Everything Over 400,000 Baht Is Suspicious

[george]

MONEY LAUNDERING: Onus to fall on traders

BANGKOK: -- Jewellers, gold shops and car dealers will have to report any suspicious transactions worth over Bt400,000 to the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) under a new regulation that is to take effect before the end of the year.

“This measure is necessary because drug traffickers, terrorists and swindlers have hidden their ill-gotten gains in the form of gold, jewels and cars,” Justice Minister Suwat Liptapanlop said yesterday at a meeting held by AMLO.

More than 400 businesspeople were present.

According to AMLO, jewels accounted for Bt1.5 billion of the Bt4 billion in assets seized so far this year. The assets included 350 vehicles.

AMLO secretary-general Peeraphan Prempooti said his office plans to issue the new regulation before yearend, but insisted it would not cause any trouble to the businesses involved.

“You have to report only suspicious transactions, such as those paid for in cash or by complete strangers,” he explained, adding that reports could be made by fax, mail or the Internet.

“You have to report these transactions within seven days of them taking place,” Peeraphan said.

He said failure to abide by the regulation would be punishable by both jail terms and fines. Those failing to report suspicious transactions worth over Bt2 million would face a Bt300,000 fine, he said.

However, Peeraphan said the new regulation would not punish businesses that unwittingly sold jewels, gold or cars to criminals in disguise without reporting it. “If an old customer of three or five years turns out to be a drug trafficker, you won’t be punished for failing to report,” he said.

Also, Suwat disclosed that AMLO was to extend the scope of anti-money-laundering laws so they covered eight more offences: encroachment on and destruction of natural resources, currency-exchange offences, stock manipulation, illegal trade in weapons of war, operating gambling dens, bid-collusion, labour fraud and excise fraud.

“The proposal to amend the laws will be tabled before the House of Representatives next month,” he said.

Peeraphan said the country needed to prepare itself for an assessment of its anti-money-laundering efforts by the World Bank next year. He said if Thailand failed in the assessment, the country might face sanctions.

The reaction of businesses to the upcoming regulations was mixed yesterday. While some were eager to play a role in preventing money laundering and upholding laws, others feared adverse impacts on their businesses.

“I agree with the new measure. We can help the authorities prevent illegal activities,” Supak Panyawuittikhom, the manager of SBD Gems Export, said.

Gold-shop owner Charn Nitassanajarukura, however, expressed opposition to the new measures, saying many customers would be scared away.

“Many will feel uncomfortable if they know they will be investigated for buying valuable ornaments,” he said. He also believed the Bt400,000 limit was too low.

A 72-year-old woman, who was shopping for an engagement ring for her son’s sweetheart, said she would hate it if the authorities investigated her just because she bought a diamond ring.

“I would feel bad. The authorities should find other means,” the grandmother said.

--The Nation 2005-07-28

[stumonster]

Banks in australia have to report any transaction exceeding 10k AUS dollars or 300k baht

[Firefan]

Difference here is that shops/banks Etc. will misunderstand and will make their own even stricter demands ; work permit, parents birth certificats(originals only of course), your unborn sons school papers and so forth.

Cheers!

[Heng]

Yeah right. You'd have to get people to stop using cash receipts for their own tax avoidance procedures first before you'll get anyone to report others.

[Thetyim]

“If an old customer of three or five years turns out to be a drug trafficker, you won’t be punished for failing to report,” he said.

So it's Ok to deal with a money launderer that you know.

But illegal to deal with a new one.

I feel someone is trying to protect their manor here.

[Darkling]

It`s not aimed at Thai`s

[Artisi]

Just think I'll spend my 400,000 Bht today in 4 diferent gold shops

[Orion76]

Think a jewelry shop owner would rat out a customer who spends 400,000+ on jewelry and risk having it confiscated?

Sure

[Greer]

“You have to report only suspicious transactions, such as those paid for in cash or by complete strangers,” he explained, adding that reports could be made by fax, mail or the Internet.

“You have to report these transactions within seven days of them taking place,” Peeraphan said.

Ummm... so who decides if the transaction is suspicious?

If I was running a shop and I thought to myself that a transaction was suspicious, but had forgotten to report it in the time limit, I could just get off by saying that I had not thought it was suspicious at the time... huh??

...and who would know except me that I had failed to report a transaction that I think is suspicious - but it might not seem suspicious to someone else - or worse - a transaction that I knew was not suspicious, but that someone else thought was, so they report me....

Pardon me for saying so but I feel that this does at first appear to have one or two small holes in it...I might be wrong....but....

Edited July 28, 2005 by Greer

[RamTodatry]

In the US every bank transaction over 10K USD is recorded.

Why 'suspicious" transactions only - who decides and how?

Why not report every transaction over 400,000 Baht. This would force everyone to rethink what they do with their ill gotten gains. Maybe stuff it under a mattress.

[Braccobaldo]

...I agree with this new law..every more strict control is ok for me.

[susah_sih]

They follow US government regulation

anything over US10,000 (i.e. Baht400,000) needs to

be reported to the government. The US is pressing

Thailand to implement this otherwise Thailand banks

lose the ability of making transactions in USD.

The US is also pushing this ruling to the Central

Bank of Indonesia. A friend of mine works for Bank Indonesia said

the US Federal Reserve is threatening to yank the

license of US dollar transfers through New York, if Bank Indonesia

fails to implement this regulation.

MONEY LAUNDERING: Onus to fall on traders

BANGKOK: -- Jewellers, gold shops and car dealers will have to report any suspicious transactions worth over Bt400,000 to the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) under a new regulation that is to take effect before the end of the year.

“This measure is necessary because drug traffickers, terrorists and swindlers have hidden their ill-gotten gains in the form of gold, jewels and cars,” Justice Minister Suwat Liptapanlop said yesterday at a meeting held by AMLO.

More than 400 businesspeople were present.

According to AMLO, jewels accounted for Bt1.5 billion of the Bt4 billion in assets seized so far this year. The assets included 350 vehicles.

AMLO secretary-general Peeraphan Prempooti said his office plans to issue the new regulation before yearend, but insisted it would not cause any trouble to the businesses involved.

“You have to report only suspicious transactions, such as those paid for in cash or by complete strangers,” he explained, adding that reports could be made by fax, mail or the Internet.

“You have to report these transactions within seven days of them taking place,” Peeraphan said.

He said failure to abide by the regulation would be punishable by both jail terms and fines. Those failing to report suspicious transactions worth over Bt2 million would face a Bt300,000 fine, he said.

However, Peeraphan said the new regulation would not punish businesses that unwittingly sold jewels, gold or cars to criminals in disguise without reporting it. “If an old customer of three or five years turns out to be a drug trafficker, you won’t be punished for failing to report,” he said.

Also, Suwat disclosed that AMLO was to extend the scope of anti-money-laundering laws so they covered eight more offences: encroachment on and destruction of natural resources, currency-exchange offences, stock manipulation, illegal trade in weapons of war, operating gambling dens, bid-collusion, labour fraud and excise fraud.

“The proposal to amend the laws will be tabled before the House of Representatives next month,” he said.

Peeraphan said the country needed to prepare itself for an assessment of its anti-money-laundering efforts by the World Bank next year. He said if Thailand failed in the assessment, the country might face sanctions.

The reaction of businesses to the upcoming regulations was mixed yesterday. While some were eager to play a role in preventing money laundering and upholding laws, others feared adverse impacts on their businesses.

“I agree with the new measure. We can help the authorities prevent illegal activities,” Supak Panyawuittikhom, the manager of SBD Gems Export, said.

Gold-shop owner Charn Nitassanajarukura, however, expressed opposition to the new measures, saying many customers would be scared away.

“Many will feel uncomfortable if they know they will be investigated for buying valuable ornaments,” he said. He also believed the Bt400,000 limit was too low.

A 72-year-old woman, who was shopping for an engagement ring for her son’s sweetheart, said she would hate it if the authorities investigated her just because she bought a diamond ring.

“I would feel bad. The authorities should find other means,” the grandmother said.

--The Nation 2005-07-28

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[ray23]

They follow US government regulation

anything over US10,000 (i.e. Baht400,000) needs to

be reported to the government. The US is pressing

Thailand to implement this otherwise Thailand banks

lose the ability of making transactions in USD.

The US is also pushing this ruling to the Central

Bank of Indonesia. A friend of mine works for Bank Indonesia said

the US Federal Reserve is threatening to yank the

license of US dollar transfers through New York, if Bank Indonesia

fails to implement this regulation.

MONEY LAUNDERING: Onus to fall on traders

BANGKOK: -- Jewellers, gold shops and car dealers will have to report any suspicious transactions worth over Bt400,000 to the Anti-Money Laundering Office (AMLO) under a new regulation that is to take effect before the end of the year.

“This measure is necessary because drug traffickers, terrorists and swindlers have hidden their ill-gotten gains in the form of gold, jewels and cars,” Justice Minister Suwat Liptapanlop said yesterday at a meeting held by AMLO.

More than 400 businesspeople were present.

According to AMLO, jewels accounted for Bt1.5 billion of the Bt4 billion in assets seized so far this year. The assets included 350 vehicles.

AMLO secretary-general Peeraphan Prempooti said his office plans to issue the new regulation before yearend, but insisted it would not cause any trouble to the businesses involved.

“You have to report only suspicious transactions, such as those paid for in cash or by complete strangers,” he explained, adding that reports could be made by fax, mail or the Internet.

“You have to report these transactions within seven days of them taking place,” Peeraphan said.

He said failure to abide by the regulation would be punishable by both jail terms and fines. Those failing to report suspicious transactions worth over Bt2 million would face a Bt300,000 fine, he said.

However, Peeraphan said the new regulation would not punish businesses that unwittingly sold jewels, gold or cars to criminals in disguise without reporting it. “If an old customer of three or five years turns out to be a drug trafficker, you won’t be punished for failing to report,” he said.

Also, Suwat disclosed that AMLO was to extend the scope of anti-money-laundering laws so they covered eight more offences: encroachment on and destruction of natural resources, currency-exchange offences, stock manipulation, illegal trade in weapons of war, operating gambling dens, bid-collusion, labour fraud and excise fraud.

“The proposal to amend the laws will be tabled before the House of Representatives next month,” he said.

Peeraphan said the country needed to prepare itself for an assessment of its anti-money-laundering efforts by the World Bank next year. He said if Thailand failed in the assessment, the country might face sanctions.

The reaction of businesses to the upcoming regulations was mixed yesterday. While some were eager to play a role in preventing money laundering and upholding laws, others feared adverse impacts on their businesses.

“I agree with the new measure. We can help the authorities prevent illegal activities,” Supak Panyawuittikhom, the manager of SBD Gems Export, said.

Gold-shop owner Charn Nitassanajarukura, however, expressed opposition to the new measures, saying many customers would be scared away.

“Many will feel uncomfortable if they know they will be investigated for buying valuable ornaments,” he said. He also believed the Bt400,000 limit was too low.

A 72-year-old woman, who was shopping for an engagement ring for her son’s sweetheart, said she would hate it if the authorities investigated her just because she bought a diamond ring.

“I would feel bad. The authorities should find other means,” the grandmother said.

--The Nation 2005-07-28

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep the same at the U.S. won't be effective here but it looks good, not really so sure that it is effective in the states either. But it really does look good on paper.

[dudley21]

Banks in australia have to report any transaction exceeding 10k AUS dollars or 300k baht

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Banks In Australia only have to report any cash transactions over $10,000.

[astral]

There is world of difference between asking banks to report transactions,

and asking shopkeepers or car dealers.

The car dealers will have a real headache.

Can you buy a new car for less than 400K?

I doubt it.

Even a good second hand car will fetch that much.

If I sell my car privately for more than 400K do I have to report the buyer to the AMLO??

Typical Thai muddled thinking.

PS That grandmother prepared to spend 400K cash on a diamond ring for her

grandson's fiancee sounds very suspicious!!

Edited July 28, 2005 by astral

[carlthailand]

Banks in australia have to report any transaction exceeding 10k AUS dollars or 300k baht

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Banks In Australia only have to report any cash transactions over $10,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm thats what he said.

Think he was being kind to add a rough calculation into this countries currency.

C

[hardy1943]

Banks in australia have to report any transaction exceeding 10k AUS dollars or 300k baht

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Banks In Australia only have to report any cash transactions over $10,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Banks in U.S. only have to report any CASH transaction $10,000 and over, not checks

[timpatco]

I noticed real estate missed out, is that because thats where money laundering from you know who goes?

Edited July 28, 2005 by timpatco

[yuyi]

“You have to report only suspicious transactions, such as those paid for in cash or by complete strangers,” he explained, ...

Ummm... so who decides if the transaction is suspicious?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's written very clearly: "such as those paid for in cash" and "or by complete strangers".

This means, if > 400,000 baht, every cash payment is suspicious.

And every payment, cash or not cash, by a complete stranger, is suspicious.

And it is also said who is not a complete stranger: "an old customer of three or five years".

So face it, big brother is watching you. Now also in Thailand. And who is this big bro? Yeah, the U.S. IRS, looking for all you U.S. guys hiding your money from them, trying to cheat some taxes.

Well, now you need to put it offshore. And buy your diamonds in Singapore, or HK.

What you say, this is about drug trafficker's money? Nonsense, that money is invested in politics, buying votes, MPs, PMs, etc. And may be some land titles.

[Mali_in_CM]

Orion76,

I like the way you think.

[booma]

Banks in australia have to report any transaction exceeding 10k AUS dollars or 300k baht

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Banks In Australia only have to report any cash transactions over $10,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is this figure in the UK? Anyone know.

B

[gerrryuk]

What is this figure in the UK? Anyone know.

B

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

£10,000 CASH. Cheques, credit cards and debit cards are all exempt as they will already have gone throught the "checking system" Although most big outlets will take a lot less than that to save themselves being investigated.

[BlackJack]

now this is particularly funny - in the land of tax avoidensia

millions of baht changing hands every day

no tax no middleman no skimming off the top

do these guys get out of bed one day and decide gee i havent opened my mouth to the media for a while and Taxsin hasnt noticed me for a while so I better get up and say something

then sit down and sleep for another year

good grief

wake me up if he speaks again

[Foggy Bottom]

I noticed real estate missed out, is that because thats where money laundering from you know who goes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah - the you know whos only launders money into real estate in other countries - normally western ones from what I've been told ....... Monaco and London are apparently popular with them.

[ilyushin]

Going after the small fish. Making it harder for legal business people and investors to do business. All you need do is make a mistake in bargaining and then you will be reported.

Pressure from the States and credibility is important, but we as legal consumers and investors need a get out of jail free card.

[Hendrikus]

I would be surprised if banks don't strive to register all tansactions already. The FED which is a private banking system, not a goverment system, as with the Euro, can of course set conditions, but no matter what they still need a multitude of people who are willing to go along with the act of 'value allocation' for them to have a business.

For those interested the following site contains the priciple.

http://robotics.caltech.edu/~mason/Delusions/epdatmoc.html

Regards

[Thetyim]

If 400K is the limit then any cash transaction of 399,999 baht would be highly suspicious but not need reporting.

[cutter007]

This law will be as effective as the phone registration law is with stopping bombers.

0% effective, this coincidencely this is the same benchmark that Thai politicians need to get on there performance reviews to maintain their status as qualified to govern.

How to circumvent this law:

Step 1, turn on your brain, now you have already a 95% chance of getting around this law, because you have done something that the person who suggested this law didn't do.

Step 2, If you are a jeweler, and someone wishes to purchase 1 million baht necklace, but doesn't want it reported

You sell them the necklace for 399,999, then 3 other 100 baht necklaces for 300K each.

You can apply similar tactics to other industries.

In a country where over 50% of the businesses cheat the VAT system, this law is nothing more than the next topic for the Bangkok post comic satire

Edited July 28, 2005 by cutter007

[expatinasia]

"If 400K is the limit then any cash transaction of 399,999 baht would be highly suspicious but not need reporting."

There's a difference between the spirit and the letter of the law. While you are correct, anyone not reporting a transaction of 399,999 baht would be suspicious. After the $10,000 limit became law in the US, several people tried to game the system, and the governemnt caught them quickly. Although the "official" threshold is $10K, the US feds won't disclose the level which arouses their suspicion.

[samuislander]

In the U.S. ANY transaction over 10,000 USD is reported to the Government. I transfered 12,000 USD between savings acounts both in my name in the same U.S. Bank, Yes it was reported, I was advised by my bank that it was the law and would be reported.