Getting British Nationality For Thai Child

[wailee]

Could anyone tell me please if it is possible to obtain British Nationality for a Thai child of Thai/British origin without the father's involvement. The British father's name is on the birth certificate. The couple were never married. The child's Thai passport was signed by mother and father. The child has never traveled to Britain. Thanks.

[VisasPlus]

I am nota nationality expert, but, in my view, the answer is yes, as long as the father did not get his own citizenship by descent. The following may help :

If you were born outside the United Kingdom on or after 1 January 1983

This section also applies to you if you were born outside a qualifying territory on or after 21 May 2002 and had a parent who was a British citizen.

Whether or not you are a British citizen depends on the type of citizenship your parents had. This may be British citizenship by descent or otherwise than by descent.

British citizenship may descend to one generation born abroad. So if you were born outside the United Kingdom or qualifying territory and one of your parents was a British citizen otherwise than by descent, you are a British citizen by descent. If you were born before 1 July 2006 you may not qualify if your parents were not married at the time of your birth.

However, you are a British citizen otherwise than by descent if at the time of your birth one of your parents was a British citizen in Crown service, designated service, or service of a European Community institution and he/she was recruited to that service:

• in the United Kingdom;
• in the United Kingdom or a qualifying territory (if you were born on or after 21 May 2002); or
• in the European Community (for service with a European Community institution).

If you were born outside the United Kingdom or qualifying territory and your parents were British citizens by descent, you are not a British citizen. However, you may be able to apply to register as a British citizen (see registration of a child).

See also

• 
  By descent
  If you gained British citizenship gained through your parents by descent. This type of citizenship cannot normally be passed on to your own children. (See also Otherwise than by descent.)
  
• 
  Otherwise than by descentBritish citizenship gained in your own right (not by descent through your parents or grandparents). This type of citizenship can be passed on to your own children. (See also Descent.)
  

[beano2274]

What is a qualifying territory? I do not think Thailand is one, I think this is aimed at Service personnel on overseas postings.

Was the birth registered at the Embassy? This would help the passport process.

The father is British therefore he must also sign the documentation, am sure it is one of the stipulations for a passport, but others will know better than me.

[DoubtingThomas]

This is an interesting question that someone might want to expand upon. The answer given by VisasPlus is, I believe fully accurate, but what establishes your citizenship? I suspect that if you are born of a (full) British parent overseas you are, by definition, British, regardless of whether you take the trouble to establish it as a child or even before the age of consent (18). I know of two ways you can establish it; one is to get a British birth certificate at the local embassy and the other is to get a British passport. Once you have done one, the other or indeed in many cases, both, that's it, done and dusted. How you do that is covered elsewhere on this forum and having been through it myself I can vouch that it is not at all difficult to do.

However, what if you don't do it? What if, at age 25, a person with a British parent gets an opportunity to say work in the EEC (or whatever they call it these days). Is the process the same as for a child or do the coach & horses turn into a pumpkin and mice at the stroke of midnight on your 18th birthday? I know you do not need a British birth certificate to get a British passport, so we can assume that Somchai Smith, aged 25, has just a Thai birth certificate, with his father's name on it. Assuming Somchai has his father's birth certificate etc. can he still establish (for residential and work purposes) his British nationality? I think yes, but I don't know for sure. Any experience/expert knowledge out there?

[Mario2008]

A birth certificate doesn't proof anything. It is only a claim that mr. X is the father. Only when the parents are married will the law asume the husband is the father of the child.

The father will have to cooperate for the child gaining British citizenship, as without the fahter the parenthood can not be established. If the father doesn't want to cooperate, a paternity suit can be filed in which the judge can rule that mr. X is indeed the father of the child. That would open British nationality.

[VisasPlus]

A birth certificate doesn't proof anything. It is only a claim that mr. X is the father. Only when the parents are married will the law asume the husband is the father of the child.

The father will have to cooperate for the child gaining British citizenship, as without the fahter the parenthood can not be established. If the father doesn't want to cooperate, a paternity suit can be filed in which the judge can rule that mr. X is indeed the father of the child. That would open British nationality.

Is legitimacy still a factor ? I thought it no longer mattered ?

[Mario2008]

A birth certificate doesn't proof anything. It is only a claim that mr. X is the father. Only when the parents are married will the law asume the husband is the father of the child.

The father will have to cooperate for the child gaining British citizenship, as without the fahter the parenthood can not be established. If the father doesn't want to cooperate, a paternity suit can be filed in which the judge can rule that mr. X is indeed the father of the child. That would open British nationality.

Is legitimacy still a factor ? I thought it no longer mattered ?

Not sure about that, but you have to proof that mr. X is indeed the father. A birth certificate doesn't proof that. The person registering the birth only makes a claim that mr. X is the father. If it is the father himself that registers the birth, that would be a strong indication that mr. X considers the child as his.

[DoubtingThomas]

A birth certificate doesn't proof anything. It is only a claim that mr. X is the father. Only when the parents are married will the law asume the husband is the father of the child.

The father will have to cooperate for the child gaining British citizenship, as without the fahter the parenthood can not be established. If the father doesn't want to cooperate, a paternity suit can be filed in which the judge can rule that mr. X is indeed the father of the child. That would open British nationality.

True and a good point. It seems that in British Law (at least, dunno about elsewhere) you are assumed to be the father if married (so just the mother can register the birth) and have to be present at the registration if not married. Neither of which establishes the real father, of course. Jews are smart in this respect in that your mother establishes you as a Jew, not your father.

Anyway, that does raise the question as to what establishes your citizenship. Since you don't need much more than questionable pieces of paper to get a British passport, if you fly to the UK on a Thai passport and then apply for a N.I. number etc. waving around your birth certificate, will you get it? Perhaps in my earlier post I used "establishes" misleadingly when I really meant "proves". What proves you are British?

If the birth certificate does not but the passport does, why? Surely the passport is just the fruit of a possibly poisonous seed?

Edited October 16, 2010 by DoubtingThomas

[wailee]

If you were born before 1 July 2006 you may not qualify if your parents were not married at the time of your birth.

Thanks very much. In this case, the birth was before July 2006 and the parents were not married. The birth was not registered at the Embassy by the father, unless the mother has done so without the father's presense. I'm not sure if that is possible. It would seem therefore that it is not possible for the child to obtain British Citizenship without the father's involvement.

Edited October 16, 2010 by wailee

[bangkockney]

The birth will need to have been registered at the Embassy, or the child's biological father will have to be involved in the process.

If the child was born outside the UK

IPS needs to see the child's full birth certificate or adoption certificate showing parents' details and one of the following:

• section 4 of the application form completed with the British passport details for either parent
• UK birth certificate for either parent
• Home Office certificate of registration or naturalisation for either parent
• the passport that was valid at the time of the child's birth for either parent

Note: if the child has a birth certificate issued by a British consulate or high commission, you do not need to send any other documents.

I forgot to ask: is the OP now involved with the woman who has the child? If UK nationality is a must, you could marry the woman and adopt the child.

Edited October 16, 2010 by bangkockney

[wailee]

The birth will need to have been registered at the Embassy, or the child's biological father will have to be involved in the process.

Thanks indeed for the information. The birth was not registered at the British Embassy. Is there a time limit for doing this? I mean the child was born a few years ago, so therefore could it be registered now and what would be needed in order to do that, given that the father is not involved? Thanks P.S. No, I do not wish to marry the woman.

[7by7]

From the embassy information

British Fathers, who are not married, can now apply to register children who are born abroad prior to 1 July 2006, with the Home Office. Please note this is discretionary. Those applying should expect to receive a decision in approximately 4 months. The fee for this will be £470 payable in local currency plus a Consular forwarding fee of Baht 3,370. Please ask for form MN1 or obtain it from the Home Office website. You will require an appointment.

I cannot see of anyway of registering the child as British without the father's involvement.

[bangkockney]

The birth will need to have been registered at the Embassy, or the child's biological father will have to be involved in the process.

Thanks indeed for the information. The birth was not registered at the British Embassy. Is there a time limit for doing this? I mean the child was born a few years ago, so therefore could it be registered now and what would be needed in order to do that, given that the father is not involved? Thanks P.S. No, I do not wish to marry the woman.

Unfortunately, as it is the father who is British it must be him that makes the claim of nationality for the child. As 7by7 confirms, it's just not possible.

I guess your only other option is to try and trace him and see if he wants to do right by his child - i.e. ensuring his own flesh and blood's rights are fully recognised. Some people, sadly, do not share this opinion.

Edited October 19, 2010 by bangkockney