Living In A Village Advise Please

[snoophound]

The dream and the reality.

If you want to live in a village,whats wrong with one at home??

Its amazing the wallet lightening strategies that falangs fall for in thailand.

Is it the heat?Is it the lust?The booze??

Ask yourself would you suport all the poor people in your home village?

Or does conscience bother you that you are a have where the have nots have o much less.

So much of these examples defy logic.

If you are planning on staying in thailand get an apt near the beach and golf courses,try not to have a live in and enjoy life, in the sun at 30% of the living cost back home.

I have lived in a village in Isaan and I know that if you are considering it you have to be very strong willed, you have to be prepared to stand firm.

My gf at that time made huge amounts of food every morning and there were a steady stream of people came to eat thruoughout the day. I didn.t mind this at all, anyone was welcome to come and eat with us.

But alcohol, different matter. If the locals knew or suspected that I had alcohol in the house, they would turn up any time of day and night and attempt to empty your stock.

I'm not a heavy drinker and eventually I got the message thru to them that They could have a drink with me, but only when I wanted to drink.

Problem is that it is very tiring, a constant battle of wills.

On a few occasions I was invited out for the day with some of the locals. This would end up with 15 or 20 people in the back of a pick-up and I was expected to pay for everybody's food and the fuel for the pick=up.

Many of the problems I encountered have been posted by others, so will not repeat them. I have seen nothing posted that I can dispute.

Eventually, by standing firm, you will get things sorted, but you will probably find it quite a mental strain.

The last straw for me was the gf's sister and her husband. They were gamblers ( a major disease in Isaan) and were constantly in debt. They borrowed money from a couple in the village and I paid it back for them. It started at a few thousand every month, but ended up that I was paying off in excess of 30,000 Baht every month and rising.

Now, I know that most of you are now thinking " what - is he crazy?"

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

I realised that I was in an impossible situation as I could not continue to throw money down this drain. I could see no end to it. Heartbreaking as it was, I had to just walk away. What could I do?

I am now with a different girl and living in a village in Phrae in the North of Thailand. Here, as in all of Thailand, there are elements of the Isaan experience, but not so difficult to cope with. Now I have a good life and am very happy.

I can say one thing though. If I had to set up home with a new girl in the future ( I hope not and have no such intention), I would NEVER set up in the Gf's home village again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Boo]

It's not just farang who get taken advantage by piss taking neighbours, the MIL now needs a coin operated phone as some neighbours frequently come into the house & then ask if they can make a local call and call other provinces, children in bkk etc & she ( a widow looking after hubbys 2 nieces) can't afford to pay the large bill when it comes in & as other said, she doesn't want to cause a scene by telling them to bugger off! The amount of times he has called & the line has been cut off is plenty & she then has now way of contacting him to ask for extra money to pay the bill! He usually then has to call around to his friends & one of them goes to the house & pays the bill for her!!!

My experience in the village was more of being a monkey in the zoo than a cash cow, western women are few & far between in rural issan so I was prodded & talked about more than asked for money. Hubbys uncle in law even used to give me 100 baht every time we saw them as I was his neice & he wanted to take care of me as he thought I was na-rak & his other aunt, who wears bottle top glasses & is half blind has consistantly refused for us to buy her a new pair of googles so she can see better His friends all happily buy their fair share of drinks & another friend who has a resteraunt frequently invites us there for food & bottles of sang som Maybe the difference is that I am a women, so hubby is the boss (in their eyes ) & the one time a neighbour (a phone abuser) told me to give khun mare money, hubby stepped in & told her to back off.

Hubby & I had the "talk" about money to family in the first few months of our relationship & I made it clear to him that I didn't see why I was responsible for his family when I had my own & that I would be ok if he wanted to send them money he earnt providing we weren't short for our own bills & that agreement is in force today & it works. If he has extra cash, he sends it, what his mum does with it is up to her but the last lot he sent went to the repair of the roof

Thats said, neither myself or hubby will return to his home when our time int he UK is up as we like our privacy & as most of you know, that is an unknown concept in most faimily situations in LOS

[RamdomChances]

Those of you who have a good life in a village are the exception, not the rule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this true? I don't know enough farang who live in villages to judge this, are most people living in villages unhappy with their decision?

Ramdom always seems happy with his life up there amongst the cows and I expect a lot of others too but he is an others the exception to the rule?

Reckon a poll is needed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm very happy with my life here, the buisiness is going well, I recon I'm doing much better than if I had tried to start something in one of the tourist areas. I'm only about 2 hrs north of BKK, 3 from Pattaya, not really that difficult to get away if I want. Its not for everyone though, nearest supermarket 70 km, nearest falang about 40 km away.

What you have to remember is that a lot of people living out in the sticks wont even have an internet connection, so its probably a bit biased here.

I've read a lot about Issarn village life and to be honest most of it seems totaly alien to me, do you think that the saying "familarity breeds contempt" may have something to do with it? As there seem to be many more "falangs" living in or around Issarn then here in the central plain. Mabye its more ingrained there that one of the daughters will go off and find a falang to "take care" of the family. I've herd many stories of drunken parents, brothers ect, around here you dont really get that much as everyone is working through the day, if they dont work where does the money for bozze come from?

Look at most of the post's of people living in villages you've got Billd766 and mouse up in Kamphengpet, Spee about an hour north of me, bkkmadness"s Gf I belive is from Tak. You dont often see them posting anything bad about life in their villages. Same with Boon Mee and Tutsi is Supan.Matt don't you travel a lot between Supan and and Issarn, do you think there is a differance?

I'm not trying to be "anti Issarn" here just trying to get some sort of idea as to why there is such a wide gulf between posters.

Anyway as has been said already if someone is taking the p1ss just put your foot down you will never get any respect here by letting people walk all over you, especially from the men. Are you men or small cheese eating rodents

RC

[ozzydom]

Those of you who have a good life in a village are the exception, not the rule.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this true? I don't know enough farang who live in villages to judge this, are most people living in villages unhappy with their decision?

Ramdom always seems happy with his life up there amongst the cows and I expect a lot of others too but he is an others the exception to the rule?

Reckon a poll is needed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm very happy with my life here, the buisiness is going well, I recon I'm doing much better than if I had tried to start something in one of the tourist areas. I'm only about 2 hrs north of BKK, 3 from Pattaya, not really that difficult to get away if I want. Its not for everyone though, nearest supermarket 70 km, nearest falang about 40 km away.

What you have to remember is that a lot of people living out in the sticks wont even have an internet connection, so its probably a bit biased here.

I've read a lot about Issarn village life and to be honest most of it seems totaly alien to me, do you think that the saying "familarity breeds contempt" may have something to do with it? As there seem to be many more "falangs" living in or around Issarn then here in the central plain. Mabye its more ingrained there that one of the daughters will go off and find a falang to "take care" of the family. I've herd many stories of drunken parents, brothers ect, around here you dont really get that much as everyone is working through the day, if they dont work where does the money for bozze come from?

Look at most of the post's of people living in villages you've got Billd766 and mouse up in Kamphengpet, Spee about an hour north of me, bkkmadness"s Gf I belive is from Tak. You dont often see them posting anything bad about life in their villages. Same with Boon Mee and Tutsi is Supan.Matt don't you travel a lot between Supan and and Issarn, do you think there is a differance?

I'm not trying to be "anti Issarn" here just trying to get some sort of idea as to why there is such a wide gulf between posters.

Anyway as has been said already if someone is taking the p1ss just put your foot down you will never get any respect here by letting people walk all over you, especially from the men. Are you men or small cheese eating rodents

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see where your coming from RC, actually my wife is a lovely 40,ish lady who demands nothing from me and her family seem ok apart from ongoing family squabbles which dont concern me , When we were first married about 3 yrs ago her friends tried borrowing from us ,amounts varying from 5000 to 400,000 ,I just said tell them to give us security and I will consider it, well they had nothing of value to secure a loan so they were refused which led to a few teary sessions because my wife felt obligated as sometime in the way distant past they had done her a favour .In the end I told her to say Dom has no money to lend and now nobody asks. As Matt said things may be different if I lived in the village and they see that you you have a nice house ,car,motor bike etc, anyway I have decided I dont need the drama of finding out,thanks to the advice received here.

My poor mate on the other hand suffers brother in laws that wont even do a days work for him to pay off money they have borrowed. One even told him the other day after a disagreement to give him 20,000 bt and he would go away otherwise he and his wife and kids stay and eat his food forever.

Dunno how he keeps his hands off them cos he,s got a short fuse and fights like a machine,he,s a better man than me Gunga Din.(old Aussie saying)

[tutsiwarrior]

where we live is in a small town (small...big enough for its own hospital and tessaban) about 4 km away from the wife's village. Mama lives next door in an identical shop house and when people come to visit they go directly to her house. If I got a crate of Chang on the go I may pop over with a few bottles if I'm feeling sociable. Otherwise I rarely see any of the family and friends...just the younger kids who make themselves conspicuous whenever the ice cream man or the bbq chicken wings lady come round.

I've discussed building a new house on land in the village with the wife so I can have some garden space. The wife has been less than enthusiastic...she seems content with the present situation away from the village.

Maybe she knows something I don't...?

[loong]

Tutsiwarrior

Scuse my ignorance

What is a Tessaban?

[bkkmadness]

Look at most of the post's of people living in villages you've got Billd766 and mouse up in Kamphengpet, Spee about an hour north of me, bkkmadness"s Gf I belive is from Tak. You dont often see them posting anything bad about life in their villages. Same with Boon Mee and Tutsi is Supan.Matt don't you travel a lot between Supan and and Issarn, do you think there is a differance?

Just to clarify for some people here that dont know me, I don't live full time in the village yet, most times wish I did though! At the moment my experiences are pretty limited to a few days to a week up there every month. I haven't found any of the problems that have plagued a lot of the posters here though, but there is some differences between me and I expect many of the people that do.

One factor seems to be that I don't have a lot of cash, I don't have a house in a village or a car so no show of wealth.

Second factor here is that the village isn't in Issan, its not that I have any problem with Issan but of course its the poorest part of the country and people do need money more in those areas. The village where I go to is part of Tak, but Tak also has a town, so plenty of jobs and they have a river which provides food and irrigation for I think year round rice growing so although people up there are poor its certainly not to the level of some Issan villages. The people do have work everyday so though like every part of Thailand alcoholism is a problem I imagine its not as widespread a problem as in the poorer parts of the country.

Third factor is something Ramdom mentioned, the gfs Grandma is big boss in the area, nobody would dare cause me a problem and have to deal with her wrath.

I still think though that if I lived in the village, did have a nice house and car though I still would be able to deal with most situations. If you give people an inch, sure enough many of them will take a mile, don't let them take advantage of you.

Edited July 23, 2005 by bkkmadness

[Heng]

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

Important to note that these people ASK (and often whine/plead/beg) for a loan.

It's also hardly the norm that money lenders require your children as collateral. Most operate just like banks and require real estate (or at least automobiles or valuables such as jewerly or gold) as collateral. If and when you default, you simply lose your collateral. If these village innocents are dealing with unsecured lenders, they already know that they are dealing with the bottom of the barrel.

[tutsiwarrior]

loong...a tessaban is a government office complex, also a place where local people have large private celebrations and where during public holidays there may be a fun fair, outdoor entertainment, etc...

[bkkmadness]

The last straw for me was the gf's sister and her husband. They were gamblers ( a major disease in Isaan) and were constantly in debt. They borrowed money from a couple in the village and I paid it back for them. It started at a few thousand every month, but ended up that I was paying off in excess of 30,000 Baht every month and rising.

Now, I know that most of you are now thinking " what - is he crazy?"

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

I realised that I was in an impossible situation as I could not continue to throw money down this drain. I could see no end to it. Heartbreaking as it was, I had to just walk away. What could I do?

Not being rude or anything here but I would have to have checked that situation out for myself, maybe you did?

Sounds like a great scam, tug at your heart strings to get the cash from you. All you need to do is invent a debt and a a couple of thugs you owe the cash to. Especially strange the money went up from a few thousand to 30000 plus a month, sounds to me like they tried it on to start with, got a result and continued the scam with higher amounts.

Sorry if that sounds harsh and as I said maybe you fully checked the situation out and I could be wrong but that is the first thing I thought when I raed the post and I am not usually pessimistic about Thai people at all. In that case though with those amounts of money I would have definately investigated further and not just taken someones word for it.

Hey, don't worry, if it was a scam at least you know the daughter is safe.

ps. dont take my post the wrong way, it must've crossed your mind too right?

[Pattayatony]

After reading all this, now I know why cash & carry is best or some call it take away. To the guy who started this thread " If in doubt DON'T"

[gburns57au]

From the amounts of money I have seen being talked about, it is clear where the problems lie.....

Lets face it, if you flash your wealth around someone poorer will want to partake of some of it, anywhere in the world. If some of you guys had of been a bit more prudent to start with, you wouldnt have the trouble you have now.

I agree that you have to set the limits from the very start of your relationships, whether it be with the missus or with her family. Once you are seen as a soft touch it is hard to alter that perception. You have to be seen to be firm but fair.

To the guys that want to build huge walls around their houses.....Thai society especially in villages is an open house society...people will drop by all the time, (not always to bludge food, drink or money) By building the physical barriers you are also building social barriers...you are isolating yourself and telling the villagers that you dont want to be a part of their society. That is when the problems start.

In the times that I have been in villages, I have never experienced these problems, I think IMHO that it boils down to respect.....if they respect you as a person they will treat you as a part of the village...if they dont respect you, they will try and scam you, bludge of you and rip you off.

[loong]

I still think though that if I lived in the village, did have a nice house and car though I still would be able to deal with most situations. If you give people an inch, sure enough many of them will take a mile, don't let them take advantage of you.

This post has been edited by bkkmadness: Today, 2005-07-23 15:51

Yes, you probably will be able to deal with the situation.

But until you have actually experienced it, you will have no idea how it can affect you mentally or otherwise.

Most of us, when moving to a new country, want to enjoy our lives and not be forced into dealing with hassles.

Please don't read this as one of those "Until you have experienced it and know what you are talking about........." posts. That is not the intention.

Threads like this are very usefull as they warn the uninitiated what they can expect.

Overall, I enjoyed my time in an Isaan village, but based on my experiences, cannot recommend it too anyone except the most strong minded

[Gazza]

Live far enough away from inlaws etc to make them think twice about visiting you, that way you have privacy and only see the relos occasionaly.

I've had my Ma and Pa Inlaws living with me for the last 10 years at my own invite.

I don't bother them and they don't bother me (usually).

[loong]

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

Important to note that these people ASK (and often whine/plead/beg) for a loan.

It's also hardly the norm that money lenders require your children as collateral. Most operate just like banks and require real estate (or at least automobiles or valuables such as jewerly or gold) as collateral. If and when you default, you simply lose your collateral. If these village innocents are dealing with unsecured lenders, they already know that they are dealing with the bottom of the barrel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are not normal moneylenders, they target villagers with daughter(s) of the right age and then offer to 'help them out'. They continue to assist them with loans and then demand that it is repaid when they know it is impossible.

They then tell the borrowers that if they can't repay, then the daughter must go to work as a 'waitress' or something similar. They will arrange the job. The debt by this time is at a level that is impossible to be repaid by waitressing, but often the parents choose to believe this lie and hand over the daughter. The deal is often sweetened with an additional payment to the parents.

[loong]

The last straw for me was the gf's sister and her husband. They were gamblers ( a major disease in Isaan) and were constantly in debt. They borrowed money from a couple in the village and I paid it back for them. It started at a few thousand every month, but ended up that I was paying off in excess of 30,000 Baht every month and rising.

Now, I know that most of you are now thinking " what - is he crazy?"

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

I realised that I was in an impossible situation as I could not continue to throw money down this drain. I could see no end to it. Heartbreaking as it was, I had to just walk away. What could I do?

Not being rude or anything here but I would have to have checked that situation out for myself, maybe you did?

Sounds like a great scam, tug at your heart strings to get the cash from you. All you need to do is invent a debt and a a couple of thugs you owe the cash to. Especially strange the money went up from a few thousand to 30000 plus a month, sounds to me like they tried it on to start with, got a result and continued the scam with higher amounts.

Sorry if that sounds harsh and as I said maybe you fully checked the situation out and I could be wrong but that is the first thing I thought when I raed the post and I am not usually pessimistic about Thai people at all. In that case though with those amounts of money I would have definately investigated further and not just taken someones word for it.

Hey, don't worry, if it was a scam at least you know the daughter is safe.

ps. dont take my post the wrong way, it must've crossed your mind too right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right it could have been a scam, but it was apparent from their lifestyle change over a few months that they suddenly had money from somewhere. It was actually my gf who started to bail them out (unknown to me). I started to pay on the understanding that they would not borrow more. But of course the moneylenders continued to visit the house and offered to 'help'. They of course could not turn down the easy option, money for nothing. I was in the neighbouring house and sometimes saw them. I could have gone out and told them to p**s off, but believe me, these people, NObody talks to them like that, ony the really stupid.

Edited July 23, 2005 by loong

[ozzydom]

From the amounts of money I have seen being talked about, it is clear where the problems lie.....

Lets face it, if you flash your wealth around someone poorer will want to partake of some of it, anywhere in the world. If some of you guys had of been a bit more prudent to start with, you wouldnt have the trouble you have now.

I agree that you have to set the limits from the very start of your relationships, whether it be with the missus or with her family. Once you are seen as a soft touch it is hard to alter that perception. You have to be seen to be firm but fair.

To the guys that want to build huge walls around their houses.....Thai society especially in villages is an open house society...people will drop by all the time, (not always to bludge food, drink or money) By building the physical barriers you are also building social barriers...you are isolating yourself and telling the villagers that you dont want to be a part of their society. That is when the problems start.

In the times that I have been in villages, I have never experienced these problems, I think IMHO that it boils down to respect.....if they respect you as a person they will treat you as a part of the village...if they dont respect you, they will try and scam you, bludge of you and rip you off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Burnsy,I dont know whether you are offering advice or being facitious,do you infer that to live in a village you should live in an old thai baan and have an old bomb to get on with the locals?how long did you reside in a village? I only ask this to help ascertain whose advise is relevant.

I only spent a few months living in the village and on the surface reckoned that I could be happy there , the only downside I found were things I had no control over like getting up early in the morning to go down to the loo and having to step over half a dozen drunken sleeping mates of my step son, that type of thing plus keeping village animals out of my proposed garden was the thinking behind the concrete fence, do you really think that such a fence is a social barrier. You can always open the gate but how do you ensure your privacy when you want it.?

[Khutan]

<snip>Matt, what did you do?

Did you get it back?

I'd have exploded   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am still grinding my teeth. I am going to do nothing. Its prime use was an internet link, and the TV was secondary, when I got bored with the internet.

What am I going to do, nothing, The fools took the dish and the steering gear, but not the Server, which has the decoder and Tuner in it. Next time I go there I am going to pick up the server, and write it off.

I must say if I had my time again, I would have build some second rate single story place that you see alot of and purchased a Benz, rather than a pick-up. But I don't have that time again, so I will do something else with my money and avoid the place. It just makes me angry.

The final one is my wife wants me to build a full kitchen. I told her I was scared I was going to get angry because things will go missing, get broken or just left dirty. She said oh no, that won't happen. (This is a proper designer kitchen). I then said, well what about the pump. I didn't break it, I sent money for it to be fixed, and now I am going to have to disconnect it and take it to get repaired, the kitchen will be the same. That got a deafening silence.

BTW udon, I saw a friend of yours with some snail pellets today.

[Kathe]

Good hearted Farang, naived and has strong willing to help his T/W and her whole family. Understand this point. But before you deciding to live in her village, think twice or double twice before you invest your money. This is very interesting point of views. Earlier I have always wondering why many Farangs like to live in small villages, far away from civilization ( Internet, food, some Farangs friends to talk your language, rough life , and etc )

Better looking a nice location ( but far away from relations ) near the beach or anywhere else you like. If you two dont live for a long time in your house, let the house rented. Make the rule first for your own house. They shall respect if you have a rule and strong willing of your own privacy to live.

Understand the uncomfortable situation. Eventhough I am a thai woman, I would not like so many people walking in and out without telling first. And people should respect others privacy too. Let them ask for the allowance first , if things dont belong to them. Learn them to know the rules. So you will have a little peace to live by your own.

Unfortunatly, I do have big relations, but we seldom see anybody, we shall see, when somebody die or on a wedding party, then we shall meet each other, at the temples or in a hotel for the ceremony. But some good relations, we contact by phone and meeting somewhere on New Year or holiday some place together. It's better and more comfortable for each of us.

Think twice before you will settle down in a village.

[ozzydom]

Thank you Saothai

Good hearted Farang, naived and has strong willing to help his T/W and her whole family. Understand this point. But before you deciding to live in her village, think twice or double twice before you invest your money.  This is very interesting point of views.  Earlier I have always wondering why many Farangs like to live in small villages, far away from civilization ( Internet, food, some Farangs friends to talk your language, rough life , and etc )

Better looking a nice location ( but far away from relations ) near the beach or anywhere  else you like. If you two dont live for a long time in your house, let the house rented. Make the rule first for your own house. They shall respect if you have a rule and strong willing of your own privacy to live.

Understand the uncomfortable situation. Eventhough I am a thai woman, I would not like so many people walking in and out without telling first. And people should respect others privacy too. Let them ask for the allowance first , if things dont belong to them. Learn them to know the rules. So you will have a little peace to live by your own.

Unfortunatly, I do have big relations, but we seldom see anybody, we shall see, when somebody die or  on  a  wedding party, then we shall meet each other, at the temples or in a hotel for the ceremony. But some good relations, we contact by phone and meeting somewhere on New Year or holiday some place together. It's better and more comfortable for each of us.

Think twice before you will settle down in a village. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you Saothai for your kind advice from a thai point of view,it is much appreciated

[Heng]

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

Important to note that these people ASK (and often whine/plead/beg) for a loan.

It's also hardly the norm that money lenders require your children as collateral. Most operate just like banks and require real estate (or at least automobiles or valuables such as jewerly or gold) as collateral. If and when you default, you simply lose your collateral. If these village innocents are dealing with unsecured lenders, they already know that they are dealing with the bottom of the barrel.

These are not normal moneylenders, they target villagers with daughter(s) of the right age and then offer to 'help them out'. They continue to assist them with loans and then demand that it is repaid when they know it is impossible.

They then tell the borrowers that if they can't repay, then the daughter must go to work as a 'waitress' or something similar. They will arrange the job. The debt by this time is at a level that is impossible to be repaid by waitressing, but often the parents choose to believe this lie and hand over the daughter. The deal is often sweetened with an additional payment to the parents.

Have you met these money lenders yourself? I mean, you are actually 'on the scene' in this situation right? It sounds a bit strange. Hopefully not strange as in Thai fiction; about as creative as copying the plot of a soap opera and relaying it to you as fact.

I'd say I know this business rather well and haven't heard of this type of situation before. Sure, I've heard of plenty of situations where these kids move out and into prostitution to pay these debts on their own accord, and there are massage parlour/rao owners who are money lenders, but have yet to see pure bread and butter money lenders who help their debtors "work it off" in the way you are suggesting.

[Sir Burr]

I don't live in an Esaan village and never will, but my wife is from one. I have just related some of the stories on here to her.

She told me that it is the wife's responsibility to be strong and stop the people that are obviously taking the p1ss. She says that if the wife is not strong enough. then the farang husband should be. When I told her that most of the problems are in villages in Esaan and not in other places in Thailand, she fully understood and said that this is a problem particular to Esaarn and that most villages had people like this that would just suck you dry if you let them.

She thought the idea of living twenty or thirty kilometres away was a very good solution.

So, in conclusion, she says don't take any sh1t and b.ugger "face". She was most emphatic that the wife should be strong and not let this happen.

[bkkmadness]

I don't live in an Esaan village and never will, but my wife is from one. I have just related some of the stories on here to her.

She told me that it is the wife's responsibility to be strong and stop the people that are obviously taking the p1ss. She says that if the wife is not strong enough. then the farang husband should be.

So, in conclusion, she says don't take any sh1t and b.ugger "face". She was most emphatic that the wife should be strong and not let this happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dead right, wife or gf should be your first line of defence, and if they can't deal with it you should stick up for yourself.

I don't think its a case of "b.ugger face", I don't see what face you get by getting ripped off all the time and treated rudely.

I think the key point is to gain face in the village, get the respect deserved to you. This is gained by standing up for yourself in these situations, not getting treated like a mug, in fact much the same way you get 'face' in whatever part of the west you come from.

[bkkmadness]

I still think though that if I lived in the village, did have a nice house and car though I still would be able to deal with most situations. If you give people an inch, sure enough many of them will take a mile, don't let them take advantage of you.

This post has been edited by bkkmadness: Today, 2005-07-23 15:51

Yes, you probably will be able to deal with the situation.

But until you have actually experienced it, you will have no idea how it can affect you mentally or otherwise.

Most of us, when moving to a new country, want to enjoy our lives and not be forced into dealing with hassles.

Please don't read this as one of those "Until you have experienced it and know what you are talking about........." posts. That is not the intention.

Threads like this are very usefull as they warn the uninitiated what they can expect.

Overall, I enjoyed my time in an Isaan village, but based on my experiences, cannot recommend it too anyone except the most strong minded

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your absolutely right, I have never spent a long time in the villages, its just my observations so far, not just on village life but on Thai people in general and from what I have heard before and of course read here. I didn't take the post in a wrong way at all dude.

One thing that struck me in your post was the line

when moving to a new country

Moving to a new country, and a village all in one go, thats a hardcore culture change for some and it is not easy.

I think this effects many situations when people move to a Thai village without having spent lots of time in the rest of Thailand first. Many people holiday over here on the beaches and islands etc. and then move to live over here straight into a rural village starting a life which they have never experienced before.

Its hard enough settling into Thailand anyway, going from the 'holiday here stage to living here stage' without the extra inconveiences and hassles that you will often find in village life.

I've had an advantage of learning more about the Thais and culture whilst living in Bangkok, its easy to escape people in Bangkok and distance yourself from problem people. I think this will help me if I ever moved to a village in the future.

To move to a new country and learn the Thai ways and how to get around them in a small village must be a h.ell of a lot of stress, no escape, and if you get a problem with someone because you are new to Thailand and don't understand a bit of the culture of whatever you will still be living next to that person many years later. Unlike Bangkok where you part company and always have the chance to start afresh.

I suppose based on that observation then a top tip to anyone moving to Thailand full time that has previously only come over for short holiday periods, is to live in a big city or beach area for a while first, assimilate yourself into the Thai way of life and learn how to deal with the problems the Thai way first.

It is different from how we deal with things in the West and you do have to bend your ways and change your thinking to a certain degree. Better you learn that with a load of strangers in Bangkok or Phuket etc. first, than going through the whole process and making all the inevitable mistakes with family and long term neighbours.

If you walk into that village, can already speak a reasonable amount of the language, understand the traditions, understand the basic concepts of Jai Yen and all that then you already start with a fair amount of 'face', from there onwards its your future actions that denote how you are viewed and treated in the village but at least you've started on the right foot, and first impressions go a long way.

If on the other hand you walk into the village, can only speak the bar thai talk that we all seem to start with ("drunk already" and all that kind of stuff), don't know how to address people politely, start waiing to all and sundry including the village kids then some people, not all, but some people are going to think "whos this farang idiot? I reckon I can outsmart a few quid from him" and you'll get people trying it on with you that might otherwise keep their distance.

After you have gained experience then extend your visits up to the village more, start spending a month or so a time up there, get a feel for it, look out for any potential problems, and I'm not just talking a.sshole neighbours, but can you really stand the ins and outs of village life?

I know if I ever decided to move to Tak then I would spend a considerable amount of time up there first before buying a house up there, its a big decision, treat is as such.

Its different for all people I suppose, but thats just some of my own thoughts on the matter. Don't jump in straight away is my point I suppose.

And if your not bored with this long post yet here's another thought. I think people who have said move a distance away from the village are right. Not just from the privacy perspective but from a finance/real estate perspective. I'm sure that a big house in the country will always be easier to sell in the future than a big house in a village, especially if that village turns into a rubbish dump over the years. It just seems like a better investment to me in the long term as you will never know when you want to sell that property.

Ok, finished, I'm off to the sauna, someones left it on in the downstairs gym and that means I can jump in there quickly without paying.

[loong]

They had a pretty little 14 year old daughter and these moneylenders gave money to people who they knew would be unable to pay back. When the debt rose to a certain level, they would then demand that they take the daughter and she would work to pay off the debt. No prizes for guessing what work she would be doing.

Important to note that these people ASK (and often whine/plead/beg) for a loan.

It's also hardly the norm that money lenders require your children as collateral. Most operate just like banks and require real estate (or at least automobiles or valuables such as jewerly or gold) as collateral. If and when you default, you simply lose your collateral. If these village innocents are dealing with unsecured lenders, they already know that they are dealing with the bottom of the barrel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are not normal moneylenders, they target villagers with daughter(s) of the right age and then offer to 'help them out'. They continue to assist them with loans and then demand that it is repaid when they know it is impossible.

They then tell the borrowers that if they can't repay, then the daughter must go to work as a 'waitress' or something similar. They will arrange the job. The debt by this time is at a level that is impossible to be repaid by waitressing, but often the parents choose to believe this lie and hand over the daughter. The deal is often sweetened with an additional payment to the parents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you met these money lenders yourself? I mean, you are actually 'on the scene' in this situation right? It sounds a bit strange. Hopefully not strange as in Thai fiction; about as creative as copying the plot of a soap opera and relaying it to you as fact.

I'd say I know this business rather well and haven't heard of this type of situation before. Sure, I've heard of plenty of situations where these kids move out and into prostitution to pay these debts on their own accord, and there are massage parlour/rao owners who are money lenders, but have yet to see pure bread and butter money lenders who help their debtors "work it off" in the way you are suggesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've heard of many 13 or 14 year old kids moving out to pay thes debts on their own accord?

I'm surprised, most kids of this age were children, not young adults as you could refer to western kids of a similar age.

I have also noticed that the children in my home village in Phrae are much more mature than their counterparts in Isaan. The Isaan village that I stayed in anyway.

You say that you know this business rather well. So how do you think children get involved in child prostitution?

[Heng]

You've heard of many 13 or 14 year old kids moving out to pay thes debts on their own accord?

I'm surprised, most kids of this age were children, not young adults as you could refer to western kids of a similar age.

I have also noticed that the children in my home village in Phrae are much more mature than their counterparts in Isaan. The Isaan village that I stayed in anyway.

You say that you know this business rather well. So how do you think children get involved in child prostitution?

Money lending. Not prostitution.

[loong]

Money lending.  Not prostitution.

Sorry, misunderstood your area of expertese

[dereklev]

Money lending.   Not prostitution.

Sorry, misunderstood your area of expertese

Quite a mistake to make! !

[RamdomChances]

I think people who have said move a distance away from the village are right. Not just from the privacy perspective but from a finance/real estate perspective. I'm sure that a big house in the country will always be easier to sell in the future than a big house in a village, especially if that village turns into a rubbish dump over the years. It just seems like a better investment to me in the long term as you will never know when you want to sell that property.

I think this may not be a bad idea depending on what you are actually doing.

Personaly I see having all the family around as a big plus point. There are always people around to help if needs be. Also in my case my mother-in-law gave us the house, ok it was delepidated but meant I could get away with just a few 100,000 doing it up. The other thing is I was starting a buisiness which would of proved impossible with out the help and support of the family here, not to mention the 60 rai she gave us(well 30 was the wifes anyway). So for me it was a bit of a no brain'er really.

Dead right, wife or gf should be your first line of defence, and if they can't deal with it you should stick up for yourself.

I sort of half and half agree with this, it does help at least initially if you wife/GF is your first line of defence, you should try however IMHO try to swich that to yourself as soon as you can, if anyone wants anything here my wife just tells them to come and ask me. It saves her having to try and make excuses and most of the time they wont even bother to ask me. You wont get much respect out of Thai men by being seen to be your wifes puppet.

[gburns57au]

From the amounts of money I have seen being talked about, it is clear where the problems lie.....

Lets face it, if you flash your wealth around someone poorer will want to partake of some of it, anywhere in the world. If some of you guys had of been a bit more prudent to start with, you wouldnt have the trouble you have now.

I agree that you have to set the limits from the very start of your relationships, whether it be with the missus or with her family. Once you are seen as a soft touch it is hard to alter that perception. You have to be seen to be firm but fair.

To the guys that want to build huge walls around their houses.....Thai society especially in villages is an open house society...people will drop by all the time, (not always to bludge food, drink or money) By building the physical barriers you are also building social barriers...you are isolating yourself and telling the villagers that you dont want to be a part of their society. That is when the problems start.

In the times that I have been in villages, I have never experienced these problems, I think IMHO that it boils down to respect.....if they respect you as a person they will treat you as a part of the village...if they dont respect you, they will try and scam you, bludge of you and rip you off.

Burnsy,I dont know whether you are offering advice or being facitious,do you infer that to live in a village you should live in an old thai baan and have an old bomb to get on with the locals?how long did you reside in a village? I only ask this to help ascertain whose advise is relevant.

I only spent a few months living in the village and on the surface reckoned that I could be happy there , the only downside I found were things I had no control over like getting up early in the morning to go down to the loo and having to step over half a dozen drunken sleeping mates of my step son, that type of thing plus keeping village animals out of my proposed garden was the thinking behind the concrete fence, do you really think that such a fence is a social barrier. You can always open the gate but how do you ensure your privacy when you want it.?

Ozzy, just offering advice based on what I have seen and heard.

Yes I believe that if you build a huge mansion with 7 ft concrete walls around it then you are creating a social barrier to the rest of the village....by all means have a nice house with mod cons and a low ornamental wall around it. People can wander by and talk to you or the missus over the wall and it will still keep unwanted guests out. Once the initial curiosity is gone, then they will respect your privacy as they do between themselves. These people have lived for years in much the same way as they do today, without the need for fences and walls. So obviously when someone comes along and puts up a house then totally encloses it with Alcatraz style walls, then it creates suspicion. How can you integrate into a society that doesnt trust you ???

Village life is not easy for most farangs, most dont take the time to see how the village interacts within itself socially. Their lifestyle is built on mutual trust and understanding. It is important that as an outsider trying to mix in, that you remain constant in your dealings with them. If you are wishy washy or inconsistant they wont trust you. That is why you have to set the ground rules from day one and stick to them. These guys that throw money around when they first visit because they are trying to impress the families and the locals are only asking for trouble when they eventually go and live there, because they are not being constant with the impression they gave at first.

In answer to your other question, I have spent about 12 months living in villages all up and also have friends who have been visiting and living in villages for upto 20 years.

My tip is....If you cant handle living in a village as they do.....in the old Thai Baan, using dip showers and squat toilets, no air con or TV etc.....then dont go to live there.

Anyway I am off on another trip there tomorrow, so see ya all later