Is 'Pak Talat'(Market Mouth) A Good Response To Being Called A Farang?

[bubba1]

Is 'Pak Talat'(market mouth) a good response to being called a farang?

[kriswillems]

No. "Farang" is not a word with a bad meaning so you don't need to respond like this. If it's a joke, I think people will not understand it.

Edited October 17, 2010 by kriswillems

[Tod Daniels]

As much as I dont care for being called what I fondly refer to as "the 'F' word" in thai ; I have resigned myself to it, and just let it slide like water off a duck's back. In fact, anymore, I don't even give it a second thought.

If I'm in an area with a heavy tourist concentration and hear it I will prick up my ears and listen quite carefully to what precedes or follows the word when I hear it, especially so if it's in reference to myself.

Now when I am up-country where foreigners are fine as frog hair, or thin as hens teeth, it becomes a non-issue and is used more like a 'category' to 'file' the various and sundry colored human beans <sic> in.

Most times, it's certainly not a meant in a denigrating tone by any wild stretch of your imagination (no matter how paranoid you might be about it!). I honestly believe the word itself is ambiguous and carries no implied meaning either pro or anti foreigner. Like I said, its just a way the thais can shoe horn similar looking foreigners into neat cubby holes based solely on appearance without spending undue time parsing out what country you happen to come from.

It's the context it's used in as well as what modifying words are used in conjunction with it that can morph the meaning into something less than a glowing reference.

I also wouldn't use a flippant answer like you suggested or any other catchy yet equally sarcastic 'put down' you may think up for that matter. It is my experience, unless you can carry on at least a semi-coherent conversation in thai; engaging the thais in any discourse about the political correctness of the word will leave you holding the short end of the stick.

You're unlikely to change the average run of the mill thai mentality when referencing white skinned foreigners here seeing as last time I checked, (which I do periodically) the odds are stacked against you about 64+ MILLION to 1.

Dont sweat the small stuff. My personal advice is; deal with it or carry it to your grave.

Edited October 17, 2010 by tod-daniels

[aircut]

Its a very rude response

being polite is far better choice for a foreigner who is less than fluent with the Thai language.

I wonder how do you perceive the meaning of the word farang to choose such a rude response

[kikenyoy]

I've never heard 'Pak Talat' before. What does it mean?

[ngieen]

very impolite

Edited October 18, 2010 by ngieen

[aircut]

I've never heard 'Pak Talat' before. What does it mean?

It means that ones speaks as a market vendor thus suggesting they are from a lower socioeconomic status and/or a lack of formal education.

[tgeezer]

I've never heard 'Pak Talat' before. What does it mean?

It means that ones speaks as a market vendor thus suggesting they are from a lower socioeconomic status and/or a lack of formal education.

Surely it means what the speaker thinks it means, 'market mouth', if it means anything to a Thai unexposed to English, belongs in a group like 'motor mouth', and unlike 'bigmouth' can only be guessed at. ภาษาตลาด exists doesn't it?

If it is insulting, what does anyone gain from being offensive? If you aim to expunge the word 'Farang' from the Thai language, you're wasting your time.

[NancyL]

I think this is a very valid question -- how to respond when called a "Farang". When I first came to Thailand over 30 years ago, I was told the term was very impolite and not used in polite company, kind of like the American "N-word" for black people. Now, with the general "coarse-ification" of society it's become common as has the "N-word", at least within the black community within the U.S. As a woman of a certain age who always dresses and behaves appropriately I find the term offensive.

For example, I like to use a certain hairdresser at a shop here in Chiang Mai. Recently, I visited and asked if he was available. The staffer on-duty called him on his mobile and said he had a farang regular customer who wanted a haircut, how long before he would return to the shop? They were 5 or 6 sentences into the conversation before it was apparent that the hairdresser on the other end of the conversation asked if this customer waiting was a woman or man. A few months ago I was staying at a hotel in BKK and left the room late in the morning for an appointment. The maid in the hallway used her little handheld radio to tell another staffer that the farang in room 611 was leaving for the day.

What's the problem in referring to me as "a lady who would like a haircut" or "the guest in room 611"?

Sometimes I wish I didn't understand the Thai language!

[ngieen]

common Nancy. Don't project please your western morals to the Thai language. Calling someone a FARANG is by far different than using the "N-word", I hope you learned that after 30years of stay. and if not...well its time.... using the word falang is far from being raciest, mean or cruel, it does not carry any bad meaning except those the heads of few of us (farangs)

when someone calls me a farang i usually smile and say, no i am a mango or a papaya. they always laugh and we all go back to business.

gosh

relax

Edited October 18, 2010 by ngieen

[bubba1]

common Nancy. Don't project please your western morals to the Thai language. Calling someone a FARANG is by far different than using the "N-word", I hope you learned that after 30years of stay. and if not...well its time.... using the word falang is far from being raciest, mean or cruel, it does not carry any bad meaning except those the heads of few of us (farangs)

when someone calls me a farang i usually smile and say, no i am a mango or a papaya. they always laugh and we all go back to business.

gosh

relax

same as the 'N' word imo and i am not going to take it anymore especially from some uneducated punk.

[ngieen]

same as the 'N' word imo and i am not going to take it anymore especially from some uneducated punk.

hilarious especially when coming from someone nick himeself bubba

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubba

Edited October 18, 2010 by ngieen

[Xangsamhua]

If you're very sensitive about how people perceive you I think Thailand is not the best place to be.

Need to chill out. After all, why should people perceive you the way you perceive yourself?

[SamboVilla]

common Nancy. Don't project please your western morals to the Thai language. Calling someone a FARANG is by far different than using the "N-word", I hope you learned that after 30years of stay. and if not...well its time.... using the word falang is far from being raciest, mean or cruel, it does not carry any bad meaning except those the heads of few of us (farangs)

when someone calls me a farang i usually smile and say, no i am a mango or a papaya. they always laugh and we all go back to business.

gosh

relax

same as the 'N' word imo and i am not going to take it anymore especially from some uneducated punk.

It's really not the same, there are no other meanings attached apart from that you are western.

Yea if I ever feel like responding I say, "mai shai farang, dtaeng moo" to wich they laugh. If you've been traveling to Thailand 30 years you should know not to be so sensitive, it's just how Thais talk.

[bubba1]

If you're very sensitive about how people perceive you I think Thailand is not the best place to be.

Need to chill out. After all, why should people perceive you the way you perceive yourself?

to go home is not an acceptable response.

[aircut]

farang is a single meaning word mean Caucasian without and bad meanings attached.

[bubba1]

farang is a single meaning word mean Caucasian without and bad meanings attached.

do you ever see them use Farang on the Thai news? How about at the office, has anyone called you a farang? I don't think so because it is rude

[ngieen]

of course I have being called farang, and yes, even on the television

[Xangsamhua]

Time was that Thai people would apologize if they used the term "farang" in my presence, though it had caused me no offence whatsoever, as I could see it was not meant derogatively. As others have said, the word is now so stripped of value that it has no emotive force, and the polite form "chao tarng chart" is a bit formal.

I suppose it rankles a bit sometimes if it is used when another term would be more appropriate (and therefore more polite), such as the terms "guest" or "lady" in the examples from an earlier posting. In the same way, I would feel a bit undervalued if someone in my own country referred to me as "this guy" or "some bloke". However, many Thai people have had little opportunity or training to make them aware of what is appropriate language or behaviour in reference to foreigners.

At least there's usually some residual respect for Westerners and citizens of developed societies (Japan, Korea, etc.). Foreigners from Laos, Burma and Cambodia are treated with scant respect even by Thais whose own ethnic background may not be purely Siamese.

[NancyL]

Thank you, I like the suggestion to point out that I'm not a farang, nor any other type of fruit. I'm a woman. It's probably more polite than accusing the speaker of having market mouth.

I've been in and out of the country for nearly 30 years and we finally retired here a couple years ago. Yes, definitely I still don't hear the term used in polite company.

Edited October 19, 2010 by NancyL

[sarahsbloke]

Hi Nancy

I'm totally with you on the 'farang' insult ............

But back on to the original question ....

Bpaak Talat (market mouth) is more often used in place of the western term 'fishwife'

Only really suitable as an insult towards a woman with an unpleasant way of speaking.

You might want to try 'slope' or 'zipperhead' as a more appropriate returning racial insult

[ngieen]

I am very curious to know where those who think farang is a dirty word picked the meaning of it, and under which circumstances? did someone actually told you that it means bloody western or did you figure it yourself? did your western tuned mind added flavors of build-in memories of the KKK and N-words to your personal interpretation?

thai2english.com: ฝรั่ง = fà-ràng = Westerner ; Caucasian ; "farang"

thai-language.com: ฝรั่ง = fà-ràng = a white man, a European, a Westerner

ฝรั่งขี้นก (farang khee nohk) and ฝรั่งขี้เหนียว (farang khee niaao) are both sarcastic and impolite though not as serious as the dreadful English n-word, but FARANG per-se has no bad implications.

Edited October 19, 2010 by ngieen

[SoftWater]

farang is a single meaning word mean Caucasian without and bad meanings attached.

do you ever see them use Farang on the Thai news? How about at the office, has anyone called you a farang? I don't think so because it is rude

No, I'd dispute that. I'd agree it's 'not formal', but a lot of hi-so Thais where I work use it in conversation (both to me and to each other), though generally it is eschewed in meetings in favour of 'international staff'. I don't detect any insult intended or not, but I know this debate has been had before and will undoubtedly be had again.

At the end of the day, no one really cares if you are insulted by something that isn't generally meant to be insulting, and if you decide to make an issue out of it and insult someone because of your (over-)sensitivity to this term, you're only going to leave someone who hadn't insulted you wishing they had (and probably now saying what a bad-mannered, 'market mouth' farang you turned out to be... ).

Wise up and let it ride.

[aircut]

I am very curious to know where those who think farang is a dirty word picked the meaning of it, and under which circumstances? did someone actually told you that it means bloody western or did you figure it yourself? did your western tuned mind added flavors of build-in memories of the KKK and N-words to your personal interpretation?

I agree that the word farang alone has no bad vibs.

i guess that most Farangs can not understand Thai, therefore they only pick the one word they DO understand realizing the Thais are talking about them, which immediately they tag out as impolite.

culture shock

[Rikker]

To compare 'farang' to the n-word is ridiculous. In fact, I find it an affront to black people to do so. Talk about white person arrogance.

I think while the "coarsification" of society referred to is a real phenomenon, the increased use of the word 'farang' is something different. I think that's attributable to the fact that the word is now widely known and accepted among foreigners. Even tourists spending a few days or weeks in country learn the word. As such, farangs for the most part accept the term how it is most commonly intended by Thais -- as a harmless descriptor. Further, I think it's western racial squeamishness that leads sensitive white people to take offense where none is intended. They're so used to taking offense on behalf of the down-trodden of the world, they leap at the chance to be offended on their own merits.

We farangs, by and large, have given Thais the impression that we are not offended by the term. And most of us are not. And so its use has become widespread. Is it appropriate for formal situations? No, so you don't hear it on the news. But that's because the news uses formal language as a rule. They use the formal equivalents of a whole litany of common words. Just more white man exceptionalism to think 'farang' is some special case.

As a farang I find I'm more often treated with extra (undeserved, even) deference. In the salon scenario, to say to the hairdresser on the phone 'there is a farang waiting here' instead of 'there is a person waiting here' can only cause one of two scenarios: the hairdresser goes out of his way to rush back to help you, or the hairdresser doesn't do that. It stretches the imagine to believe the hairdresser would ever go out of his way *not* to come back because you are farang. So you will either receive special treatment or normal treatment. But incidents of a farang being given sub-standard treatment are extremely rare in my experience. The tendency to give farangs special deference is no doubt conditioned in part by the tendency for Thais to see farangs as walking ATMs, but if it makes a shopkeeper or a waiter more willing to accommodate me, or give me better service, what on earth is there to complain about?

It's amusing how this topic comes up every now and again, when emotionally sunburned farangs yelp and squeal at the slightest touch. We hash out the same tired arguments and beat the same dead horses. Yet in the end those who are determined to take offense will continue to do so.

[bubba1]

farang is a single meaning word mean Caucasian without and bad meanings attached.

do you ever see them use Farang on the Thai news? How about at the office, has anyone called you a farang? I don't think so because it is rude

No, I'd dispute that. I'd agree it's 'not formal', but a lot of hi-so Thais where I work use it in conversation (both to me and to each other), though generally it is eschewed in meetings in favour of 'international staff'. I don't detect any insult intended or not, but I know this debate has been had before and will undoubtedly be had again.

At the end of the day, no one really cares if you are insulted by something that isn't generally meant to be insulting, and if you decide to make an issue out of it and insult someone because of your (over-)sensitivity to this term, you're only going to leave someone who hadn't insulted you wishing they had (and probably now saying what a bad-mannered, 'market mouth' farang you turned out to be... ).

Wise up and let it ride.

Are the Hi So thais colleagues or customers ? Hi-so's dont usually work in middle class jobs.

sounds like many of you don't mind being a second class resident. Not acceptable to me.

It is an insult and times need to change in Thailand and the use of the word must be stopped.

Personally i would like the government to start a TV campaign to explain to the market mouths to stop insulting the tourists and foreigners building factories and giving jobs to Thai's.

Don't even get me started on dual pricing.

[Daewoo]

Does anyone really think that the Thai's are taking the p!ss when they slap an "I heart farang" sticker on their car or Tuk Tuk??? They are trying to make you feel comfortable...

I hardly think there would be a run on "I heart ni@@ers" stickers trying to attract tourists in the US...

I am pretty sure that none of the friends I have in Thailand refer to me as 'farang' to secretly insult me... Khii Mao yes, farang no...

[ngieen]

Are the Hi So thais colleagues or customers ? Hi-so's dont usually work in middle class jobs.

They work in any job imaginable.

It is an insult and times need to change in Thailand and the use of the word must be stopped.

You are per definition unless you become a citizen of this county. as long as you need a visa you are unequal to Thai citizens. This is not bad or good. it just is.

It is an insult and times need to change in Thailand and the use of the word must be stopped.

Yo Bubba - You are surely fully charged with the wrong emotions, which makes me feel sad for you. I start to believe that the Thailand you live in is not the Thailand the rest of us found, or was it something happened to you before you arrived. Did you find a lot of discrimination, hatery and racism in your home country? i wish you well in your anti farang calling in thailand. don kichotas

Personally i would like the government to start a TV campaign to explain to the market mouths to stop insulting the tourists and foreigners building factories and giving jobs to Thai's.

Oh common. this is a white supremacy bull**

Edited October 19, 2010 by ngieen

[Thaddeus]

The OP should do what I do if a local says farang in my direction, look over you shoulder as if checking behind you, look back at them and say "Farang, farang tee nai khrap"

Usually gets a laugh and no one insulted.

[bubba1]

Think if Martin Luther King had the same attitude as some of you.

We must press for change in Thailand and stamp out racism against Thai-Indians, Dark skinned Issan people and foreigners. Education of the masses is the only way forward.

If anyone thinks that Thai's can't change then that is a huge insult to Thai people.