Pigs 101 (A Start)

[CHRISTIANa9]

I don't think the big boys does it intentionally o bring down the prices of pigs. If there are more farmers, they sell more feed. Getting rid of the small guys won't help them much cos imports will coming in to depress prices if the prices are too high. This has been happening in Australia since imports were allowed to come it and it is only allowed to come it at the small goods manufacturer level. Imports are not allowed on the supermarket shelf yet. When it does that will be the end of pig industry in Australia.

BTW frozen pork are mostly non-prime cuts so you can say its been dumped at low prices.

Still checking on the FCR. Probably got my figures mixed up.

[DerkMR]

I use Zinc-oxide for piglets and chromium + selenium from 12 kg and up.

Reminds me of

(couldn't resist)

Bye,

Derk

[Khonwan]

I agree that these big producers did not engineer the situation back 6/7 years ago - I think Thaksin should bear the majority of the blame back then, albeit as an unintended consequence of poor planning. But they were certainly like men on a sinking ship throwing their women & children (their own business partners) off the lifeboats to save only themselves. Their actions made the situation much worse for the small producers. One thing is for sure though, business in Thailand is conducted on asymmetrical playing fields be it farming, construction, or any other field dominated by those in power here. Then again, for those that like a challenge, it is sheer heaven.

Revar, you appear to have a very good handle on the business of pig farming; my congratulations to you. I don’t know if you have sufficient land to crop but for anyone that does, and who already has a firm grasp on the business of pig farming, start growing your own feed as NeverSure says. I have a Thai book from over 10 years ago with recipes for livestock feed, including pig-feed. It is in Thai but I’d be happy to scan & post relevant pages if there is an interest. I’m sure you can also obtain recipes online but this book is specific to Thailand, i.e. the usage of common crops here. Heavy investment in equipment is not required: for my cattle-feed, I used a shredder and a concrete mixer (set at slow speed and horizontal with the opening sealed with a plastic sheet).

Rgds

Khonwan

[revar]

Hi konwan, unfrtunately we only have 11 rai, so growing our own feed is not an option. If I would have had enough land I would have gone into crops and not pigs. We choose pigs because you don't need much land for the pens.

Although pig-farming is my main income I tend to see it as a full-time hobby which I (try to) live from. If we would see it as work the ROI would be terrible, especially if you include labor.

regarding how I achieve our FCR

Because we have to live from it in a very compatTive market I can not share all our 'trade secrets' . Someone with more capital and the right nowledge setling in this area could put me out of business. I already have had local cp farmers adoping some of my methods. But it has a lot to do with time spend observing and individual care of pigs which includes bottle feeding and administrating supplements by spoonfeeding and injections. As IA once observed, we run an intensive care for pigs.

80% of our pigs do not receive supplements or medicines. But I do use over 30 different ones if necessary.

But piglets under 5 kg get milkpowder and under 10 get vitamins. thin piglets under 5 kg get another mix which name translates as fat pig (moo ouan).

On average medine/supplement costs are under 100thb/pig. For pigs with low body indexes vitamin b suplements are important as well.

We achieve our fcr with moo mau. these are piglets which are sold as sub-standard for lower prices because of thing like fluid filled ears, leg problems, general appearance etc.

Also these fCRs are calculated per pen bit do not onclude our hospital or 'recovered' pens. in these 2 FCRs are between 2.5 and 3.

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[Khonwan]

Thanks for sharing this, Revar; I appreciate that you cannot give up your edge in the market by revealing more. What you have shared is interesting. With that level of intensive care, I guess you keep the scale of operation small in terms of heads. I agree that FCR’s should exclude hospitalized pigs (I had a pig “hospital” – an older cattle-feedlot – some 50m or so from the main pens).

Rgds

Khonwan

[revar]

At the moment we have 85 pigs and are at full capacity. I have plans to expand to around 300 which the two of us can manage because only about 5-10% need realy 'intensive care' and we are still finding ways to make routine tasks easier and less time consuming. I have also started training two nephews to help us out on occasion who are eager to be fully employed if we expand.

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[IsaanAussie]

Hi,guys. I'm down to 12 pigs now with those due out within a week. The exception being old Cyril, might see if I can get the local vet interested in selling semen so I can keep him as a pet (don't tell the wife!) Looking forward to a break but must admit I miss them already.

Congratulations to everyone posting over the last week, some really interesting stuff. Good to see productivity issues getting air time as it is becoming more important daily.

My FCR at 2.6 has been deliberate as I have never kept pigs for fattening as a main activity. Most meat pigs we sell are at 70kg and past that we only keep for breeding. Those I like to slow up a bit and build bones as much as bulk. I had feet issues early on as the sows got heavier and by slowing up the finishing stage I found much better results.

FCR 2.1-2.2 is great, well done.

[cdmtdm]

Revar and IA ... and others also in the pig business ... has anyone considered a Co Op arrangement exclusively for independent small to medium size operations? where u bulk buy feeds ( or make your own as a co-op ), establish a code of standards and ethics for each member to adhere to , share information , etc etc ...the sales side can be kept independent , but for purchasing it makes sense ....or am i missing something ?

[COXYATCITY]

hogs & and kisses lol

[CHRISTIANa9]

Just to check again, our overall FCR is 3.3 to 3.6 and includes sow, boar, grower and finisher. Piglets included. So it's a overall FCR. At 2.1 to 2.6 I would assume its only for finisher. Am I right?

[IsaanAussie]

Just to check again, our overall FCR is 3.3 to 3.6 and includes sow, boar, grower and finisher. Piglets included. So it's a overall FCR. At 2.1 to 2.6 I would assume its only for finisher. Am I right?

My 2.6 is the average piglet to finisher (100kg).As I said before these are as breeding pigs. 2.1 to 2.2 is usually the weaned piglet to 100kg figure to be competitive. To me you cannot really equate the two, they are either meat pigs or breeding stock. The relevance for breeding animals is lost.

[Khonwan]

Christian, FCR has to be more aggressive for fattening pigs. My FCR related to weaners around 7kg or so to around 105kg (based on pen average). As IA says, no need to be chasing those figures for breeding stock.

Rgds

Khonwan

[shaggy1969]

Hello there pig farmers,

I know that you are pig breeders/raisers and put your heart and soul into taking care of your animals and only seem to get a small profit in return whilst the buyers and sellers seem to make the easy money !!!

Have none of you ever thought about selling the pork for yourself? I dont mean just for parties,wedding and funerals but on a daily basis via the markets or even a shop at your farm?

An example of a 100 kg pig....

Market weight 100kg

Hanging weight 72 kg (once the head,feet blood and guts are removed.....all of which can be sold)

Pork meat weight 48 kg (possibly 50 kg because i think that you would have less fat on your pigs)

My g/f told me that pork is 140 Baht/kg.....so that would mean you you would get 6720 Baht ( possibly 7000 baht) for the meat alone,and I am sure that the offal,fat,blood and bones you could muster up another 1000-1200 baht.

8000 baht per head sounds a lot better than the 6000 baht you get now.......you could be looking at an extra 30,000 baht every month (selling 1 pig a day) that would go a long way towards those extortionate feed prices !!!!

I'm on your side guys and am just thinking out loud

If you single rib you bellies instead of sheet ribbing them your will maybe get an extra k/g (I did slaughtering,butchering and filleting (fish) in my younger days)

[revar]

Chrisitian, my FCR is for finishers (pigket to 100-105) kg.

It Would not be wise to do the same for breeding pigs since you want to create strong bones and not bulk. my 100+ finishers with low fcrs often don't want to walk anymore because it puts a strain on their hind legs.. pigs which I want to breed with I seperate at around 60 kg and they get a different diet and I won't even look at theirr FCR.

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[RedBullHorn]

Just to check again, our overall FCR is 3.3 to 3.6 and includes sow, boar, grower and finisher. Piglets included. So it's a overall FCR. At 2.1 to 2.6 I would assume its only for finisher. Am I right?

My 2.6 is the average piglet to finisher (100kg).As I said before these are as breeding pigs. 2.1 to 2.2 is usually the weaned piglet to 100kg figure to be competitive. To me you cannot really equate the two, they are either meat pigs or breeding stock. The relevance for breeding animals is lost.

Mine was done at 2.2-2.3:1 (16kg-finisher) Lowest weight is 95kg, heavest at 137kg.

[IsaanAussie]

Hello there pig farmers,

I know that you are pig breeders/raisers and put your heart and soul into taking care of your animals and only seem to get a small profit in return whilst the buyers and sellers seem to make the easy money !!!

Have none of you ever thought about selling the pork for yourself? I dont mean just for parties,wedding and funerals but on a daily basis via the markets or even a shop at your farm?

An example of a 100 kg pig....

Market weight 100kg

Hanging weight 72 kg (once the head,feet blood and guts are removed.....all of which can be sold)

Pork meat weight 48 kg (possibly 50 kg because i think that you would have less fat on your pigs)

My g/f told me that pork is 140 Baht/kg.....so that would mean you you would get 6720 Baht ( possibly 7000 baht) for the meat alone,and I am sure that the offal,fat,blood and bones you could muster up another 1000-1200 baht.

8000 baht per head sounds a lot better than the 6000 baht you get now.......you could be looking at an extra 30,000 baht every month (selling 1 pig a day) that would go a long way towards those extortionate feed prices !!!!

I'm on your side guys and am just thinking out loud

If you single rib you bellies instead of sheet ribbing them your will maybe get an extra k/g (I did slaughtering,butchering and filleting (fish) in my younger days)

There are a number of members who do sell meat. I have tried on occassion but our local "foot traffic" market is not large enough. I add value to some cuts,bacon etc..

[CHRISTIANa9]

Thank you guys for all the inputs on FCR. I guess I have to dissect my data a bit further.

[revar]

Sold at 62thb/kg today. Aftee that Several inquiries and lookers. Offers between 60 and 64.

Prices are keeping up after chinese newyear in this area. Not many finishers available. But some people seeing the current prices are buying piglets again.

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[COXYATCITY]

Jimmy asks you to Give a Fork about your Pork Do you give a fork about your pork? This is the question Red Tractor pig farmer and TV presenter Jimmy Doherty has posed to the nation to get them looking for the Red Tractor logo on their pork. As the campaign comes to an end this weekend he reminds our readers why the Red Tractor logo is so important on your food in this blog entry.

"We’re a nation of pork lovers, from bacon sandwiches and bangers and mash, to a good old Sunday pork roast with all the crackling. And we’re also great at producing it - our pig farmers are the beating heart of this country producing world renowned product that we can be proud of. But, they’re also under threat now more than ever. Imported pork, much of which is produced to standards lower than those acceptable in this country, combined with the increase in feed costs is really putting the squeeze on our farmers."

"But shoppers can make a big difference by looking for the Red Tractor on pack when they buy their pork, sausage, ham and bacon – that way you know that the pork you’ve brought can be traced back to Red Tractor farms like mine. Being a Red Tractor farmer means we are inspected 4 times a year, and we have 130 different regulations that we have to meet. But as farmers, we’re happy do this if it means that shoppers feel confident in the pork they’re buying and know that it’s completely traceable. The Red Tractor mark is also the only a full feed to fork supply chain scheme. That’s why I’m asking shoppers to give a fork about their pork and look out for the Red Tractor on pack."

To hear more about Red Tractor pork and pig farmers log onto to the Youtube LovePorkUK channel to view the series of videos, which feature myself, Stuart another Red Tractor pig farmer and a Master Butcher Keith Fisher, discussing the scheme standards from farm to pack .

Jimmy Doherty, Red Tractor Pig Farmer

Show your support for Love Pork & Jimmy's 'Give a Fork' campaign on www.lovepork.co.uk and via Facebook and using #giveafork on twitter.

[IsaanAussie]

Sold at 62thb/kg today. Aftee that Several inquiries and lookers. Offers between 60 and 64.

Prices are keeping up after chinese newyear in this area. Not many finishers available. But some people seeing the current prices are buying piglets again.

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Time to state the obvious...."Here we go again!"

Same happening here. The next two months will see the annual bout of weddings around here so make the most of it.

[revar]

Agreed, thats whats planning is all about. To have finished pigs available in the times demand(price) is high. Finishers will be in demand until june/july after that Budist lent. Then I will only buy small piglets so I will have no finished pigs during this period but will have them when it ends. This type of planning is the most important thing when raising pigs here if you want to make a profit. Even more important then feed brand etc.

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[MrChangers]

Well pigsters the pigs have been sold and the pens are bare with some serious lessons learnt.

I lost 1 of the 41 but the rest returned a good result including a young boar.

Now into making my own pig food that will be a great saving, been talking to a guy in Kressang who makes his own and knocks out 800 pigs a month for the Buriram market on his own feed now rather than commercial food.

Dig deep and go seek boys. Back in Surin in 2 days and got sourced some piglets at 1500 a throw down the road so grabbing the lot of 25 young piglets at 20Kg. Seen them already and they are fit pigs.

[MrChangers]

Ok so it was too good an offer to turn down .... got a call from a friend in the next village and now have 8 little beauties at the princely sum of a 1000 baht each.

Back in the hamsters wheel :-)

Still have the others to pick up as well.

[humblefalang]

finally the price ii gone up around here,

selling my last 8 for 60 a kilo to a local temple, guaranteed 110 kilos up each, never kept them so long, they have a massive coat of fat, the buys does not care, actually he said the fatter the better,

raising another 36 piglets at the moment,

one question fellas,

when you say my pigs are 2 months or whatever age,do you mean from birth age or from when they are taken out from the sow to eat by themselves?

[COXYATCITY]

finally the price ii gone up around here,

selling my last 8 for 60 a kilo to a local temple, guaranteed 110 kilos up each, never kept them so long, they have a massive coat of fat, the buys does not care, actually he said the fatter the better,

raising another 36 piglets at the moment,

one question fellas,

when you say my pigs are 2 months or whatever age,do you mean from birth age or from when they are taken out from the sow to eat by themselves?

to me it would be from birth,but others may be different

cheers Ian

[IsaanAussie]

From Farrowing Date, nothing else makes sense

[revar]

Humblefarang, good question. I have been wondering the same with some posters.

I buy my piglets and often don't know their age. So I use terms like from x to y kg in 4 months instead of an age. In my area talk about the #months from when they got the piglets. Not from birth. It is different when you breed them yourself. Then you calculate from birth.

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[Khonwan]

I always aged my pigs from birth - I always asked my suppliers for their pigs' birth dates.

Rgds

Khonwan

[revar]

Word has spread about our 'quality' pigs and finaly private parties are finding us as well.

Especialy happy about a new guy who find pigs for parties in 6 vilages. He bought 4 today. Offered 60 (the price others are selling at) but I held out for 62 sold them for 62 at an avg weight of 102.5kg. He wanted more but I have promised another 2 next week to another party in our vilage. getting regular calls and visits from butchers as well. there is a real shortage of pigs here at the moment.

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[IsaanAussie]

Same everywhere is my view. The poor prices and patience have finally meant everyone has sold for what they could get. The "standard" prices listed are now achievable. Around the 12th through the 20th a lot of weddings and next month Songkran. If you have lasted this long, hang in for another two weeks before you sell for the buyers rates. Well done Revar