Small Scale Solar, Stand Alone In 2010

[canopy]

I need just a kilowatt hour, or could make do with even less per day. Light load, off grid to make a 220V outlet.Does anyone sell a complete, practical system for this? Or is there a DIY system anyone has found to be good? Web links aren't turning up much that is tangible and current.

[InterestedObserver]

What do you want to use off-grid? One kWh @ 220 volts is not very much load, amperage wise. You're talking about a light bulb sized load.

[bankruatsteve]

Well, that's a LOT more than a light bulb. But, if you just need for a small amount of time maybe look into the UPS systems (like for computers)? Or some other kind of battery system? Assuming you can charge on grid.

Edited September 16, 2010 by bankruatsteve

[canopy]

This is not for powering a house, but just powering surveillance equipment. There is no grid possibility there, hence the stand alone requirement.

[katabeachbum]

This is not for powering a house, but just powering surveillance equipment. There is no grid possibility there, hence the stand alone requirement.

so why go 220 volt? find the required voltage for each of the cctv items(usually 9-48 volt), and choose the highest voltage as solar and battery package. then trafos if some items require lower voltage. much power is lost from 12/24/48 volt solarpanels - to 220 volt inverter - to appliance trafos

Thai government has handed out solar/battery packages out in the bushes, to people without 220v supply. I believe they use 48 volt system (4x 12v batteries) with inverter to run 220 volt bulbs, tv and fridge. On occasions they need to bring batteries to charge-shops, since in rainy season solar doesnt manage to fill up.

[InterestedObserver]

Well, that's a LOT more than a light bulb. But, if you just need for a small amount of time maybe look into the UPS systems (like for computers)? Or some other kind of battery system? Assuming you can charge on grid.

100 watt light bulb X 10 hour = 1000 Wh = 1 kWh or 50 watt light bulb X 24 hours = 1200 Wh = 1.2 kWh.

[howto]

While not knowing the extent of "surveillance equipment" you deem necessary

may I suggest an Automotive Car Alarm system.

Many advantages and perhaps few dis-advantages.

Car alarms are 12v, and have a very low power requirement.

Ones I've seen have

- 4~8 inputs for "normally open" passive contact sensors.

- a R-F keyring disable

- a real key switch to disable

- common "normally open" magnetic contact switches can be used

- uses a pizeo audible alarm

- can adjust the duration of the alarm

Solar requirement are reduced, one needs 13.5~14 volts

and 0.5~1.0 amps to keep a battery charged.

I suggest a large "gel" battery as opposed to a lead acid car battery

for a much longer life.

One can also use the passive "close on rise" heat detectors for fire.

Perhaps a IR motion detector can be used?

I recall that some of the better alarms can dial a phone number?

One can ask others over in the "Motor Forum" concerning alarms.

One can likely use a Household Alarm as they have a battery backup.

Which infers they have an inverter circuit.

More expensive and higher electric requirements (think solar).

Don't see where it buys you anything.

Be aware that a close by lightning strike can damage any alarm

due to EMP, the wires to the sensors act as an antenna.

Since you have a 12v system consider

lights, very small fluorescents, at most local hardware shops they have converters, it is what the street vendors use on their mobile stalls. LED may be an option, there is a thread in this forum concerning their use.

Lights are usually a deterrent.

Hope it helps.

Edited September 17, 2010 by howto

[howto]

delete dup post

Edited September 17, 2010 by howto

[canopy]

Sigh. Folks, try to keep this on topic. What I need is described in a few short lines in the first post. The only response of any applicability at all to my request is the government hand outs of solar systems. If this program still exists, how would one go about getting in the queue?

So let's get this steered back on subject. I am looking for a practical solar setup to serve the modest needs described in the first post. Can anyone suggest such a system?

Edited September 17, 2010 by canopy

[InterestedObserver]

Something like this: Off-Grid

[katabeachbum]

Sigh. Folks, try to keep this on topic. What I need is described in a few short lines in the first post. The only response of any applicability at all to my request is the government hand outs of solar systems. If this program still exists, how would one go about getting in the queue?

So let's get this steered back on subject. I am looking for a practical solar setup to serve the modest needs described in the first post. Can anyone suggest such a system?

Your local PEA, ask for electric supply, if your to far from supply, they provide you with solar and batteries, 12 Volt as I understand. Inverter not included. Different PEA, different packages

I believe it wont be 220 Volt AC/50Hz, so you can sigh again when posters try to help youB)

[EvilDrSomkid]

Something like this: Off-Grid

Thanks for that link. I am thinking about getting something like this too.

Any idea how much they ask for these packages, ex install?

Like the 4kWp system?

[gregb]

There are quite literally hundreds of dealers throughout Thailand who can set you up with something like this.

A few questions though:

How many days without sunshine do you need to be able to handle? This will determine the size of the system you need. As a very general rule, you asked for 1 kWh. Since there is about 4 hours of peak sun equivalent in Thailand on any given day, and a battery backed system with inverter gets about 60% efficiency, you need a minimum of 250 watt/.6 or around 416 watts of panels and associated circuitry to allow for 1 kWh per day.

Now, assume this is an important application (surveillance usually is) so you want to be able to withstand at least 5 days of torrential rain with very little sun. If this was my application, I would size my system for 2 kW in order to guarantee 1 kWh average under worst case conditions. You may decide this is overkill and make due with less.

In Thailand, solar is expensive, because people haven't yet figured out that the Chinese are only charging $1/watt now for panels. The Thai companies still think they can charge 200 baht/watt for the panels alone. A full up with charge controller, inverter, and batteries is around 500 - 700 baht per watt.

So, you should budget between 100,000 - 140,000 for the 2kW system mentioned above. If you can accept the system going down whenever it rains, you may be able to cut this figure back to as little 30,000 baht for a 500 watt system.

These are all just budgetary figures. Actual prices may be slightly above or below this, but this should give you some idea. As for finding vendors, simply go to Google, type

solar panel site:.th

and have at it. There are 12,000 hits. (Solartron had some good info, but I found dozens of vendors in the first few pages alone) Contact any of them who look like vendors and tell them you want a quote on a 2 kW, (or 1 kW, or 500 watt) off grid system with inverter and batteries and let them quote it.

And once you decide who you are going with, don't forget to report back here with the price and the level of service you received. I'll be very interested to hear if they've lowered their prices since I investigated something similar last year.

Edited September 20, 2010 by gregb

[JimShortz]

Well, that's a LOT more than a light bulb. But, if you just need for a small amount of time maybe look into the UPS systems (like for computers)? Or some other kind of battery system? Assuming you can charge on grid.

100 watt light bulb X 10 hour = 1000 Wh = 1 kWh or 50 watt light bulb X 24 hours = 1200 Wh = 1.2 kWh.

Who uses 100watt bulbs anymore? I think my highest (energy saving type) wattage bulb is about 15 watts. Even a 4 foot fluorescent tube only consumes about 40 watts...

[bankruatsteve]

Yah - OK. Anyway... the point that I missed (thinking the OP wanted 1Kw for 1 hour/day) was correctly summarized by "Interested Observer" in that it's about a light bulb in terms of energy over the period of a day. So, it doesn't matter what kind of light bulb - it's just the energy required is low and the OP wants something off grid - like solar. Maybe wind?

[canopy]

Thanks for the leads. I will follow up what I found:

1. Annex Power. The startup cost of their small system is over 100,000 baht. Operating expenses are minimum (assuming nothing ever breaks) another 25000 every couple years for replacement batteries.

2. PEA. I contacted them and they said they don't offer solar cells in Phetchabun province.

3. Wind. I looked briefly at this and noted a lot of issues with it compared to solar, cost being a major one.

So is that a wrap or is there any chance of finding a cost effective possibility?

[katabeachbum]

Thanks for the leads. I will follow up what I found:

1. Annex Power. The startup cost of their small system is over 100,000 baht. Operating expenses are minimum (assuming nothing ever breaks) another 25000 every couple years for replacement batteries.

2. PEA. I contacted them and they said they don't offer solar cells in Phetchabun province.

3. Wind. I looked briefly at this and noted a lot of issues with it compared to solar, cost being a major one.

So is that a wrap or is there any chance of finding a cost effective possibility?

as long as you need to run your surveillance in 220V AC, I guess you have found the price

When I suggested supplying your system with DC 12-48 Volt you sighed. Perhaps now its time to consider? Batteries 8k baht for 2-3 days with no sunshine (4x 110Ah 12V), lifetime 2-3 years at this price