Entry/exit With Dual Passport (msia/thai)

[seewhy]

My son (6 months old) is a dual citizen of Malaysia and Thailand. Father is Malaysian and mother is Thai. He also holds Malaysian and Thai passport. He was born in Thailand and is currently based in Thailand. We had one previous trip to Malaysia on the Thai passport (all the way).

The problem is.... as far as I am aware, Malaysia and Thailand both do not accept dual citizens/passports. Perhaps, more so Malaysia than Thailand. Obviously, I would prefer my kid to have the option for himself later in life.

We are planning to return back to Malaysia and are unsure how to enter Malaysia for the kid.

We are thinking of the following options:

1. Exit Thailand with Msian passport (issued in Thailand) (which does not have residency rights in Thailand) and get fine for overstaying (max of BHT20,000, I understand) and enter Malaysia on Malaysian passport.

Qn 1: Will Msia immigration check and find out that my kid had previously entered on a Thai passport and ask him to renounce (at 6 months!).

Qn 2: Will the Thai immigration find out that he had previously travelled on a Thai passport and ask him to renounce a passport?

2. Exit Thailand with Thai passport (which should be ok) and enter Malaysia with Malaysian passport.

This could be an issue as his Malaysian passport is totally clean and does not have a Thai exit stamp.

Qn 1: Could this lead to questions of where the kid came from. The Malaysian immigration could be sort of anal and ask all sort of questions?

Qn 2: Can I plead that perhaps the Thai immigration overlooked to stamp his passport (I know this sounds lame).

3. Exit Thailand with Thai passport and enter with Thai passport. In which case, my kid would not have residency rights in Malaysia?

4. Take the boat (with no entry/exit stamp required!) across the river at Golok!

I've been trying to figure out this question for the last few months and all help appreciated. Obviously, I'm trying to keep the dual citizenship/passport for him if it is possible without everyone getting into trouble!

If anyone has ideas, please share with me!

[ying-yang]

rules are ment to be broken, let your son keep the dual PP nobody have to know about it, it will benifit him later down the line, when he enter Malay use Malay PP, and when he enter Thai use Thai, same thing for exit, don't mix match.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thailand permits dual citizenship, Malaysia does not. You don't say which country you actually do reside in, nor how long the visits to the other country are for.

[fox]

Hi seewhy,

I am answering you from the Malaysian side. I will be away for a week or so...... and

therefore I won't be able to response after this posting.

1. Malaysia does not permit dual citizenship.

2. Malaysian immigration is very strict..... their computers are " on-line " to all border checkpoints,

Immigration Departments, and to other Government agencies.

3. They keep track of all passports ( Malaysian passports in particular ) coming in and going out in their on-line computers.

If, I say again, if they do find " discrepancies " in his passport/passports..... then more problems may arise..... now or in

the near future. Best you go to the Malaysian Embassy or consulate for advice.

Good luck. Choke di nah, krap.

[WilliamIV]

Get your child a Thai ID Card - which will entitle

him to a Thai Passport in Future.

Then be prepared to give up his current Thai Passport.

Maybe you can get any Visa / entry stamp in the Thai Passport

transferred to the Malaysia Passport at Thai Immigration...

Or leave Thailand on Thai Passport & enter Malaysia

on Malay passport - any problems re-exit stamps just produce

the Thai Passport and be ready to surrender it.

Any Banal questions - he had Thai Passport because you were living in Thailand

You have now come to live in Malaysia - hence the Malay passport.

Good Luck

Bill

[george]

There is no overstay charge in Thailand for kids under 12 years old. One option: Just keep him overstayed in Thailand on his Malaysian passport.

[seewhy]

Thank you for all the responses.

To Dr., I took my kid on his Thai passport in Nov to Kuala Lumpur for 12 days to visit his grandparents. There were no problems at all then. He also has the non-smart card malaysian passport (because issued in Malaysian Embassy in Bangkok) which is probably more low-tech than the Malaysian issued passports (which are now all machine readable with a smart card inside).

We are presently residents of Thailand (including him, since birth) and are thinking of moving back to Malaysia .... and this is causing me headaches trying to make him legit again without losing either passports/citizenships. I can confirm that the Malaysian side is probably semi-paranoid about issues like this but trying to figure how to sort it out.

We called the Malaysia Consulate in Hong Kong on a 'scenario' basis and it was quite clear that they will confiscate one of the passports immediately. Probably have to renounce a citizenship straight away too!

Appreciate if anyone has anymore thoughts!

[fox]

Hi Seewhy,

Just arrived back home from outstation. Are you a Malaysian Chinese ?

I am a Malaysian Chinese, and I understand your problems.

As a Malaysian yourself..... I presume you should know that our citizenship laws

are very, I repeat the word very strict..... no compromise on citizenship and

passport matters. I understand that in Thailand..... they are more flexible,

more understanding and more accomodating...... if your son is born in Thailand,

and more so if his mother is a Thai national. Assuming that he gives up his Thai passport

now, he will still have the chance to get back a Thai passport in the near future.

If he gives up his Malaysian passport now..... it will be " mission impossible " to get one

in the near future, or even none at all. As a Malaysian yourself, you should know what I

am talking about. Once you renounce your citizenship..... there is no turning back. They will

never compromise on ctizenship/passport matters. I hope you will understand what I am trying to tell you.

Best options is to maintian his Malaysian citizenship and Malaysian passport. When he reaches the

age of 18 years...... then he is in a better position to decide whether he wants to be a Khon Thai or a Malaysian.

You can E-mail me if you want to. Good luck.

Mai mee pan har ! Choke di nah, krap !

[samran]

As malaysia considers dual citizenship illegal you may consider only using the malaysian passport for him to travel on.

By all means keep his Thai ID and house registration papers in order and up to date, just don't tell the Malaysians about it.

In terms of leaving the country, as he is only 6 months old, he should leave Thailand on his clean malaysian passport for the "first" time. As he is so young, no one will expect that he has left Thailand before. It will appear to immigration authorities that he is simply a foreign national child leaving thailand for the first time, which is not unusual as many foreign national children are born in Thailand these days. You should ask the immigration authorities at Suan Plu what the process is to leave the country for a foreign national child born here. Just make sure you don't tell them that he is also a Thai citizen!!

As your child doesn't yet need to work here he should re-enter thailand on his malaysian passport with the appropriate non-immigrant visa for a child of a Thai citizen and stay here on that, if you come back to live.

I am assuming when he needs to go to school at a Thai local school etc, his Thai registration papers (ie not passport) will be enough to convince local authorities that he is Thai citizen so that he gets cheap/free education.

As long as you keep the Malaysian authorities happy in keeping them thinking that he is exculsively a Malaysian citizen, but quietly maintaining his Thai papers your son should be able to "unofficially" keep his dual citizenship status.

The last thing you want happening is the Malaysian authorities requiring that your son provide a declaration and evidence that he has relinquished his Thai citizenship in order to keep his Malaysian citizenship due to inconsistent entry and exit stamps in his malaysian passport.

[seewhy]

Thank you for your long post.

From your input and other board members, I'm inclined to use his Msian passport all the way and take a risk that the computer does not track that he had travelled on a Thai passport.

I had spoken to a Msian immigration officer at KLIA and they said that they'd keep one eye close. However if they see two passports in front of them (assuming that one is a Msian passport), at least one of them would be immediately confiscated (whic is similar to the Msian consulate in HK).

You are right about the inconsistency of stamps, Msian officials could get quite fussy with that. I'd just like to keep this option open for my kid to decide when he grows up.

Thank you guy for all your input.

[easymoney]

Loo k this a asean thing no passports at border Mama or you which ever is Malay and with fathers or wife Thai side notorized signature card if seperate or if together nothing . You are complicating a non issue. Now let me say this is ground transport not air.

[samran]

easymoney,

dunno what you are actually referring to, but if you are talking about the proposed common visa arrangements between thailand and malaysia, it is not in place yet, and in my opinion, it won't happen for a while. Manned borders are going to be around ASEAN for quite a while, unlike in the EU.

What many nationals of Thailand and Malaysia do at land borders is get border passes using their national ID cards. This allows them to cross the border into the next country. However it is hightly restrictive. The maximum you can cross for is 3 days and it is only for entry into the immediate province just across the border.

Cheers

samaran.

[fox]

Hi,

Ref: Border Pass. (Malaysia and Thailand)

The applicant's ID cards (Malaysia or Thai), must show proof/address

that he/she is presently staying in the immediate province/states.

The maximun days allowed is seven days. They can drive their vehicles

in ..... a valid Motor Vehicle " Third Party " insurance is needed.

Malaysia/Thai driving licence is acceptable for both sides. For Thai

Vehicles going in to Malaysia..... an English alphabet (eg. ABC 123...)

must be printed on/besides their Thai registration numbers. Reason is

that the Malaysian authorities would not be able to read their Thai

alphabet. For border pass holders with vehicles..... seven days stay.

For Passport holders with vehicles ..... thirty days stay.

I have been driving in and out with my Malaysian border pass..... very often.

Mai mee pan har! Choke di nah, krap !

[dr_Pat_Pong]

easymoney,

dunno what you are actually referring to, but if you are talking about the proposed common visa arrangements between thailand and malaysia, it is not in place yet, and in my opinion, it won't happen for a while. Manned borders are going to be around ASEAN for quite a while, unlike in the EU.

What many nationals of Thailand and Malaysia do at land borders is get border passes using their national ID cards. This allows them to cross the border into the next country. However it is hightly restrictive. The maximum you can cross for is 3 days and it is only for entry into the immediate province just across the border.

Cheers

samaran.

The countries proposed DO NOT include Malaysia from Thailand

[samran]

really? I sure that I read something at some stage about a Schengen type visa

recently there was some talk about common tourist arrangements with some neighbouring Indo-china countries, but I am sure that before this I read (probably hallucinating ;-) hehe ) Thaksin mentioned the idea to Malaysia and Singapore. Understandable, they both declined.

[fox]

Yes, Samran, you are right.... Malaysia declined the idea.

The reason is obvious..... In Malaysia, there are many many illegal

immigrants, especially Indonesians..... they come in by boats

undecteded. In top of that, there are many tourists from Asian

countries who have overstayed their visas, and are also working

illegally there. Every now and then we read in the papers..... the

authorities are going after them. Not too long ago, they have to

charter

a boat to send them back. Some young girls on tourist visa from China,

Thailand and East European countries, and so on were caught, convicted and

sent to jail for overstaying and working illegally in " vice "

activities. Therefore the Malaysian government is very cautious....

granting visas on a case by case policy to certain countries. Some

countries given 30 days on arrival. Some only 14 or 16 days on arrival and

some ..... visa has to be applied in the Malaysian Embassy/counsulate

before coming over there.

Therefore the idea of having a single visa for Asean countries is not

feasible.