Is Greed Killing Thai-Saudi Ties?

[selftaopath]

the point is being missed..... Saudi is merely illustrating that Thai politics, corruption, and greed still remain unchanged after 20 years. How can they (Saudi) move on to better relations with Thailand unless they accept the never improving (only worsting) Thai standards. Would you prefer having Saudi say that its ok, we accept the corruption and greed from Thailand because it is their natural way.?

I'll first admit to not knowing much about these events. I would like to urge all nations in the civilized world to think a/b no longer accepting Thailand's endemic of greed/corruption/lying/cheating/cover ups and police running self willed unchecked. I applaud SA for anything/everything they can do to show utter disdain at the typical untruthful Thai approach to practically everything. Granted not all Thai people are crooks. Some are even good Buddhists.

Thanks, TV members,

Keoki

[LomSak27]

I like the unashamedly bigoted response BaronCasey. You're an Expat, no?

[Humphrey Bear]

Is this how Saudi princess roll?  With 200lbs of gold and 20mil+ in jewels?  

Or did the guy have some sort of jewelry business?  

Personal jewellry.

[Naam]

The Haj visa threat is a bluff. As custodian for the holy sites, the Saudis cannot block anyone wishing to fulfill HIS religious obligation (her is intentionally excluded). If the Saudis had no problem with murderers/terrorists from Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Pakistan as pilgrims then how can they object to non implicated Thai muslims? How can someone even compare a decent law abiding fellow from Phuket that saves for a lifetime to make his pilgrimage with the Syrians that buried their countrymen alive at the massacre of Hamm?

not really. there is a Hajj visa quota for each country and this quota can be easily tampered with, especially as it is based on former Hajj / Umra visits. as the work visas for Thais have been phased out the number of Thai pilgrims dropped considerably enabling the Saudis to reduce the quota nearly at will.

[james24]

As Saudi and US ties are so strong I think Thailand should be very careful.

In a way its good to see that governments of other countries are gettng tired of Thailands blatent piss taking rather than just tourists.

[james24]

Fifteen of the seventeen terrorists who killed three thousand innocent people by flying aircraft into civilian offices at the World Trade Centre were Saudi Arabians. I know most Saudi people would spit on Westerners and Thais people. Personally, I'm very happy that a Thai lad from the village stole the jewelry, and I think it's very funny that the Thai Police sent back fake stones. It's an absolutely hilarious piss take! I mean what sort of bloke need to have 200lb in weight of jewelry in his house - apart from stinking Arab?

let me guess your Jewish

[rgs2001uk]

The Haj visa threat is a bluff. As custodian for the holy sites, the Saudis cannot block anyone wishing to fulfill HIS religious obligation (her is intentionally excluded). If the Saudis had no problem with murderers/terrorists from Syria, Libya, Afghanistan and Pakistan as pilgrims then how can they object to non implicated Thai muslims? How can someone even compare a decent law abiding fellow from Phuket that saves for a lifetime to make his pilgrimage with the Syrians that buried their countrymen alive at the massacre of Hamm?

Not quite correct.

The Saudis issue pilgrimage visas throughout the year, especially at Hajj.

But these are limited in number, because it would strain Saudi resources too much if every man and his dog decided that this is the year they want to perform Hajj or Umrah.

Thus the Saudis could happily restrict the number of visas allocated to Thailand to a mere handful, while increasing the number to Indonesia and Malaysia (both countries being very supportive of Saudi actions).

The Saudis have already cut out the Thai workers visas. A handful of Thais still work in Saudi, but at least one, personally known to me, has not left the Kingdom in the past twenty years. He values his well-paid job too much. Also when transferring money I had great problems trying to find a direct route to Thailand. Not Al Rajhi nor Al Amoudi would transfer to Thailand, so I sent my money back to UK, then transferred from there. Many restrictions apply. This is still a deep wound in Saudi affairs.

For general information, the jewellry was not just one hundred kilo package. It was sent over a period of time in small packets - sold by the family for peanuts - survival money. Some was buried and recovered when the guy completed his tour. This is what was later pawned, the guy who bought it killed in an accident, the police chief's wife seen wearing some of it, so on, so on. I don't know the full story, doubt if anyone does. I was in Libya when it happened, but have had a couple more tours in Saudi since then. Everyone seems to know about it - when locals found out where I lived they always asked why I lived there - wasn't I afriad of being robbed or killed as this was a very bad country. I always explained that there were different people in different areas, as with the rest of the world, but it was impossible to convince anyone. They all have tales of bad experience with Thai workers and I doubt that relations will ever be good. The attitude and culture of each nation is diametrically opposed to the other.

Borrowing from the above,

Quote "The attitude and culture of each nation is diametrically opposed to the other."

If so inclined I could make an arguement that they have more in common.

Both have problems with a family that cannot be named,

both appear to pay lip service to the religion they both claim to follow,

its family over everyone else,

they all dream of going back to their village, whether it is bedouins in Saudi or upcountry workers in Bangkok,

money is number one,

face is of prime importance,

both treat sections of their overseas workers like shit, for Saudi ask the Bangladeshis, Pakistans and any other TCN's for details,

in Thailand ask the Burmese, Cambodians or Laotians for details.

both countries have problems in the South,

the men spend most of their time preening themselves like peacocks,

the status of women in both countries is debatable, irrespective of what the laws may say,

driving standards?

if their is any crime its always an immigrants fault, for Saudi blame the Egyptians or the Yemenis, for Thailand see as before.

Thats just off the top of my head, dare say if I gave it serious consideration I could go on.

[Naam]

Fifteen of the seventeen terrorists who killed three thousand innocent people by flying aircraft into civilian offices at the World Trade Centre were Saudi Arabians. I know most Saudi people would spit on Westerners and Thais people. Personally, I'm very happy that a Thai lad from the village stole the jewelry, and I think it's very funny that the Thai Police sent back fake stones. It's an absolutely hilarious piss take! I mean what sort of bloke need to have 200lb in weight of jewelry in his house - apart from stinking Arab?

let me guess your Jewish

my guess is that he is just a stupid little poor boy who envies "stinking Arabs".

[CockneyGit]

There again, given the identity of the woman seen wearing the blue diamond in public several times following the theft, perhaps the stance of successive Thai governments is understandable and cannot be questioned too deeply.

Exactly! This is the crux of the whole thing..!!

[Naam]

There again, given the identity of the woman seen wearing the blue diamond in public several times following the theft, perhaps the stance of successive Thai governments is understandable and cannot be questioned too deeply.

Exactly! This is the crux of the whole thing..!!

may i humbly ask who the lady is wearing the afore-said diamond or is this a topic endangering national security?

[cloudhopper]

may i humbly ask who the lady is wearing the afore-said diamond or is this a topic endangering national security?

Apparently. A google image search will answer your question, although the authenticity of the diamond images (not to mention just about any image these days) is questionable as detailed in a previous post.

[tomyummer]

Fifteen of the seventeen terrorists who killed three thousand innocent people by flying aircraft into civilian offices at the World Trade Centre were Saudi Arabians. I know most Saudi people would spit on Westerners and Thais people. Personally, I'm very happy that a Thai lad from the village stole the jewelry, and I think it's very funny that the Thai Police sent back fake stones. It's an absolutely hilarious piss take! I mean what sort of bloke need to have 200lb in weight of jewelry in his house - apart from stinking Arab?

let me guess your Jewish

my guess is that he is just a stupid little poor boy who envies "stinking Arabs".

I can't seem to find the original post of BaronCasey. Did it get ejected??

[wintermute]

Good luck prying that big blue diamond from the hands of whichever old hi-so gray haired thai lady has it now.

Nothing short of a declaration of war will bring that back. I'm surprised the U.S. hasn't exerted some pressure though because Saudi-U.S. relations are a hel_l of a lot more important than Thai-U.S. in the scheme of things.

Edited September 30, 2010 by wintermute

[BaronCasey]

I like the unashamedly bigoted response BaronCasey. You're an Expat, no?

Yes, I'm an Expat. I also spent some time working in Saudi. I freely admit that I am a bigot too. Their religious education leaves many of them with much open hatred towards everyone that is not an Arab. As we know, all we hear about on the news, is about how many "enemy combatants" are 'foreign insurgents' in Afghanistan and Iraq. The international news-media is fed with White House data that is selective, and for political reasons, they portray the Iranians and Syrians as the worst. But in truth, the largest single nationality group of 'foreign insurgents' hoping to shoot a white-man, are actually Saudi Arabians.

[Naam]

I like the unashamedly bigoted response BaronCasey. You're an Expat, no?

Yes, I'm an Expat. I also spent some time working in Saudi. I freely admit that I am a bigot too. Their religious education leaves many of them with much open hatred towards everyone that is not an Arab. As we know, all we hear about on the news, is about how many "enemy combatants" are 'foreign insurgents' in Afghanistan and Iraq. The international news-media is fed with White House data that is selective, and for political reasons, they portray the Iranians and Syrians as the worst. But in truth, the largest single nationality group of 'foreign insurgents' hoping to shoot a white-man, are actually Saudi Arabians.

and you have just proved that you lack education. the latter is besides the point that you seem to bear a grudge because the Saudis kicked you out. in my years in the Middle East, especially in Saudi Arabia i have met scores of people who were losers like you who's only way to compensate for their failure were (and still are) racial slurs such as "stinking Arabs".

[wintermute]

I like the unashamedly bigoted response BaronCasey. You're an Expat, no?

Yes, I'm an Expat. I also spent some time working in Saudi. I freely admit that I am a bigot too. Their religious education leaves many of them with much open hatred towards everyone that is not an Arab. As we know, all we hear about on the news, is about how many "enemy combatants" are 'foreign insurgents' in Afghanistan and Iraq. The international news-media is fed with White House data that is selective, and for political reasons, they portray the Iranians and Syrians as the worst. But in truth, the largest single nationality group of 'foreign insurgents' hoping to shoot a white-man, are actually Saudi Arabians.

and you have just proved that you lack education. the latter is besides the point that you seem to bear a grudge because the Saudis kicked you out. in my years in the Middle East, especially in Saudi Arabia i have met scores of people who were losers like you who's only way to compensate for their failure were (and still are) racial slurs such as "stinking Arabs".

He's not entirely wrong though. The non wealthy Saudis and Wahhabists are kept on a tight leash by the royals there. If there was no one actively keeping a lid on things i'm sure Saudi Arabia would be ruled by theocratic hardliners akin to Iran rather than a U.S. aligned monarchy pretending to be theocratic to satisfy the masses.

Upper class Saudis are a whole different category of people. Most of them are thoroughly westernized in various ways.

[jts-khorat]

There again, given the identity of the woman seen wearing the blue diamond in public several times following the theft, perhaps the stance of successive Thai governments is understandable and cannot be questioned too deeply.

Just an innocent coincidence, that exactly the video on youtube showing this blue diamond while being worn is blocked by the ICT.

[rreddin]

Time heals all wound. 20 years is long enough. I don't know about the Saudis, but Thais have short memories.

Time will not heal this wound until all the gems are returned. The Saudi's are not going to forgive or forget. Nor will they allow Thailand to forget.

[animatic]

Time heals all wound. 20 years is long enough. I don't know about the Saudis, but Thais have short memories.

Time will not heal this wound until all the gems are returned. The Saudi's are not going to forgive or forget. Nor will they allow Thailand to forget.

These were royal jewels if memory serves, and for that memories go on for centuries.

[marquess]

Time heals all wound. 20 years is long enough. I don't know about the Saudis, but Thais have short memories.

Time will not heal this wound until all the gems are returned. The Saudi's are not going to forgive or forget. Nor will they allow Thailand to forget.

These were royal jewels if memory serves, and for that memories go on for centuries.

I hope that it does, Thailand should not be allowed to get away with this!

[evanson]

Time heals all wound. 20 years is long enough. I don't know about the Saudis, but Thais have short memories.

Time will not heal this wound until all the gems are returned. The Saudi's are not going to forgive or forget. Nor will they allow Thailand to forget.

These were royal jewels if memory serves, and for that memories go on for centuries.

Who gives a Flying Fck? :bah:Apart from the thieves who accumulated them in the first instance , and a 'section' amount of Thieving Thais With "Connections' in the second.

Edited October 2, 2010 by evanson

[Naam]

He's not entirely wrong though. The non wealthy Saudis and Wahhabists are kept on a tight leash by the royals there. If there was no one actively keeping a lid on things i'm sure Saudi Arabia would be ruled by theocratic hardliners akin to Iran rather than a U.S. aligned monarchy pretending to be theocratic to satisfy the masses.

Upper class Saudis are a whole different category of people. Most of them are thoroughly westernized in various ways.

does that justify the expression "stinking Arabs"?

[wintermute]

He's not entirely wrong though. The non wealthy Saudis and Wahhabists are kept on a tight leash by the royals there. If there was no one actively keeping a lid on things i'm sure Saudi Arabia would be ruled by theocratic hardliners akin to Iran rather than a U.S. aligned monarchy pretending to be theocratic to satisfy the masses.

Upper class Saudis are a whole different category of people. Most of them are thoroughly westernized in various ways.

does that justify the expression "stinking Arabs"?

I didn't agree with his derogatory racial remarks but the root of his argument is pretty true. Saudis down the food chain really are taught to hate the west. Osama Bin Laden is not some aberration there. He just happened to be someone with the money and time to make it happen on a bigger scale.

If that country wasn't such a strategic resource it would have been turned into a smoking crater long ago.

Edited October 3, 2010 by wintermute

[FarangBuddha]

I hate to say it but most of Khun Avudh Panananda's statements are a bit off in itself:

1) ...the hard fact that not all crimes can be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties involved should be accepted.

Hmmm.....Let's see. 200 lbs. worth of jewels? A member of the Saudi royal family jewels? Cross border crime? If this isn't high profile enough bringing the immediate attention to authorities to get it solved for over 20 years, then some country with its leader should take a course on true crime solving, general etiquette and diplomacy. This was not a normal crime. If it was a handful of jewels one could understand, but 200 lbs. worth?! I think that FedEx or whichever sender the joker used should be investigate heavily too. How can a single guy smuggle 200 lbs. of jewels without any help?

2) ...stole jewellery worth US$20 million (Bt611.5 million)...

Okay, so the journalist can't be blamed for this figure, but even if it was back in 1989 I think it's way off. Just the blue diamond alone was probably worth 2-3 times that because of its rarity (heirloom of the House of Saud). And what is the 2010 adjusted worth for these royal jewels, let alone 200 lbs.?! Ridiculous. The weight and amount stolen alone makes Thailand look like a bunch of jackasses. Just the heist of the blue diamond alone should be a reason to solve this case quickly.

3) The then-crime buster Lt-General Chalor Kerdthes became an instant celebrity for solving the heist.

You must be kidding?! Any dick-head could solve the heist. So darn easy to track from within the palace walls, list of servants, recent or sudden departures from employment, etc. They already knew who did it. My dog could've solved it while lickin' his balls. Bunch of self righteous, self serving idiots. If anything the Lt-General should get his ass-kicked for passing the fake jewels back, or being a party to it.

4) ...swiftly arrested in his hometown in Lampang and sentenced to five years in jail.

This Kriengkrai jerk should still be in jail until all the jewels are returned. What a slap in the face to get only 5 years in jail! He should get at least 1-year in jail per one pound of jewels. The presiding judge should've been reprimanded heavily.

For retribution and satisfaction, and to take it to how things are REALLY done in Thailand, the Saudis should just start taking the laws into their own hands on Thai soil. Since it seems that all key players were killed 20 years ago, the Saudis should just start eliminating who they know is a part of the whole scheme, one by one. And use a very, very dull knife. If they're ever caught, just claim 'diplomatic immunity'.

Interesting points...the sad part of the whole story is that due to the avarice of no doubt some "influential" people or person, who is in possession of said missing jewels, poor labouring class Thais have been prevented from working, and thus earning a decent living, in Saudia Arabia for going on 20 years. At the time of the theft, SA was the top destination for Thai foreign workers.

Of course, said "influentials" couldn't care less about this fact.

[mca]

does that justify the expression "stinking Arabs"?

Odoriferous Bedouins might have been more suitable.

[animatic]

I hate to say it but most of Khun Avudh Panananda's statements are a bit off in itself:

1) ...the hard fact that not all crimes can be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties involved should be accepted.

Hmmm.....Let's see. 200 lbs. worth of jewels? A member of the Saudi royal family jewels? Cross border crime? If this isn't high profile enough bringing the immediate attention to authorities to get it solved for over 20 years, then some country with its leader should take a course on true crime solving, general etiquette and diplomacy. This was not a normal crime. If it was a handful of jewels one could understand, but 200 lbs. worth?! I think that FedEx or whichever sender the joker used should be investigate heavily too. How can a single guy smuggle 200 lbs. of jewels without any help?

2) ...stole jewellery worth US$20 million (Bt611.5 million)...

Okay, so the journalist can't be blamed for this figure, but even if it was back in 1989 I think it's way off. Just the blue diamond alone was probably worth 2-3 times that because of its rarity (heirloom of the House of Saud). And what is the 2010 adjusted worth for these royal jewels, let alone 200 lbs.?! Ridiculous. The weight and amount stolen alone makes Thailand look like a bunch of jackasses. Just the heist of the blue diamond alone should be a reason to solve this case quickly.

3) The then-crime buster Lt-General Chalor Kerdthes became an instant celebrity for solving the heist.

You must be kidding?! Any dick-head could solve the heist. So darn easy to track from within the palace walls, list of servants, recent or sudden departures from employment, etc. They already knew who did it. My dog could've solved it while lickin' his balls. Bunch of self righteous, self serving idiots. If anything the Lt-General should get his ass-kicked for passing the fake jewels back, or being a party to it.

4) ...swiftly arrested in his hometown in Lampang and sentenced to five years in jail.

This Kriengkrai jerk should still be in jail until all the jewels are returned. What a slap in the face to get only 5 years in jail! He should get at least 1-year in jail per one pound of jewels. The presiding judge should've been reprimanded heavily.

For retribution and satisfaction, and to take it to how things are REALLY done in Thailand, the Saudis should just start taking the laws into their own hands on Thai soil. Since it seems that all key players were killed 20 years ago, the Saudis should just start eliminating who they know is a part of the whole scheme, one by one. And use a very, very dull knife. If they're ever caught, just claim 'diplomatic immunity'.

Interesting points...the sad part of the whole story is that due to the avarice of no doubt some "influential" people or person, who is in possession of said missing jewels, poor labouring class Thais have been prevented from working, and thus earning a decent living, in Saudia Arabia for going on 20 years. At the time of the theft, SA was the top destination for Thai foreign workers.

Of course, said "influentials" couldn't care less about this fact.

Sounds more like 200 million back then and more like 500 mil today.

I am rather surprised the Saudi's haven't done some obvious clandestine stuff to get this back.

Where royal jewels are concerned the gloves usually come off.

Then again the Elgin Marbles were finally returned via nearly a century of diplomatic moves.

Granted the Marbles couldn't have just been stuck in a suitcase and brought back.

[cloudhopper]

I am rather surprised the Saudi's haven't done some obvious clandestine stuff to get this back.

If the Saudis were doing clandestine stuff why are you surprised that it wouldn't be obvious?

[cloudhopper]

These were royal jewels if memory serves, and for that memories go on for centuries.

It's interesting to note that Saudi Arabia was the only monarchy (other than Nepal which was in the process of being de-kinged) to not participate in the 60th year accession ceremony.

[mca]

I am rather surprised the Saudi's haven't done some obvious clandestine stuff to get this back.

Where royal jewels are concerned the gloves usually come off.

With the utter arrogance of being untouchable exhibited by a large section of the Thai " hierarchy " it would be an event if the Saudi's operated a Kidon-type team for a bit of eye for an eye.

Grimly amusing to see them shitting themselves that they were in fact very " touchable "

[wintermute]

does that justify the expression "stinking Arabs"?

Odoriferous Bedouins might have been more suitable.

Swarthy salacious saracens.