Human Rights Lawyers Condemn English Tests For Spouses Coming To Uk

[potter09]

Human rights lawyers condemn English tests for spouses coming to UK

Please see follow link below:

http://www.guardian....s-english-tests

[VisasPlus]

It is interesting. It will also be interesting to see what happens as this kind of legislation already exists in at least two other EU countries - Germany and Netherlands. They have similar tests, but I have no idea if the legislation has ever been tested in the Euroean courts.

[bobrussell]

I am broadly in favour of a test of basic competence in English but feel this was introduced in rather a hurry, is not well thought out and seems draconian. It is also very expensive for what is offered.

A little more thought and less knee-jerk reaction would have been sensible.

[VisasPlus]

I am broadly in favour of a test of basic competence in English but feel this was introduced in rather a hurry, is not well thought out and seems draconian. It is also very expensive for what is offered.

A little more thought and less knee-jerk reaction would have been sensible.

I have my own views, but would be interested to know what you mean by " not well thought out " and " very expensive". What do you know for the cost ?

[Stanaris]

I am broadly in favour of a test of basic competence in English but feel this was introduced in rather a hurry, is not well thought out and seems draconian. It is also very expensive for what is offered.

A little more thought and less knee-jerk reaction would have been sensible.

I have my own views, but would be interested to know what you mean by " not well thought out " and " very expensive". What do you know for the cost ?

I am at a loss to know why anyone should object to this test. Personally I have believed for many years that anyone wanting to live in the UK should be able to understand and speak English. My wife who is Thai, is looking forward to using the English she has learnt when she comes to the UK. I believe it has given her so much more confidence, which of course helps fitting in with the local community, so I look at the test in a positive light.

[VisasPlus]

I am broadly in favour of a test of basic competence in English but feel this was introduced in rather a hurry, is not well thought out and seems draconian. It is also very expensive for what is offered.

A little more thought and less knee-jerk reaction would have been sensible.

I have my own views, but would be interested to know what you mean by " not well thought out " and " very expensive". What do you know for the cost ?

I am at a loss to know why anyone should object to this test. Personally I have believed for many years that anyone wanting to live in the UK should be able to understand and speak English. My wife who is Thai, is looking forward to using the English she has learnt when she comes to the UK. I believe it has given her so much more confidence, which of course helps fitting in with the local community, so I look at the test in a positive light.

I'm not sure that the article actually objects to a test. I think the objection is that the test must be taken before a spouse can come to the UK. The article mentions the Human Rights legislation that gives the right to family life. But, the government appears to be saying that you have the right to family life, ie. to join your family in the UK, but you only have that right if you can speak English. But, the proviso that the joining spouse must speak English applies only to spouses and partners from certain countries, and there is a perception that this is unfair and discriminatory. A lot of countries allow spouses to join their partner, but insist on a language qualification if the joining partner wants permanent residence at some future time. Nobody seems to have any argument with that. The language proviso for residence applies here in Thailand also, but we don't have to take any language test to join our spouse.

As I said in my earlier post, I have my own views on the test, and those views are both for and against the test.

[Desertexile]

Im all for it - anyone coming to the UK should be an asset. Indeed, anyone living in a foreign country should learn the lingo

[potter09]

The link below is a petition online in relation to this issue with some compelling arguments against the introduction of this test.

http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/no-to-pre-entry-english-tests-for-spouses-of-uk-citizens/200

[Thongkorn]

If the tables were turned , how many falang would learn Thai, My wife is on an ISOL course to learn how to read and write in English, There are People on the same course who have lived in the Uk for teens of years , yet cannot speak English , some even born in the UK,

[the scouser]

It's just another money-making ruse under the auspices of promoting "private enterprise"; i.e. jobs for the boys.

The test is at the lowest level (A1 of CEFR), which would perhaps equate to a farang being able to say, "Sawadee khap. Sabai dee mai? Wan nee ahgaht rawn, noh?" in Thai.

It serves no useful purpose, but will deprive the visa applicant (or the sponsor) of an additional 200 notes.

Scouse.

[JohnLeech]

If the tables were turned , how many falang would learn Thai,..........

Probably quite a few if it meant that they would have similar rights to someone marrying a Brit and moving to the UK, such as the right of permanent residence, to own land, to apply for a Thai passport if they wanted to,.etc.

Unfortunately the tables being turned is not an option.

[7by7]

will deprive the visa applicant (or the sponsor) of an additional 200 notes.

I am interested in the cost you quote. I have been unable to find the cost of taking this test in Thailand (or anywhere). Do you mean baht or pounds? Where did you get this cost from?

[7by7]

Post deleted (and response to it) as is a duplicate of this one.

Please do not make duplicate posts across the forum.

[the scouser]

.... Where did you get this cost from?

I'm involved in the 'industry', so the cost is something that has become known to me through my enquiries. It may vary between £120.00 and £200.00, depending upon the contractor chosen.

Perhaps TV can expect some advertising enquiries soon?

Scouse.

[paully]

It serves no useful purpose, but will deprive the visa applicant (or the sponsor) of an additional 200 notes.

And, of course, Scouse, it gives the appearance that the coalition government is 'doing something about' immigration.

[bobrussell]

It serves no useful purpose, but will deprive the visa applicant (or the sponsor) of an additional 200 notes.

And, of course, Scouse, it gives the appearance that the coalition government is 'doing something about' immigration.

I don't consider it serves no purpose but it is another expense at a time that the UKBA is taking a lot of money for visa applications together with the other costs in relocating. It has been introduced very quickly and the details of the actual requirements were only made public recently. This has not given applicants much time to prepare for the exam.

Basic English language skills are already required before ILR can be granted.

I would have considered this requirement more acceptable if a longer period was given before its introduction rather than rushing it through.

It will not do anything about immigration just makes it more expensive!

[7by7]

I'm involved in the 'industry', so the cost is something that has become known to me through my enquiries. It may vary between £120.00 and £200.00, depending upon the contractor chosen.

Thanks for that. Is this the sort of cost worldwide, or just Thailand?

It serves no useful purpose, but will deprive the visa applicant (or the sponsor) of an additional 200 notes.

And, of course, Scouse, it gives the appearance that the coalition government is 'doing something about' immigration.

I think that this was actually first mooted by the previous government, the coalition have just brought it's introduction forward. I may be wrong, though.

[electau]

The difference between the proposed level of English that is required by the UK for a spouse is for permanent residence applications.

Eg, Australia requires a level of English for citizenship, not for permanent residence. Australia gives government sponsored English language tuition of 510 hours free to all migrants after they arrive in the country.

Permanent residence is not the same as citizenship.

Citizenship is encouraged in Australia, in the UK it would appear it is not to the same extent.

[7by7]

This new test for the initial out of country application is very basic; there is already in place a knowledge of life and language in the UK requirement for indefinite leave to remain, which is at a higher level than this new test.

Whether the UK encourages citizenship or not is a matter of opinion; but once one has ILR it is relatively easy to obtain.

[bangkockney]

.... Where did you get this cost from?

I'm involved in the 'industry', so the cost is something that has become known to me through my enquiries. It may vary between £120.00 and £200.00, depending upon the contractor chosen.

Perhaps TV can expect some advertising enquiries soon?

Scouse.

Applicants can simply sit the TOEIC test which costs only 1,200 Baht in Thailand.

[bkk_mike]

If everyone emigrating to the UK was treated the same, then I'd be OK with it.

But the absurdity is, it only applies to spouses of British Citizens. It doesn't apply to spouses of other nationalities that have the right of abode in the UK (i.e. Anyone from the rest of the EU/EEA).

i.e. A Swede married to a Thai can immigrate to the UK with no English tests required for either of them, but a Brit married to a Thai - the Thai spouse has to pass an English test.

i.e. The spouse of a Brit is treated WORSE than the spouse of someone from anywhere else in the EU. - Hardly "fair"...

[7by7]

I should point out:-

• You and your, presumably, Thai partner have exactly the same right to live in any other EU country that you complain of.
• This, and any other requirement of the immigration rules regarding settlement, does not just apply to partners of British citizens, but to the partners of any settled person, regardless of that person's nationality; unless they are applying under the EU rules.

The 'rights' and 'wrongs' of the UK's EU membership and legal obligation to comply with EU regulations and laws is a long and complex subject, and this forum is not the place to discuss it.

What I will say, though, is that the 'guarantee' that membership of what was then the EEC would not affect the UK's sovereignty in any way, that we were simply joining a free trade common market, caused myself and many others to vote 'yes' in 1974.

What fools we were to believe politicians!

[bangkockney]

.... Where did you get this cost from?

I'm involved in the 'industry', so the cost is something that has become known to me through my enquiries. It may vary between £120.00 and £200.00, depending upon the contractor chosen.

Perhaps TV can expect some advertising enquiries soon?

Scouse.

Can you clarify what you mean? There is no new test that has been designed, they have simply set a minimum level of English such as with Tier 4 applications.

Why so cloak and dagger about the source of your info?

Applicants can sit any English test that is recognised by the UKBA, so am slightly confused - your post suggests the creation of a brand new testing system, which isn't the case.