits.

bring life to normal by evading gurrilas in forest touching to malaysia.

its like kashmir region for india -------

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the culprits are right there at the cities... not in the jungle...they don't have to hit and run...because we just don't know who they are or pretend we don't...way out... just blame the easiest targets...

[atulmangalmurti]

The governement started to late, they should have a long time ago made a parkinglot of the south and they would not have this problem today.

Take all the musslims and bus them over the boarder to Malaysia and then Close IT perod !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

strongly objecting the opinion.

i was regular visitor of south before problem and people are very nice. i had vvvv good relations with many of them.

its not muslims but the wrong teaching behind ----- sorry for london bombers family they never though of it before.

general comment

this kind of wrong teaching can happen in any religoion hindu, christian, jue, muslims budhist etc.

[ozterix]

I tried reading the article

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/25D...2120BEA180F.htm

but my ISP connexion is refused - 403 forbidden...

as it already started in BKK...? can anyone read it and post the text

agree, you can't give in to people who won't respect your simple existence. Don't know the answer but certainly not to give in to their demand, they would only request more immediately after...

as for generalising on all muslims, not a solution either.

how to get to the bottom of the problem? someone suggested patience and infiltration of their rings of teaching hate, and arresting the master minders. Certainly worth thinking about it. Why are these people allowed to continue preaching after they have been identified as promoting hate and jihad. THey are the ones to stop

oz

[razino]

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/25D...2120BEA180F.htm

Al-Qaida: Wrong answers to real problems

By Soumayya Ghannoushi

Once again I watched the nauseous devastation and massacre, this time in the heart of my city, near the universities and libraries, where I have spent much of my adult life.

Madrid and Bali, Casablanca and Riyadh, I have come to predict al-Qaida's responsibility for a given criminal act through the following test. If I find myself at a loss for an answer to the questions: "Why the innocent?" and "For what purpose?", then, in all likelihood, the crime is of al-Qaida's doing.

The absurd, random mass carnage of young and old, male and female is its trademark. Residential buildings, tourist resorts, rush hour trains and crowded buses turn into grand spectacles of mass murder where no heed is paid to the victim's identity and the extent of his/her responsibility for the policies of a country defined as the enemy. The boundaries between the world of politics and that of organised crime are blurred, as political demands get wedded to criminal methods.

Al-Qaida, it must be said, is no pioneer in this field. For although it founds its ideology on religious references and speaks a language overwhelmed by religious symbols, al-Qaida falls largely within the modern tradition of revolutionary anarchists - from the Jacobins and the Bolsheviks down to latter-day Marxist guerrillas like the Baadr-Meinhoff Gang.

Destruction as a passion

Like these modern revolutionary nihilists, al-Qaida warriors subscribe to an instrumentalist logic that recognises no distinction between the legitimate and illegitimate, thereby sanctioning acts of terror for the attainment of their ends. Like them, they are more interested in the act of destruction than its effects. As the father of Russian anarchism Mikhail Bakunin put it, 'the passion for destruction is also a creative passion'.

Al-Qaida is also a revival of the radical currents that surfaced in Islamic history from time to time only to be defeated by moderate mainstream Islam led by the Ulama (scholars). In particular, they appear to be a continuation of Kharijite thought with its dualistic puritanical conception of the world and the community of Muslims and of Gnostic underground organisations like the Assassins and Qaramita, who sought to disrupt the stability of Muslim societies through acts of terrorism.

Al-Qaida would be best seen as a mixture of these political and ideological strands. Apart from the ideological justifications it takes recourse to, one would, indeed, be hard put to find much that distinguishes it from Latin American anarchist groups. Their acts share the same destructive ferocity, the same absurdity. The difference is that where one finds its ideological legitimacy in Marxism, the other seeks it in the Islamic religion.

Islam misinterpreted

How can the murder of the innocent be perpetuated in the name of a religion that likens the loss of one human life to the loss of humanity at large? How can Islam be said to sanction such acts of aggression when it openly forbids revenge and declares in no less than five Quranic chapters that: "No bearer of a burden bears the burden of another"?

How can the killing of ordinary men and women going about their business be permissible when even the battlefield has been regulated by the strictest moral code: "Destroy not fruit trees, nor fertile land in your paths. Be just, and spare the feelings of the vanquished. Respect all religious persons who live in hermitages or convents and spare their edifices"?

Perhaps the one thing al-Qaida militants have proven good at, apart from the shedding of innocent blood, is fanning the flames of hostility to Islam and Muslims. From the darkness of their caves and hiding places, these self-appointed spokesmen for about one and a half billion Muslims worldwide have excelled in stirring latent negative images of Islam within the Western psyche. Through their senseless crimes, Islam, in the minds of most, has become a euphemism for mass slaughter and destruction. Thanks to them, racism, bigotry and Islamophobia could rear its ugly head unashamedly in broad day light.

The terrible irony is that Muslims currently find themselves helplessly trapped between two fundamentalisms, between Bush's hammer and Bin Laden's anvil, hostages to an extreme right wing American administration, aggressively seeking to impose its expansionist and hegemonic will over the region at gunpoint, and to a cluster of violent, wild fringe groups, lacking in political experience or sound religious understanding.

'Us' and 'them'

Although the two claim to be combating each other, the reality is that they are working in unison, one providing the justifications the other desperately needs for its fanaticism, ferocity and savagery.

No wonder, it didn't take the neo-conservative world supremacists long to spot the immense opportunities 11 September handed them. Their puritanical missionary belief in being God's instruments on earth and grand imperial ambitions could now be realised through shameless emotional blackmail and bogus moral claims.

The two share a shallow, myopic, dualistic conception of the world populated by 'us' and 'them' in Bush's language, 'believers' and 'non-believers' in Bin Laden's. Al-Zarqawi and his fellows then brandish the sword of excommunication (takfir) against the Muslim body itself in an endless orgy of maiming and mutilation.

Some are to be expelled, because they are Shia, others because they are Sufis, or Mu'tazilites (rationalists) and so on in a perpetual elimination process that spares no one but a handful of puritan elects from its deadly reach.

The vast stock of common denominators is ignored, that which tears and divides is sought. These would rather see the world turn into an ever- raging battlefield, Muslim societies into blazing scenes of sectarian schism and civil war in a region rich in ethnic, religious, sectarian and linguistic diversity.

I daily use London's trains and buses and could have been one of Thursday bombings' victims. I hardly think that killing or maiming me would have aided the causes the bombers claim to defend. The truth is that these narrow-minded fanatics are a scourge to the causes they purport to champion.

Ask any Iraqi or Palestinian if the bombing of the innocent in Bali, Casablanca, or London has helped alleviate their suffering. If anything, they have handed their oppressors with an open permit to butcher and destroy, safe in the knowledge that blame has been shifted from them to their victims.

Just causes, unjust means

So, Sharon demolishes the homes of Palestinians, expropriates their lands and sends his helicopters to massacre them in their hundreds in the name of combating terrorism. Arab regimes stifle dissenting voices, imprison and assassinate in the name of resisting terrorism. American tanks and gunships invade, occupy, kill and rampage, all in the name of terrorism.

Al-Qaida's mindless acts have turned the aggressor, who colonises, massacres and pillages, into a victim. For all their material vulnerability, victims have a very powerful asset: their moral case as innocent victims. Perhaps, this is the cruellest dimension to these senseless crimes: That the powerless has been stripped even of his victimhood. Even this has been appropriated by the powerful.

The causes al-Qaida extremists speak for are certainly just causes. The sanctioning of genocide and occupation in Palestine, slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Iraq through exposure to depleted Uranium and years of barbaric sanctions first, then through bombing and shelling without bothering to count the dead, brutal invasion of the country, destruction of its infrastructure and humiliation of its people undoubtedly rank among modern history’s bloodiest crimes and darkest tragedies.

But the mindless killing of the innocent in Madrid, or New York is the wrong answer to these real grievances. These are illegitimate responses to legitimate causes. Just as occupation is morally and politically deplorable, so, too, is this blind aggression masquerading as Jihad.

Soumayya Ghannoushi is a researcher in the history of ideas at the School of Oriental & African Studies, University of London.

The opinions expressed here are the author's and do not necessarily reflect the editorial position or have the endorsement of Aljazeera.

[thaibebop]

Those who make comments like 'Crush those terrorists! Dirty Muslims' along these lines should take a stroll out of your world of CNN/BBC and Nescafe, you might learn something authentic. Before you get all emotional with your response, try reading and understanding Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic first.

Ok, waiting for an intelligent/reflective post now...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aha, its all them bloody Brits fault

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

- You're either with us or you're with the terrorists.

- Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Greenwanderer, I hope you're patient. The intelligent/reflective people are quiet on this subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Master Mac, agree with you I do.

I never thought Star Wars could be used to argue something this serious. Cool, huh?

Greenwander, it's not an easy topic we are dealing with here. Many people get angry or scared and lash out at who they think is to blame. I don't think any of us here are experts on such things so, to ask what would you and be realistic is very hard. A lot of what some govs are doing is scary but I don't think even they know what to do. Another reason some of us lash out, frustration.

Padawan Greenwander, what suggestion make you.....mmmmm?

Edited July 17, 2005 by thaibebop

[george]

Update:

Thailand holds senior security officers meeting to deal with situation in South

BANGKOK: -- The Thai deputy prime minister and interior minister Sunday morning called for an urgent meeting of senior security officers to discuss the government's decision to impose an executive decree giving the prime minister the right to declare a state of emergency in the troubled southern border provinces, reported the Thai News Agency.

Speaking to reporters before the meeting, Pol. Gen. Chidchai Vanasatidya said the meeting was aimed at enabling the top security officers to understand better the executive decree, approved by the cabinet during an urgent meeting on Friday which gives the prime minister absolute power to handle states of emergency.

He said the government would explain to the public later about the necessity of issuing the new emergency decree with an aim to clear up any misunderstanding among the people.

On criticisms by members of the National Reconciliation Commission and foreign media on the emergency decree which empowers Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to also order detention without charge, censor news and intercept telephone conversations, Pol. Gen. Chidchai said every country in the world would do the same thing under an uneasy situation.

On the latest bombing incidents on police cars in the troubled provinces of Pattani and Yala, he said they were not car bombs and intelligence gathering should improve after the decree was imposed.

--Agencies 2005-07-17

[george]

Update:

Police car bombed in Yala

YALA: -- A police car was bombed in the southern province of Yala this morning, injuring two policemen and a passerby.

Police said they believed the bomb was planted under the car and was triggered by a mobile phone.

The bomb exploded while police drove through one of the security check points. The explosion ripped apart the car.

Those injured were sent to hospital for treatment.

The incident came three days after insurgents staged a raid in the heart of Yala province Thursday night that left four dead in orchestrated attacks that plunged the town into darkness for many hours.

More than 800 people have been killed in continuing unrest in the three southern border provinces during the past 18 months

--TNA 2005-07-17

[Rumpole]

However, while most of us are willing to work with the govs we still need to be mindful that when this crap is over some laws need to be discarded.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I understand it, laws in Thailand are almost never repealed. They remain on the statute books indefinitely, to be resurrected whenever some self-serving politico out to make a point feels it is expedient to do so.

I just hope nobody in the present administration remembers the one that says all foreigners have to register with the amphur office of every province through which they travel.

[greenwanderer108]

Those who make comments like 'Crush those terrorists! Dirty Muslims' along these lines should take a stroll out of your world of CNN/BBC and Nescafe, you might learn something authentic. Before you get all emotional with your response, try reading and understanding Allegory of the Cave from Plato's republic first.

Ok, waiting for an intelligent/reflective post now...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aha, its all them bloody Brits fault

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

- You're either with us or you're with the terrorists.

- Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Greenwanderer, I hope you're patient. The intelligent/reflective people are quiet on this subject.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, Master Mac, agree with you I do.

I never thought Star Wars could be used to argue something this serious. Cool, huh?

Greenwander, it's not an easy topic we are dealing with here. Many people get angry or scared and lash out at who they think is to blame. I don't think any of us here are experts on such things so, to ask what would you and be realistic is very hard. A lot of what some govs are doing is scary but I don't think even they know what to do. Another reason some of us lash out, frustration.

Padawan Greenwander, what suggestion make you.....mmmmm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I already gave my suggestion in a previous post here:

What the early/pre Thai states used to do in time of conflict for the sake of Unity was send off their daughters or young sisters for marriage with the leader of the other state. This ultimately created family bonds / loyalty that are much harder to sabatage even between the lines of religion. This is highly effective for achieving peace if you ask me.

So what does that entail for the current situation???  Whoever get's Thaksin's daughter, particularly the one still in Uni is certainly a lucky man and ought to be commited to making offspring instead of bombs.

The older daughter not so bad either. How old is she now? Mid twenties??? Heck, even his younger sister, Yingluck, well, I'd do er (inferring a business transaction for you worried sensors  )

And what would Mr. T get in return aside from a peaceful tie? Well I'm sure they can send four wives for Mr. T's son, Ok Awk, whatever that boy's name is. That should settle the score.

This isn't exactly feasible I realize, however had the almighty PM been willing to make such sacrafice/trade, it certainly wouldn't escalate the situation. Sometimes the peaceful road is embodied by the non-pragmatic type of thinking/brainstorming.

It certainly worked (and many will argue is the true essence of the rise of any/all Thai states to any prestige they experienced in the region over the past 2000 years) in the past. Unity certainly the obvious solution. Achieving such is the matter at hand. While some try to fold paper birds and compose (in Thai) songs about being one Thai, it's obviously the wrong (ineffective) way to tackle such an issue.

Influence is the universal medium of power. I believe it is not in the name of Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity or any other organized religion will the world achieve any state resembling peace. Only in the name of a chainless education (what is it called in Education philosophical terms, doctrination/indoctrination something...can't recall) anyway the type of education and sociolization freeing the masses to place value in ideas by way of logic, reasoning, and thought.

On the note, while Buddhism preaches such values of not blindly accepting anything blindly, to follow the path with your own reasoning, etc., in practice a majority of the 90 percent of Thais quoted who hold this title of religion in this country don't live true to this essence. This is not a challenge for debate as it will deter from the topic at hand but if you can't agree to the point, please PM me and I'd be happy to elaborate and debate this if it is that what you wish to do.

So, as far as any feasible solutions to the situation. I agree, one must influence the current influences responsible for such unnecessary blood shed. But I warn and am afraid that 'weeding out' unidentifiable influences will prove to be ineffective. If ASEAN followed the trend of EURO and other United ideologies, erasing unnecessary borders, there could be no valid claims to independent statehood, or soveriegn control, and no one should then lose face over loyalties as the economical loyal factor would be more regional, less national. This is not a domestic Thai issue, and ASEAN should unite to tackle cross-border/national economical, and social issues.

BTW, Razino, that was a very articulated insightful overview of the political cross national situation regarding Islam and legitimaticy.

[rstone]

Here is an interessting link to more information on the history and background of the conflict in southern Thailand.

http://www.ccc.nps.navy.mil/si/2005/Feb/croissantfeb05.asp

[Incobart]

Well, I guess federalism or something like that would be a good start. Country's where people of different kind have to live together, are sources of trouble, look to Belgium (dutch-french) .. Tchechoslovakia ( slovenia- bosnia...) Israel (palestins)..

Give each part there own (sub)gouverment and the solution/control is nearer ..

People don't like to be ruled by another bigger group of people with different idea's/culture... They ask autority, Thai ask stop violence.. giving it may fourfill bouth wishes, respond violence with violence brings no solution, (look to Iraq, palestina)

[ozzydom]

Many posters are implying that the Emergency Act is a ploy by the PM to take absolute control, I was under the impression that he already had that.

I will stand correcting on this point also ,but isnt it normal in times of war or state of emergency that the countries leader assumes ultimate control. ie. George Bush is Supreme Commander of US

[ozzydom]

Well, I guess federalism or something like that would be a good start. Country's where people of different kind have to live together, are sources of trouble, look to Belgium (dutch-french) .. Tchechoslovakia ( slovenia- bosnia...) Israel (palestins)..

Give each part there own (sub)gouverment and  the solution/control is nearer ..

People don't like to be ruled by another bigger group of people with different idea's/culture... They ask autority, Thai ask stop violence..  giving it may fourfill bouth wishes, respond violence with violence brings no solution, (look to Iraq, palestina)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You use Iraq as an example,but it is only an example showing that terrorists and insurgents are only interested in power gained by murder. Iraq is well rid of a dictator( saddam ) it has a duly elected parliament, it is drawing up a new constitution but still the murders continue daily, isnt this proof enough that you cannot appease these fanatics.

[ozzydom]

JIHAD

The lesser jihadis defined as meaning "holy war"against infidel (non-muslim) lands and subjects. It has both legal and doctrinal significance in that it is prescribed by the KORAN and mainstream muslim hadiths (recorded sayings and actions ascribed to the Prophet Muhammad and accorded a status on a par with revelation. "Holy War" is the sole form of war that is theoretically permissable in mainstream Islam.

Muslim law has traditionally divided up the world into dar al-Islam (abode of Islam) and dar al-harb (abode of war, that is,of non-muslim rule). As Islam, is the last, most superior and universal of mans divinely ordained religions, it is believed that the entire world must ultimately surrender to its rule and faith. Until that time, a jihad against non-muslims neighbours and neighbouring lands is the duty of all adult, male and able bodied Muslims.According to this traditional view,Muslims who die in jihad automatically become martyrs of the faith and are awarded a special place in paradise..Maybe this copy I posted in another forum explains the actions of the Muslim extremists.It is one persons view but it is up to the individual to decide on its validity

[JemJem]

As I had expected, there are a lot of messages from racist/right-winger types who say 'Let's destroy all these Muslims' and also from folks who like to attack Thaksin at every opportunity they find.

Firstly, I want to make a comparison between the situation in Thailand and the situation in three other countries. How did the British virtually end the IRA terrorism ? Via just a heavy-handed strategy ? Of course not. How did the Spanish reduce the ETA terrorism threrat to only a handful attacks a year (for most of which a warning is given and very few people get killed). Of course, some of you might say that the IRA and the ETA might 'make a comeback' and be a major threat again. However, I am sure most people would give that possibility very little chance.

Ok, then there is Turkey....Turkey initially achieved quite a good success against the PKK (the Kurdish separatist group) terrorism through the use of a heavy-handed strategy and even captured their leader, A.Ocalan, but unfortunately, in recent times, PKK started to become a threat again. Yesterday the PKK terrorists (possibly a suicide bomber) blew up a tourist van at a tourist resort in Western Turkey and killed 5 people, including a British and an Irish tourist, and this came in the middle of the high season of tourism in Turkey. This will unfortunately be a blow for the Turkish tourist industry. Turkey achieved initial military success againt the PKK and even got the leader. Considering PKK has a highly-top-to-bottom-organised structure (where Ocalan had an extremely high influence), many had expected the PKK to significantly lose power. However, this has not materialised, as the Turkish governments refused to satisfy most of the basic demands of ordinary Kurdish citizens and also failed to improve the living standards in the places where they mostly live.

Thailand simply cannot eliminate, or even significantly reduce, the terrorism problem in the South via just a heavy-handed strategy. Some form/degree of 'politicisation' of the issue is required. This doesn't and shouldn't mean independence or even autonomy. It is even doubtful that the majority of the people in those provinces want independence/autonomy.

One good action by the Thai government would be to efficiently counter the threat coming from fundamentalist preachers at some religious schools in those provinces. As you know, education is vital; and the positive as well as negative effects of education are obvious.

It is VITAL not to alienate more of the people in those provinces....in fight against terrorism, it is vital to keep the amount of civilian support for the terrorists to a minimum.

Oh...and one question...how many of you (this question is especially for the right-wingers and 'pro-heavy-handed-actions people' here) sincerely believe that the number of Thai drug users have been reduced due to that infamous anti-drugs campaign ?!

Cheers,

Jem

[toni157]

Have any of you forgotten where you live? this is a country that will not allow you to have any real ownership of property, a country that is in the process of trying to introduce a financial requirement to visit it -there is already one for you if you want to live here! A country where human rights are at best laughable and where the farangs are glad to be here because, lets face it, most of them couldn't get their pole swinging girlfriends or beach bumb boyfriends anywhere else.

Sooner or later the problems in the south will spread north, because if there is one thing the Bali bomb taught the terrorists, it is that you can kill 6,000 asians, nobody cares - kill 200 white people and you are on every paper in the world.

I livd in Medan for 4 years and when you see the bombs going off in shopping malls and slicing through the skin of innocent children then maybe you will realise you are a long way from home.

[Nam Kao]

I am really surprized they have not kidnapped and killed any tourists/westerners/infidels like

in the Phillipines/Indonesia or other Islamic countries. That usually their MO.

[JemJem]

I am really surprized they have not kidnapped and killed any tourists/westerners/infidels like

in the Phillipines/Indonesia or other Islamic countries. That usually their MO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, Nam 'Fuhrer' Kao........I think by now everyone knows that you hate Islam and the Muslims.

When are you going to write a sensible post regarding politics/world affairs ? Oh...what am I saying ? Can bigots ever be sensible ?

Jem

[Nam Kao]

JemJem, are you a liberal by any strange chance?

thx

nam

[Zarkow]

I realize Mr T is as crooked as my path walking down Soi Cowboy,

  But Islam is the problem here....

  Read the Quran and you will see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't be so freaking ingorant.

Have YOU ever read the Quran?

Before you ask: yes, I have read it, back to back, several times. Infact I have written a thiessis (*sp*) on it which recieved highest grade some years back.

I have also read the Bible back to back a number of times.

Do you really want to take an argument of which religion that has most blood on its hands?

Edited July 17, 2005 by Zarkow