Thai Immigration Introduces Jail Time For Overstayers

[witsawakorn]

Hello!

what whould happen,when someone,short before the visa is runing out and the person have to go to hospital?

same then normal overstaying,or how then will be the diffrence in the visa law?

who have the be informed first?

when it should not posible after a acsident or whatevver-?

is a blacklist forever,or can also be removed,after a couple of years?

on internet i read some reports,that planing in the future,a visa for all countrys,like here in eu!

When I was in hospital here the hospital arranged visa extensions for me no hassle at all for me

Edited September 24, 2010 by witsawakorn

[houlicha]

leave the country after filling in a few forms and handing over the wedge.

say what? The old procedure was to just give you a wedgie?

[cup-O-coffee]

Story translation:

Please step this way to the interrogation room.

Do you have a way to get this much more? If you can get this much more, we will not arrest you.

What? Yes, we have an ATM in the hallway, next to the captain's office.

I do not think there are that many cases that fit into the category, but as a former poster said, "I think this is a neat little earner."

[borisloosebrain]

The same mentality kept Nelson Mandela in jail for years - breaking a law.

I do not remember Nelson Mandela overstaying his Thai Visa.

Please try and keep up.

You never mentioned the word visa in your first post - just 'break the law suffer the consequences'

I was bringing it down to your simplistic level and thoughtless level

Sure one should not not break the law However sometimes there are extenuating circumstances beyond ones control and in many cases the consequences do not always suit the offense.

Once upon a time the Brits would transport their poor to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread - that same dumb punitive mentality is still alive and well on this forum.

You could perhaps try and keep up. Visa overstay is a victimless crime - not always intentional- if you think imprisoning people in an overcrowded filthy jail cell without exception for such an offense is fine then good for you.

There are kids in jail in Nonthaburi aged nine imprisoned for stealing candy -their families are too poor to bail them out -but hey they broke the law - tough luck eh ! Let them suffer the consequences as you say.

[bangkokrick]

The same mentality kept Nelson Mandela in jail for years - breaking a law.

I do not remember Nelson Mandela overstaying his Thai Visa.

Please try and keep up.

You never mentioned the word visa in your first post - just 'break the law suffer the consequences'

I was bringing it down to your simplistic level and thoughtless level

Sure one should not not break the law However sometimes there are extenuating circumstances beyond ones control and in many cases the consequences do not always suit the offense.

Once upon a time the Brits would transport their poor to Australia for stealing a loaf of bread - that same dumb punitive mentality is still alive and well on this forum.

You could perhaps try and keep up. Visa overstay is a victimless crime - not always intentional- if you think imprisoning people in an overcrowded filthy jail cell without exception for such an offense is fine then good for you.

There are kids in jail in Nonthaburi aged nine imprisoned for stealing candy -their families are too poor to bail them out -but hey they broke the law - tough luck eh ! Let them suffer the consequences as you say.

You let me down. I thought that you're 23rd post might actually have something to do with the topic at hand. Enjoy you're overstay and I look forward to post 24.

Rick

[borisloosebrain]

Think outside the box Rick - NM is just an example some laws have conequences that are way beyond the damage caused by the 'crime'

Imprisonment in a THAI jail in many cases would fit that category- a guy died in the immigration centre a while back because he didn't recieve medical attention.

Under Eclipses regime that would be just a consequence he had to suffer due to his breaking of the law by overstaying his visa. As ridiculous and unjustified as NMs imprisonment.

[atyclb]

I have an education visa. 90 days was up on a monday however monday is one of my assigned study days. Immigration is closed sat/sun. I went on tuesday, one day after with a letter from school. They did not care.

In addition, at the end of my all day adventure at chaeng wattana upon receiving my passport I found my change was not given to me. Change was 100 baht; 1900 visa extend + 500 overstay =2400, paid with 2500. The lady that gave me my passport did walk away rather fast.

Very very disheartening to experience this lack of integrity and blatant attempt hoping I would not notice and walk away, after which time it would be too late to say anything. Just for 100 baht makes me not hold these people with much esteem.

Would it not be better to simply charge in advance for 4 extensions on an ED visa instead of giving them more work and causing people that are supposed to be at school to lose an entire day.

I consider myself objective and open minded but my perception of much of the immigration dept rules are designed for self enrichment.

So why not go on a Friday? It's only 3 days before. It is not Immigrations fault/problem that you are busy on Monday when you have to report.

Why do so many people think that rules need to be bent for them.

The law is the law.

So many people get all high and mighty, I bring money into this country blah blah blah. Yes you probably do, but so what. It doesn't mean your entitled to stay. We're visitors and should respect the laws that govern this country. Yes corruption exists and how many people benefit from it and support the existance of corruption! Doing the right thing will mean you don't have to participate in it and maybe this will help Thailand to move away from this path.

How do you feel about those coming from China etc to yoru hoem country (usually Australia, UK and USA) with a TON of money, get into University, stay there etc because they have the cash? Most don't think its right, yet people believe in Thailand everything should be different and they should be granted 'special' privilages because they are injecting money into Australia. What such an elitest attitude.

Same s*** diff smell. Foreigners bring in a lot of money to many countries, through business investment tourism etc. It is not just Thailand. Even Australia has around 4% of income from tourism. 1/25th of our money comes from overseas visitors.

Sure there can be often extenuating circumstances that may result in you overstaying, but half of the posts here act as if that is the norm. If it is, it shouldn't be, it should be the exception and thats the problem. If people were doing the right thing, this wouldn't be an issue. But clearly so many don't and then get ina s*** because Thailand wants to start moving in the right direction. Yes Thailands immigration and Visa laws may be difficult/hard to get for long term. But honestly they aren't any more difficult and time consuming then getting ones/moving to Australia. Thailand has a huge population and needs the infastructure to support it. It can't afford to be 'willy nilly' about immigration policy like it has been. Why do you think so many other countries curb numbers of migrants. Its often about infastructure among other things.

Maybe so many of you have forgotten that there is often more to it than just trying to get money out of foreigners, because you've been out of your home country for so long or you really believe that things are so black and white.

My argument is based on having an Education visa and not being able to see immigration on Monday due to precisely that, education. As they have discretionary powers one might reasonably think they could see a valid reason.

USA has many non US students and many are not wealthy. They do not need to report to immigration every 90 days and pay another fee on top of the student visa they already paid for.

My post mentioned nothing about me spending money in Thailand.

I see nothing wrong with non-national students attending university in USA without regard to their national origin. Chinese study and work hard and are successful in every country they go. I see nothing wrong with that nor am I resentful.

Have you any opinions/thoughts on them trying to steal my 100 baht change?? Am I am elitist for wanting my change?

Do you think those of us that don't focus our lives around 10 beers and a go go bar are elitists? (injected for fun)

If the corruption were eliminated, then perhaps the entertainment venues would cease to exist and consequently perhaps the TV forum?

[blix99]

Oh finally a good news! i was so concerned about going out at night time (but even during the day for that matter), knowing that i might eventually came across one of the very feared "overstayers" , i can cope with almost any sort of issues or dangers, but having to deal with a man/woman which is not a "quality tourist" is already bad enough, leave alone someone which break this vital law! is just too much, nevermind the killers, scammers, abusers,cheaters,thiefs around us, the constant chronic break of safety standards and human rights, etc.., go and get the overstayers that's the real crime in this country, the main priority for the resolution of all major problems affecting the country for sure, thank you amazing Thailand!

What prime idiocy. The Immigration Police have their own very narrow mandate and a separate budget from the other branches of law enforcement in Thailand, it's not a zero sum game by any means. It's a shame so many people lack the intellectual rigor that would keep them from conflating such a hodgepodge of unrelated issues.

Thank you for putting the quoted drivel in perspective---Thai immigration has long needed to enact such enforcement. Cheers.

[bangkokrick]

Think outside the box Rick - NM is just an example some laws have conequences that are way beyond the damage caused by the 'crime'

Imprisonment in a THAI jail in many cases would fit that category- a guy died in the immigration centre a while back because he didn't recieve medical attention.

Under Eclipses regime that would be just a consequence he had to suffer due to his breaking of the law by overstaying his visa. As ridiculous and unjustified as NMs imprisonment.

Don't know what makes you think that I am living in a box? The fact is Thailand has immigration control and this is being broken by certain individuals and they are obviously getting pissed off with this. Lets take this to the end conclusion and suppose that no one applies for a visa in Thailand and we all over stay. Why the hel_l not, it costs me and many others much more than the 20K pay back at the airport to stay here. Where would the immigration authorities be then? Rules are rules and I think that Thai rules are pretty lax compared to 1st world countries. Try to do the same over stay in the US or UK and see what happens. The Thai's are not being unreasonable here in my opinion.

NM was on terrorist charges and jailed on Robin island for his sins. He was no angel.

Cheers, Rick

[Hardie]

Hello!

what whould happen,when someone,short before the visa is runing out and the person have to go to hospital?

same then normal overstaying,or how then will be the diffrence in the visa law?

who have the be informed first?

when it should not posible after a acsident or whatevver-?

Not sure about what would happen in the case of a forced long-term overstay, such as being hospitalised for a few weeks(/months) past your visa entry expiry. I suspect you would be subject to the normal overstay rules and end up with a respective fine (although I doubt you'd be detained as it was unavoidable on your part). I doubt it would be covered by your health insurance!

About a week before I had to leave once, I lost my passport. By the time I'd got a new one and had my visa retrospectively stamped in it, I was a day or so on overstay. The immigration guys in Bangkok were quite understanding, but (apparently) couldn't stamp me back in to give me enough time to do my border run. So I was effectively a fugitive for a couple of days, while I made my way to the border as I had originally planned. On arrival, I had no issues and paid a small overstay fine if I recall.

One other time, there was a mis-understanding on our part about our son's passport, so whilst my wife and I had technically checked out of Thailand at the airport (myself a few days before my visa entry was due to expire), our son couldn't be stamped out without a Thai passport. We had mistakenly assumed that his UK passport would suffice, but it had no entry stamp because he arrived as a baby with a 'CI' certificate of identity!). So we had to be checked back in to Thailand for a few days to go get his passport arranged. That time I left on one day of overstay, so didn't have to pay a fine.

is a blacklist forever,or can also be removed,after a couple of years?

I have heard of people who have been un-blacklisted, although I can't be sure if or how much lubrication was involved.

on internet i read some reports,that planing in the future,a visa for all countrys,like here in eu!

If you've got relevant URLs, post them please. I suspect it's just a pipe dream, given how many little 'industries' in SE Asia would suffer if it were so.

A visa for all countries? Smile on

re: bed-ridden, you need to have someone take your PP, hospital note and a picture to the Immi office BEFORE you overstay... worked for me a few years ago in Mae Sai at least...

[rametindallas]

Thai Immigration officers are loving this! This will allow them to extort money from foreigners upon their departure. Lets see, it should go something like this. "Sir, you overstay your Visa. Come with me." After they take you in the office. The negotiations start. "Since you are here over 21 days past your Visa. We must arrest you and take you to jail." Of course, the affected person will want to avoid this at any cost, so then, when the affected party asks what they can do to avoid going to jail? The answer will always be the same. How much you can give the Immigration officer that nabbed you. $$$ and Thai corruption go hand in hand... Just open the door for them to do as they please.

It should not be up to the officer that catches the overstayer. It should be cut and dry for each offense. They should have exactly the same penalty for each offender depending on the length of their overstay, rather then leaving it up to the officer that detains the person. This is just an open door for CORRUPTION from Thailands Finest.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[DP25]

No surprise this turned out to be false. No way are they going to send people to jail for overstay. Who in the world does that? Increased fines, temporary ban on entering the country, sure that might be possible (but doubtful on a temp ban) and happens elsewhere. Not a good start to the new news partnership.

[george]

Update:

Phuket Immigration: No change in visa overstay rules

Full story:

[mochafan]

Crazy!

They need to Boost tourism rather than discourage those who want to stay a bit longer.

Why not charge fines for those who Understay their visa.

A two week detention order for attempted early departure.

Instead of a jail term the "runner" pays for a hotel of his own choice so there is no cost to the Thai taxpayer.

Everybody Wins!!

Overstayers who can't be bothered with following things such as basic laws shouldn't be welcome.

why not? Really....Who are they hurting by overstaying?

When people buy pirated' CD's, DVD's and other miscellaneous fake items here in Thailand, should they not all be arrested along with the people selling such things? That would be the majority of Thais and foreigners now wouldn't it. THE LAW IS THE LAW

[inthepink]

It seems pretty obvious that the reason they are doing this is to generate money. If not then why under these new extreme rules can you still overstay up to 21 days? Do you think it's because 21 days will still cost you 20,000THB? This just looks like they are not happy that there are people getting more overstay days for their 20,000THB.

How will 21 days at ฿500 a day cost you ฿20,000 ??

[Penefattore]

What crap.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the next few long overstay farangs who attempt to exit the Kingdom.

The obvious consequence of this crap will be that every overstayer above 20 days will choose to overstay further, hoping one day the crap will be recalled.

You can bet no one will show up at the airport anymore.

[tngtng]

What crap.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the next few long overstay farangs who attempt to exit the Kingdom.

The obvious consequence of this crap will be that every overstayer above 20 days will choose to overstay further, hoping one day the crap will be recalled.

You can bet no one will show up at the airport anymore.

I agree that this will be the major overriding effect, but I'm sure there are plenty of overstayers who don't play around online a whole lot and will never get wind of it. Anyways, is there any confirmation on the reports of this story being a whole bunch of bull#$% anyways? Any comments from ThaiVisa on that?

[Basil B]

I do not condone breaking the law and find some peoples reasons for overstaying a very feeble.

I also believe that if there is a sign saying keep of the grass you do not expect the sign to give a reason why.

I also see a greatly over emphasised miss conception that over-stay'ers contribute fantastic fortunes to the Thai economy, more likely they are a drain on resources andearn undeclared incomes.

I could see reason why stiffer penalties should be applied, just reading many of the repliesit seems 20K is just peanuts to some, and that is the case with fines the punishment is proportional with the offenders ability to pay.

But I am still questioning the authenticity of this story, reading the article (posting#1) it seems credit goes to PATTAYA ONE with a link to their web site but has anybody found the story there?

"For full story see Edition 1 of PattayaOne out 1 October"

Also nameof source not quoted...

Also I can only find one link to this story on Goggle News and it is from THAINDIAN.COM http://www.thaindian..._100433822.html

And guess what? It is a "cut and paste" from here.

Nearly 450 posts in 17 hours "that is putting a big stick in a big cesspool and stirring ".

Edited September 24, 2010 by Basil B

[hm1973]

I just want to confirm that this story will be featured in Issue 1 of Pattaya One which is a new publication here in Pattaya available in print and online from 1st October. This story was not published by Pattaya One News on pattayaone.net. The full story is exclusive to the paper.

[Mikelom]

What a load of codswallop. There are few who intentionally overstay. Those who do should be punished, yes; but jail? Look back at European laws...... and you shall see, that in truth, jail wouldn't happen!

I know of 3 or 4 farang who recently had accidents and were hospitalised, and were worried sick ( et al + worried sick) because their visas ran out during their stays in hospital. Jail them? What planet is this?

Abusers of the systems should be punished. Laws start at HOME!!!!

-M.

[rametindallas]

Too many people here are noting or commenting or even complaining about "tea money" or corruption. So do something about it like stopping the overstaying and cutting off the sources of this corruption. It is the farang who overstays and not the systenm that feeds this corruption.

I consider 'tea' money as just an added service/shortcut to taking care of business. I am not required to use this option but may avail myself if I so choose. The end result for 'justice' is the same; I have been penalized for my wrongdoing and therefore justice is satisfied. I am penalized more if I pay 'tea' money but I get convenience in return. By accepting 'tea' money, the authorities are spreading-the-wealth that would otherwise never leave the wealthy person's pocket except maybe to pay a lawyer (a horrible waste of money).

On a personal note, during twenty stays in the Kingdom over the last eleven years, I have only overstayed once and that was because the Pol. Lt. on Ko Samui, who had my passport, was critically injured and the authorities couldn't find my passport. The 'tea' money had already been paid (BTW, I was guilty of 'being white' in a fender bender). A B500 (for two days) fee, $100 to change my flight, and $1,500 lost business. The alternative was optimistically projected to take somewhat less than 90 days.

[Maestro]

Immigration gets the overstay money and then shares it amongst the other immigration offices, but the majority will go to the Central Immigration office...

The immigration officer collecting the fine issues a receipt for it and in addition makes a note of it in the passport. Therefore, it is safe to assume that the money from these fines is properly accounted for and used in accordance with official rules and regulations.

...So if an Immigration officer at a Land border wants to take care of his own, he does not report it...

He would do so at great risk. The exit stamp he puts in your passport identifies him. If he did not record your overstay in your passport, collect the fine and account for it correctly he would put himself on record as either not having done his job properly, ie notice your overstay and deal with it, or having accepted a bribe for letting you off without the overstay fine. I have seen no posts by members of this having happened. Did it happen to you?

[MAJIC]

Story translation:

Please step this way to the interrogation room.

Do you have a way to get this much more? If you can get this much more, we will not arrest you.

What? Yes, we have an ATM in the hallway, next to the captain's office.

I do not think there are that many cases that fit into the category, but as a former poster said, "I think this is a neat little earner."

Absolutely correct.

For those that have been here many years,they will recall around 5 years ago? the overstay fine went up from 200 baht per day to 500 baht per day (150% increase)some of the newbie born again Pseudo Thais here will no doubt find a reason to justify that as well.

Thailand is not so Amazing,Mysterious,or Mystical, as is usually glossily portrayed in the forefront,simply put:

Just think MONEY! its the basic answer to every one of the problems in this fair Country.

But one will be seduced,by the Carnival,Charade for a long time before the truth eventually dawns on you, and then you will see the light.

Reminds me of the song by ABBA "Money Money Money"

Edited September 24, 2010 by MAJIC

[Mikelom]

Therefore, it is safe to assume that the money from these fines is properly accounted for and used in accordance with official rules and regulations.

I think you are experienced enough to know that assumptions, with regard to rules and regulations, don't quite adhere to the reality here.

I know of one British citizen whose PP was taken from him, because his double entry had been stamped twice on his first entry. He duly tried to go out and back in on time, but his PP was confiscated, and he was obliged to pay the 20,000Bht. He obliged, paid fully, was allowed back in............ WITHOUT his PP and told to get a new one from the British Embassy.

Assumption incorrect!

-M.

[Xircal]

Slightly off topic, but I just read on Wikitravel that Singapore imposes caning as a punishment for overstaying your visa by 90 days. So I suppose we should be thankful that Thai immigration doesn't use that kind of deterrent.

[DP25]

For those that have been here many years,they will recall around 5 years ago? the overstay fine went up from 200 baht per day to 500 baht per day (150% increase)some of the newbie born again Pseudo Thais here will no doubt find a reason to justify that as well.

Thailand is not so Amazing,Mysterious,or Mystical, as is usually glossily portrayed in the forefront,simply put:

Just think MONEY! its the basic answer to every one of the problems in this fair Country.

200 baht at the time was less than $5, no wonder they changed it, it was absolutely worthless in attempting to keep people legal. Note that the maximum fine did not change, it was 20,000 baht before and remained 20,000 baht after. If it was just about money the maximum would have been raised too, it was about trying to get people to keep up with their visas. At 200 baht per day no one cared about overstaying a month, but at 500 it adds up and people began to get off their butts when they realized how much they were paying every day in fines and comply with regulations.

[soporat]

I actually ended up with 1014 days overstay due to various reasons. After negotiations with Embassy and a very ameniable immigration department I left on good terms and have since returned. Why did they change the rules and not let us poor people just do a border bounce every month?

Looking forward to Christmas in Thailand.

[tijnebijn]

Slightly off topic, but I just read on Wikitravel that Singapore imposes caning as a punishment for overstaying your visa by 90 days. So I suppose we should be thankful that Thai immigration doesn't use that kind of deterrent.

Thats Bull ofcourse .

[HC82]

I think this is a publicity stunt by Pattaya One. Look at what the Phuket Chief had to say.

I suspect in the weeks ahead we'll hear from lots of people who overstayed X number of years or months and paid their 20,000 THB and left at the airport.

[Maestro]

But at least this should be posted in legit site like in MFA or in http://www.immigration.go.th

I cant understand why this has to be posted here even there is no clear document or public directive otherwise this is another thai gossip. hope this is not true.

The immigration law is, in fact, posted on the immigration website: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf. Read Section 81:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with

permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding

two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

If it ended here, everybody who overstays for any period of time would have to be brought to court. Fortunately, however, there is also this provision in the law:

Section 84 : In all offences under this Act, except the provisions of Section 62 Para.1 Section 63 , 64, 71

and 82 Para.2. The settlement Commission ,consisting of the Police Department’s Director General or

Representative, the Public Prosecution Department’s Director General or Representative, and the

Immigration Division’s Commander or Representative, as the, members shall have the authority to assign

duty of settlement to the Inquiry Official or the competent official by fixing a settlement rule or any

conditions as the Settlement Commission my deem proper.

When the offender has paid the fine as stipulate, the case shall be deemed settled under the

Criminal Procedure Code.

It is on the basis of this section that the old "settlement rule" of allowing the immigration officers to collect a fine of 500 Baht per day, maximimum 20,000 Baht was established and the officers were given the authority to decide whether to have an overstayer arrested, detained and be brought to court. I believe this rule has not been published and therefore the full details are not known. The information in the original post of this topic obviously is a modification of these details and while the revised rules are not being published in an official organ such as the Government Gazette a spokesman for the Immigration Bureau has kindly given these details to an executive of ThaiVisa for the information of our members, so that they may not be caught unaware. From this I deduce that the Immigration Bureau is not too keen to have to arrest overstayers and would prefer that foreigners do not overstay at all and if they do, perhaps inadvertently, for a shorter period than 22 days.

Whether or not this new policy will get posted on the immigration website remains to be seen, but what temporary visitor to Thailand actually reads that site or even knows of it? Hardly any, I wager, unless he gets a link to it on ThaiVisa.

Edit: Contrary to what I assumed above, the enforcement rules have not been changed. See this post:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/400387-thai-immigration-introduces-jail-time-for-overstayers/page__view__findpost__p__3906870

Edited September 25, 2010 by Maestro
Added edit note about wrong information.