How To Fit-In In The Village

[jazzbo]

Kuhn B at #88: It has only taken 17 years for someone who speaks in generalisations to tell me I was wrong and stupid.

Ah yes and maybe he has hit upon the true value of ThaiVisa.com: I have come on this website and -- while many have expressed appreciation for my assistance -- I have also been called a moron, an idiot, a despicable person, someone with his 'head in the sand' and 'mind in the gutter', Spazzbo, etc. which gives me good reason to maintain a lifestyle wherein I have limited if not zero interaction with farangs on any daily basis ...

The ones on TV with whom I may have some simpatico are not in the region ... and I just presume that the farang locals I might meet are in the former category ... and I much prefer the company of Thais who speak no English.

[MeMock]

Ahhh yes jazzbo, a good plan indeed. Just be careful though because remember ALL Thai people are out to rip off ALL foreigners in ALL villages around Thailand.

[jazzbo]

As long as they ALL try to rip me off after removing their panties I will take my chances.

[grimleybob]

Sinbin

You ask why so many Psycho-analysts on TV simple, there are plenty of patients.

Jazzbo

At first my opinion of your posts wasn't good, as you know. But my opinoin has changed over time to realise that most of what you say is informative and witty. The acid is dished out to the ones who usually deserve it

Have a good Christmas

Bob

[Lesley99]

Personally I love it in the village, the peace and quiet, my girls love it there too.

Yes people have sometimes asked to 'loan' money but no-one has taken offense if we couldn't.

I would feel disrespectful if I didn't wai to the appropriate people.

Anyone else in the kantararom area?

Edited December 16, 2010 by Lesley99

[billd766]

Kuhn B at #88: It has only taken 17 years for someone who speaks in generalisations to tell me I was wrong and stupid.

Ah yes and maybe he has hit upon the true value of ThaiVisa.com: I have come on this website and -- while many have expressed appreciation for my assistance -- I have also been called a moron, an idiot, a despicable person, someone with his 'head in the sand' and 'mind in the gutter', Spazzbo, etc. which gives me good reason to maintain a lifestyle wherein I have limited if not zero interaction with farangs on any daily basis ...

The ones on TV with whom I may have some simpatico are not in the region ... and I just presume that the farang locals I might meet are in the former category ... and I much prefer the company of Thais who speak no English.

Well up in my village I am the only full time farang, my mate comes over from Denmark a couple of times a year and there is an Aussie who is back and forth as he works offshore a lot of the time.

Near the big village is a French guy who speaks very little English and a Dutch guy who is a good friend.

There is a Scots guy I know fairly well but he is about 60 km away by road.

I like my own company most of the time but now and then I get the urge to speak English with someone other than my wife and a couple of Thai friends but apart from that I live in a small village so I speak with Thais most of the time.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn GB -- As you can maybe tell from my profile I spend so much of time assisting persons in Thailand who are disabled that I am often asked if I am a missionary; if that were all I would find myself a bit sickening ... 'jazzbo' is a bit of my evil-twin to knock down that image.

[cardholder]

Kuhn GB -- As you can maybe tell from my profile I spend so much of time assisting persons in Thailand who are disabled that I am often asked if I am a missionary; if that were all I would find myself a bit sickening ... 'jazzbo' is a bit of my evil-twin to knock down that image.

I am sure that he is succeeding.

[macksview]

i am not a full time resident of my wifes village, but have quite a bit of time there over various trips.

people are in the main friendly and show a decent level of respect, it does differ depending on the westerner and his attitudes, me i only have positive interactions, most in the village refer to me by name, but have witnessed them being rude/disrespectful to other westerners, perhaps this is due to their partners actions/reputations.

my tips for fitting in as a casual visitor

1. never been seen as a drunk or an idiot

2. dont get involved in other farangs problems

3. be able to keep a secret (just sit and smile, you know the truth but dont give the game away)

4. participate in village sports days or agricultural events

5. do local things like pick up the nephews and nieces after school, dont be afraid to give a talk at the schools your wife's family members or old uni friends work at, the kids just smile anyway.

6. frequent the local businesses and pay the correct price

7. if someone is doing work on your vehicle or land/house watch closely what they do, it shows you expect a good job to be done.

8. never lend money

9.learn who is who in the village

10 learn a workable level of the local dialect

11.mix with local doctors/professionals/government officials, not the local drunks

12. keep one bottle of lao khao, so older relatives/respected older villagers may have a glass when visiting.

13. never provide alcohol for the local drunks

14 discourage the westerner and his village guide he met while she was plying her horizontal profession, from trying to visit.

15. if your wife's family is well respected, maintain that level of respect with your behaviour.

16.learn the local customs, for government/temple events.

17. realise you will never be a local, but they will realise your values and expectations.

just some of my tips

[cardholder]

I was quite keen to try and pull a longish 2nd post from a newbie to pieces.

However, I think many of the points are extremely valid and whilst there be a slight snobbishness, about some of the tone, it is a good benchmark for someone who wants to be a serious participant in village life.

[macksview]

I was quite keen to try and pull a longish 2nd post from a newbie to pieces.

However, I think many of the points are extremely valid and whilst there be a slight snobbishness, about some of the tone, it is a good benchmark for someone who wants to be a serious participant in village life.

sorry it sounded a bit snobby, i agree with your comment, but i hate having to hear lies being told to other westerners, or thai-glish being spoken, westerners i have not met before, i usually manage to run into them at the local shop and interact with them there.

[cardholder]

I was quite keen to try and pull a longish 2nd post from a newbie to pieces.

However, I think many of the points are extremely valid and whilst there be a slight snobbishness, about some of the tone, it is a good benchmark for someone who wants to be a serious participant in village life.

sorry it sounded a bit snobby, i agree with your comment, but i hate having to hear lies being told to other westerners, or thai-glish being spoken, westerners i have not met before, i usually manage to run into them at the local shop and interact with them there.

I think everyone is here for different reasons and from different start points.

I live in a rural town rather than the village but after 5 years (now staying 9 months per year) I have not had the time/skill/inclination/encouragement/desire to learn Thai. This is a distinct disadvantage in progressing to the stage where you are at.

With a few exceptions, at either end of the spectrum, there is enough room for harmony amongst the Falangs of different origin/social status/linguistic ability/culture commitment etc. I think it is a case of showing respect to ALL people you come across and treat them as you wish to be treated yourself. Tam dee, dai dee is not exclusive to the Thais.

Everyone is different and some people go 'stir crazy' after a few days out of Pattaya or Bangkok - even the those happily resident in a village sometimes need to 'get out of the jungle' to maintain a perspective on life.

[transam]

I was quite keen to try and pull a longish 2nd post from a newbie to pieces.

However, I think many of the points are extremely valid and whilst there be a slight snobbishness, about some of the tone, it is a good benchmark for someone who wants to be a serious participant in village life.

sorry it sounded a bit snobby, i agree with your comment, but i hate having to hear lies being told to other westerners, or thai-glish being spoken, westerners i have not met before, i usually manage to run into them at the local shop and interact with them there.

I think everyone is here for different reasons and from different start points.

I live in a rural town rather than the village but after 5 years (now staying 9 months per year) I have not had the time/skill/inclination/encouragement/desire to learn Thai. This is a distinct disadvantage in progressing to the stage where you are at.

With a few exceptions, at either end of the spectrum, there is enough room for harmony amongst the Falangs of different origin/social status/linguistic ability/culture commitment etc. I think it is a case of showing respect to ALL people you come across and treat them as you wish to be treated yourself. Tam dee, dai dee is not exclusive to the Thais.

Everyone is different and some people go 'stir crazy' after a few days out of Pattaya or Bangkok - even the those happily resident in a village sometimes need to 'get out of the jungle' to maintain a perspective on life.

How right you are.

+1

[macksview]

a trait/skill i have is, i tend to analyse people, my working life has been mainly involved with drug addicts, drunks and the mentally ill, with a client base mainly from the lower strata of society, they differ little from their esarn counterparts, the major difference there not being a social welfare system to support them.

lies and deceit are the rules of most of my client group, when in thailand, i see so much of this in the tourist areas of phuket and bkk, i have never been to pattaya so cannot comment upon that city, that i am disturbed by it, that the only haven appears to be a village where for the most, people maintain a fairly predictable front, liars in the village are generally caught out, and most people's secrets remain concealed.

my wife does not mix with prostitutes or ex-prostitutes, it is not snobbery, it is, she lacks things in common with them, for me i am usually happy to talk with them and their partners, and have met some great people, but i talk to them at neutral venues or their own houses.

hopefully this post explains, some background to the way i post.

[grimleybob]

quote name='macksview' timestamp='1292599422' post='4094089']

a trait/skill i have is, i tend to analyse people, my working life has been mainly involved with drug addicts, drunks and the mentally ill, with a client base mainly from the lower strata of society, they differ little from their esarn counterparts, the major difference there not being a social welfare system to support them.

lies and deceit are the rules of most of my client group, when in thailand, i see so much of this in the tourist areas of phuket and bkk, i have never been to pattaya so cannot comment upon that city, that i am disturbed by it, that the only haven appears to be a village where for the most, people maintain a fairly predictable front, liars in the village are generally caught out, and most people's secrets remain concealed.

my wife does not mix with prostitutes or ex-prostitutes, it is not snobbery, it is, she lacks things in common with them, for me i am usually happy to talk with them and their partners, and have met some great people, but i talk to them at neutral venues or their own houses.

hopefully this post explains, some background to the way i post.

quote

YES IT CERTAINLY DOES.

I think you should read One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest

then consult a professional Analyst

[jazzbo]

I disagree with post #101 8. never lend money ... It is OK to lend reasonable amounts of money; just don't expect that it ever will be paid back.

[Thaddeus]

I was quite keen to try and pull a longish 2nd post from a newbie to pieces.

However, I think many of the points are extremely valid

Yep, but I am going to challenge at least one point for now.

11.mix with local doctors/professionals/government officials, not the local drunks

Quite a few of the local drunks here are the doctors/professionals/government officials, some of them I am yet to see sober, but as their lives tend to be of a higher standard than some, they tend to be happy drunks.

Mixing with drunks is perfectly Ok, you just have to know which ones, that works for both Thai and Farang.

[sarahsbloke]

my wife does not mix with prostitutes or ex-prostitutes, it is not snobbery, it is, she lacks things in common with them, for me i am usually happy to talk with them and their partners, and have met some great people, but i talk to them at neutral venues or their own houses.

Real class comment.

[IsaanAussie]

If you want to fit in anywhere, firstly be yourself, secondly want to be, or enjoy every minute of being there. If you cannot do both then who are you kidding? Let me tell you, its yourself. You Idiot!

I think of myself as a typical Aussie and not known to suffer backside sniffers and fools, and yes, I have a short fuse at times. But I work hard because I enjoy what I'm doing and slowly I have earnt the respect of those in the village that also work hard just as they have had to earn my respect. My life is struggle town as are theirs. As Cardholder pointed out, the starting points are vastly different so I consider myself lucky but not indebted to anyone. What I started with was and remains mine and is the result of a lifetime of working for a living, no golden spoons here. To me a thief is just that and should be dealt with accordingly as should liars and those that offer idol worship simply because I'm not Thai. I am just the same as anybody else here, two arms and two legs, and capable of doing as much as I can in a day simply because I want to.

I have changed as a person since moving to Thailand and even more so since moving to the village. I have my (Thai) wife to thank for that and will remain ever grateful. Strangely perhaps, she has changed as well, we are now all about us, the two of us.

Always listen to a reason something has gone wrong and quietly fix it, but never waste time with an excuse giver. Life, my life, is too short and what is left is to be enjoyed. I can think of no place that I would rather be than right here, right now.

Isaan Aussie

[sinbin]

i am not a full time resident of my wifes village, but have quite a bit of time there over various trips.

people are in the main friendly and show a decent level of respect, it does differ depending on the westerner and his attitudes, me i only have positive interactions, most in the village refer to me by name, but have witnessed them being rude/disrespectful to other westerners, perhaps this is due to their partners actions/reputations.

my tips for fitting in as a casual visitor

1. never been seen as a drunk or an idiot

2. dont get involved in other farangs problems

3. be able to keep a secret (just sit and smile, you know the truth but dont give the game away)

4. participate in village sports days or agricultural events

5. do local things like pick up the nephews and nieces after school, dont be afraid to give a talk at the schools your wife's family members or old uni friends work at, the kids just smile anyway.

6. frequent the local businesses and pay the correct price

7. if someone is doing work on your vehicle or land/house watch closely what they do, it shows you expect a good job to be done.

8. never lend money

9.learn who is who in the village

10 learn a workable level of the local dialect

11.mix with local doctors/professionals/government officials, not the local drunks

12. keep one bottle of lao khao, so older relatives/respected older villagers may have a glass when visiting.

13. never provide alcohol for the local drunks

14 discourage the westerner and his village guide he met while she was plying her horizontal profession, from trying to visit.

15. if your wife's family is well respected, maintain that level of respect with your behaviour.

16.learn the local customs, for government/temple events.

17. realise you will never be a local, but they will realise your values and expectations.

just some of my tips

I'll go along with all the above. Well done Macksview.

[cardholder]

I disagree with post #101 8. never lend money ... It is OK to lend reasonable amounts of money; just don't expect that it ever will be paid back.

In which case that is not "lending" in my book.

[jazzbo]

In which case that is not "lending" in my book... Of course it is ... some PYT may ask you to 'lend' her some money but would not want to deal with the overt implications if you just give her some money ... the loan as you both well-know is to be ultimately forgiven.

... the m.o. can also work with the occasional male who does not want to be seen as receiving a 'gift' from a farang.

Edited December 19, 2010 by jazzbo

[MHayward]

i am not a full time resident of my wifes village, but have quite a bit of time there over various trips.

people are in the main friendly and show a decent level of respect, it does differ depending on the westerner and his attitudes, me i only have positive interactions, most in the village refer to me by name, but have witnessed them being rude/disrespectful to other westerners, perhaps this is due to their partners actions/reputations.

my tips for fitting in as a casual visitor

1. never been seen as a drunk or an idiot

2. dont get involved in other farangs problems

3. be able to keep a secret (just sit and smile, you know the truth but dont give the game away)

4. participate in village sports days or agricultural events

5. do local things like pick up the nephews and nieces after school, dont be afraid to give a talk at the schools your wife's family members or old uni friends work at, the kids just smile anyway.

6. frequent the local businesses and pay the correct price

7. if someone is doing work on your vehicle or land/house watch closely what they do, it shows you expect a good job to be done.

8. never lend money

9.learn who is who in the village

10 learn a workable level of the local dialect

11.mix with local doctors/professionals/government officials, not the local drunks

12. keep one bottle of lao khao, so older relatives/respected older villagers may have a glass when visiting.

13. never provide alcohol for the local drunks

14 discourage the westerner and his village guide he met while she was plying her horizontal profession, from trying to visit.

15. if your wife's family is well respected, maintain that level of respect with your behaviour.

16.learn the local customs, for government/temple events.

17. realise you will never be a local, but they will realise your values and expectations.

just some of my tips

That pretty much sums it all up.

I would go a bit further to say, although never seen as a drunk, it is often good to have a few drinks with family and friends and let everyone be 'happy' together, hais do it all the time.

Possibly using it as a way of temporarily removing themselves from reality of life...who knows?

Above all, be cool, kind, couteous and 'aware' of everything you do or say...often Thais see a very different meaning to certain things us westerners see as 'ordinary'

Enjoy, MH

Edited January 25, 2011 by MHayward

[Dave the Dude]

That pretty much sums it all up.

I would go a bit further to say, although never seen as a drunk, it is often good to have a few drinks with family and friends and let everyone be 'happy' together, hais do it all the time.

Possibly using it as a way of temporarily removing themselves from reality of life...who knows?

Above all, be cool, kind, couteous and 'aware' of everything you do or say...often Thais see a very different meaning to certain things us westerners see as 'ordinary'

Enjoy, MH

Well said.

[jazzbo]

from #101 ... me i only have positive interactions ...Perhaps etc.... Perhaps that's because they know as a 'casual visitor' that you will soon be leaving.

[JurgenG]

from #101 ... me i only have positive interactions ...Perhaps etc.... Perhaps that's because they know as a 'casual visitor' that you will soon be leaving.

It is true that when you live full time people will expect more from you in term of integration to the local community than if you're just a casual visitor, with both positive and negative consequences, people are more helpful with a guest, as a "local" you're expected to know your way around. They may also become less tolerant of your foreign habits. But I agree with macksview it's a trap to go native (tip #17). I believe we should show understanding and respect to the local customs but in return ask the same for our own culture / habits. If one follows maksview's list, it should work smoothly.

[bina]

But I agree with macksview it's a trap to go native (tip #17). I believe we should show understanding and respect to the local customs but in return ask the same for our own culture / habits. If one follows maksview's list, it should work smoothly.

people bring this up all the time: going native . what is meant by that anyhow? ive been in israel since age 22, back to the states maybe four times, raised my kids here on kibbutz. im definately not too american anymore by any stretch of the imagination, and according to my very american parents. someone who lives an a foreign country for any leghthof time 'go native' . u pick up mannerisms, ways of thinking, doing, speaking dressing that u absorb w/o even paying attention to what u are doing until u go back to your original place of origin. especially if u are mostly living in the newer place and rarely going back to your old place. true, a westerner in asia sticks out more like a sore thumb, but frankly, if u were living in europe for 10 yrs u would pick up the habits and ways of whatever country u were living in at the moment. my ex first cousin has been living in switzerland for 20+ years and she is way more swiss then israeli, even her accent has apleasant frenchish lilt to it....

thais lving here 'go native' as well. they eat humous and pita, speak slang words from here, learn to shout and wave their hands during most normal conversations, etc. they've 'gone native'. cant see why going native is bad when in isaan .

especially if u mostly live in your small village. better to get along with all of them then to maintain 'distance and differences ' so u can keep up european appearance for people that u will rarely see .

bina

israel

[grimleybob]

But I agree with macksview it's a trap to go native (tip #17). I believe we should show understanding and respect to the local customs but in return ask the same for our own culture / habits. If one follows maksview's list, it should work smoothly.

people bring this up all the time: going native . what is meant by that anyhow? ive been in israel since age 22, back to the states maybe four times, raised my kids here on kibbutz. im definately not too american anymore by any stretch of the imagination, and according to my very american parents. someone who lives an a foreign country for any leghthof time 'go native' . u pick up mannerisms, ways of thinking, doing, speaking dressing that u absorb w/o even paying attention to what u are doing until u go back to your original place of origin. especially if u are mostly living in the newer place and rarely going back to your old place. true, a westerner in asia sticks out more like a sore thumb, but frankly, if u were living in europe for 10 yrs u would pick up the habits and ways of whatever country u were living in at the moment. my ex first cousin has been living in switzerland for 20+ years and she is way more swiss then israeli, even her accent has apleasant frenchish lilt to it....

thais lving here 'go native' as well. they eat humous and pita, speak slang words from here, learn to shout and wave their hands during most normal conversations, etc. they've 'gone native'. cant see why going native is bad when in isaan .

especially if u mostly live in your small village. better to get along with all of them then to maintain 'distance and differences ' so u can keep up european appearance for people that u will rarely see .

bina

israel

wherever you are just be yourself. Be truthfull.If you say you can do --- prove it. Don't lie, don't big up cos you'll soon be found out and all respect is gone

[JurgenG]

But I agree with macksview it's a trap to go native (tip #17). I believe we should show understanding and respect to the local customs but in return ask the same for our own culture / habits. If one follows maksview's list, it should work smoothly.

people bring this up all the time: going native . what is meant by that anyhow? ive been in israel since age 22, back to the states maybe four times, raised my kids here on kibbutz. im definately not too american anymore by any stretch of the imagination, and according to my very american parents. someone who lives an a foreign country for any leghthof time 'go native' . u pick up mannerisms, ways of thinking, doing, speaking dressing that u absorb w/o even paying attention to what u are doing until u go back to your original place of origin. especially if u are mostly living in the newer place and rarely going back to your old place. true, a westerner in asia sticks out more like a sore thumb, but frankly, if u were living in europe for 10 yrs u would pick up the habits and ways of whatever country u were living in at the moment. my ex first cousin has been living in switzerland for 20+ years and she is way more swiss then israeli, even her accent has apleasant frenchish lilt to it....

thais lving here 'go native' as well. they eat humous and pita, speak slang words from here, learn to shout and wave their hands during most normal conversations, etc. they've 'gone native'. cant see why going native is bad when in isaan .

especially if u mostly live in your small village. better to get along with all of them then to maintain 'distance and differences ' so u can keep up european appearance for people that u will rarely see .

bina

israel

With all due respect Bina, you can't compare your situation with foreigners living in Isaan. When you moved to Israel, did you give up your culture and your religion ?

You may eat different food and dress differently but your core values stay the same, am I right ?

[bina]

With all due respect Bina, you can't compare your situation with foreigners living in Isaan. When you moved to Israel, did you give up your culture and your religion ?

You may eat different food and dress differently but your core values stay the same, am I right ?

core values changed alot!!!!!!!!!!!!! still jewish by birth, buddhist by choice (before i had thai husband) but definately more right wing then left, more aggressive and less polite, less pedantic and more 'do with what u have', less follow the rules.... trust me, im very israeli compared to my american family who i think are very 'follow rules' 'hysterical' about diseases and dirt and health... plus, while i was raised mostly pacifistic (i went to a quaker high school ), my kids are in the army, and i am very glad. (aprt from the obvious whish that that would be no wars, no death etc. ) ; in the states i was the farthest thing from patriotic. also, values do change. family closeness is much more stressed here, parents spend less time 'educating' their kids and more time do ing for the kids, spoiling them as my mother puts it; im very different then i was in the states. of course i was always straight forward and honest, and a hard worker, calm jai yen person, but what was important there isnt here. the israeli values towards their pets are much more thai then american (why spend money on a dog, once a year rabies, thats it... let them roam around, etc); whatch our kigs in resteraunts, much more thai then american (standing on furniture, racing around, whatever); sales people here are aggressive and not polite and thats part of our life, so we act the same way. one of the few things that stayed with me is that i am very 'service' oriented which is why at our kibbutz hotel i got the job of dealing with foreign convention groups. my americanisms stayed. other then that, yes, i am totally 'native'. im less concerned with safety issues in a daily basis although surprisingly i was of the first woman safety and hygiene coordinators 10 years ago, it was easier for me to except the limitations and regulations then it was for the 'natives' (mostly men btw).

also, being an ex anthropologist studies major, ive learned one improtant rule: dont try to change those around u because u feel its better, when its a different culture then yours. at one point on our kibbutz we hada war with the natives when they felt we wre 'americanizing' everything. the word 'found america' is still used sardonically when someone tries to change something 'like in america' and the anser is inevetably 'this is not america. u dont like, go home.'... sound familiar.

i find myself occasionally saying similar to husband dear: when he says 'whats the problem doing like this, in thailand everyone does this. and i have to say 'this is not thailand, u dont like, i'llget u a ticket/....

bina

israel

and since living with a issan thai husband, our house has become somewhat thai and less israeli, enough that people feel it when they come to visit.