Thailand Not Ready For English As Second Language

[Bruce1]

Auslish, Singlish, Indish, Rushish, Chinish, Malayish etc etc - and don't forget those particularly difficult varieties, Amerish, British, Scottish, Welsish and Irish.

[mark45y]

First measure : Do NOT allow Thai English teachers to speak Thai in English lessons!!!

I don't know what to assume. Are you an English teacher who doesn't speak Thai and is jealous of other English teachers who have been here longer and do speak Thai.

Are you a linguist who is recommending this because it is a faster and better way to speak English?

Have you taken Thai lessons where the instructor spoke no English?

I taught in Thai schools for three years from grade school to University level.

I taught English at Ramkanghaeng Uni for 5 years. If you spoke any Thai in the classroom it was instant dismissal. The rule was also applied to the poor suckers who taught in primary and secondary schools on the dreaded Nonthaburi project.

I taught English on a university level and in kindergarten.

I guess kindergarten would have been OK not speaking any Thai. When I taught it I didn't speak much Thai. We sang songs and I pointed to things and then ran around like maniacs.

How did you find the experience teaching without speaking any Thai in class? I assume you speak Thai.

And how did the poor suckers survive? Did the students learn anything?

[Unwisemonkey]

I'm teaching English, and the logistical problems are huge. The English programs at school have the same problems as every other program. ...

But we share 4 computers between a staff of over 20 in the English Department.... ...

Facebook is blocked on all school computers which is a pain in the ass because I cannot communicate with my friends who are proffesional teachers in a timely manner ....

<deleted>?

Are you for real? Can you imagine that people learned languages without a computer and the teacher have access to facebook.

OMG. I don't have children. But i read from time to time how foreign parents are worried about the schools here and the teachers. Complains about the Thai teachers, but when i read some words from the foreigners here, posing as 'teacher' and report their little issues and silly opinions i would as parents worried about these farangs teachers if not even more. They are definitely equally NOT QUALIFIED.

High scores on editing put what I wrote to make me appear ignorant and stupid. Cut the crap and work on your own reading comprehension Sergei. I teach over 1000 students each week and it's no easy task. I don't teach with a computer, but I suppose I am to create different worksheets ESL games and various assignments by hand in a timely manner to reach all of those classes, each with a different level of skill. Sure why not lets assign an oral presentation in English on provincial history for Matayom 5/1 as well as matayom 5/12 They can all handle it.

Facebook is blocked and you convienantly left out that I wrote it was a minor grievance, because I'd like to communicate with my friends who are proffesional teachers and can give me advice and practical tips. I haven't met a single foreigner yet who has ever claimed to be a proffesional teacher, what I have encountered is some brave people willing to try something new and take it very seriously despite having the chips stacked against them. This includes being aware of their own inexperience. You make light of these teachers and their "little issues and silly opinions" but offer nothing because your opinion counts as that much... NOTHING.

I've sat down with parents of the Thai Students we teach and completely unprompted heard the exact, near verbatim complaints about the English department and the issues facing it that I've said and many others here on this board. Contrary to popular belief not all Thais and Thai parents are all ceremony and easy going mai pen rai , take it easy this is Thailand. They know the score. They have hopes and expectations for their children and their country and when you are in a position that effects directly literally at least a thousand lives... you tend to take all these little things pretty <deleted> seriously because they all add up and amount to one big <deleted> problem. And you know if these little things were done and done right that it may not solve everything but it would make the most of what you have on hand and make it that much easier to reach more students. I've gotten into disagreements with my fellow native speakers about western education, in short I said that if a Thai Teacher had access to the same quality of resources teachers in the western world had that within ten years Thai students nationwide would be competing academically amongst the top tiers of students worldwide.

In Summation <deleted>.

[Bruce1]

Very true. I currently teach multinational young adults and the Thais are among the better students. The Chinese and Arabs are lazy, the Taiwanese are a bit crazy, the Japs are nice and the South Americans are mostly very keen. Nationality has nothing to do with ability though, only motivation.

[mark45y]

They wouldn't let me use the computers or copy machines at school. I used my own computer at home and printed my own exercises and tests and bought my own paper. I used an Epson printer converted to bulk ink feeds. For each lesson I printed flash cards, large ones so they could be seen all the way to the back of the class and exercises using the vocabulary on the flash cards and then tests using smaller versions of the flash cards.

For each 12 words the students got verbally quizzed with flash cards and then spaghetti matching and then some kind of test and or puzzle test.

For computer access at school I used my cell phone and edge. It costs a couple of baht per hour.

I taught about 700 students a week. P-1 through 6 and M-1 through 3.

I got good at searching images and making flash cards.

I would have had no idea what to do if the school gave me any support. I think I would have feinted.

Is it OK if I talk?

[SergeiY]

Bar Girls speak better English than most Native Thai English Teachers.

Can bar girls read?

It isn't just about to have the right pronunciation, what i like on my foreign language skills is that it ables me to read things in that language. books, literature, newspapers, opinion articles - so i can get an idea how these people think and how they see certain things from their point of view.

I feel so sorry for the people who can only speak English, specially the once who think they could give others advice how to learn a foreign language.

[slapout]

Fingers can be pointed and blame placed elsewhere, but until the Education Ministry and this is a loosely used term of description, make a firm plan/commitment, get it funded and implemented, I doubt much will change. In the past the ministry has said that 5 and 6 year old are too young to learn a foreign language, computers will solve all problems (thus one for every student), everyone must finish grade school, etc, etc. Probably the first place to look at qualifications would be those appointed to the Education Ministry. To provide a decent education should not be a insurmountable task, there are plenty of examples in other countries to mimic. As many have said before, "you reap what you sow" and the operation of the entire system here, verifies this.

[mark45y]

Do you all realize what would happen if the average Thai were able to read and speak English?

The INTERNET would be available to the average Thai and not just the Thai boy girl sites.

News would be available.

History would be available.

The genie would be out of the lamp never to return.

China is just figuring this out. Hence banning Google.

Can you imagine a well informed Thai person!

Folks, if everyone was able to read just a little English things would change drastically.

It is not about jobs. It is about freedom of speech. It is about the old elite being tossed on the trash heap never to recover.

Our small discussions about teaching technique are not the issue. It is an issue of class warfare. Do people have the right to vote or do they need a father figure to lead them to the promised land?

Luckily the old elites don't speak English or if they do it is only to read advertisements for Gucci bags.

They are so wound up in petty grievances that they won't even realize what is happening until it happens and then they will have to hire English consultants to tell them why it happened.

The first coup after the majority of the population reads English will end in revolution and no one will know why.

The top is so isolated from the bottom that neither understands the other.

English could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[dumball]

='cup-O-coffee' timestamp='1286860698' post='3947932']

This is a very difficult discussion to find a solution, because the end goal is to be able to live out your life with the things you would like, and the security to protect that. This equates out to a reasonable income to accomplish that. Isn't that right, after all? There is way too much importance being given to institutions of learning. That is an error that brings about the downfall of nations. There should be more focus on where the child comes from before he or she enters into these institutions. Thai schools seem to think they have some right to tell parents how to raise their children. Maybe they are right. But where I was raised, the parents told the schools how to raise their children, when these institutions have the children in their keeping; OR ELSE! Not so here.

I am not so sure that Thai people feel that learning English, per se, is going to fit in to their future goals. On the other hand, I am not sure that the Thai people even know what they want themselves. Ask any Thai what their dreams are, and they will stare off into space and say nothing, or they will tell you they want something that is clearly outside of their present capabilities to achieve.

With that last sentence in mind; watch a Thai, and for the most part, they will let 5 or 10 valuable years roll by, and not do one single thing towards achieving that thing they told you they want. Yes; I understand the economical barriers, but that does not even come in to play here. I am talking about minds, and the development of those minds. Where is the genesis of this lack of movement and inspiration; this lack of creative and imaginative reaction of the mind; the "Big Bang" in each individual human being, so to speak? Some wait for it, and some expect it (like the posters here, and the Thai government and their spoken "intentions"), but it never seems to arrive into the minds we all debate, argue and lecture over; the children. Why is that? Can you pour out what has not been put in?

Children age for 6 or 7 years before they ever see a classroom. It is my strong opinion that the development that goes on during those years, with the child's mind, is more critical to that child's successes or failures in his or her life, than the results of what 50 years of what the best schools could ever offer.

I see no father figure here. I do not see, nor know of any evidence, that the fathers interact with their children's hungry, developing minds, and nurture creativity, imagination, inspiration, and the like. Where are the fathers of Thailand? The children that come from families with a loving and dedicated father figure, and a supportive an nurturing mother, are usually well on their way by the time they see their first teacher. It is nothing more than handing a baton over to a capable individual, who sees eye to eye with your needs for the child; someone who builds on what the father and mother began, and not someone who tells the ignorant father and mother what is best for the child and that beating your child will be part of the process. In a near-perfect world, the teacher simply takes over what the father and mother were responsible to begin, and carries on with that. That is because reading, writing, and arithmetic will already have been introduced into the minds of the children. Additionally, fathers who read to their children, create a hunger for knowledge that can never be quenched. Teachers feed that hunger with the fuel of knowledge that only books can provide. A teacher is an extension of the father and mother, and not the other way around.

All I see here is the children learning subconsciously through the common, mind-killing behavior of the adults. Children here see knees, and rarely eyes. Humans need eye contact in their mental development in order to build resolve, constitution, confidence, self-esteem, and self-image. I do not see any methods engaged by this country, or its families, that helps find a child's learning aptitude and style, and develop it before they enter school. Regrettably, the child enters school, an unprepared victim, fully unawares of their positive and negative learning abilities, completely lacking the knowledge and support of the father, and they immediately get hit by a tsunami of culture that condones racism, discrimination, humiliation, abuse and fear. One wrong move or word, and you get momentary blindness from the switch, or an ear or hair pulled, or a cuff to the side of the head. What can be more humiliating and damaging to a child than to have a teacher call you a derogatory name in front of your peers? Public humiliation at that age can be more damaging than physical abuse, and immediately puts you at the mercy of the pack of animals around you. This is the environment these little ones are cast into; children in adult bodies teaching future adults.

This swiftly snuffs out any natural human ability to self-actualize. The teacher is their judge, jury, abuser and bully, and the uninterested father and mother blindly cast these little ones into the mouth of the beast. All mental development to that point (however lacking at this stage of the child's life) is arrested and held in bondage by a culture that tosses aside human self-actualization in favor of "face" and status. Natural selection kicks in, and the child quickly has his or her path charted by a system that bases survival on an "anything goes" style, as long as you come out on top.

Whether by ignorance, infidelity, lack of interest in one's own children, or the Animistic belief that "the boy will find his own path. I can do nothing to change that" are the reasons, I do not see evidence of parents here interacting with their children with a future in mind. With these things in mind, what makes anyone think that English will successfully be "knowledge-transferred" to a demographic that shows no sign of establishing early childhood development, because the parents do not participate in that endeavor?

A lot of these posts are brilliant, and suggest plausible solutions. But how can you explain the color "red" to a man, who has been blind since birth? An education system will only strive to be as excellent as the ones who have a need for it to exist. The parents here do not strive for excellence in their own lives, hence you see the results. We have an education system here that copies other countries, but without the hearts and minds of the parents to be the driving force.

We have an education system that is a corporation, that processes the items, with profit as its only fuel, and no regards for parental input. The schools tell the parents what is and what is not. Instead of people expecting and blindly trusting the corporation to raise their children, fathers and mothers should be the reason that the schools exist. To be stockholders, of sorts, and to make sure that an institution of learning maintains the standards that produce intelligent, literate children, instead of corrupt, money hungry directors and under qualified, jaded, abusive teachers. The parents should tell the schools what to do, and not the other way around.

Any country that condones (as its thousands of years of core belief) behaviors and views such as lying, cheating, backstabbing, racism, illiteracy, discrimination, abuse, violence, nepotism, patricide, corruption on a grand scale, matricide, mutilation, alcoholism, human slavery, sexual impropriety in relationships, avoidance, superstition, "if it's not fun, it"s not worth it", and every other part of the most caustic characteristics of human kind, can never really, truly achieve what their more developed counterparts are achieving. More developed countries have already evolved through these human characteristics, and have, for the most part, subdued these caustic human characteristics in their nature.

For the time being, there will be far too few "Haves" and an obscene number of "Have-nots". Just my opinion, but with a son on the way, this is a chief concern, and I feel I am already doing what a lot of fathers have clearly demonstrated that they never bother to do, or even have an inkling to do; to make a way for my child to begin his life and succeed as a valuable resource, and an intelligent, friendly, strong and wise human being. I do not need a teacher or a director or a policeman or a school to get him there; only their assistance.

I truly believe that this post should be compulsory reading for all parents and future parents of very young children , it is the most well witten in logical expression that I have ever had the honour to read in all of my life . A child goes through the most difficult of learning proccesses in the first year of its life , this should be continued by the parents from the first time it can stand on its own two feet , albeit with the support of a chair or a caring hand .

Thank you for sharing this down to earth thinking proccess to all of us , I have thoughts and actions to add to this at a later time , it runs along the lines of my eldest daughters thinking some 30 odd years ago , when she dunned our government to fund her for a none profit montasouri pre school day care centre that rapidly expanded across two counties , in later years to parental instruction .

I doff my hat .

[mark45y]

This is a very difficult discussion to find a solution, because the end goal is to be able to live out your life with the things you would like, and the security to protect that. This equates out to a reasonable income to accomplish that. Isn't that right, after all? There is way too much importance being given to institutions of learning. That is an error that brings about the downfall of nations. There should be more focus on where the child comes from before he or she enters into these institutions. Thai schools seem to think they have some right to tell parents how to raise their children. Maybe they are right. But where I was raised, the parents told the schools how to raise their children, when these institutions have the children in their keeping; OR ELSE! Not so here.

I am not so sure that Thai people feel that learning English, per se, is going to fit in to their future goals. On the other hand, I am not sure that the Thai people even know what they want themselves. Ask any Thai what their dreams are, and they will stare off into space and say nothing, or they will tell you they want something that is clearly outside of their present capabilities to achieve.

With that last sentence in mind; watch a Thai, and for the most part, they will let 5 or 10 valuable years roll by, and not do one single thing towards achieving that thing they told you they want. Yes; I understand the economical barriers, but that does not even come in to play here. I am talking about minds, and the development of those minds. Where is the genesis of this lack of movement and inspiration; this lack of creative and imaginative reaction of the mind; the "Big Bang" in each individual human being, so to speak? Some wait for it, and some expect it (like the posters here, and the Thai government and their spoken "intentions"), but it never seems to arrive into the minds we all debate, argue and lecture over; the children. Why is that? Can you pour out what has not been put in?

Children age for 6 or 7 years before they ever see a classroom. It is my strong opinion that the development that goes on during those years, with the child's mind, is more critical to that child's successes or failures in his or her life, than the results of what 50 years of what the best schools could ever offer.

I see no father figure here. I do not see, nor know of any evidence, that the fathers interact with their children's hungry, developing minds, and nurture creativity, imagination, inspiration, and the like. Where are the fathers of Thailand? The children that come from families with a loving and dedicated father figure, and a supportive an nurturing mother, are usually well on their way by the time they see their first teacher. It is nothing more than handing a baton over to a capable individual, who sees eye to eye with your needs for the child; someone who builds on what the father and mother began, and not someone who tells the ignorant father and mother what is best for the child and that beating your child will be part of the process. In a near-perfect world, the teacher simply takes over what the father and mother were responsible to begin, and carries on with that. That is because reading, writing, and arithmetic will already have been introduced into the minds of the children. Additionally, fathers who read to their children, create a hunger for knowledge that can never be quenched. Teachers feed that hunger with the fuel of knowledge that only books can provide. A teacher is an extension of the father and mother, and not the other way around.

All I see here is the children learning subconsciously through the common, mind-killing behavior of the adults. Children here see knees, and rarely eyes. Humans need eye contact in their mental development in order to build resolve, constitution, confidence, self-esteem, and self-image. I do not see any methods engaged by this country, or its families, that helps find a child's learning aptitude and style, and develop it before they enter school. Regrettably, the child enters school, an unprepared victim, fully unawares of their positive and negative learning abilities, completely lacking the knowledge and support of the father, and they immediately get hit by a tsunami of culture that condones racism, discrimination, humiliation, abuse and fear. One wrong move or word, and you get momentary blindness from the switch, or an ear or hair pulled, or a cuff to the side of the head. What can be more humiliating and damaging to a child than to have a teacher call you a derogatory name in front of your peers? Public humiliation at that age can be more damaging than physical abuse, and immediately puts you at the mercy of the pack of animals around you. This is the environment these little ones are cast into; children in adult bodies teaching future adults.

This swiftly snuffs out any natural human ability to self-actualize. The teacher is their judge, jury, abuser and bully, and the uninterested father and mother blindly cast these little ones into the mouth of the beast. All mental development to that point (however lacking at this stage of the child's life) is arrested and held in bondage by a culture that tosses aside human self-actualization in favor of "face" and status. Natural selection kicks in, and the child quickly has his or her path charted by a system that bases survival on an "anything goes" style, as long as you come out on top.

Whether by ignorance, infidelity, lack of interest in one's own children, or the Animistic belief that "the boy will find his own path. I can do nothing to change that" are the reasons, I do not see evidence of parents here interacting with their children with a future in mind. With these things in mind, what makes anyone think that English will successfully be "knowledge-transferred" to a demographic that shows no sign of establishing early childhood development, because the parents do not participate in that endeavor?

A lot of these posts are brilliant, and suggest plausible solutions. But how can you explain the color "red" to a man, who has been blind since birth? An education system will only strive to be as excellent as the ones who have a need for it to exist. The parents here do not strive for excellence in their own lives, hence you see the results. We have an education system here that copies other countries, but without the hearts and minds of the parents to be the driving force.

We have an education system that is a corporation, that processes the items, with profit as its only fuel, and no regards for parental input. The schools tell the parents what is and what is not. Instead of people expecting and blindly trusting the corporation to raise their children, fathers and mothers should be the reason that the schools exist. To be stockholders, of sorts, and to make sure that an institution of learning maintains the standards that produce intelligent, literate children, instead of corrupt, money hungry directors and under qualified, jaded, abusive teachers. The parents should tell the schools what to do, and not the other way around.

Any country that condones (as its thousands of years of core belief) behaviors and views such as lying, cheating, backstabbing, racism, illiteracy, discrimination, abuse, violence, nepotism, patricide, corruption on a grand scale, matricide, mutilation, alcoholism, human slavery, sexual impropriety in relationships, avoidance, superstition, "if it's not fun, it"s not worth it", and every other part of the most caustic characteristics of human kind, can never really, truly achieve what their more developed counterparts are achieving. More developed countries have already evolved through these human characteristics, and have, for the most part, subdued these caustic human characteristics in their nature.

For the time being, there will be far too few "Haves" and an obscene number of "Have-nots". Just my opinion, but with a son on the way, this is a chief concern, and I feel I am already doing what a lot of fathers have clearly demonstrated that they never bother to do, or even have an inkling to do; to make a way for my child to begin his life and succeed as a valuable resource, and an intelligent, friendly, strong and wise human being. I do not need a teacher or a director or a policeman or a school to get him there; only their assistance.

It is difficult to lend any credence to your post when you make such a large error in fact and demonstrate to all that you have no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai school system.

You claim that children age for 6 or 7 years before they see the inside of a classroom.

Not in Thailand. Government schools start at 3 years old everywhere I have been.

Maybe you should get out and look at some Thai schools before you talk about the Thai educational system. I assume your post refers to some other countries school system.

[jcbangkok]

This is a very difficult discussion to find a solution, because the end goal is to be able to live out your life with the things you would like, and the security to protect that. This equates out to a reasonable income to accomplish that. Isn't that right, after all? There is way too much importance being given to institutions of learning. That is an error that brings about the downfall of nations. There should be more focus on where the child comes from before he or she enters into these institutions. Thai schools seem to think they have some right to tell parents how to raise their children. Maybe they are right. But where I was raised, the parents told the schools how to raise their children, when these institutions have the children in their keeping; OR ELSE! Not so here.

I am not so sure that Thai people feel that learning English, per se, is going to fit in to their future goals. On the other hand, I am not sure that the Thai people even know what they want themselves. Ask any Thai what their dreams are, and they will stare off into space and say nothing, or they will tell you they want something that is clearly outside of their present capabilities to achieve.

With that last sentence in mind; watch a Thai, and for the most part, they will let 5 or 10 valuable years roll by, and not do one single thing towards achieving that thing they told you they want. Yes; I understand the economical barriers, but that does not even come in to play here. I am talking about minds, and the development of those minds. Where is the genesis of this lack of movement and inspiration; this lack of creative and imaginative reaction of the mind; the "Big Bang" in each individual human being, so to speak? Some wait for it, and some expect it (like the posters here, and the Thai government and their spoken "intentions"), but it never seems to arrive into the minds we all debate, argue and lecture over; the children. Why is that? Can you pour out what has not been put in?

Children age for 6 or 7 years before they ever see a classroom. It is my strong opinion that the development that goes on during those years, with the child's mind, is more critical to that child's successes or failures in his or her life, than the results of what 50 years of what the best schools could ever offer.

I see no father figure here. I do not see, nor know of any evidence, that the fathers interact with their children's hungry, developing minds, and nurture creativity, imagination, inspiration, and the like. Where are the fathers of Thailand? The children that come from families with a loving and dedicated father figure, and a supportive an nurturing mother, are usually well on their way by the time they see their first teacher. It is nothing more than handing a baton over to a capable individual, who sees eye to eye with your needs for the child; someone who builds on what the father and mother began, and not someone who tells the ignorant father and mother what is best for the child and that beating your child will be part of the process. In a near-perfect world, the teacher simply takes over what the father and mother were responsible to begin, and carries on with that. That is because reading, writing, and arithmetic will already have been introduced into the minds of the children. Additionally, fathers who read to their children, create a hunger for knowledge that can never be quenched. Teachers feed that hunger with the fuel of knowledge that only books can provide. A teacher is an extension of the father and mother, and not the other way around.

All I see here is the children learning subconsciously through the common, mind-killing behavior of the adults. Children here see knees, and rarely eyes. Humans need eye contact in their mental development in order to build resolve, constitution, confidence, self-esteem, and self-image. I do not see any methods engaged by this country, or its families, that helps find a child's learning aptitude and style, and develop it before they enter school. Regrettably, the child enters school, an unprepared victim, fully unawares of their positive and negative learning abilities, completely lacking the knowledge and support of the father, and they immediately get hit by a tsunami of culture that condones racism, discrimination, humiliation, abuse and fear. One wrong move or word, and you get momentary blindness from the switch, or an ear or hair pulled, or a cuff to the side of the head. What can be more humiliating and damaging to a child than to have a teacher call you a derogatory name in front of your peers? Public humiliation at that age can be more damaging than physical abuse, and immediately puts you at the mercy of the pack of animals around you. This is the environment these little ones are cast into; children in adult bodies teaching future adults.

This swiftly snuffs out any natural human ability to self-actualize. The teacher is their judge, jury, abuser and bully, and the uninterested father and mother blindly cast these little ones into the mouth of the beast. All mental development to that point (however lacking at this stage of the child's life) is arrested and held in bondage by a culture that tosses aside human self-actualization in favor of "face" and status. Natural selection kicks in, and the child quickly has his or her path charted by a system that bases survival on an "anything goes" style, as long as you come out on top.

Whether by ignorance, infidelity, lack of interest in one's own children, or the Animistic belief that "the boy will find his own path. I can do nothing to change that" are the reasons, I do not see evidence of parents here interacting with their children with a future in mind. With these things in mind, what makes anyone think that English will successfully be "knowledge-transferred" to a demographic that shows no sign of establishing early childhood development, because the parents do not participate in that endeavor?

A lot of these posts are brilliant, and suggest plausible solutions. But how can you explain the color "red" to a man, who has been blind since birth? An education system will only strive to be as excellent as the ones who have a need for it to exist. The parents here do not strive for excellence in their own lives, hence you see the results. We have an education system here that copies other countries, but without the hearts and minds of the parents to be the driving force.

We have an education system that is a corporation, that processes the items, with profit as its only fuel, and no regards for parental input. The schools tell the parents what is and what is not. Instead of people expecting and blindly trusting the corporation to raise their children, fathers and mothers should be the reason that the schools exist. To be stockholders, of sorts, and to make sure that an institution of learning maintains the standards that produce intelligent, literate children, instead of corrupt, money hungry directors and under qualified, jaded, abusive teachers. The parents should tell the schools what to do, and not the other way around.

Any country that condones (as its thousands of years of core belief) behaviors and views such as lying, cheating, backstabbing, racism, illiteracy, discrimination, abuse, violence, nepotism, patricide, corruption on a grand scale, matricide, mutilation, alcoholism, human slavery, sexual impropriety in relationships, avoidance, superstition, "if it's not fun, it"s not worth it", and every other part of the most caustic characteristics of human kind, can never really, truly achieve what their more developed counterparts are achieving. More developed countries have already evolved through these human characteristics, and have, for the most part, subdued these caustic human characteristics in their nature.

For the time being, there will be far too few "Haves" and an obscene number of "Have-nots". Just my opinion, but with a son on the way, this is a chief concern, and I feel I am already doing what a lot of fathers have clearly demonstrated that they never bother to do, or even have an inkling to do; to make a way for my child to begin his life and succeed as a valuable resource, and an intelligent, friendly, strong and wise human being. I do not need a teacher or a director or a policeman or a school to get him there; only their assistance.

It is difficult to lend any credence to your post when you make such a large error in fact and demonstrate to all that you have no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai school system.

You claim that children age for 6 or 7 years before they see the inside of a classroom.

Not in Thailand. Government schools start at 3 years old everywhere I have been.

Maybe you should get out and look at some Thai schools before you talk about the Thai educational system. I assume your post refers to some other countries school system.

Actually I do believe PUBLIC / FREE schools start at 6-years old in Thailand. However, many parents, especially in the BKK area, start their kids early in fee based schools. This may be why you see many 3-year olds going to school.

Edit: I also believe the government may provide pre / nursery type schools prior to age 6 but it is not compulsory to attend. It is not part of the government required attendance for 6 to 15 year olds.

Edited October 12, 2010 by jcbangkok

[mark45y]

Every government school I know of in Thailand starts free education at 3 years old. 3 years old is Anuban 1.

I have only taught a few of them so I am not an expert. But these were poor government schools. I can't imagine the people paying for them. Perhaps some teachers can correct me but as far as I know Anuban 1,2,3 is free and universal in Thailand.

[jcbangkok]

Every government school I know of in Thailand starts free education at 3 years old. 3 years old is Anuban 1.

I have only taught a few of them so I am not an expert. But these were poor government schools. I can't imagine the people paying for them. Perhaps some teachers can correct me but as far as I know Anuban 1,2,3 is free and universal in Thailand.

I am not saying this is the gold standard of info but here is a link to Wikipedia that seems to explain it ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Thailand

Some quotes ...

The school structure is divided into four key stages: the first three years in elementary school, Prathom 1 - 3, are for age groups 6 to 8, the second level, Prathom 4 through 6 are for age groups 9 to 11, the third level, Matthayom 1 - 3, is for age groups 12 to 14. The upper secondary level of schooling consists of Matthayom 4 - 6, for age groups 15 to 17 and is divided into academic and vocational streams

Village and sub-district schools usually provide pre-school kindergarten (anuban) and elementary classes, while in the district towns, schools will serve their areas with comprehensive schools with all the classes from kindergarten to age 14, and separate secondary schools for ages 11 through 17.

Due to budgetary limitations, rural schools are generally less well equipped than the schools in the cities and the standard of instruction, particularly for the English language, is much lower, and many high school students will commute 60 - 80 kilometres to schools in the nearest city.

------------

The government has long realised the importance of the English language as a major core subject in schools, and it has been a compulsory subject at varying levels for several decades. Since 2005 schools are being encouraged to establish bilingual departments where the core subjects are taught in English, and to offer intensive English language programmes.

Notwithstanding the extensive use of, and exposure to English in everyday life in Thailand, the standard of correct English in the schools is now the lowest in Southeast Asia. In 1997 Thailand was still in the forefront, but by 2001 Laos and Vietnam had caught up, and by mid 2006 were clearly ahead.

[mark45y]

Every government school I know of in Thailand starts free education at 3 years old. 3 years old is Anuban 1.

I have only taught a few of them so I am not an expert. But these were poor government schools. I can't imagine the people paying for them. Perhaps some teachers can correct me but as far as I know Anuban 1,2,3 is free and universal in Thailand.

I am not saying this is the gold standard of info but here is a link to Wikipedia that seems to explain it ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Thailand

Some quotes ...

The school structure is divided into four key stages: the first three years in elementary school, Prathom 1 - 3, are for age groups 6 to 8, the second level, Prathom 4 through 6 are for age groups 9 to 11, the third level, Matthayom 1 - 3, is for age groups 12 to 14. The upper secondary level of schooling consists of Matthayom 4 - 6, for age groups 15 to 17 and is divided into academic and vocational streams

Village and sub-district schools usually provide pre-school kindergarten (anuban) and elementary classes, while in the district towns, schools will serve their areas with comprehensive schools with all the classes from kindergarten to age 14, and separate secondary schools for ages 11 through 17.

Due to budgetary limitations, rural schools are generally less well equipped than the schools in the cities and the standard of instruction, particularly for the English language, is much lower, and many high school students will commute 60 - 80 kilometres to schools in the nearest city.

------------

The government has long realised the importance of the English language as a major core subject in schools, and it has been a compulsory subject at varying levels for several decades. Since 2005 schools are being encouraged to establish bilingual departments where the core subjects are taught in English, and to offer intensive English language programmes.

Notwithstanding the extensive use of, and exposure to English in everyday life in Thailand, the standard of correct English in the schools is now the lowest in Southeast Asia. In 1997 Thailand was still in the forefront, but by 2001 Laos and Vietnam had caught up, and by mid 2006 were clearly ahead.

It's not Prathom. It is Anuban. Look up Anuban.

[robsamui]

They can worry about second languages as soon as children get a good grasp of Thai.

I am continually astonished just how many Thai people I meet who can not read and write their own language.

Some years ago I was in correspondence with the Head of English at one of the BKK universities and was equally astonished at her shoddy grasp of grammar. When it came to punctuation her confidence extended as far as a full stop and a comma. On the other hand this was written English and I've met many Thai (and English!) people who's spoken English was fine but couldn't put it down on paper.

I would have thought that making full-time education compulsory in the first place would have been a more logical step: there's not a lot of point in teaching anything if the parents are not hassled for allowing/encouraging the kids to stay off school ...

R

[DickFarang]

For many Thai citizens, perhaps the majority, Thai is their second language and they cannot read and write their mother tongue due to the education system and the different scripts.

[SkyHigh]

Do you all realize what would happen if the average Thai were able to read and speak English?

The INTERNET would be available to the average Thai and not just the Thai boy girl sites.

News would be available.

History would be available.

The genie would be out of the lamp never to return.

China is just figuring this out. Hence banning Google.

Can you imagine a well informed Thai person!

Folks, if everyone was able to read just a little English things would change drastically.

It is not about jobs. It is about freedom of speech. It is about the old elite being tossed on the trash heap never to recover.

Our small discussions about teaching technique are not the issue. It is an issue of class warfare. Do people have the right to vote or do they need a father figure to lead them to the promised land?

Luckily the old elites don't speak English or if they do it is only to read advertisements for Gucci bags.

They are so wound up in petty grievances that they won't even realize what is happening until it happens and then they will have to hire English consultants to tell them why it happened.

The first coup after the majority of the population reads English will end in revolution and no one will know why.

The top is so isolated from the bottom that neither understands the other.

English could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I really love this comment.

For more info.

Free education program by Gov start at 3Y til M6.

Normally, Thais study English 12 years.

The result is what you already know.

Talking to Thai teacher for year is NOT going to help any.

Talking to REAL Englishman is the only way out.

Otherwise we can expect Thais who can read but cant speak.

[DickFarang]

Do you all realize what would happen if the average Thai were able to read and speak English?

The INTERNET would be available to the average Thai and not just the Thai boy girl sites.

News would be available.

History would be available.

The genie would be out of the lamp never to return.

China is just figuring this out. Hence banning Google.

Can you imagine a well informed Thai person!

Folks, if everyone was able to read just a little English things would change drastically.

It is not about jobs. It is about freedom of speech. It is about the old elite being tossed on the trash heap never to recover.

Our small discussions about teaching technique are not the issue. It is an issue of class warfare. Do people have the right to vote or do they need a father figure to lead them to the promised land?

Luckily the old elites don't speak English or if they do it is only to read advertisements for Gucci bags.

They are so wound up in petty grievances that they won't even realize what is happening until it happens and then they will have to hire English consultants to tell them why it happened.

The first coup after the majority of the population reads English will end in revolution and no one will know why.

The top is so isolated from the bottom that neither understands the other.

English could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

So true.

[mark45y]

Do you all realize what would happen if the average Thai were able to read and speak English?

The INTERNET would be available to the average Thai and not just the Thai boy girl sites.

News would be available.

History would be available.

The genie would be out of the lamp never to return.

China is just figuring this out. Hence banning Google.

Can you imagine a well informed Thai person!

Folks, if everyone was able to read just a little English things would change drastically.

It is not about jobs. It is about freedom of speech. It is about the old elite being tossed on the trash heap never to recover.

Our small discussions about teaching technique are not the issue. It is an issue of class warfare. Do people have the right to vote or do they need a father figure to lead them to the promised land?

Luckily the old elites don't speak English or if they do it is only to read advertisements for Gucci bags.

They are so wound up in petty grievances that they won't even realize what is happening until it happens and then they will have to hire English consultants to tell them why it happened.

The first coup after the majority of the population reads English will end in revolution and no one will know why.

The top is so isolated from the bottom that neither understands the other.

English could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I really love this comment.

For more info.

Free education program by Gov start at 3Y til M6.

Normally, Thais study English 12 years.

The result is what you already know.

Talking to Thai teacher for year is NOT going to help any.

Talking to REAL Englishman is the only way out.

Otherwise we can expect Thais who can read but cant speak.

Thank you for verifying that school starts at 3 years old in Thailand. I have been to over 50 Thai grade schools and have always seen children attending kindergarten at 3 years old. I have even taught a few classes. If that's what you can call it.

The kids are easy to spot they wear two sided bibs.

Since Anuban/Kindergarten exists in every grade school I wonder at how a poster could claim to know anything about Thai education and not know that simple fact.

It is easy to teach Anuban vocabulary. And nothing short of amazing that they don't have trouble with the “R” sound. Or the “Th” sound.

Rice is rice and not lice. It is almost worth putting up with the negatives of teaching kindergarten just to hear rice pronounced correctly and without effort.

And they speak Thai so clearly and without accent it is easy to understand them.

If anyone really wanted Thailand to speak English the framework is ready and waiting.

I would think long and hard about the decision though.

I really don't think the country is ready.

I will probably live another 10 years or so. Do me a favor and wait a bit. I really like things the way they are now even with all the problems. I realize this is a selfish wish, but I'm an old guy and I don't want to move anymore.

[SergeiY]

Do you all realize what would happen if the average Thai were able to read and speak English?

The INTERNET would be available to the average Thai and not just the Thai boy girl sites.

News would be available.

History would be available.

The genie would be out of the lamp never to return.

China is just figuring this out. Hence banning Google.

Can you imagine a well informed Thai person!

Folks, if everyone was able to read just a little English things would change drastically.

It is not about jobs. It is about freedom of speech. It is about the old elite being tossed on the trash heap never to recover.

Our small discussions about teaching technique are not the issue. It is an issue of class warfare. Do people have the right to vote or do they need a father figure to lead them to the promised land?

Luckily the old elites don't speak English or if they do it is only to read advertisements for Gucci bags.

They are so wound up in petty grievances that they won't even realize what is happening until it happens and then they will have to hire English consultants to tell them why it happened.

The first coup after the majority of the population reads English will end in revolution and no one will know why.

The top is so isolated from the bottom that neither understands the other.

English could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

So true.

Nonsense.

a) the internet is for porn, globally, in every language and everybody knows that and

do the cross check - are English speaking countries with their English Internet full of mega brains and the most intelligent human on the planet? No, of course not.

look here: http://www.google.com/trends

Don't tell me you work as teachers here ...

[jcbangkok]

Do you all realize what would happen if the average Thai were able to read and speak English?

The INTERNET would be available to the average Thai and not just the Thai boy girl sites.

News would be available.

History would be available.

The genie would be out of the lamp never to return.

China is just figuring this out. Hence banning Google.

Can you imagine a well informed Thai person!

Folks, if everyone was able to read just a little English things would change drastically.

It is not about jobs. It is about freedom of speech. It is about the old elite being tossed on the trash heap never to recover.

Our small discussions about teaching technique are not the issue. It is an issue of class warfare. Do people have the right to vote or do they need a father figure to lead them to the promised land?

Luckily the old elites don't speak English or if they do it is only to read advertisements for Gucci bags.

They are so wound up in petty grievances that they won't even realize what is happening until it happens and then they will have to hire English consultants to tell them why it happened.

The first coup after the majority of the population reads English will end in revolution and no one will know why.

The top is so isolated from the bottom that neither understands the other.

English could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

I really love this comment.

For more info.

Free education program by Gov start at 3Y til M6.

Normally, Thais study English 12 years.

The result is what you already know.

Talking to Thai teacher for year is NOT going to help any.

Talking to REAL Englishman is the only way out.

Otherwise we can expect Thais who can read but cant speak.

Thank you for verifying that school starts at 3 years old in Thailand. I have been to over 50 Thai grade schools and have always seen children attending kindergarten at 3 years old. I have even taught a few classes. If that's what you can call it.

The kids are easy to spot they wear two sided bibs.

Since Anuban/Kindergarten exists in every grade school I wonder at how a poster could claim to know anything about Thai education and not know that simple fact.

It is easy to teach Anuban vocabulary. And nothing short of amazing that they don't have trouble with the "R" sound. Or the "Th" sound.

Rice is rice and not lice. It is almost worth putting up with the negatives of teaching kindergarten just to hear rice pronounced correctly and without effort.

And they speak Thai so clearly and without accent it is easy to understand them.

If anyone really wanted Thailand to speak English the framework is ready and waiting.

I would think long and hard about the decision though.

I really don't think the country is ready.

I will probably live another 10 years or so. Do me a favor and wait a bit. I really like things the way they are now even with all the problems. I realize this is a selfish wish, but I'm an old guy and I don't want to move anymore.

You are twisting things a bit. Although kids may attend school at 3-years old in most places, it is not mandatory. Mandatory education starts at 6-years old. So, the truth is schooling starts at 6 years old but pre-school/ kindergarten classes are also offered to parents in many areas for kids as young as 3-years old. Public schooling in Thailand is only compulsory for kids 6 to 15 years old. However, there are government schooling options outside these ages.

[cup-O-coffee]

This is a very difficult discussion to find a solution, because the end goal is to be able to live out your life with the things you would like, and the security to protect that. This equates out to a reasonable income to accomplish that. Isn't that right, after all? There is way too much importance being given to institutions of learning. That is an error that brings about the downfall of nations. There should be more focus on where the child comes from before he or she enters into these institutions. Thai schools seem to think they have some right to tell parents how to raise their children. Maybe they are right. But where I was raised, the parents told the schools how to raise their children, when these institutions have the children in their keeping; OR ELSE! Not so here.

I am not so sure that Thai people feel that learning English, per se, is going to fit in to their future goals. On the other hand, I am not sure that the Thai people even know what they want themselves. Ask any Thai what their dreams are, and they will stare off into space and say nothing, or they will tell you they want something that is clearly outside of their present capabilities to achieve.

With that last sentence in mind; watch a Thai, and for the most part, they will let 5 or 10 valuable years roll by, and not do one single thing towards achieving that thing they told you they want. Yes; I understand the economical barriers, but that does not even come in to play here. I am talking about minds, and the development of those minds. Where is the genesis of this lack of movement and inspiration; this lack of creative and imaginative reaction of the mind; the "Big Bang" in each individual human being, so to speak? Some wait for it, and some expect it (like the posters here, and the Thai government and their spoken "intentions"), but it never seems to arrive into the minds we all debate, argue and lecture over; the children. Why is that? Can you pour out what has not been put in?

Children age for 6 or 7 years before they ever see a classroom. It is my strong opinion that the development that goes on during those years, with the child's mind, is more critical to that child's successes or failures in his or her life, than the results of what 50 years of what the best schools could ever offer.

I see no father figure here. I do not see, nor know of any evidence, that the fathers interact with their children's hungry, developing minds, and nurture creativity, imagination, inspiration, and the like. Where are the fathers of Thailand? The children that come from families with a loving and dedicated father figure, and a supportive an nurturing mother, are usually well on their way by the time they see their first teacher. It is nothing more than handing a baton over to a capable individual, who sees eye to eye with your needs for the child; someone who builds on what the father and mother began, and not someone who tells the ignorant father and mother what is best for the child and that beating your child will be part of the process. In a near-perfect world, the teacher simply takes over what the father and mother were responsible to begin, and carries on with that. That is because reading, writing, and arithmetic will already have been introduced into the minds of the children. Additionally, fathers who read to their children, create a hunger for knowledge that can never be quenched. Teachers feed that hunger with the fuel of knowledge that only books can provide. A teacher is an extension of the father and mother, and not the other way around.

All I see here is the children learning subconsciously through the common, mind-killing behavior of the adults. Children here see knees, and rarely eyes. Humans need eye contact in their mental development in order to build resolve, constitution, confidence, self-esteem, and self-image. I do not see any methods engaged by this country, or its families, that helps find a child's learning aptitude and style, and develop it before they enter school. Regrettably, the child enters school, an unprepared victim, fully unawares of their positive and negative learning abilities, completely lacking the knowledge and support of the father, and they immediately get hit by a tsunami of culture that condones racism, discrimination, humiliation, abuse and fear. One wrong move or word, and you get momentary blindness from the switch, or an ear or hair pulled, or a cuff to the side of the head. What can be more humiliating and damaging to a child than to have a teacher call you a derogatory name in front of your peers? Public humiliation at that age can be more damaging than physical abuse, and immediately puts you at the mercy of the pack of animals around you. This is the environment these little ones are cast into; children in adult bodies teaching future adults.

This swiftly snuffs out any natural human ability to self-actualize. The teacher is their judge, jury, abuser and bully, and the uninterested father and mother blindly cast these little ones into the mouth of the beast. All mental development to that point (however lacking at this stage of the child's life) is arrested and held in bondage by a culture that tosses aside human self-actualization in favor of "face" and status. Natural selection kicks in, and the child quickly has his or her path charted by a system that bases survival on an "anything goes" style, as long as you come out on top.

Whether by ignorance, infidelity, lack of interest in one's own children, or the Animistic belief that "the boy will find his own path. I can do nothing to change that" are the reasons, I do not see evidence of parents here interacting with their children with a future in mind. With these things in mind, what makes anyone think that English will successfully be "knowledge-transferred" to a demographic that shows no sign of establishing early childhood development, because the parents do not participate in that endeavor?

A lot of these posts are brilliant, and suggest plausible solutions. But how can you explain the color "red" to a man, who has been blind since birth? An education system will only strive to be as excellent as the ones who have a need for it to exist. The parents here do not strive for excellence in their own lives, hence you see the results. We have an education system here that copies other countries, but without the hearts and minds of the parents to be the driving force.

We have an education system that is a corporation, that processes the items, with profit as its only fuel, and no regards for parental input. The schools tell the parents what is and what is not. Instead of people expecting and blindly trusting the corporation to raise their children, fathers and mothers should be the reason that the schools exist. To be stockholders, of sorts, and to make sure that an institution of learning maintains the standards that produce intelligent, literate children, instead of corrupt, money hungry directors and under qualified, jaded, abusive teachers. The parents should tell the schools what to do, and not the other way around.

Any country that condones (as its thousands of years of core belief) behaviors and views such as lying, cheating, backstabbing, racism, illiteracy, discrimination, abuse, violence, nepotism, patricide, corruption on a grand scale, matricide, mutilation, alcoholism, human slavery, sexual impropriety in relationships, avoidance, superstition, "if it's not fun, it"s not worth it", and every other part of the most caustic characteristics of human kind, can never really, truly achieve what their more developed counterparts are achieving. More developed countries have already evolved through these human characteristics, and have, for the most part, subdued these caustic human characteristics in their nature.

For the time being, there will be far too few "Haves" and an obscene number of "Have-nots". Just my opinion, but with a son on the way, this is a chief concern, and I feel I am already doing what a lot of fathers have clearly demonstrated that they never bother to do, or even have an inkling to do; to make a way for my child to begin his life and succeed as a valuable resource, and an intelligent, friendly, strong and wise human being. I do not need a teacher or a director or a policeman or a school to get him there; only their assistance.

It is difficult to lend any credence to your post when you make such a large error in fact and demonstrate to all that you have no knowledge of Thailand or the Thai school system.

You claim that children age for 6 or 7 years before they see the inside of a classroom.

Not in Thailand. Government schools start at 3 years old everywhere I have been.

Maybe you should get out and look at some Thai schools before you talk about the Thai educational system. I assume your post refers to some other countries school system.

Actually I do believe PUBLIC / FREE schools start at 6-years old in Thailand. However, many parents, especially in the BKK area, start their kids early in fee based schools. This may be why you see many 3-year olds going to school.

Edit: I also believe the government may provide pre / nursery type schools prior to age 6 but it is not compulsory to attend. It is not part of the government required attendance for 6 to 15 year olds.

Who cares what color Captain Ahab's hair was? You aren't even on the pitch here. Maybe you should exclude any possibility that I may be right before expressing your view? You are wrong, and for a few reasons:

What you call the pre / nursery type schools, are in fact nothing more than glorified day care for parents who do not have time for their children. How can I say this? It is easy to see when these kids grow up and STILL have nothing to show for their "head start" at school. Yes; I am saying these pre-schools provide no benefit at all other than freeing up time for the parents to not have to raise their children. Thai test scores all across the land are still ranked one of the lowest in the world. Thai Uni grads are still incompetent in speaking English, and general imaginative and creative skills, not to mention a plethora of other topics that make them incompetent to get a job overseas outside of general, low-skilled labor employment.

You are barking up the wrong tree, and ignorantly pointing out something that is not my main point. My main point is parental lack of responsibility, duty, and engagement with their own offspring. This is augmented by the lack of fathers playing the important role that every child needs in their mental development. Thanks for you view, but please do not split hairs over something that is not concrete, and digresses from the point that a poster is indulging in.

Edited October 15, 2010 by cup-O-coffee

[mark45y]

To cup o coffee,

My point is that Anuban teaches Thai children English starting at 3 years old.

The structure is there and ready to be improved.

Anuban is the place to begin quality English education.

It would be very easy to implement.

How do I know this? Because of similar programs in other countries.

Sorry if I picked on you for not being well informed about the Thai education system. But if you don't know about Anuban you are not well informed.

Thai parents are not uncaring. I have seen hundreds of parents who were very concerned about their children's education.

As a Foreign teacher I have been paraded in front of too many general assembly's not to know that a native English speaker is perceived as a better English teacher.

I didn't want to teach Anuban, nor was I forced to because of a babysitting role. The parents of the Anuban children wanted to improve the English language ability of their 3 to 6 year old children. They realized the sponge like ability of a very young child at picking up another language.

So you are wrong. Thai parents are concerned and want better schools and better English language capability and complain to school administrations about it constantly. If you knew something about the Thai education system you would know this.

The problem is not with the parents it is with the funding and administrations.

My suggestion would be if you are really interested in Thai education that you get in the system and teach for a while. Then you will be able to separate the fact from the fiction and not just repeat the old cliche about university graduates not being able to speak English.

[inmysights]

Facebook is blocked and you convienantly left out that I wrote it was a minor grievance

[unquote]

I keep seeing this but I've never had any problem accessing it?! Wish I did, would then stop erstwhile friends from aeons ago attempting to contact me with page upon page of mindless drivel.

[cup-O-coffee]

Very true. I currently teach multinational young adults and the Thais are among the better students. The Chinese and Arabs are lazy, the Taiwanese are a bit crazy, the Japs are nice and the South Americans are mostly very keen. Nationality has nothing to do with ability though, only motivation.

Though you sound well intentioned enough, it is my opinion that you are really not telling me anything here. This OP centers around Thai pupils in Thai schools; mostly low income and poor families with single parents, or grandmothers raising the kids. Describing a multi-national school environment is like describing the "haves" and "have-nots". There is not much of a correlation, in my opinion.

Regarding your support of your Thai students, "better" could more likely be construed as the "better" Thais being outnumbered in their class by other Asian races, and therefore the Thai culture kicking in and making them appear "better". This would translate to me that they are afraid to appear stupid by saying something, and get laughed at by a Chinese, Arab, Taiwanese, Japanese and South American student. The Thais have a social structure that does not allow the poor person to get ahead. The rich are up on the top of Mount Olympus, and they do not like the idea of the valley dwellers climbing up the slopes to compete with them at the top. The point is that the Thais can not play their "I am superior to you" games with foreign children, and I believe that makes them go into a shell and appear "better". After all, everyone knows that the word Thai and the word Confrontation create a fight-or-flight scenario in the mind's eye.

This is my experience with Thais. Fight-or-flight; literally or figuratively. When they are outnumbered, or you have them by the curly hairs (under the thumb) they behave. When they think they are one-up on you, beware! Only a person about to be taken for a ride, or who is vulnerable, or who does not exercise caution when dealing with Thais, would think otherwise.

Nationality infers culture. Culture dictates behavior, generally speaking. Judging by the scale of each of these county's GDP, it would be fair to say that "better" does not indicate skill, ability, and performance. Out in the world, there are a lot more Chinese, Arab, Taiwanese, Japanese and South American employees supervising Thai workers, than the other way around. That same observation is applied to the casual descriptions of lazy, crazy, nice and keen. Maybe the lazy, crazy, nice and keen are symptoms of curriculum that is below their skill levels? I do not know. Maybe they are bored?

Which demographic score highest on exams, and which scores lowest? Additionally, a multi-national school is not the most inexpensive school to attend. This indicates that most students will be offspring of wealthy parents. Wealth, also, has nothing to do with ability, but it has everything to do with opportunity. I would really like to know your answer to the scores question. That tells me if the rich kids are qualified due to their performed mental achievement, or certified, due to daddy and mommy buying them a certificate of achievement.

A quick note on that query. I do know that most foreigners, here on contract with a corporation (if the case may be), have a requirement written into their contract that states their children must meet certain achievements in school. So, therein lies the motivation for the lazy, crazy, nice and keen foreign students. What about the "better" Thai students in your multi-national school? What happens to them if they perform sub standard. Do you get to fail them? I would be respectfully interested in the answer to that? I think I already know the answer since, to my knowledge, I have never heard of a Thai failing out of a school, when the parents coffers are deep.

Internationally speaking, which demographic gets the highest paying jobs? Which demographic gets the manual labor, low paying employment? Which demographic does not care because they already know their future is secured on daddy and mommy's pocketbook? Poor kids lose interest because they have no hope, and nothing to show for it. Rich kids lose interest because they have a bank account, MP3, Blackberry, Yamaha Nouvo, their own bedroom, TV, PC, Laptop, etc. That is about the only way I have of defining your comment, unless you specify test scores, and what type of tests they are participating in. Test scores set all income levels apart, and defines the person and the likely future they will have; but only if their cultural social class will allow a poor person to rise through the glass ceilings that oppress their ability to rise.

In a perfect world, stupid is as stupid does. It should not matter if the kid is wearing dirty clothes or Armani. What should matter to the benefit of a country wishing to rise to the status of "Developed" is who has the skill, regardless of social status. Regrettably, once born into a poor family in this country, you are condemned to climb a ladder that has had many rungs removed; indeed, even discouraged from climbing that ladder at all. The sad thing is that this mentality begins being indoctrinated into the child at the source; the family. The poor should stay poor is the message I get from this culture. The lack of resources and child-testing and interest is indicative. The manner in which institutions and money suckers fall over themselves to coral rich kids is ludicrous. The manner in which these same people discriminate against poor people is outrageous. It is the money, and nothing about the potential of the child.

Accept your place in life. It becomes an excuse for slothfulness and stagnation. Regrettable at the poverty end, and reprehensible at the wealthy end of the pay scale.

[cup-O-coffee]

To cup o coffee,

My point is that Anuban teaches Thai children English starting at 3 years old.

The structure is there and ready to be improved.

Anuban is the place to begin quality English education.

It would be very easy to implement.

How do I know this? Because of similar programs in other countries.

Sorry if I picked on you for not being well informed about the Thai education system. But if you don't know about Anuban you are not well informed.

Thai parents are not uncaring. I have seen hundreds of parents who were very concerned about their children's education.

As a Foreign teacher I have been paraded in front of too many general assembly's not to know that a native English speaker is perceived as a better English teacher.

I didn't want to teach Anuban, nor was I forced to because of a babysitting role. The parents of the Anuban children wanted to improve the English language ability of their 3 to 6 year old children. They realized the sponge like ability of a very young child at picking up another language.

So you are wrong. Thai parents are concerned and want better schools and better English language capability and complain to school administrations about it constantly. If you knew something about the Thai education system you would know this.

The problem is not with the parents it is with the funding and administrations.

My suggestion would be if you are really interested in Thai education that you get in the system and teach for a while. Then you will be able to separate the fact from the fiction and not just repeat the old cliche about university graduates not being able to speak English.

Well, Marky45y, you lean towards separating fact from fiction, but you sure sound like an idealist to me. I really respect that, seriously. Here's a little fiction I get from your views. I hope you do not mind my views towards you decent and good intentions.

"My point is that Anuban teaches Thai children English starting at 3 years old. I contend. Anuban accepts children and gets them to "parrot". I've seen the "similar" tests and there is nothing to measure comprehension; only the ability to "parrot".

The structure is there and ready to be improved. There are a lot of structures in place in Thailand. I have seen what the Thais do to any functional structure after a few years, or even a few weeks, once it is handed over to their control.

Anuban is the place to begin quality English education. As you say, how come I have never heard about this sensational school?

It would be very easy to implement. Why do you suggest something that is, and then imply that more still needs to be done? It sounds like my views are being supported by lack of implementation of a foreign structure, that we foreigners say is "easy to do". Apparently, the Thais disagree, or else your points would be based upon something that already is, instead of something that needs to be. This does not make sense and is not supportive.

How do I know this? Because of similar programs in other countries." This depreciates what you are saying, because those other countries are actively engaging in something you already admit exists, but that the Thais have yet to do. Saying a structure is in place isn't the same as saying the structure is a successful, working example. That is what this OP is about; the things the Thais have yet to do. All talk and no show.

I do not know about Anuban, and yes, I am not well informed. Perhaps I should write a letter to your advertising department, and suggest they make a little activity.

Your idealism is something I get a bowl full on every one of these kinds of OPs; the good-heart teacher with pie in the sky dreams, and nothing but positive things to say about caring and wishful thinking parents, who do not raise a finger about their children's education.

The problem is not with the parents it is with the funding and administrations.

Let me ask you a question. How do you put a corrupt director and corrupt teachers out of business? Answer: you take away their form of income, and go on strike, and demand a change immediately. You demand the coffers get opened up, and teacher's wages be raised to attract quality teachers, and computers and books put in school, and any other items you need to see done before you allow their "reason for collecting their paycheck" (a.k.a. your child) back into the class room. You form a parent - teacher union, and do not allow your child to be subjected to something you despise.

What is it with people who complain like a bunch of adolescents, but never take action when the answer is so simple; no kids in school = wake up and smell the roses. "Hey, these parents must really be serious about education. Maybe we'd better do something about it before our next Landcruiser payment comes due!"

The eventual outcome of the status quo will be the same results that have been shown statistically over recent years. That means letting the kids go to school, and nothing will change, except the empty promises and misappropriation of educational funding. Who are the TRUE directors of these schools? Answer: the parents!

Marky45y, I teach my staff that every customer we have is our boss. They pay our salaries. If we do not make the boss happy, we lose a customer. With that in mind, it is the parents who are funding this crap that creates news about poor development of children's minds. It is the parents who are funding their employers (the directors and teachers) to perform at a sub par level. They have absolutely no right to complain.

Why keep sending your child back if nothing is getting done. Do you return to a restaurant that gives you poor service? Why are your children less important than your belly? Would a class action strike damage these kid's education outcome? Well, at the present course the educational systems are heading, I think a few months of striking and keeping kids home would certainly not hurt their education, and at the same time give the corrupt, lazy people, who take the parent's money, some time to re evaluate their future employment and income.

Why do parents keep their kids home over something as stupid as H1N1, and never think to keep their kids out of school, when in fact all these schools are doing is wasting valuable time and the parents money over nothing?

Why do Thai adults demand their money back about a bad product, or a poor service, but overlook the sub-par quality of their children's educational system? I get Thai parents coming to me all the time, who want me to teach their kids a foreign language, but when it comes to the price to get a quality teacher, they fade away. I am describing Thai men and women who drive Mercedes Benz, Landcruisers, Land Rovers, and Lexus cars. These selfish prigs expect the world, and spend lavishly on themselves, but are willing to skimp on their kid's futures. Are these the caring and wanting parents you describe?

How many Thai parents expect the world, but do not live by example? How difficult is it for a parent to take interest in learning the English language themselves and share that experience with their child? How vulnerable and abandoned a kid must feel to be pushed to achieve something their own father and mother have no time for! Do as I say and not as I do. I complain about things, but I do not become involved. Yeah, behavioral training at its best; a real role model for the kid to look up to and imitate.

This is stupid and ignorant, and supports what I submit; lack of parental involvement, and the cojones to put your money where your mouth is.Take 'em out of school if there is nothing to be gained. Grow up and take action, instead of whining about something that is not designed to change, and is instead designed to perpetuate your complaining as long as you condone it (and you are!) by funding it, or subjecting your child to it again and again.

God knows these kids have enough vacations already. You may as well give the schools a long vacation with some severe ramifications at the other end, with regards to the "worthwhileness" of why it is in the children's benefit to return at all.Even if they are government funded, it would be interesting how the government would deal with an issue of "No quality! No kids!"

(The link reflects parental attitudes & actions towards poor quality teachers, however it should not be limited to only teachers. The comments section reflects a healthy mindset towards our future generations and their mental development. This is only an example that contrasts what I do not see here, yet is prevalent in developed countries.)

Edited October 15, 2010 by cup-O-coffee

[SergeiY]

Facebook is blocked and you convienantly left out that I wrote it was a minor grievance

I keep seeing this but I've never had any problem accessing it?! Wish I did, would then stop erstwhile friends from aeons ago attempting to contact me with page upon page of mindless drivel.

haha.

I think that comment came from some english "teacher" who complained that at his school facebook is blocked so he cannot contact his friends (all mega qualified teacher) for advices on teaching.

that was one of his examples that came in a rant why Thai schools are so bad - facebook is blocked in the school computer network.

[chantorn]

Facebook is blocked and you convienantly left out that I wrote it was a minor grievance

I keep seeing this but I've never had any problem accessing it?! Wish I did, would then stop erstwhile friends from aeons ago attempting to contact me with page upon page of mindless drivel.

haha.

I think that comment came from some english "teacher" who complained that at his school facebook is blocked so he cannot contact his friends (all mega qualified teacher) for advices on teaching.

that was one of his examples that came in a rant why Thai schools are so bad - facebook is blocked in the school computer network.

Why block facebook? I don't get it.

[Bruce1]

Because some schools block social networking sites. Reasons could be sensible or silly. Actually, if they were using English on Facebook to connect with other English users, it could be a good fun way to practice their English.