Eat In & Take Away

[uptheos]

The Duke's did pick up the delivery charge one month from MOW as a promotion. Also they did free lemonade for orders over 300 and 500 Baht. It did not affect the amounts of delivery but I would have to guess that customers were happier.

That would be a good guess

The money question though is, why isn't this indirect discount a permanent feature of outside ordering?

Good question. Maybe it is because the folks doing the ordering are happy to have the service and don't really mind about the 50 Baht. Those on a budget are more likely to eat at home and frequent the cheaper noodle shops and mall food courts.

The next big question would have to be, if there were a discount, would that have more folks skipping Rim Ping and ordering out? The one thing I have always found about discounts is that they do not help drive business. Maybe those with a CityLife Discount card can help with the answer. Does the CityLife discount card determine where a person will eat at or do they decide where to eat and then use the card if it is accepted?

Sorry butI think the point is totally missing.

It's not about ordering in via a delivery service, which I have used quite often for convenience and it's not about people on budgets. It's just the question that if a restaurant pays a delivery company X Baht, why can't that saving be passed on to anyone who wants to takeaway in person? Because people choose to eat at Thai restaurants or suggest improvements to a service, doesn't necessarily mean they are on low budgets.

As far as Rim Ping is concerned, do people really go there to prop it up?

[IanForbes]

I'm not a very good customer at western oriented restaurants. I can't recall EVER doing take away. I eat almost exclusively at Thai cafes and only occasionally go somewhere else when one of my ladies wants a special night on the town. If that's the case, I leave it up to her to choose the location and most often the girls choose just another Thai restaurant. When we go out as a group it's never to a place that offers take away, other than someone who hasn't finished their meal and wants to take the remainder home.

[november222]

I'm not a very good customer at western oriented restaurants. I can't recall EVER doing take away. I eat almost exclusively at Thai cafes and only occasionally go somewhere else when one of my ladies wants a special night on the town. If that's the case, I leave it up to her to choose the location and most often the girls choose just another Thai restaurant. When we go out as a group it's never to a place that offers take away, other than someone who hasn't finished their meal and wants to take the remainder home.

can i interrupt just to say that i've got nothing to add this topic?nice one.

Edited September 28, 2010 by november222

[naboo]

Once ordered 9 pizzas from Dukes for take out, 24hrs notice, 11am pick up. Enquired about a discount but it was not available.  

The pizzas were fantastic, but on an order that size before they get busy, with notice, I'd have thought they'd have been slightly more generous.

As a consequence of the lack of discount, I've never been back. 

[november222]

Once ordered 9 pizzas from Dukes for take out, 24hrs notice, 11am pick up. Enquired about a discount but it was not available.

The pizzas were fantastic, but on an order that size before they get busy, with notice, I'd have thought they'd have been slightly more generous.

As a consequence of the lack of discount, I've never been back.

the pizzas were fantastic but................. i've never been back..?

you should have made it clear that it wasn't and inquiry about a discount but an ultimatum.

Edited September 28, 2010 by november222

[naboo]

the pizzas were fantastic but.................  i've never been back..?

you should have made it clear that it wasn't and inquiry about a discount but an ultimatum.

It was no ultimatum. I'd never been a Duke's customer prior to this, this was their (missed) opportunity to win a customer. They didn't do enough to win my repeated custom. A simple 10% off the bill and I'd have been smiling and dancing in the following week. They lost.

[november222]

the pizzas were fantastic but................. i've never been back..?

you should have made it clear that it wasn't and inquiry about a discount but an ultimatum.

It was no ultimatum. I'd never been a Duke's customer prior to this, this was their (missed) opportunity to win a customer. They didn't do enough to win my repeated custom. A simple 10% off the bill and I'd have been smiling and dancing in the following week. They lost.

your right, technically it wasnt an ultimatum but since he lost your business .....?

for most pplaces fantastic food would be enough to win a customer over . his business prospers because of that.

where do you go for fantastic pizzas now?

[CMX]

You know, in the U.S. I've lived in communities where Chinese take-out is actually good. When I reflect upon it, I don't recall that their prices were different for eating in. I'm guessing that their thinking might have run to further buying or tips to balance their efforts.

Edited September 28, 2010 by CMX

[Gonzo the Face]

Next thing you know some will want a discount on the beer they drink while sitting at the bar because they gave it back before they left..... in the toilet that is....

It is my opinion the the difference in savings or costs between eat in and take out is so miniscule that the whole discussion is an exercise in futility...

There are costs in both in or out eating , that to me makes it a even steven draw. Not worth the time discussing except for cheap charlies looking to save enough to buy 1 more beer in a week.

Just my opinion

Just maybe that is why you do not see this different pricing any where in the world that I am familiar with..... go ahead tell me all the places that you know about

Edited September 28, 2010 by Gonzo the Face

[ChiangMai2]

It is my opinion the the difference in savings or costs between eat in and take out is so miniscule that the whole discussion is an exercise in futility...

There are costs in both in or out eating , that to me makes it a even steven draw. Not worth the time discussing except for cheap charlies looking to save enough to buy 1 more beer in a week.

Just my opinion

Totally agree with you! Certain people seem to be obsessed with discount cards, freebies, offers and incentives. In some cases they are not a bad thing but expecting a discount for a takeaway, well I'd be embarrassed to ask!

[uptheos]

It is my opinion the the difference in savings or costs between eat in and take out is so miniscule that the whole discussion is an exercise in futility...

There are costs in both in or out eating , that to me makes it a even steven draw. Not worth the time discussing except for cheap charlies looking to save enough to buy 1 more beer in a week.

Just my opinion

Totally agree with you! Certain people seem to be obsessed with discount cards, freebies, offers and incentives. In some cases they are not a bad thing but expecting a discount for a takeaway, well I'd be embarrassed to ask!

I don't think discounts have anything to do with people being 'cheap charlies' and I also don't think people are obsessed with discount cards and freebies. On the contrary, there are certain places and one of them is a sponsor here, that encourage you to apply for their discount card and often seem to have lots of specials. If restaurant owners feel so aggrieved at the very thought of a discount, why don't they stop doing their specials on certain days?

[Thakkar]

the pizzas were fantastic but.................  i've never been back..?

you should have made it clear that it wasn't and inquiry about a discount but an ultimatum.

It was no ultimatum. I'd never been a Duke's customer prior to this, this was their (missed) opportunity to win a customer. They didn't do enough to win my repeated custom. A simple 10% off the bill and I'd have been smiling and dancing in the following week. They lost.

Actually, you lost as well since you can no longer enjoy what you yourself describe as their 'Fantastic' pizza due to your self-imposed boycott.

I can understand why restaurants don't want to encourage bargaining; that is simply not their M.O.

[getgoin]

Once ordered 9 pizzas from Dukes for take out, 24hrs notice, 11am pick up. Enquired about a discount but it was not available.

The pizzas were fantastic, but on an order that size before they get busy, with notice, I'd have thought they'd have been slightly more generous.

As a consequence of the lack of discount, I've never been back.

The Duke's regularly gives discounts for large orders and for catering. At the Night Bazaar location they have done all you can eat pizza and pasta for parties at a cost of just around 200 Baht per person. The Duke's sells 40-50 large pizzas a week to the local international schools for fund raising events at 250 Baht per pizza and sells pizzas to the schools for parties and events for only 300 Baht. I believe that is more than 30% discount.

Someone should never expect a discount but it is the squeaky wheel that usually gets the grease. That being said the wheel might have to squeak at the right place and at the right time and maybe squeak more than once.

Edited September 28, 2010 by getgoin

[uptheos]

Once ordered 9 pizzas from Dukes for take out, 24hrs notice, 11am pick up. Enquired about a discount but it was not available.

The pizzas were fantastic, but on an order that size before they get busy, with notice, I'd have thought they'd have been slightly more generous.

As a consequence of the lack of discount, I've never been back.

The Duke's regularly gives discounts for large orders and for catering. At the Night Bazaar location they have done all you can eat pizza and pasta for parties at a cost of just around 200 Baht per person. The Duke's sells 40-50 large pizzas a week to the local international schools for fund raising events at 250 Baht per pizza and sells pizzas to the schools for parties and events for only 300 Baht. I believe that is more than 30% discount.

Someone should never expect a discount but it is the squeaky wheel that usually gets the grease. That being said the wheel might have to squeak at the right place and at the right time and maybe squeak more than once.

Thanks for the input getgoin.

I didn't know this about Dukes and I'm sure many others didn't either. It's nice to see Dukes being pro-active with their pizza and pasta for parties at such a good price, though I'm sure those who are against discounts would never take advantage of this and instead choose a time when there's no discount.

[naboo]

The Duke's regularly gives discounts for large orders and for catering.

Grrr. Why didn't I get one then?

Someone asked where I get my pizzas now - Chan Klan Road, after SAMO, near the Rattilanna hotel, small soi on the right (heading towards the river) has an Italian guesthouse with restaurant. I forget the name of the place, but the Italian owner certainly knows how to do a good pizza, and look after his customers.

[uptheos]

The Duke's regularly gives discounts for large orders and for catering.

Grrr. Why didn't I get one then?

Someone asked where I get my pizzas now - Chan Klan Road, after SAMO, near the Rattilanna hotel, small soi on the right (heading towards the river) has an Italian guesthouse with restaurant. I forget the name of the place, but the Italian owner certainly knows how to do a good pizza, and look after his customers.

Thanks for the info, sounds like a good place to try.

This thread has over 850 hits and a couple of people who think those wanting discounts are cheap charlies.

I assume the other 800 or so, really wouldn't mind a discount, but won't say for fear of being insulted.

One or two really is quite an insignificant number.

Edited September 28, 2010 by uptheos

[getgoin]

The Duke's regularly gives discounts for large orders and for catering.

Grrr. Why didn't I get one then?

"...it is the squeaky wheel that usually gets the grease. That being said the wheel might have to squeak at the right place and at the right time and maybe squeak more than once."

Being that it was your first time at The Duke's. Try on your next order.

[uptheos]

Why do some pubs and restaurants push their discount cards and offer regular specials, if they only attract cheap charlies?

[november222]

Why do some pubs and restaurants push their discount cards and offer regular specials, if they only attract cheap charlies?

very good question. ive no idea. masochism maybe?

[PlanetX]

I can definitely see that spending as little money as possible (either by necessity or hobby) can become an art form for some people

I don't always see why "specials/ promotions hunting" is considered such low class behavior

I always look at the specials and there are plenty of times when I am trying to decide what to eat that if someone is having a special I will go there

I do see the point in criticizing people whom maliciously try and one up another person (business) by getting more service/product then what they are paying

But I also think that there is a large group of people that "specials/promotions hunt" to

a) justify the expense and risk of going to a new place

eat multiple specials during the week to get more bang for buck (while still supporting local business owners)

c) feel appreciated because they are given a deal (human nature self-importance ego issue)

I don't think its fair to lump all comments about bargains/ specials/ promotions in with individuals that only sustain themselves through the abuse of others

Edited September 28, 2010 by PlanetX

[uptheos]

I can definitely see that spending as little money as possible (either by necessity or hobby) can become an art form for some people

I don't always see why "specials/ promotions hunting" is considered such low class behavior

I always look at the specials and there are plenty of times when I am trying to decide what to eat that if someone is having a special I will go there

I do see the point in criticizing people whom maliciously try and one up another person (business) by getting more service/product then what they are paying

But I also think that there is a large group of people that "specials/promotions hunt" to

a) justify the expense and risk of going to a new place

eat multiple specials during the week to get more bang for buck (while still supporting local business owners)

c) feel appreciated because they are given a deal (human nature self-importance ego issue)

I don't think its fair to lump all comments about bargains/ specials/ promotions in with individuals that only sustain themselves through the abuse of others

Well, my guess is that these comments either come from struggling restaurant owners or friends of those owners.

In the bigger picture, their comments are a miniscule percentage of the readers, so they need to be taken with a pinch of salt. There's nothing cheap about looking for bargains or discounts, in fact if anything it's rather smart. I would imagine those people who refer to others as 'cheap charlies' would pay the first price asked for in the night bazaar or other market.

[Gonzo the Face]

Wonder if there is any connection between the good folks looking for discounts and the amount of tips they leave for hard working staff..... vs those not especially looking for discounts?

No one at this end is picking on anyone looking for a better price or specials..... but come on guys such a debate on wether or not take away vs eating in should warrant such a level of interest...... The difference is minescule......

[uptheos]

Wonder if there is any connection between the good folks looking for discounts and the amount of tips they leave for hard working staff..... vs those not especially looking for discounts?

No one at this end is picking on anyone looking for a better price or specials..... but come on guys such a debate on wether or not take away vs eating in should warrant such a level of interest...... The difference is minescule......

I think you'll find that when people get a good deal in a restaurant they are inclined to leave a bigger tip - often the saving is passed on to the server, which of course might grate on the owner.

The simple question is; if a restaurant pays a delivery company X for a takeaway, why can't that same discount be passed on to a personal caller?

There's no need for red herrings and diversions, it's a simple question.

[buzzer101]

Wonder if there is any connection between the good folks looking for discounts and the amount of tips they leave for hard working staff..... vs those not especially looking for discounts?

No one at this end is picking on anyone looking for a better price or specials..... but come on guys such a debate on wether or not take away vs eating in should warrant such a level of interest...... The difference is minescule......

I think you'll find that when people get a good deal in a restaurant they are inclined to leave a bigger tip - often the saving is passed on to the server, which of course might grate on the owner.

The simple question is; if a restaurant pays a delivery company X for a takeaway, why can't that same discount be passed on to a personal caller?

There's no need for red herrings and diversions, it's a simple question.

From MOW point of view is that it is a volume thing where we order xxx amouint per month which give the restaurant an incentive for the discount (which I thing happens all over the world in any business).

Also we were going to close after 4 months when we started as we could not operate at a loss charging only 70 baht a delivery hence asking the restaurants for a discount and going back to the above point it works well for them as well with xxx orders per year..

[whatsupdoc]

Wonder if there is any connection between the good folks looking for discounts and the amount of tips they leave for hard working staff..... vs those not especially looking for discounts?

No one at this end is picking on anyone looking for a better price or specials..... but come on guys such a debate on wether or not take away vs eating in should warrant such a level of interest...... The difference is minescule......

I think you'll find that when people get a good deal in a restaurant they are inclined to leave a bigger tip - often the saving is passed on to the server, which of course might grate on the owner.

The simple question is; if a restaurant pays a delivery company X for a takeaway, why can't that same discount be passed on to a personal caller?

There's no need for red herrings and diversions, it's a simple question.

Simply a matter of volume. MOW will probably regularly place an order at that restaurant whereas the individual client does not.

If an individual client places a very large order he usually can get a discount.

Edited September 29, 2010 by whatsupdoc

[cmsoulbrother]

Here’s my opinion take on this as a restaurant owner.

As many of you have noted, times are a bit hard right now and many of us in the restaurant business could certainly use more customers and a bit more money to pay the bills at the end of the month. Most of us, I think, work pretty hard to please our customers and most would be happy to jump on anything that would increase business and profits, please customers and give a competitive advantage. However, even though things are a bit slow right now, offering a discount on take-out is a complicated thing.

This is sort of how I would look at this as a financial calculation:

People who are looking for food delivered can only order from restaurants that either employ drivers or participate in Meals on Wheels or a similar service. So from a restaurant point of view, giving a small percentage of the sales cost to be able to expand your market reach to this segment of customers may make good sense, especially as for most restaurants, giving 10% to MOW is going to cost less and be far less hassle than employing your own drivers.

Honestly, giving the 10% hurts the margins pretty considerably, but it’s still better than getting no share of that business.

People who want to come in and get a take away order can come in and do so whether or not a discount is offered. A small discount may convince some people to come or come more frequently…or it may not and you would simply make less money on your existing take-away trade.

• If I don’t give that 10% to a service like MOW I get a 0% share of the delivery business and almost certainly make less money - It’s a no brainer…

• If I give a 10% discount to take-away, I may sell a bit more but at a lower margin, or I may sell the same amount at a lower margin - or I may sell more, but still at a lower margin – so it’s more of a gamble, and not one that I am sure will pay off.

As far as the costs go: unless my restaurant was packed to the rafters every night, or unless I’d have people lining up out the door for take outs, then my costs as far as rent, staffing, electricity etc. are not really going to change at all – so unless you are a restaurant that’s completely full every night, then there aren’t really any savings to be had by occasional take-outs in real terms.

[uptheos]

OK, I'm just guessing here - I can be corrected if I'm wrong.

Restaurant's let the delivery company buy the meal at X discount (fair enough the delivery company is good and needs to survive).

Restaurants want to be seen on the delivery company's list - not cool to be left out.

Restaurant's would however, rather not be on the list as "the savings are minuscule" and they are already feeling aggrieved.

Restaurant's (feeling aggrieved) certainly don't want to feel even more so, by accommodating personal callers and giving them the discount also.

Restaurant's (and friends) in order to prevent this, put up a smokescreen and revert to trying to put people down.

[uptheos]

Here's my opinion take on this as a restaurant owner.

As many of you have noted, times are a bit hard right now and many of us in the restaurant business could certainly use more customers and a bit more money to pay the bills at the end of the month. Most of us, I think, work pretty hard to please our customers and most would be happy to jump on anything that would increase business and profits, please customers and give a competitive advantage. However, even though things are a bit slow right now, offering a discount on take-out is a complicated thing.

This is sort of how I would look at this as a financial calculation:

People who are looking for food delivered can only order from restaurants that either employ drivers or participate in Meals on Wheels or a similar service. So from a restaurant point of view, giving a small percentage of the sales cost to be able to expand your market reach to this segment of customers may make good sense, especially as for most restaurants, giving 10% to MOW is going to cost less and be far less hassle than employing your own drivers.

Honestly, giving the 10% hurts the margins pretty considerably, but it's still better than getting no share of that business.

People who want to come in and get a take away order can come in and do so whether or not a discount is offered. A small discount may convince some people to come or come more frequently…or it may not and you would simply make less money on your existing take-away trade.

• If I don't give that 10% to a service like MOW I get a 0% share of the delivery business and almost certainly make less money - It's a no brainer…

• If I give a 10% discount to take-away, I may sell a bit more but at a lower margin, or I may sell the same amount at a lower margin - or I may sell more, but still at a lower margin – so it's more of a gamble, and not one that I am sure will pay off.

As far as the costs go: unless my restaurant was packed to the rafters every night, or unless I'd have people lining up out the door for take outs, then my costs as far as rent, staffing, electricity etc. are not really going to change at all – so unless you are a restaurant that's completely full every night, then there aren't really any savings to be had by occasional take-outs in real terms.

Thanks for your informative post.

Can I just ask; if you are already giving 10% discount to the delivery company (which you continue to do), but in addition throw the offer of 10% discount open to personal callers - do you think that would have a negative or positive affect on your business?

[cmsoulbrother]

Can I just ask; if you are already giving 10% discount to the delivery company (which you continue to do), but in addition throw the offer of 10% discount open to personal callers - do you think that would have a negative or positive affect on your business?

These things can be tough to predict, but for my situation, I don't think it would be the right choice. It sort of depends on your margins I think. If you're a restaurant that's running with very low food costs and then the percentage profit loss of a 10% discount is much lower than a place that's running on higher food costs. We've always tried to give people really good value and a pretty hearty meal, which is one reason I think we've managed to stick around for a number of years. As a consequence of this, however, we run with pretty high food costs and much smaller total margin, and so I think for us it would be the wrong choice.

as a fictional example to illustrate:

• restaurant A sells with a 25% food cost and 25% fixed costs. This restaurant gives a 10% discount off the sale price and loses 20% of their total profit off the sale.
  
• Restaurant B runs with a 55% food cost and 25% fixed costs. This restaurant gives a 10% discount off the sale price and loses 50% of their total profits off the sale.
  

Restaurant B would have to double their take-out business before they would make an equal amount if giving a 10% discount - But in fact by doubling their business their fixed costs might even go up (need an extra cook or something) and so a doubling of sales might still result in a net loss of profits.

Since MOW offers additional sales that wouldn't be available otherwise, unlike personal take-ways, even a pretty substantial reduction in profits (although tough) still makes good financial sense.

Edited September 29, 2010 by cmsoulbrother

[uptheos]

Can I just ask; if you are already giving 10% discount to the delivery company (which you continue to do), but in addition throw the offer of 10% discount open to personal callers - do you think that would have a negative or positive affect on your business?

These things can be tough to predict, but for my situation, I don't think it would be the right choice. It sort of depends on your margins I think. If you're a restaurant that's running with very low food costs and then the percentage profit loss of a 10% discount is much lower than a place that's running on higher food costs. We've always tried to give people really good value and a pretty hearty meal, which is one reason I think we've managed to stick around for a number of years. As a consequence of this, however, we run with pretty high food costs and much smaller total margin, and so I think for us it would be the wrong choice.

as a fictional example to illustrate:

• restaurant A sells with a 25% food cost and 25% fixed costs. This restaurant gives a 10% discount off the sale price and loses 20% of their total profit off the sale.
• Restaurant B runs with a 55% food cost and 25% fixed costs. This restaurant gives a 10% discount off the sale price and loses 50% of their total profits off the sale.

Restaurant B would have to double their take-out business before they would make an equal amount if giving a 10% discount - But in fact by doubling their business their fixed costs might even go up (need an extra cook or something) and so a doubling of sales might still result in a net loss of profits.

Since MOW offers additional sales that wouldn't be available otherwise, unlike personal take-ways, even a pretty substantial reduction in profits (although tough) still makes good financial sense.

Thanks.

Why then do restaurants want their names on the delivery company list in the first place.....altruism?

Wouldn't it be more cost effective for them not to?

I'm still missing, if A gets 10% discount already, what's the problem with B getting the same?