Helping Thai People With Their English Grammar Problems

[ninjat]

Hi,

Quite a few Thai people seems to have 2 big problems with English grammar:

1) They doesn't seem to understand the difference between specific and non-specific words

2) They keep mixing up past and present tense

What can one do to make them understand these two things?

Is there a website that explains it all in Thai? (I have tried explaining it in English, but it doesn't sink in. That's why I think it might help to read an explanation in their own language).

Thanks,

Ninjat

[floridaguy]

Well, Thai is more of a simple language than English. Words such as pronouns, past/present tense, they are not widely used. Explaining it to a non-native English speaker is difficult. Unless you use it on a daily basis, with native speakers, it is very difficult to learn all the nuances of a language. Those Thais who have been abroad for long periods of time, say more than a couple of years, get it, but they are using it daily with native speakers. My mother lived in the US for 30+ years, and never fully grasped the past/present tense (she usually used qualifier words, like "go already"), she struggled with pronouns (usually used their names as they do here in Thailand), and hated words with multiple spellings/meanings (red, read, read).

So, my advice is find a Thai person who has been abroad and understands these concepts and get them together for chats.

[Moonrakers]

Don't (do not) isn't (is not) USA English. It's (it is) just an abbreviation of do not.

But yeah, pedantry aside, I struggle to see how somebody can instruct others on grammar when they get it wrong themselves.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Moonrakers

[bangkockney]

You asked how can you explain tenses to someone: if it happened before today, it's past tense; if it happened today it's present tense, if it will happen after today, it's future. Why don't you have someone explain that to them in Thai?

Not too hard really?

You say they mix up their tenses, which suggests they already know correct usage. From my own experience, it's laziness that is the main culprit for poor grammar in speakers of ESL, whether intentional or not.

[jsflynn603]

ninjat, I can understand your point of view, yet I'm not sure that a website, even in Thai would help much.

English grammar is complex and confusing. The reality is this: Ask any number of good native English speakers this question: What's the difference between was and were?

Each would probably reply: "Oh that's easy...uh, let's see..." uh, hmmm, give me a minute, oh I need to leave now...."

The reality is that most good native speakers of English simply "know." They never learned or learned and forgot the "grammar rules." This is why one can approach the difference between "was" and "were" using simple examples and over time, the Thai speaker usually picks the right one, especially if she has done some drills.

Ask half a dozen English speakers this question:

There is a red-haired man, sitting in a restaurant. He is wearing a bright green hat. Now should a person observe him, perhaps from the other side of the restaurant, said person might think that that the green clashes with his red hair, but a blue or black hat would work just fine. If so such a person might turn to a friend and say one of two things:

1) If I were him, I wouldn't wear a green hat.

2) If I were he, I wouldn't wear a green hat.

I'm not sure about the Brits, but most Americans would choose #1 as the correct answer, yet the correct answer is actually #2.

You could make a set of question/answers that illustrate this point and the student would likely learn that the odd sounding way (to the American ear) is the correct way, and they would simply say it that way from then on with enough practice.

Or, you could refer them to lousywriter com and go to their grammar section which deals with common grammar mistakes of "was" and "were."

Here they succinctly explain it:

"In the subjunctive mood the plural form were should be used with a singular subject; as, "If I were," not was. Remember the plural form of the personal pronoun you always takes were, though it may denote but one. Thus, "You were," never "you was." "If I was him" is a very common expression. Note the two mistakes in it,—that of the verb implying a condition, and that of the objective case of the pronoun. It should read If I were he. This is another illustration of the rule regarding the verb To Be, taking the same case after it as before it; were is part of the verb To Be, therefore as the nominative (I) goes before it, the nominative (he) should come after it."

Now I appreciate the explanation, and understand it, but herein lies a few problems: #1 Can this explanation really be translated into Thai? #2 What the heck is subjunctive anyway. #3 Since most American native speakers blissfully get it wrong and think nothing of it by saying: "If I were him..." who really cares? #4 This gives me a headache--I can't imagine what it does to a student.

In short, I think that no student of any language ever has "a big problem," any more than a child who will fall when learning to ride a bicycle has a "big problem". I'd suggest that you go with the flow, and in your teaching, develop drills and games that lead the student to an "instinctive" answer, rather than an answer that relies on a complex analysis of rules. If nothing else, it will be more fun.

[thunder30101]

Thank buddha for "english-english" and not that horribly wrong american english for without it where would the world be.

[TheWorldandI]

I am no expert in thai langauge but I think what bangkockney said should be relative to help out the tenses issue. Thai word "laew" means already and "yang" means not. I would suggest you look into these words.

[MiG16]

moving this to the teaching forum

seems more apt there

[Scott]

First of all, helping people with tenses depends a lot on the reason for the help. If you are talking about students who need to know, understand and use grammar that is one thing. If you are talking about ordinary people with whom you are trying to communicate, then it is a different situation all together.

For the latter group of people, I wouldn't make an issue of the matter. I would simply try to clarify in order to properly understand. I would also make sure that you model correct grammar. I know a lot of people who say "You go to Pattaya last week?" The use of Pigin English by native or near native speakers only exacerbates the problem.

Tenses need to be used and practiced a great deal in the proper context to be a part of the persons language. Simply teaching them the tenses and when to use them will not work very well.

Be careful about over correcting. This usually inhibits people and rather than speaking correctly, they simply stop speaking at all.

[Phatcharanan]

Tenses need to be used and practiced a great deal in the proper context to be a part of the persons language. Simply teaching them the tenses and when to use them will not work very well.

Very good point.

Whilst the use of tenses and plurals seems easy to us NES it has to be remembered that the Thi language does not have tenses, plurals or capitals.

To differentiate between singular and plural Thais use add-on words.

Its not as easy for them to learn as we may assume.

[Scrubber]

You asked how can you explain tenses to someone: if it happened before today, it's past tense; if it happened today it's present tense, if it will happen after today, it's future.

I hope you don't tell your students this, because it's not correct. Just one reason why: "I had breakfast this morning." Today? Present tense?

[endure]

I know a lot of people who say "You go to Pattaya last week?" The use of Pigin English by native or near native speakers only exacerbates the problem.

It would be interesting to know how that words marked in red are said in Thai. I suspect, although the only Thai I know is 'Beer Singh song kuat', that 'You go to Pattaya last week' may possibly be the way that it's said in Thai. I reckon this thread might be better off in the Thai Language forum where a comparison between English and Thai can be done by our language experts.

[Scott]

Endure, you might be right. If the OP wants to do a comparison of languages, then the Thai Language sub-forum would be appropriate. If he wants to help someone with their English then this one might be best.

It depends on what the goal is. Again, if it's his neighbors, he might want to learn what they mean; if it's students then repetition, correction and teaching are in order.

With students, and those who want to learn the language, I usually pick something rather important and just correct it, like the past tense. Like, "Where did you go last night?" When they answer with "I go home", I have them repeat 3 times "I went home". "What did you do?" "I do homework", I correct to "I did homework." Again 3 times. After a few days of the same questions, the correct answer just comes out without thinking. Then add further to the conversation.

My neighbors, friends, parents and others are seldom corrected. I am happy that they will try to communicate in English and always compliment them on their effort.

Be helpful, positive and use repetition.