Is Bangkok Bank Lying About Their Wire Transfer Fees?

[asdfrules]

I was sent 7800 Baht from Singapore, twice, and only received 7350 both times. According to Bangkok Bank, I should have received 7600.

Bangkok Bank says they charge 0.25% to receive an international wire transfer. Minimum 200 Baht, Maximum 500 Baht. Any hidden fees, I asked? No.

I was charged 450 Baht, but I should have been charged 200 Baht. BKK Bank now tells me they charged me only 100 Baht (below the minimum some how).

I went in to ask them, they showed me a computer screen displaying that they received only 7450, and they said they only charged me a 100 Baht fee. They said the other charges were from Singapore and I couldn't get more information from them.

I have 3 problems with this:

1) I saw the receipt from Singapore and it said 7800 THB

2) BKK Bank told me the minimum was 200, and now they say the fee was only 100. The fees are randomly changing? Or maybe I'm not getting the full story.

3) I was over charged a nice round number or 250 Baht. If the charge was coming from Singapore, it would be in SGD or a %, and not a nice round number in THB.

If anyone could help me figure this out, I would really appreciate it.

[Naam]

If anyone could help me figure this out, I would really appreciate it.

Deutsche Bank, Bangkok is the correspondence bank for most (if not all) Singapore banks when THB are transferred and DB takes a cut.

[jcbangkok]

Bottom line is you should have 2 statements. One from Singapore and one from BKK Bank. Once you have both of these, it should be easy to tell what has happened as well as allow you to make any needed dispute. These statements should allow you to see how much was given, sent and received in addition to any fees. You may need to ask but you have a right to this.

Your current receipt from Singapore may say 7800 baht but they may have additional fees too and that may not have been what was actually sent. If I send money from the US, I know I need to add money for the fee because they just deduct it from the amount you give them and want to send rather than collecting it as a separate fee.

Good Luck .. although possible, I doubt the Bank ripped you off beyond their normal practices of gouging customers.

Please keep us informed ... good education for all of us.

PS. 250 Baht comes out as $10.92 SIG right now .. maybe they did some rounding or it was right at $11 at the time you transfered .. although you are likely right that this is not a Singapore issue, don't rule it out until you have all the facts.

Edited October 12, 2010 by jcbangkok

[ianguygil]

Bottom line is you should have 2 statements. One from Singapore and one from BKK Bank. Once you have both of these, it should be easy to tell what has happened as well as allow you to make any needed dispute. These statements should allow you to see how much was given, sent and received in addition to any fees. You may need to ask but you have a right to this.

Your current receipt from Singapore may say 7800 baht but they may have additional fees too and that may not have been what was actually sent. If I send money from the US, I know I need to add money for the fee because they just deduct it from the amount you give them and want to send rather than collecting it as a separate fee.

Good Luck .. although possible, I doubt the Bank ripped you off beyond their normal practices of gouging customers.

Please keep us informed ... good education for all of us.

PS. 250 Baht comes out as $10.92 SIG right now .. maybe they did some rounding or it was right at $11 at the time you transfered .. although you are likely right that this is not a Singapore issue, don't rule it out until you have all the facts.

Please PM me and I will contact you from my Bank email. I will then get our Global Payments unit to explain to you the path of the payment message and the path of the funds, including any charges we are taking.

We are the major (largest) THB clearing bank. So many Singapore banks do use us directly, not through international intermediaries.

So please send me a PM. You will get an email from my Bank ID. THen we will deal with this offline and you can post what you want.

I am confident we are NOT lying. So it would be nice if you find that the charges were taken by another bank (intermediary) if you would at least publish that, as other posters have done in the past when I have worked to clarify these things.

I am out of the home office this week so there may be some delays in my responses. Thanks

[BkkSteff]

Usually you have to pay two fees.One for the bank who send the money and one for the bank who recieve the money.

If you send money from europe to thailand then choose to let the recieving bank to pay the fees.It is cheaper.

[opalhort]

Usually you have to pay two fees.One for the bank who send the money and one for the bank who recieve the money.

If you send money from europe to thailand then choose to let the recieving bank to pay the fees.It is cheaper.

Wrong! Always pay the charges of the sending bank at the source of payment and let the receiving bank deduct their own charges. If something appears to be missing then the transfer went through a third bank which deducted their own charges. Call the receiving bank and ask them from which bank they actually received the transfer. Then call this bank and tell them you need a receipt for the charges they levied. They will e-mail or fax you the receipt upon request. You'll need a transfer reference number which the receiving (your) bank will give you.

We do this very often because we need evidence of all deductions along the way for accounting purposes.

opalhort

Edited October 12, 2010 by opalhort

[ianguygil]

Usually you have to pay two fees.One for the bank who send the money and one for the bank who recieve the money.

If you send money from europe to thailand then choose to let the recieving bank to pay the fees.It is cheaper.

Wrong! Always pay the charges of the sending bank at the source of payment and let the receiving bank deduct their own charges. If something appears to be missing then the transfer went through a third bank which deducted their own charges. Call the receiving bank and ask them from which bank they actually received the transfer. Then call this bank and tell them you need a receipt for the charges they levied. They will e-mail or fax you the receipt upon request. You'll need a transfer reference number which the receiving (your) bank will give you.

We do this very often because we need evidence of all deductions along the way for accounting purposes.

opalhort

It also depends on the nature of the transaction the transfer is intended to settle.

If you owe somebody 500,000 THB, you owe the 500,000 THB. Not 500,000 THB less the fees from your bank and the fees for the intermediary banks, and the fees for the beneficiary bank. So "charges to sender" is the way to go. If you are sending funds of your own to yourself then "charges to beneficiary" is fine.

If you are making frequent payments you can talk to the bank to ensure that the payments are send using the "least cost routing".

[ianguygil]

asdfrules

Got your PM

Sent you and eMail from my Bangkok Bank email ID. Thanks

Ian

[asdfrules]

What a pain in the ass. I appreciate the responses.

It sounds like a third party bank. I shouldn't' have put such a sensational title concerning Bangkok Bank, as it looks like it wasn't them.

Although I really wish the people at the bank I talked with actually put a bit of effort into dealing with my concern. They should have mentioned the possibility of a third party bank. They didn't even bring it up. Typical. If you don't ask specifically, they won't volunteer any information.

I'll talk with Ian and see what he can tell me. I'll also get the person in Singapore to ask the bank there for more info.

Wrong! Always pay the charges of the sending bank at the source of payment and let the receiving bank deduct their own charges. If something appears to be missing then the transfer went through a third bank which deducted their own charges. Call the receiving bank and ask them from which bank they actually received the transfer. Then call this bank and tell them you need a receipt for the charges they levied. They will e-mail or fax you the receipt upon request. You'll need a transfer reference number which the receiving (your) bank will give you.

We do this very often because we need evidence of all deductions along the way for accounting purposes.

opalhort

Again, I wish BKK Bank volunteered this info (telling me they got the funds from another bank) when I was asking why the amount was wrong. I'll have to ask again. Thanks for the idea.

It also depends on the nature of the transaction the transfer is intended to settle.

If you owe somebody 500,000 THB, you owe the 500,000 THB. Not 500,000 THB less the fees from your bank and the fees for the intermediary banks, and the fees for the beneficiary bank. So "charges to sender" is the way to go. If you are sending funds of your own to yourself then "charges to beneficiary" is fine.

If you are making frequent payments you can talk to the bank to ensure that the payments are send using the "least cost routing".

This makes sense. Thanks Ian. I'll check for your email tomorrow.

[Naam]

Usually you have to pay two fees.One for the bank who send the money and one for the bank who recieve the money.

If you send money from europe to thailand then choose to let the recieving bank to pay the fees.It is cheaper.

when i transfer Baht from Singapore i pay three fees. swift that my SIN bank charges, fees that the intermediary Deutsche Bank, BKK charges and the 500 Baht that SCB charges. all three charges are either fixed or capped and negligible if it is not a peanut amount like the one the OP mentioned. when transferring forex i get charged twice.

[jcbangkok]

Usually you have to pay two fees.One for the bank who send the money and one for the bank who recieve the money.

If you send money from europe to thailand then choose to let the recieving bank to pay the fees.It is cheaper.

when i transfer Baht from Singapore i pay three fees. swift that my SIN bank charges, fees that the intermediary Deutsche Bank, BKK charges and the 500 Baht that SCB charges. all three charges are either fixed or capped and negligible if it is not a peanut amount like the one the OP mentioned. when transferring forex i get charged twice.

Would there still be an intermediary needed if you used the Bangkok Bank branch in Sinapore to transfer funds to Bangkok Bank in Thailand? And wouldn't you not even need to transfer if depositing in a Bangkok Bank account? I am not being sarcastic .. just curious because the OP sent the money to Bangkok Bank and there is a Bangkok Bank branch in Singapore on Raffles Place.

In fact, I decided to check and there is a BKK Bank branch in New York. I wonder if there is anyway to simply mail a check there (I'm in US but not NY) and have it deposited in a Thailand BKK Bank account???

I transfer money from the US occasionally and always looking for better ways to do it .. and I am not a big banking or international transfer type person to know all this stuff.

Edit: Read more and the NY branch says deposit "accounts" are restricted ... not sure if that applies to deposits.

The New York branch is a US federal chartered branch which functions as a wholesale bank.

There are many services available including:

• Trade Finance
• Corporate Lending
• Remittance/Funds Transfer
• Deposit Accounts (restricted)

Edited October 13, 2010 by jcbangkok

[newtronbom]

I get regular transfers from overseas. 99% charges occur there. Only complaint I have against Bangkok Bank, is the delay receiving the funds, which can be 3 or more days. That's why I changed to Kasikorn bank, as I receive the funds the same day they are sent. Eg. sent at 9.30 am NZ time, on my acct here around 10 or 11am the same day.

[Naam]

"Would there still be an intermediary needed if you used the Bangkok Bank branch in Sinapore to transfer funds to Bangkok Bank in Thailand? And wouldn't you not even need to transfer if depositing in a Bangkok Bank account? I am not being sarcastic .. just curious because the OP sent the money to Bangkok Bank and there is a Bangkok Bank branch in Singapore on Raffles Place."

i suppose the answer is no.

[ianguygil]

"Would there still be an intermediary needed if you used the Bangkok Bank branch in Sinapore to transfer funds to Bangkok Bank in Thailand? And wouldn't you not even need to transfer if depositing in a Bangkok Bank account? I am not being sarcastic .. just curious because the OP sent the money to Bangkok Bank and there is a Bangkok Bank branch in Singapore on Raffles Place."

i suppose the answer is no.

I am sorry Naam. I am traveling, letlaged and did not read this post properly.

No. No need for an intermediary if the payment is between our branches and Head Office.

And no need for us to even use SWIFT. Which is why we can offer a lower price and a shorter time for the kinds of transactions in the US between 3rd party banks and our local branch (ACH to BBL NY then our internal network from BBL NY to BBL in Bangkok), and the UK (BACS to BBL London then internal network from BBL London to BBL in Bangkok).

Apologies from me again. I was not ignoring. I was just reading in a fog...... in my mind:blink: ... it is 3 am here right now..........

I will ask our Global Payments people to try to provide some guidance on how to make the payment with the least hops and the least charges. There is a term you can use for those banks who do have a DT/DF (Correspondent) relationship with us to force them to go directly not via intermediaries (if there is no correspondent relationship they have no choice).......

[jcbangkok]

"Would there still be an intermediary needed if you used the Bangkok Bank branch in Sinapore to transfer funds to Bangkok Bank in Thailand? And wouldn't you not even need to transfer if depositing in a Bangkok Bank account? I am not being sarcastic .. just curious because the OP sent the money to Bangkok Bank and there is a Bangkok Bank branch in Singapore on Raffles Place."

i suppose the answer is no.

I am sorry Naam. I am traveling, letlaged and did not read this post properly.

No. No need for an intermediary if the payment is between our branches and Head Office.

And no need for us to even use SWIFT. Which is why we can offer a lower price and a shorter time for the kinds of transactions in the US between 3rd party banks and our local branch (ACH to BBL NY then our internal network from BBL NY to BBL in Bangkok), and the UK (BACS to BBL London then internal network from BBL London to BBL in Bangkok).

Apologies from me again. I was not ignoring. I was just reading in a fog...... in my mind:blink: ... it is 3 am here right now..........

I will ask our Global Payments people to try to provide some guidance on how to make the payment with the least hops and the least charges. There is a term you can use for those banks who do have a DT/DF (Correspondent) relationship with us to force them to go directly not via intermediaries (if there is no correspondent relationship they have no choice).......

Truly appreciate the reply --- get some rest and thanks again.

[JimGant]

And no need for us to even use SWIFT. Which is why we can offer a lower price and a shorter time for the kinds of transactions in the US between 3rd party banks and our local branch (ACH to BBL NY then our internal network from BBL NY to BBL in Bangkok),

Ian, correct me if I'm wrong.....

....but, even tho' the pipeline from NY to Bangkok contains no SWIFT network equipment, the transaction itself is SWIFT encoded, thus satisfying the security requirements in-place for international wires from the US. This too also allows ACH transfers to BB NY, for subsequent routing to Bangkok, to meet the new International ACH Transfer (IAT)requirements.

[ianguygil]

And no need for us to even use SWIFT. Which is why we can offer a lower price and a shorter time for the kinds of transactions in the US between 3rd party banks and our local branch (ACH to BBL NY then our internal network from BBL NY to BBL in Bangkok),

Ian, correct me if I'm wrong.....

....but, even tho' the pipeline from NY to Bangkok contains no SWIFT network equipment, the transaction itself is SWIFT encoded, thus satisfying the security requirements in-place for international wires from the US. This too also allows ACH transfers to BB NY, for subsequent routing to Bangkok, to meet the new International ACH Transfer (IAT)requirements.

Jim

I won't get too far into the details of what we do as it is an internal issue. But I can say that the security, and compliance issues, including all AML and central bank reporting, are fully satisfied.

Other banks have been doing this for a long time. When I was with Bank of America they used an internal formal called EXEC983 an put the BofA to BofA payments on their internal network. Very cost effective and provides the ability to provide funds immediately rather than the 2-3 day settlement which applied back then with SWIFT.

I hope this is enough to explain things.