jucel Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Most ironic thing of all this is the fact many richer guys just pay 50000-70000 Bahts to certain agencies for "full service". Then they get their passports stamped in nearby countries and get one year visas without themselves even leaving Thailand. But poorer guys should go to jail, according to the law book moralists here...hypocrites. Yeah but the the thing is the richer guys are still bothering to jump through the hoops and get the paperwork done to make sure they are legal. If you're so skint you can't take care of visas then you need to go home asap and never come back. Thai immigration is right on the money with this one. By the looks of this thread they are shaking out the useless rabble quite well with this new policy change. i woudl pay 50-70 k if i knew the 'certain agencies' i didn't even know that was possible!! However, if you don't physically leave the country, won't it show up next time u go out when they scan your passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim73 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Yeah but the the thing is the richer guys are still bothering to jump through the hoops and get the paperwork done to make sure they are legal. By committing themselves an illegal act! Paying bribes to various officials via proxy, not to mention the illegality of giving passport to someone and creating a false journey in the passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucel Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Basically if you'd wanted to do things right then you'd have to endure taking your child on the trip. It's not exactly the end of civilization as we know it is it? Basically in life you do shit because you've got to do shit. I didn't want to put 400k Thai baht in a Thai bank when me and the wife were quite happy extending on her salary. But I did. I didn't want to got to my brother in laws funeral the day after my wedding when he died suddenly. But I did. There's a whole lot in life where, if we make excuses, we don't want to do. But we still do it. Because we have to. trust me i've had to put up with a lot of shit in the last 6 months re ex g/f 'debts'!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renbe Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) Oh finally a good news! i was so concerned about going out at night time (but even during the day for that matter), knowing that i might eventually came across one of the very feared "overstayers" , i can cope with almost any sort of issues or dangers, but having to deal with a man/woman which is not a "quality tourist" is already bad enough, leave alone someone which break this vital law! is just too much, nevermind the killers, scammers, abusers,cheaters,thiefs around us, the constant chronic break of safety standards and human rights, etc.., go and get the overstayers that's the real crime in this country, the main priority for the resolution of all major problems affecting the country for sure, thank you amazing Thailand! If you don't like it, leave it, but don't dump your frustrated misconceptions on the members of this forum who are not so stupid to overstay their visit to Thailand. Edited September 24, 2010 by Renbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eureka Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Section 81 uses a conjunction "OR", does this mean that it still depends to the Immigration officers if they'd fine you a Bt20,000, or imprison you, or both... OR THEY COULD ASK FOR MORE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO GET IMPRISONED?? The new law, as usual, is not concrete. It's really very sad that they always implement new rules that are vague and keep on changing. If they think this is a grave violation, they should use the conjunction "AND" instead.. which should be "a fine of 20,000 baht AND imprisonment". I think this would be more clear to us.. It means exactly what it says. You may receive a fine OR imprisonment OR both. The same terms are found in the Laws of many Western countries and it allows the Judge some additional scope when applying judgement. A first time offender will normally be offered the fine with imprisonment if unable to pay. A serial offender can receive both penalties. Remember that the American Constitution is not concrete either as it is contested and debated daily and they have had 200 years to clarify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renbe Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) How is anyone defending overstayers is beyond me and patently ridiculous. The 20,000 baht loophole has been around for awhile and abused by individuals who don't want to get or can't qualify for a proper visa and want to stay indefinitely. They are finally closing it up, after years, and are addressing the abuse. There are so many other options out there to get a legal visa there's no reason to do this sort of thing. I really doubt people complaining about this would appreciate illegals coming in, working and staying for nearly a year at a time in their own countries. Also ignorance of the law is never an excuse. Silly reasons like "I can't remember dates" or "I have a kid" is just total b.s. i take umbridge to your 'i have a kid' comments. I was left to look after a baby (and still am) on my own!! should i have taken my child on a 3 day round trip on some dodgy bus or train. i dont think so. i also have a dog who can't feed himself! i dont know any trustworthy people to leave my child and dog with for 2/3 days so i am left in an overstay situation. If you didn't have the means to take care of your kid maybe you shouldn't have had a kid to begin with. Also a kid doesn't give you carte blanche permission to break laws and use that as an excuse for everything. I suppose a guy who robs banks is doing it to feed his kids too..so what? excuse me!! i have the means to take care of my child!! i did not say that. I'm talking about somebody to look after them while i do my visa run or go to my home country. My situation is not about money, its about somebody to look after my child/dog while i am away!! understand?? would u leave ur child (if u have) with random people in a foreign country! This is the most stupid excuse I've heard in a long time : Can't obey the law because I can't find any trustworthy people and don't want to travel with a child on the train. Thousands of people travel with their babies on Thai public transport every day. If you can't cope, then go back to where you came from. Edited September 24, 2010 by Renbe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eureka Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoaker Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 A welcome move. Let us just hope they stick with it. now....lets wait for the "if it wasn't for me, Thailand would fall in a heap" replies. Nothing ever sticks in thailand!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouche Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 What crap. It will be interesting to see what happens to the next few long overstay farangs who attempt to exit the Kingdom. Wouaouw ! I just see I overtook 8 days already ! what's next ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcent Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 some here sound more like trained blood hounds and not emphatic civilians I recall the time when Dr. Lambertson, former US Ambassador (about 18 years ago when I remember right), went two times unannounced to the IDC and 2 weeks before his term finished to rebuke the Immigration. He threatened to do everything in his power to cut down any aid for Thailand. - Food for thoughts? So lets get to the core of all evil and take to heart of what counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermute Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Yeah but the the thing is the richer guys are still bothering to jump through the hoops and get the paperwork done to make sure they are legal. By committing themselves an illegal act! Paying bribes to various officials via proxy, not to mention the illegality of giving passport to someone and creating a false journey in the passport. Two wrongs don't make a right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim73 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. Smugs like you are a dime a dozen here in the Thai Visa. "IT IS THE LAW AND EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE!". Until something bad happens to themselves, they they cry uncle and demand immediate service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Most ironic thing of all this is the fact many richer guys just pay 50000-70000 Bahts to certain agencies for "full service". Then they get their passports stamped in nearby countries and get one year visas without themselves even leaving Thailand. But poorer guys should go to jail, according to the law book moralists here...hypocrites. And they are breaking the law also and immigration will take this much, much more serious when they find out. It won't be a simple case of paying a fine then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konini Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 If you are genuinly in hospital you won't have a problem as the hospital will inform immigration. What is "normal overstaying?" Is that like "normal burglary" or any other "normal" crime? Thanks for clarifying that - I thought that even the often incomprehensible Thai immigration laws would not be in a position to give discretion provided that they knew in advance of your visa expiry/border run/immigration report that you would be unable to comply due to hospitalisation or serious illness (with the necessary paperwork to support your claim). I also like your comparison of normal overstaying and normal burglary. A crime is a crime. I don't understand people overstaying by just one day - it's not as though you don't have enough notice of the day you have to leave by. And if you're sick or in hospital or there is some other compelling reason for you not to leave by that date, tell them. I can't see it being a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renbe Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 great analogy!! its not even about an 'inconvenience'. if u read the post properly u would know that already! its about trusting somebody to look after my child/dog. the operative word is trust. There are agencies with reputable trained professionals who can be hired out for things like this. Go look at who ambassador families or other people with high security needs hire for this. If you're paranoid you could use the same agencies even though it will be costly. thanks for the helpful advice. It looks like i might need to get a sitter for the baby and a separate sitter for the dog. I'm only a couple of months over at the moment so will heed your advice. I just have the horrible/nervous thought of leaving and not then not being able to come back! If, for reasons only known to you, you might be refused re-entry, then perhaps it is better to take the child with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Enough on the babysitting. Let's keep it civil and on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renbe Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. Smugs like you are a dime a dozen here in the Thai Visa. "IT IS THE LAW AND EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE!". Until something bad happens to themselves, they they cry uncle and demand immediate service. For me it seems that there are more "let's break all the rules, because we are foreigners and Thailand is a stupid corrupt criminal country anyway" people like you posting here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 42 days seems to be generous enough to exempt genuine cases of oversight or those who have been taken ill. Although Thai immigration is rather bureaucratic and the regulations change frequently, it is relatively easy for farangs to get the visas they want, if they meet very basic qualifications. While I think Thailand should make more effort to attract the type of retirees they want, as Malaysia does, and streamline the whole process of visas and work permits, I don't think see why they need to lower the bar any further or tolerate people who deliberately flout immigration laws. Actually, I am all for doing things on a reciprocal basis, as some countries do e.g. Thais can go to Russia without visas but Westerners need visas and get hassled by Russian embassies; Americans are made to get visas for Brazil but most Europeans go there visa free as do Thais; most farangs can buy land in Korea and Taiwan but Thais can't because of their childish attitude to land ownership in Thailand. On that basis Singaporean overstayers would need to be brutally caned and scarred for life and Thais would pay 10 pounds to visit the British Museum while most others go in free. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eureka Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 If they round up, the intention is to DEPORT ASAP. No need to round up people who are leaving as I repeat again -- they are DEPORTING THEMSELVES. Wake up, people. Do you think Thai people overseas would be squawking for the foreign countries they are in to lock up their OWN people who are in overstay legal trouble? Not in a million years. It's distasteful. Leave the barbaric policing and xenophobia to the Thais, they don't need any foreign help with this! That's not true. Illegals who are rounded up sometimes have to serve jail time on top of that before being deported. That's part of the penalty otherwise it's too easy to use the border as a revolving door. I am sure the specifics vary country by country. However, civilized countries do PAY for deportation. In this case, the Thai government is forcing these people who probably can't afford it to THROW AWAY expensive air tickets, and then later come up with big money for a new air ticket and additional fines. Money, money, money. Countries that do pay for the deportation will not allow that person back until all costs have been refunded to their government. Airline check your travel documents at check-in as any costs relating to lack of correct VISAs is charged back to them by the destination country. In many countries long term overstayers are immediately imprisioned to allow the authorities time to determine the situation fully. Sorry but ignorance of the Law is not an viable defense in Western countries so why should it be in Thailand? Please do not try to pidgeon hole me into one of your predetermined groups for the simple reason that I do not believe that this issue is one of THEM against US. It is the Law vs. Law Breakers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mca Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 42 days seems to be generous enough to exempt genuine cases of oversight or those who have been taken ill. I agree. If you can't get your house in order by then there's not much hope for you as a functioning human being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThailandGuy Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 I wonder are there that many people overstaying their visa? If so is there enough place in the thai jail system? And a good question i read above... what about the foreigners who are injured in a hospital or ill and due to that overstaying their visa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim73 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 For me it seems that there are more "let's break all the rules, because we are foreigners and Thailand is a stupid corrupt criminal country anyway" people like you posting here.... Of course the opposite of righteous smug here is the breaker of all rules. There is no middle ground. You are being hyperbolic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucel Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. it's way more complicated than that but i have had enough of replying to people who live in ivory towers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wintermute Posted September 24, 2010 Popular Post Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. it's way more complicated than that but i have had enough of replying to people who live in ivory towers! Who's living in an ivory tower? I abide by the laws and stay legal instead of trying to argue loopholes and to be treated like i'm special. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eureka Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. Smugs like you are a dime a dozen here in the Thai Visa. "IT IS THE LAW AND EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE!". Until something bad happens to themselves, they they cry uncle and demand immediate service. No mention of Law. No mention of "something bad" preventing travel. No mention of "demand for immediate service". Clarification of you post required. As the carer of the child does not work there is ample time to sort out what paperwork etc. needed. One problem sorted Money has been stated to be not a concern. Second problem sorted Medical condition and/or requirement not stated No problem here Parents travel with the children everyday by various means of transport No problem here either Please don't use the excuse that a child is preventing you from keeping your status updated as this only angers the many other parents out there who CAN and DO. Not smug, just grownup and not requiring parental coverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeral Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 THis is a classic example of how Thailand has no idea about the rule of law - it is simply another idea dreamt up by some blithering idiot whilst on the toilet - emerging with his shirt tucked into his underpants he wanders into a few offices trying to find the right one and then tells is "subordinates" to enact this - and then goes back to the golf course satisfied he has earned his year's salary. The aftermath is that immigration are left with another un workable situation which they have to change without the aforementioned nabob losing face - or heaven forbid , his job. PS - I also note wit h some amusement that this is one of the biggest thread for a long time - how come so many TV posters are SOOOO WORRIED about overstay???? Methinks they do protest to much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr lamai Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 During my years on Samui i have meet so many people who have mixed up or simply dont understand that the date stamped in their touristvisa from the Thai embassy have nothing to do how long they are entitled to stay in the Kingdom. I will seriously pity for those folks when they will be noticed when try leaving from their first!?!? long holiday in Land Of Smiles. Mr Lamai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkup2000 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Boohoo I feel so pity of myself because Thailand is actually implementing immigration laws in their own county. As a farang I should be able to do what ever I want here without consequences. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jucel Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 (edited) yeh right!! there are loads of those where i live!! you really are a self righteous piece of work! i have lived here 3 years and never had a problem before as had one year visas from uk. tourist visa means i need to go to laos, cambodia etc and that takes 3 days at least! Please do'nt tell me that you are not working and do not have money problems but are unable to travel with a child. Get your affairs in order and learn to do what other adults can do daily. Smugs like you are a dime a dozen here in the Thai Visa. "IT IS THE LAW AND EVERYTHING IS BLACK AND WHITE!". Until something bad happens to themselves, they they cry uncle and demand immediate service. No mention of Law. No mention of "something bad" preventing travel. No mention of "demand for immediate service". Clarification of you post required. As the carer of the child does not work there is ample time to sort out what paperwork etc. needed. One problem sorted Money has been stated to be not a concern. Second problem sorted Medical condition and/or requirement not stated No problem here Parents travel with the children everyday by various means of transport No problem here either Please don't use the excuse that a child is preventing you from keeping your status updated as this only angers the many other parents out there who CAN and DO. Not smug, just grownup and not requiring parental coverage. there are other issues but these are private and i do not wish to disclose/discuss on a public forum. i agree with the above statement but my situation is different. Edited September 24, 2010 by jucel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moskito Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Normally nothing wrong with it. There are rules in every country. I said "normally" because I had overstayed my 1 Year Visa once for 3 month here in Phuket. Because they doesnt give you 12month for the first time, they count from the last entry stamp to Thailand. Sure the immigration officer could have told me that when I visitid the immgration to show my face every 3 month, but why should he ? So 3 month later I had the bad awakening when I was asked to pay for 3 month overstay about 35000.- Baht....but the good thing he told me, is the maximum fine is 20 grand. I was not the only one on that day with this problem. There was another German and an English guy. Good money for the immigration, specially after they told me....no problem, you can go and dont pay yet, come back in a year or two and you still will pay the same 20k TiT I wich we had the same Visaregulations for foreigners in Europe, should solve some problems. :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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