Characteristics Of Thai Violent Behaviour

[fanciman]

I often see posts of the following sort:

"...oh, watch out for them, if you upset him he will come back with a gang and beat you up..."

or

"...don't get into a fight in Thailand because even if you win they will get a group and attack you..."

or

"...if the Thais start fighting then they start killing people..."

I am curious about this and whether it is usually true.

Has anybody here personally experienced such things or do they believe it to be true?

Of course people coming back later with a bunch of their friends can happen anywhere but is it a real phenomenon here?

Surely it is not necessary to treat everybody here as though they are an inch away from murder? Do the men here relish the thought that they must be given consideration as a potential murderer or am i wildly misinformed?

And my apologies in advance if i have been expressed myself offensively.

[BambinA]

I am curious about this and whether it is usually true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

true in some part (true but not true..lol) ..AND its not stereotype ..

just try to stay away for some B@stard .. people around the world have good and bad..

actaully it depends on you too..if you keep yourself with nice people , it'd not have any prob ..

Regards

Bambi

[bangkokblue]

In general Thai men are culturally non-violent. However, on consumption of alcohal fighting amongst themselves is most common which can often result in severe injury and even death. Falang-thai related incidents are of the norm instigated by the falang, Your typical bigheaded, Know all, I got more than you type. Keeping face plays a big part in thai society so when in their backyard you play by their rules. It is afterall a third world country.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

I often see posts of the following sort:

"...oh, watch out for them, if you upset him he will come back with a gang and beat you up..."

or

"...don't get into a fight in Thailand because even if you win they will get a group and attack you..."

or

"...if the Thais start fighting then they start killing people..."

I am curious about this and whether it is usually true.

Has anybody here personally experienced such things or do they believe it to be true?

Of course people coming back later with a bunch of their friends can happen anywhere but is it a real phenomenon here?

Surely it is not necessary to treat everybody here as though they are an inch away from murder? Do the men here relish the thought that they must be given consideration as a potential murderer or am i wildly misinformed?

And my apologies in advance if i have been expressed myself offensively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fanciman,

I certainly wouldn't put everyone in Thailand into that catergory but there does seem to be (to me at any rate) a propensity for things to escalate out of control here quite quickly.

I'll give you an example: My wife and I have a small general store here and recently we had some new people move in next door. There are 2 brothers and their mother and one brother (the eldest) has his young daughter living there as well (she is probably about 7 or 8y/o).

One night the eldest guy had gone out on the p#ss and while he was out his daughter awoke and started crying and screaming as he wasn't there. His mother and youngest brother had been up for a couple of hours trying to settle her down without much success.

He arrived home and immediately a large argument broke out between himself and the younger sibbling and in a very short time things got nasty. I was outside having a couple of drinks with a friend and trying to ignore it all when the boys mother started screaming.

Not knowing much Thai at all and being loathe to get involved in peoples domestic disputes especially when they don't speak english I never the less accompanied my friend next door to see what was going on.

I arrived to see the eldest brother trying to stab the youngest brother with a large carving knife and the only thing in between was their mother who was holding the eldest back (and failing) with the daughter watching and screaming in the background.

I grabbed the guy from behind all the while trying to tell him to calm down (which was a bit difficult to do) and managed to hold him down while my friend took the knife off him.

He was eventually convinced by some people he knew who turned up to see what all the commotion was about to leave and go to the karaoke bar down the road.

I was finally told that it was all over the youngest giving the eldest a bit of lip over him not being at home to look after his daughter. There were other issues that were bought up as well but that was the instigating one.

I was stunned that something could escalate that quickly and with that sort of severe reaction. There was no fist fight it was srtaight to the knife department.

Maybe I've been leading too sheltered a life but someone would have to do something atrocious to me or my family before I'd even consider a knife let alone picking one up.

So I guess I don't think that everyone is an inch away from murder but I do think things get out of control here a lot more quickly than I'm certainly used to anyway but to clear up any misconceptions I haven't personally had any problems here at all with anyone with regard to threats, violence etc even the guy next door had no problem with me when it was all over.

[Beachcomber]

I agree with what has been said before and can only emphasize DO NOT get involved with local Thai disputes. You as Farang will NEVER be accepted and any interference no matter how logical to us will never be accepted or even tolerated.

Keep out of it

[britmaveric]

I think their is more than enough evidence to support hot headed Thai behaviour when they get into a dispute with farang.

-Face is extremely important and wouldnt underestimate it when a Thai feels slighted.

[siamesekitty]

Reminds me of a Thai saying "ลูกผู้ชายฆ่ากันได้ หยามกันไม่ได้" (luk poochai kha gan dai yaam gan mai dai) : You can kill a man, but you can't look down on him.

[Nam Kao]

Thais are generally peaceful , add alcohol - look out!

[Neeranam]

I agree with what has been said before and can only emphasize DO NOT get involved with local Thai disputes. You as Farang will NEVER be accepted and any interference no matter how logical to us will never be accepted or even tolerated.

Keep out of it

Here hear! In most circumstances. It is very hard to do sometimes, but I got involved once with a guy trying to drunkenly hit his wife and believe me it wasn't worth the bother - she ended up hitting me!

[ya5702]

I often see posts of the following sort:

"...oh, watch out for them, if you upset him he will come back with a gang and beat you up..."

or

"...don't get into a fight in Thailand because even if you win they will get a group and attack you..."

or

"...if the Thais start fighting then they start killing people..."

I am curious about this and whether it is usually true.

Has anybody here personally experienced such things or do they believe it to be true?

Of course people coming back later with a bunch of their friends can happen anywhere but is it a real phenomenon here?

Surely it is not necessary to treat everybody here as though they are an inch away from murder? Do the men here relish the thought that they must be given consideration as a potential murderer or am i wildly misinformed?

And my apologies in advance if i have been expressed myself offensively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[paulbkk]

yes i agree thais are generally peaceful but their are many mainly family feuds, which can grow and clause problems, generally dont get involved but if something serious is happening anyone in their right mind would have to take action, thailand is very safe for us farangs, its certainly more safe than western countries, im sad to see many westerns treat thailand the same as other holiday destinations

[loong]

I have only ever seen 2 Thai / farang incidents in my time in Thailand.

First 1 was when a farang left a bar after not bar-fining a bargirl and she got annoyed. She called over a motorcycle tai driver had a word and the next thing the taxi man was punching and kicking the farang. I have no idea what the girl said to the Thai man.

The punches seemed to have little effect on the farang and he walked away without retaliating.

The 2nd time was again a motorcycle taxi man who drove straight at a farang and stopped just b4 running him down. Farang got angry at this antagonistic SOB and gave him a little shove as he sidestepped and walked away. Next thing, motorbike parked and farang was attacked from behind. Farang knocked him down and walked away. Farang attacked from behind again. Farang gave Thai a real pasting and walked away.

Both of these were in Pattaya. I am sure that I would have seen a lot worse in any city in UK.

These incidents are very isolated, generally I have never felt threatened in Thailand. I'm sure it must be one of the safest places in the world.

[ya5702]

Thais, like most Asians, are ruled by the heart, not the head.

[BambinA]

Thais, like most Asians, are ruled by the heart, not the head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are as smart as i supposed indeed ,mate

Bambi

[Bentley 7]

Thais are generally peace loving people particularly with the buddhism aspect of their culture is a great detterant to extreme violence -this beleif that if you do wrong, wrong will come back to you.

However, you are correct in your assumptions that when they blow they really blow.

In my humble opinion I believe that it has a lot to do with three aspects of thai culture

1.This "mai pen rai" (its all ok) attitude, yes it is a great way to be in life yet for example in the west and other parts of the world when something occurs thats not right or just, people vent their anger or disgust or disagreement verbally and physically (ranting and raving -maybe even kicking something) which seems to have a beneficial effect not only in letting the other person know your feelings but also provides some comfort in the form of a release. Often with a thai this has to be bottled inside and taken like a bitter pill stored inside so when something occurs to set them off, then it is like an explosion of pent up anger and negativity.

2.The majority of thais in their day to day lives suffer a great deal due to such cultural issues as the class system and this keeping face concept, they are mistreated and exploited at work, they are put down and humiliated from others who believe that they are superior due to their wealth and or skin colour, even where they were born geographically this all takes a toll on the psyche. How would you feel if you lived in an average thai's shoes for a day? You cant complain about anything, you essentially have few rights and most of the time you just have to smile and take it. It wouldnt be long until you blew up.

3.This ostentatious and often shameless displays of wealth while others have barely enough to eat, really eats away at the souls of most thais. This tacky show of wealth which is linked to a person being superior or better in their minds and then its continually forced down the throats of the have-not's like a big shit sandwich destroying innocent hope and faith in a better future for those who werent fortunate enough to be born with a silver spoon in their asses. It sends out a message that if you werent born with money or white skin etc you can work as hard as you want but you aint going to get anywhere in life.

Absolutely soul destroying stuff, imagine yourself being brought up with these social values. Would you be angry?

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

My opinion is that they like going into a ruck mob-handed and tooled-up in order to maximize the chances of winning.

Also the hot weather makes them grumpier, and they like to get bevoired on Thai whisky.

Edited July 22, 2005 by The_Eye_Of_Sauron

[fanciman]

That family knife fight is a telling example i think. From talking with Thais i get the impression that brothers and sisters here see each other as competitors to any inheritance, however small, and are often ruthlessly selfish about making sure they are the one to get everything.

The site of those terrible weapons on sale on the pavement stands near the entertainment districts is sobering. *somebody* has to be buying them or there wouldn't be so many on sale... Is it too much to hope they are all for export? That said, i have heard that even in europe now it is commonplace for youths to be equipped with knives during a night out and these will be used if there is a fight...

Drunken men...lethal weapons...pent up agression... not a healthy combination

[bkkmadness]

The site of those terrible weapons on sale on the pavement stands near the entertainment districts is sobering. *somebody* has to be buying them or there wouldn't be so many on sale

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you'll find they are on sale for the farangs

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

The knuckledusters?

They are only dangerous if used to punch someone with.

[350torana]

I think it would be foolish to get involved in a Thai domestic. Unless it is your own family.

An example ...mother-in-law was trying to lame claim to the my wife's house( her grandmother left it to my wife , all documented) bicht-in law goes crazy and slaps my wife and trys to yank the roots out of her hair . It might sound corny, but i got out the hose and turned it on the catfight . All this with a two year old watching

Funny the next day, everything went back to normal

[chaiyapoon]

Have seen too many incedents.Some of the worst at late night concerts in the villages of Isaan.Once the young lads get liqoured up you know why the security people(usually poo yai and his mates)have pump action shotguns.Brawls start up quickly and a free for all starts with twenty + involved in seconds it only takes one with a knife and several are cut.I'm gone,could easily turn on the farang next.In the morning the talk is about who got slashed or once even killed.These concerts are on almost weekly at certain times of the year.All the local villages go with bigger ones having several thousand spectators.Trouble starts when the families drift away after midnight.Lots of kids have weapons hidden away in the darkness and undergrowth ready for trouble.Tempers flare quickly.

On Koh Chang I regret to say I once watched a young thai man beating his girlfriend so bad I thought he would kill her.He had a mate with him who just casually watched.I was restrained by the person I was with,and told I would have the two of them and likely her as well attack me if I helped.

Seen many incedents in Pattaya as well.Never ever get involved.Thai jails and hospitals are there if you do.

[CarlBkk]

3.This ostentatious and often shameless displays of wealth while others have barely enough to eat, really eats away at the souls of most thais. This tacky show of wealth which is linked to a person being superior or better in their minds and then its continually forced down the throats of the have-not's like a big shit sandwich destroying innocent hope and faith in a better future for those who werent fortunate enough to be born with a silver spoon in their asses. It sends out a message that if you werent born with money or white skin etc you can work as hard as you want but you aint going to get anywhere in life.

Absolutely soul destroying stuff, imagine yourself being brought up with these social values. Would you be angry?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably the best description of class difference I've ever heard. I would just love to hack www.hisoparty.com (I think that's the site) and paste it up there in Thai.

But my argument would be do the lower classes no any different? Do they know the hi-sos are looking down on them unreasonably or have they been used to inequality in all senses for many generations? Why do we see few examples of them taking it out on the hi-sos?

I do think that the violence is less of pent-up anger and more of a "scared to be embarrassed, drunk, low social mentality, boredom" combination. The same combinations often cause violence in any country, only that the less developed countries don't "think" so much about the value of life/consequences/limits.

[Nam Kao]

Excellent advice Chaiyapoon

[snoophound]

yeah it aint limited to thais!!

ask any policeman or read your local gossip rag.

3.This ostentatious and often shameless displays of wealth while others have barely enough to eat, really eats away at the souls of most thais. This tacky show of wealth which is linked to a person being superior or better in their minds and then its continually forced down the throats of the have-not's like a big shit sandwich destroying innocent hope and faith in a better future for those who werent fortunate enough to be born with a silver spoon in their asses. It sends out a message that if you werent born with money or white skin etc you can work as hard as you want but you aint going to get anywhere in life.

Absolutely soul destroying stuff, imagine yourself being brought up with these social values. Would you be angry?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably the best description of class difference I've ever heard. I would just love to hack www.hisoparty.com (I think that's the site) and paste it up there in Thai.

But my argument would be do the lower classes no any different? Do they know the hi-sos are looking down on them unreasonably or have they been used to inequality in all senses for many generations? Why do we see few examples of them taking it out on the hi-sos?

I do think that the violence is less of pent-up anger and more of a "scared to be embarrassed, drunk, low social mentality, boredom" combination. The same combinations often cause violence in any country, only that the less developed countries don't "think" so much about the value of life/consequences/limits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sua yai]

A pervious poster mentioned issan late night revelries.

A few years ago I was up country for the funerals of my ex's husband and father. A three day party. On the main day there were around 200 professional musicains and dancers performing in front of @2,000 people.

Around midnight we heard two loud bangs and thought someone had let off those big fireworks late.

Turned out that a young Thai lad had got on the stage and asked the compere to get one of his friends to meet him just around the corner of the house. The friend was shot twice in the head.

Police turned up the next day - that's when we farangs first realised what had happened. They were only looking for witnesses. The shooter had turned himself in straight away.

The overall atmosphere was of mai pen rai. The body had been taken away, the culprit was in custody. Get on with the party.

My friends and I were not quite so laid back with the experience.

Drinking+raging testosterone levels+access to a firearm+argument over a girl = one dead teenager. Sad.

[loong]

A pervious poster mentioned issan late night revelries.

I hope theis is a typo sua yai

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

I think it would be foolish to get involved in a Thai domestic. Unless it is your own family.

An example ...mother-in-law was trying to lame claim  to the my wife's house( her grandmother left it to my wife , all documented) bicht-in law goes crazy and slaps my wife and trys to yank the roots out of her hair . It might sound corny, but i got out the hose and turned it on the catfight . All this with a two year old watching 

Funny the next day, everything went back to normal 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah 350Torana it was the same with the family next door. The next day it was if it never happened. I'm not sure which part scared me the most, the knife or the casual indifference after the fact.

My wife did try calling the cops but they obviously did'nt want anything to do with it as no-one turned up.

My biggest worry is not someone perpetrating something against me directly but indirectly getting caught up in someone elses fight/argument and not being able to get out of the way.

[Heng]

I think that most (certainly not all) falang contact with the locals would be the equivalent of one living in the ghetto in many western countries. So yes, you'll see a 'substantial' amount of senseless violence. That said, you also have a larger segment of lower (in socio- economic status, not lower as in "not as good") classes here, so it's not strange to expect to see more of this type of behaviour.

On the other hand, it's certainly not something just limited to the poor. On the other end of the spectrum (I feel like this at times myself) you can't help but get the impression that life is simply cheaper here (along with everything else). I recall a worker (out of a crew of about 15 guys I guess) falling off some scaffolding while painting one of our warehouses and dying. You know what his family asked for in compensation? 10,000 Baht. Is it our place to teach them that no... you should take us (or perhaps the construction foreman) to court and sue us for millions (not that a price of millions on a life makes people any more civilized in my opinion)? You see all the cases of people getting killed by drunk drivers or irresponsible driving. When they start talking in terms of 1-5 million Baht (a real pittance really at what... $25-125k USD?) in compensation, most everyday people say "oh, that's outrageous... no life is worth that much..." Ever try to get a multimillion $ life insurance policy here? They don't exist (unless you have a package custom made for you) as far I have seen. You're better off shopping in the west for insurance where this level of coverage is not so out of the ordinary. Anyway, seeing all of this, you'll have some bad things go down. Plenty of bad apples out there know that if you know the right people, have enough funding, etc...... at the end of the day, lives aren't worth that much.

[kat]

Thais are generally peace loving people particularly with the buddhism aspect of their culture is a great detterant to extreme violence -this beleif that if you do wrong, wrong will come back to you.

However, you are correct in your assumptions that when they blow they really blow.

In my humble opinion I believe that it has a lot to do with three aspects of thai culture

1.This "mai pen rai" (its all ok) attitude, yes it is a great way to be in life yet for example in the west and other parts of the world when something occurs thats not right or just, people vent their anger or disgust or disagreement verbally and physically (ranting and raving -maybe even kicking something) which seems to have a beneficial effect not only in letting the other person know your feelings but also provides some comfort in the form of a release. Often with a thai this has to be bottled inside and taken like a bitter pill stored inside so when something occurs to set them off, then it is like an explosion of pent up anger and negativity.

2.The majority of thais in their day to day lives suffer a great deal due to such cultural issues as the class system and this keeping face concept, they are mistreated and exploited at work, they are put down and humiliated from others who believe that they are superior due to their wealth and or skin colour, even where they were born geographically this all takes a toll on the psyche. How would you feel if you lived in an average thai's shoes for a day? You cant complain about anything, you essentially have few rights and most of the time you just have to smile and take it. It wouldnt be long until you blew up.

3.This ostentatious and often shameless displays of wealth while others have barely enough to eat, really eats away at the souls of most thais. This tacky show of wealth which is linked to a person being superior or better in their minds and then its continually forced down the throats of the have-not's like a big shit sandwich destroying innocent hope and faith in a better future for those who werent fortunate enough to be born with a silver spoon in their asses. It sends out a message that if you werent born with money or white skin etc you can work as hard as you want but you aint going to get anywhere in life.

Absolutely soul destroying stuff, imagine yourself being brought up with these social values. Would you be angry?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well stated. I think you laid out major factors in the class/caste dynamic, however it is not the whole story, because violence among hi-so is different; they hire others to carry out their murders. I think it is a lot of What HENG also stated, but my own observations also include the history of the region and a culture of authoritarianism.

[Axel]

Drunken Traffic Cop Beaten By Restaurant Customers

Pattaya Forum george 2005-07-23 13:10:55

Bar Girl Stabs Frenchman For Throwing Beer Bottle

Pattaya Forum george 2005-07-23 13:08:59

American Attacked By Sukhumvit Bartender, Intensive-care after smashed in the head

Thailand News Clippings george 2005-07-23 13:47:34

Above topics appeared today between 1:08 and 1:48 pm.

Seems in all three incidents alcohol involved.