At Least Three Dead In Bomb Blast At Bangkok Apartment Building

[toybits]

mea culpa - Hydrogen...

Helium Baloon going off during a parade

[webfact]

UPDATE

Tenant of blast room wanted on arrest warrant

The tenant of the room where an explosion occurred in Nonthaburi Tuesday evening was wanted on an arrest warrant for having violated the emergency decree, Jor Sor 100 reported Wednesday.

The tenant of Room 202 of the Samarn Metta Mansion, Samai Wongsuwan was killed in the blast, the radio station said.

Samai reportedly rented the room on Sept 23.

Authorities now fear that the mansion might collapse.

-- The Nation 2010-10-06

[otherstuff1957]

Well, I was hoping that it was just an accident with a gas cylinder, but, despite my reservations about the competence of the police investigation, the facts about this Wangsuwang fellow seem to point at a bomb-assembly accident.

More bad news for Thailand.

[webfact]

Allegedly found were a few air rifles, 2 air-con coollant containers & a fire extinguisher cylinder, all filled with urea. -TVThai /via @tulsathit

[webfact]

Blast latest:The site declared dangerous zone, only officials allowed in the area,more equipments brought to support the bldg structure #ntv /via @tukky_nt

[geriatrickid]

Talking of vivid fantasies, care to name your source of this "urea" theory? You mentioned the specialists were discussing it.

Latest from Twitter says It's likely to be C4 or TNT.

Isn't Twitter the prankster's best friend? It was used to announced that Justin Bieber was dead. Twitter also announced that Bill Cosby was dead.

I don't think anyone with common sense is going to rely on twitter. Oh wait,, that's why users are called twits.

If I put out a twit news flash that I have discoveredThaksin's diabolical plans to conquer Botswana, are you going to believe it? How about if I announce that the Jonas Brothers just left a geat big turd on Thom Yorke's doorstep and challenged droopy to a battle of the bands?

[featography]

Which Bomb???? There is no mention of a bomb. Ap says: Cause UNKNOWN.Bombs sounds better though....especially when you are in the army camp.

For sure, lets jump to conclusions. Its the only excercise TV members get anyway.

Does the building have gas? Are there propane tanks on balconies for tenants to cook with?

[OzMick]

please try to keep up.

[Insight]

Talking of vivid fantasies, care to name your source of this "urea" theory? You mentioned the specialists were discussing it.

Latest from Twitter says It's likely to be C4 or TNT.

Isn't Twitter the prankster's best friend? It was used to announced that Justin Bieber was dead. Twitter also announced that Bill Cosby was dead.

I don't think anyone with common sense is going to rely on twitter. Oh wait,, that's why users are called twits.

If I put out a twit news flash that I have discoveredThaksin's diabolical plans to conquer Botswana, are you going to believe it? How about if I announce that the Jonas Brothers just left a geat big turd on Thom Yorke's doorstep and challenged droopy to a battle of the bands?

It's also used by a (very) large number of journalists to communicate breaking news.

You should at least attempt to scratch the surface of such tools before you go mocking them. To the people who are somewhat familiar with such technology, it's shortcomings and how to avoid them, you've just projected yourself as a complete ignoramus.

[webfact]

3 killed, 9 injured in Nonthaburi apartment blast

NONTHABURI, Oct 6 – A large bomb, possibly in the process of being assembled, exploded in a unit of a 5-story apartment building in Nonthaburi on Tuesday evening killing at least three persons and wounding nine others in a blast which destroyed at least two housing units of the complex.

Police said the blast at 6.30pm was likely to have occurred in room number 201 on the second floor of the residential complex -- Samanmettha Mansion in the Bang Bua Thong area -- not only ripping out two residential units on adjacent floors and killing and injuring people in side the building and outside on the street, but also shattering windows and damaging nearby buildings and vehicles.

The concrete walls of rooms at the corner on the first and second floors were ripped out of the building while many cars were damaged from the concrete huge fragments.

Some residences near the apartment were also damaged.

Police said three people were killed -- two men and one woman. The injured survivors were treated and are now recovering.

According to the initial investigation, room number 201 belonged to Samai Wongsuwan from the northern province of Chiang Mai, but it was not known whether he was one of the casualties who died at the scene or is still alive and still at large.

Chiang Mai is a stronghold of anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD).

National police chief Pol Gen Wichean Potephosree and acting national police chief Pol Gen Panupong Singhara Na Ayutthaya inspected the scene last night and Gen Wichean was to chair a meeting of high ranking police at 9am before holding a press conference.

Forensic experts and investigators continued collecting evidence Wednesday morning while a bomb squad searched the area and civil engineers inspected damage to the structure of the building.

Police spokesman Pol Maj Gen Prawut Thavornsiri said the initial investigation found that many explosive materials were stored in the room number 201 and the explosion may have been caused by a mistake while someone was assembling a bomb.

Nonthaburi is one of four provinces where the state of emergency is still in place.

The Cabinet on Tuesday extended the state of emergency imposed in Bangkok and its three adjacent provinces, Nonthaburi, Samut Prakan and Pathum Thani since April for another three months, to maintain law and order following reports of continuing disturbances in the areas.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva last week lifted the state of emergency in the three northeastern provinces of Khon Kaen, Nakhon Ratchasima and Udon Thani. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-10-06

[TallForeigner]

Listen up! The explosives specialists are talking and coming even up with "urea"....

Urea is a fertilizer and absolutely harmless; it is as explosive and as flammable as your table salt...

Ammoniumnitrate is also a fertilizer but it also has certain explosive properties. However what people always forget is that you can't just detonate Ammoniumnitrate by accident unless you have a fire under many tens or hundreds of tons of compressed AN.

Sorry, but having been a quarry-master and used ANFO when other explosives are unavailable, I can assure you that it explodes very well. Timothy McVey would confirm this if he could.

Urea is also recognised as a component of explosives, esp. when in a prilled form (small granules). To make ANFO is tricky, one must add the small amount of diesel necessary at a controlled rate with very careful stirring. It will heat up, which is controlled by the slowness of adding the other components. It's flash point is low, but then it usually just ignites and burns, it does not explode. As you said, an igniter (blasting cap or similar) will trigger the explosion, and if the mix is confined in several directions, then the force in an unconfined direction is very impressive.

It is not something to play with, unless you are well trained. (I had NitroNobel training many years ago)

Nice to discuss with someone who knows about explosives. Maybe you misunderstood me about Ammoniumnitrate. I never questioned that it can detonate with impressive force (even though its explosion velocity is only about 1/3 of that of C4) - however as you know well it is not that simple to initiate. For the quantities we are talking about here it needs a strong initiation and a significant booster to set it off, therefore I mentioned it will not easily explode by accident. I belong to the people that doubt whether Timothy McVey was actually using ANFO (even if the fuel part would have been nitromethane or even hydrazine). My doubts are shared by a number of well recognized experts. If you are interested in knowing more about the reason for these doubts then have a look here: Oklahoma City Bombing

Unfortunately you must be confused about the urea. Urea is a carbamide with the chemical formula (NH2)CO(NH2); this substance has no potentyially high energetic Nitro or Nitrate component and cannot detonate. Urea is a nitrogen fertilizer as is Ammoniumnitrate (Nh4NO3) and both are also sometimes sold as prills - but the urea cannot detonate whereas the Ammoniumnitrate can. Some fertilizers are mixtures of Urea and Ammoniumnitrate. A bombmaker would then purify the ammoniumnitrate to get rid of as much urea as he can because the more urea is left in, the lower will be the power of the ammoniumnitrate.

[sbk]

Which Bomb???? There is no mention of a bomb. Ap says: Cause UNKNOWN.Bombs sounds better though....especially when you are in the army camp.

For sure, lets jump to conclusions. Its the only excercise TV members get anyway.

Does the building have gas? Are there propane tanks on balconies for tenants to cook with?

TBH, I have never heard of buildings with propane tanks on the roof for the tenants to cook with.

If you want to keep up with the breaking news without having to read the entire thread, I suggest you read the Live daily feed found here:

Specifically, it might be good to read this post:

"It was definitely a bomb. We cannot say what type of bomb it is yet ... But it was a massive bomb because it damaged a large area," said national police spokesman Major General Prawut Tawornsiri.

[geriatrickid]

Listen up! The explosives specialists are talking and coming even up with "urea"....

Urea is a fertilizer and absolutely harmless; it is as explosive and as flammable as your table salt...

Ammoniumnitrate is also a fertilizer but it also has certain explosive properties. However what people always forget is that you can't just detonate Ammoniumnitrate by accident unless you have a fire under many tens or hundreds of tons of compressed AN.

Sorry, but having been a quarry-master and used ANFO when other explosives are unavailable, I can assure you that it explodes very well. Timothy McVey would confirm this if he could.

Urea is also recognised as a component of explosives, esp. when in a prilled form (small granules). To make ANFO is tricky, one must add the small amount of diesel necessary at a controlled rate with very careful stirring. It will heat up, which is controlled by the slowness of adding the other components. It's flash point is low, but then it usually just ignites and burns, it does not explode. As you said, an igniter (blasting cap or similar) will trigger the explosion, and if the mix is confined in several directions, then the force in an unconfined direction is very impressive.

It is not something to play with, unless you are well trained. (I had NitroNobel training many years ago)

I think you may have misunderstood his point because you are both making similar points. You reference the McVeigh detonation, which is a good illustration. My understanding is that multiple detonators were used along with several fuses. The first "explosion" was for the 160kg. of Tovex which was supposed to set off the 13 barrels, of which 9 contained a mixture of ammonium nitrate and CH3NO2. The other barrels contained diesel and generic fertilizer - the ANFO

One way to determine for sure is to collect the specimens and samples. It would probably upset alot of people on TVF to have to wait a few days but chromatography and infrared spectrophotometry can deliver an accurate identification. And then there is the collection of fragments for examination under the microscope. The old pros can identify quickly. The other option is to get some of the bodies that were in close proximity and to collect a few samples. The force of the blast would have caused bomb particulate to bond with the flesh and to be aspirated by the victims. If it was a gas explosion, the lungs of the prximate victims will give an indication. What I find odd is that there was no fire, where was the resulting coflaguration? If there was ANFO, one would expect a fire. Personally, I don't think the locals have the facilities or the expertise to provide a proper assessment. There are several EU countries, the USA and Israel that have dynamic facilities because they get alot of idiots setting off bombs. Maybe it is time to ask for help.

[lingyaiyai]

The three S's are well and truly in play here:

Speculation

Speculation

Speculation

As usual the single I is nowhere to be seen:

Information

[webfact]

UPDATE

Police Confirm Reports that Nonthaburi Bomb Exploded Prematurely

Metropolitan police have confirmed earlier reports which suggest that the bomb which exploded in a 5-storey mansion in Bang Bua Thong yesterday evening blew up prematurely. Officials say there is evidence suggesting that a room on the second floor was being used as a headquarters to construct bombs to be used in attacks throughout the city. Authorities are now looking for the owner of the room who is believed to be a Chiang Mai native.

-- Tan Network 2010-10-06

[Buchholz]

[/b][/color]

Tenant of blast room wanted on arrest warrant

The tenant of the room where an explosion occurred in Nonthaburi Tuesday evening was wanted on an arrest warrant for having violated the emergency decree, Jor Sor 100 reported Wednesday.

The tenant of Room 202 of the Samarn Metta Mansion, Samai Wongsuwan was killed in the blast, the radio station said.

not exactly Red foot clappers stored there

Members of security personnel inspect a burnt weapon found at the site of a bombing in the suburbs of Bangkok October 6, 2010. The blast at an apartment complex killed three people on Tuesday and wounded nine

Reuters

An investigator holds a burnt weapon found at the site of a bombing in the suburbs of Bangkok October 6, 2010.

Reuters

[foxteen]

That's put in danger anybody and can even kill a farang,hope they can get hold and control of these bombs and who is behind

[TallForeigner]

You reference the McVeigh detonation, which is a good illustration. My understanding is that multiple detonators were used along with several fuses. The first "explosion" was for the 160kg. of Tovex which was supposed to set off the 13 barrels, of which 9 contained a mixture of ammonium nitrate and CH3NO2. The other barrels contained diesel and generic fertilizer - the ANFO

I am wondering whether you have studied the experts claiming that Mc Veigh using ANFO is a myth:

Cohen stated his position in a letter to Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key:

It would have been absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil… no matter how much was used… to bring the building down.

Interestingly, the Ryder truck-bomb has earned the nickname the "Mannlicher-Carcanno Bomb" after the cheap Italian-made rifle with a defective scope that was allegedly used to kill President Kennedy. District Attorney Jim Garrison joked during the Shaw conspiracy trial that the government's nuclear physics lab could explain how a single bullet could travel through President Kennedy and Governor Connally five times while making several u-turns, then land in pristine condition on the President's gurney.

In the Oklahoma bombing case, it appears the government is attempting to perform a similar feat of light and magic. The fact that a non-directional, low-velocity fertilizer bomb parked 20 to 30 feet from a modern, steel-reinforced super-structure could not have caused the pattern and degree of damage it did is not being widely touted by the government or the mainstream press. The government expects the public to believe that two disgruntled amateurs blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building with a homemade fertilizer bomb.

Dr. Roger Raubach doesn't believe the government. Raubach, who did his Ph.D. in physical chemistry and served on the research faculty at Stanford University, says, "General Partin's assessment is absolutely correct. I don't care if they pulled up a semi-trailer truck with 20 tons of ammonium nitrate; it wouldn't do the damage we saw there."

Raubach, who is the technical director of a chemical company, explained in an interview with The New American magazine:

"The detonation velocity of the shock wave from an ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel-oil) explosion is on the order of 2,000 to 3,500 meters per second. In comparison, military explosives generally have detonation velocities that hit 7,000 to 8,000-plus meters per second. The most energetic single-component explosive of this type, C-4 — which is also known as Cyclonite or RDX — is about 8,000 meters per second and above. You don't start doing big-time damage to heavy structures until you get into those ranges, which is why the military uses those explosives."

The government is not happy about people like Dr. Roger Raubach. They don't want you to know what Dr. Raubach knows. Sam Gronning, a licensed, professional blaster in Casper, Wyoming with 30 years experience in explosives, told The New American:

"The Partin letter states in very precise technical terms what everyone in this business knows: No truck-bomb of ANFO out in the open is going to cause the kind of damage we had there in Oklahoma City. In 30 years of blasting, using everything from 100 percent nitrogel to ANFO, I've not seen anything to support that story."

In an interview with the author, Gronning said, "I set off a 5,000 lb ANFO charge. I was standing 1,000 feet from it, and all it did was muss my hair, take out the mud in the creek that we were trying to get rid of, and it shattered a few leaves off the trees around it. It didn't cause any collateral damage to any of the deeply set trees that were within 20 feet of it."

You can find many more details and expert analysis here: ANFO at Oklahoma city?

Whatever happens, as long as we don't have a precise and top quality forensic analysis and facts every bomb blast will be an endless source of myths, propaganda, lies, politics, finger pointing and useless speculation.

Edited October 6, 2010 by TallForeigner

[shaunoro]

That weapon does not look like an air rifle.

[Pi Sek]

I can't believe how pro-Red posters can try to disassociate the UDD from this incident. Before the facts came out, sure. But the facts are now out:

- The guy was a known and wanted Red Shirt, one of those who was "on the run" with an arrest warrant issued in May.

- There were guns and insurgency DVDs in his room.

- The explosion was caused by a bomb (although they still don't know what kind, it seems); possibly amplified by several other bombs.

Seriously, if I hear another "the govt did it" akin to Jatuporn's claims that the government burnt Bangkok and not the reds, I'm going to throw up. The level of incrimination here is not "some evidence" - it's what you call "getting caught red-handed" (no pun intended).

This one is a big cock-up on the UDD's part - it just goes to show that the government was right all along and those reds claiming government conspiracies are liars. And to you TV posters who back them up, shame on you.

[sunanta]

A big blast on the second floor.

Possibility it could be the bomb makers themselves.

Unless it was a personal thing it hardly seems likely that anyone would take enough explosives to the second floor to cause a big blast.

Anyway condolances to the familys of the dead, a speedy recovery to the injured and hope the building owner had insurance.

LPG will go off like a bomb!

L.P.G. cant be dangerous.....i see kids with loads of full bottles laying on their side banging around in a side car of a motor cycle all the time......

[Insight]

....

Whatever happens, as long as we don't have a precise and top quality forensic analysis and facts every bomb blast will be an endless source of myths, propaganda, lies, politics, finger pointing and useless speculation.

Yeah, so make several lengthy posts speculating the explosive materials used and discussing Timothy McVeigh instead

A few known FACTS so far:

1. A known red-shirt suspected of planting bomb outside Podision on Ratchada was killed in the blast.

2. The blast is believed by many experts ON THE SCENE to be caused by a BOMB.

3. The said experts also believe the BOMB exploded prematurely.

[Dukeleto]

Probably a bomb factory that blew up. I guess that Takki Shinegra and his Red Shirts can add the losses to their long list of members lost in their war against the thai government.

Let´s all hope that the bombers will be re-born as soi-dogs.

Is there another way, apart from being a bomber, of coming back as a soi-dog...I wanna come back as a soi-dog, now that's living!

[webfact]

Hunt for a man linked to Bang Bua Thong explotion: police

Follow this link:

[Buchholz]

Two bodies were found in the room and a leg was seen hanging by the building in television reports.

whether it's legs outside the building or arms inside the building, powerful explosions are devastating

Police found human organs, including an arm, inside the room, triggering speculation about bomb-making in progress.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Hunt-for-a-man-linked-to-Bang-Bua-Thong-explotion--30139486.html

[OzMick]

Listen up! The explosives specialists are talking and coming even up with "urea"....

Urea is a fertilizer and absolutely harmless; it is as explosive and as flammable as your table salt...

Ammoniumnitrate is also a fertilizer but it also has certain explosive properties. However what people always forget is that you can't just detonate Ammoniumnitrate by accident unless you have a fire under many tens or hundreds of tons of compressed AN.

Sorry, but having been a quarry-master and used ANFO when other explosives are unavailable, I can assure you that it explodes very well. Timothy McVey would confirm this if he could.

Urea is also recognised as a component of explosives, esp. when in a prilled form (small granules). To make ANFO is tricky, one must add the small amount of diesel necessary at a controlled rate with very careful stirring. It will heat up, which is controlled by the slowness of adding the other components. It's flash point is low, but then it usually just ignites and burns, it does not explode. As you said, an igniter (blasting cap or similar) will trigger the explosion, and if the mix is confined in several directions, then the force in an unconfined direction is very impressive.

It is not something to play with, unless you are well trained. (I had NitroNobel training many years ago)

Nice to discuss with someone who knows about explosives. Maybe you misunderstood me about Ammoniumnitrate. I never questioned that it can detonate with impressive force (even though its explosion velocity is only about 1/3 of that of C4) - however as you know well it is not that simple to initiate. For the quantities we are talking about here it needs a strong initiation and a significant booster to set it off, therefore I mentioned it will not easily explode by accident. I belong to the people that doubt whether Timothy McVey was actually using ANFO (even if the fuel part would have been nitromethane or even hydrazine). My doubts are shared by a number of well recognized experts. If you are interested in knowing more about the reason for these doubts then have a look here: Oklahoma City Bombing

Unfortunately you must be confused about the urea. Urea is a carbamide with the chemical formula (NH2)CO(NH2); this substance has no potentyially high energetic Nitro or Nitrate component and cannot detonate. Urea is a nitrogen fertilizer as is Ammoniumnitrate (Nh4NO3) and both are also sometimes sold as prills - but the urea cannot detonate whereas the Ammoniumnitrate can. Some fertilizers are mixtures of Urea and Ammoniumnitrate. A bombmaker would then purify the ammoniumnitrate to get rid of as much urea as he can because the more urea is left in, the lower will be the power of the ammoniumnitrate.

I have already supplied you with one link and quote stating that urea nitrate

CH₅N₃O₄is as explosive an AN. Here is another http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea_nitrate "The compound is favored by many amateur explosive enthusiasts as a principal explosive used in larger charges, as a substitute for ammonium nitrate based explosives. This is due to both the ease of acquiring the materials necessary to synthesize it, and its greater sensitivity to initiation compared to ammonium nitrate based explosives."

Can you explain to me why anyone smart enough to draw breath would buy a urea/AN mix and then try to remove the urea when AN is sold unadulterated in any semi-civilized farming area?

[Dukeleto]

....

Whatever happens, as long as we don't have a precise and top quality forensic analysis and facts every bomb blast will be an endless source of myths, propaganda, lies, politics, finger pointing and useless speculation.

Yeah, so make several lengthy posts speculating the explosive materials used and discussing Timothy McVeigh instead

A few known FACTS so far:

1. A known red-shirt suspected of planting bomb outside Podision on Ratchada was killed in the blast.

2. The blast is believed by many experts ON THE SCENE to be caused by a BOMB.

3. The said experts also believe the BOMB exploded prematurely.

I think the information regarding the Oklahoma bombing illustrates that even when the facts are known they sometimes still dont add up. It's not unfeasable to take the current facts and create a story that implicates either side or indeed nobody. Still not enough information.

[yellow1red1]

Listen up! <snip>

Looks like it was the reds after all - here comes the damage limitation exercise.

Interesting how TF is immediately jumping to the defence even before the bombers or victims have been ID'd.

He is a supporter of terrorists as we have known for a while. Now it seems that he could even be an explosives consultant to the UDD terrorist organization.

Following this approach, the international community has adopted the following sectoral counter-terrorism conventions, open to the ratification of all states:

• The 1963 Convention on Offences and Certain Other Acts Committed On Board Aircraft
• The 1970 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Seizure of Aircraft
• The 1971 Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Civil Aviation
• The 1988 Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts of Violence at Airports Serving International Civil Aviation

[Buchholz]

The blast went off from Room 202 of five-storey Samarn Metta Mansion

sending a tremor and causing a small fire and the walls to break down, and threatening a collapse due to heavy structural damage.

Well demonstrated in an elevated photo. Hopefully the other tenants can find other accommodations quickly and easily as they can't stay there:

Reuters

Irregardless of identity (Red bomber or Red bomber's victim), RIP:

Rescue workers carry the body of a person killed in a bomb blast in a suburb of Bangkok October 5, 2010.

Reuters

Edited October 6, 2010 by Buchholz

[ableguy]

Bad news, although there is no confirmation it is actually a bomb yet I guess with all the recent troubles we can assume that is was...and if so, it's the worst yet and not a good sign.

A bomb factory comes to my mind, if so I hope the makers of the bomb were the ones who died