PM Abhisit Rules Out Approving Thai Online Lottery Project

[webfact]

Abhisit rules out approving online lottery project

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Sunday that his administration will not approve the online lottery project.

Speaking during his weekly TV program, Abhisit said his government does not want to encourage the people to gamble much more.

"So the two- and three-lottery project is not [solution to the overpriced lottery]. And we will use the online lottery vending machines for other purpose," Abhisit said.

He said his government has been trying to tackle the problem of overpriced lottery and will allocate more quotas of lottery to the disabled people.

-- The Nation 2010-10-18

[apetley]

There are already hoards of lottery sellers everywhere offering to sell you tickets so the temptation is always there.

I would have thought it would actually reduce gambling if the number of outlets was reduced to online retailers.

How about actually going after the illegal underground lottos? That is where the real problem of gambling addiction lies. In our locality there is a 'mafia lotto' everyday and people actually borrow money to play, insane!

One has to wonder who is actually benefiting from the cancelling on the online project?

[marquess]

There are already hoards of lottery sellers everywhere offering to sell you tickets so the temptation is always there.

I would have thought it would actually reduce gambling if the number of outlets was reduced to online retailers.

How about actually going after the illegal underground lottos? That is where the real problem of gambling addiction lies. In our locality there is a 'mafia lotto' everyday and people actually borrow money to play, insane!

One has to wonder who is actually benefiting from the cancelling on the online project?

The lotto here is a bigger con than in the UK or the States, as the percentage of the money collected that goes of prizes is perhaps around 3-5% compared to at least 50% for the National Lottery in the UK. The only people I feel for in all of this are those disabled individuals for whom Thai society offers no other means of making a living.

[Thai at Heart]

Indeed, the structure of the lottery here in Thailand is a massive money maker.

Of course we won't ask where all the money goes. And as for the contradiction of a Buddhist society using disabled people to sell lottery tickets, we won't ask either.

[Khun Jean]

The lottery is just a replacement for personal income tax, which most Thais don't pay. And you get a change to win something too.

[whybother]

<snip>

One has to wonder who is actually benefiting from the cancelling on the online project?

If a project is cancelled, the question is "who benefits?"

If a project goes ahead, the question is "who benefits?"

So the question that should be asked is "is this the right decision?"

[way2muchcoffee]

The lottery is just a replacement for personal income tax, which most Thais don't pay. And you get a change to win something too.

Cynical, but partially true. Most people I know who buy lottery tickets buy the underground tickets where the chances of winning are higher. The payouts are smaller of course. No revenues go to the government coffers unfortunately.

Edited October 18, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Thai at Heart]

The lottery is just a replacement for personal income tax, which most Thais don't pay. And you get a change to win something too.

Cynical, but partially true. Most people I know who buy lottery tickets, however, buy the underground tickets where the chances of winning are higher. The payouts are smaller of course. No revenues go to the government coffers unfortunately.

I have never quite understood the difference between the two.

But is Thailand the only country to have a nationwide, publicly distributed and marketed illegal lottery?

[way2muchcoffee]

deleted

Edited October 18, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Buchholz]

The lotto here is a bigger con than in the UK or the States, as the percentage of the money collected that goes of prizes is perhaps around 3-5% compared to at least 50% for the National Lottery in the UK. The only people I feel for in all of this are those disabled individuals for whom Thai society offers no other means of making a living.

So, actually, it's less of a con than in the UK or the States:

Section 22. The proceeds received by the Government Lottery Office from the sale of government lottery tickets shall be allocated as follows:

(1) sixty per cent as prizes;

(2) not less than twenty-eight per cent as State revenue;

(3) not exceeding twelve per cent as expenditure on administration inclusive of the expenses in respect of the sale of government lottery tickets.

GOVERNMENT LOTTERY OFFICE ACT, B.E. 2517*

_________

BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX

Given on 11th September B.E. 2517;

Being the 29th Year of the Present Reign.

[Cnxforever]

There are already hoards of lottery sellers everywhere offering to sell you tickets so the temptation is always there.

I would have thought it would actually reduce gambling if the number of outlets was reduced to online retailers.

How about actually going after the illegal underground lottos? That is where the real problem of gambling addiction lies. In our locality there is a 'mafia lotto' everyday and people actually borrow money to play, insane!

One has to wonder who is actually benefiting from the cancelling on the online project?

The lotto here is a bigger con than in the UK or the States, as the percentage of the money collected that goes of prizes is perhaps around 3-5% compared to at least 50% for the National Lottery in the UK. The only people I feel for in all of this are those disabled individuals for whom Thai society offers no other means of making a living.

you are exactly right - that's why they call it a "tax for the poor". Abhisit can not allow the online lottery to start because the current lottery is run by "influential people" and - surprise - riddled with corruption. It was explained to me by a Thai how it works - the quotas allocated supposed to be for low income earners and the disabled have been hijacked decades ago by influential government employees and police e.g. - they and their families sell them on to the vendors already overpriced and are assured of the profits twice a month. They in turn have to pay or give "favors" for the quotas they have been allocated.

So if the vendors have to purchase the tickets which are supposed to be sold for 80 Baht each for 90 or even 95 Baht - one must not wonder that the tickets are sold at a 100 Baht or more. While the vendors do the work and face the dilemma of how many tickets to purchase - as they can not return the unsold tickets - the "influential people" who make a nice profit twice a month are of course up in arms against the online lottery as it would deprive them of a good chunk of income they do not deserve in the first place.

The underground lotteries can never be stopped - again it is a source of income for certain people - who in turn have to pay off the authorities to look the other way (many are run by family members of the very authorities who are supposed to stop them, TIT) and I do understand a poor worker who would not be able to spend a 100 Baht for a "real" lottery ticket using these illegal lotteries paying 5, 10 or 20 Baht for a number.

I watch people every 1st and 16th of the month stopping work and going quite to listen to the lottery results - for many it is the only hope of getting there hands on a larger sum they could never put aside from their minimum wages agreed on by the generous politicians in Bangkok who spent more on a dinner than many people here earn in a month.

[marquess]

The lotto here is a bigger con than in the UK or the States, as the percentage of the money collected that goes of prizes is perhaps around 3-5% compared to at least 50% for the National Lottery in the UK. The only people I feel for in all of this are those disabled individuals for whom Thai society offers no other means of making a living.

So, actually, it's less of a con than in the UK or the States:

Section 22. The proceeds received by the Government Lottery Office from the sale of government lottery tickets shall be allocated as follows:

(1) sixty per cent as prizes;

(2) not less than twenty-eight per cent as State revenue;

(3) not exceeding twelve per cent as expenditure on administration inclusive of the expenses in respect of the sale of government lottery tickets.

GOVERNMENT LOTTERY OFFICE ACT, B.E. 2517*

_________

BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX

Given on 11th September B.E. 2517;

Being the 29th Year of the Present Reign.

,

That is what it might say, but if you look at the revenue collected every year and the amount of prize money handed out it doesn't seem to add up. Seeing that the lotto in the UK costs less but seems to pay out substantially more, off the top of my head the biggest UK prize might be around a billion Baht or more; and the average prize of £2,000,0000 (http://plus.maths.org/issue29/features/haigh/index.html) is much higher than I have ever heard anyone receiving here. So empirical facts seem to bely what has been written on paper. Finally what will six million Baht get you compared to the average UK winnings?

[Buchholz]

The lotto here is a bigger con than in the UK or the States, as the percentage of the money collected that goes of prizes is perhaps around 3-5% compared to at least 50% for the National Lottery in the UK.

So, actually, it's less of a con than in the UK or the States:

Section 22. The proceeds received by the Government Lottery Office from the sale of government lottery tickets shall be allocated as follows:

(1) sixty per cent as prizes;

(2) not less than twenty-eight per cent as State revenue;

(3) not exceeding twelve per cent as expenditure on administration inclusive of the expenses in respect of the sale of government lottery tickets.

GOVERNMENT LOTTERY OFFICE ACT, B.E. 2517*

_________

BHUMIBOL ADULYADEJ, REX

Given on 11th September B.E. 2517;

Being the 29th Year of the Present Reign.

That is what it might say, but if you look at the revenue collected every year and the amount of prize money handed out it doesn't seem to add up.

I'd be interested in reading your sources that Section 22 of the Act isn't being adhered to.

[slapout]

The original edit with the % payout was based on a lottery ticket price of what? With the Thai perchance for translation for a potential personal benefit, I can see several avenues for pocket lining via the present system. Today's printed/advertised price for a lottery ticket is 40 baht each, now they are being sold to the punters for 50 to 100 baht each, depending on how close it is to draw time. As far as the 12% to administration figure, look at the gross when the edit was put out vs today's gross income.

The disabled receiving benefit from the lottery?????, the vast majority of ticket sales are not thru persons with a physical disability and even the increase in people selling (near the draw date) tickets are riding bicycle or setting up stands on the main highways.

Online lottery would not give such a leeway on pricing nor would it favor the distribution system as is present at this time. Pork barrel, favoritism,etc are the most kind thoughts I have on this subject

[toddkritti]

The blue sky scenario was created for his stakeholders, why would he approve it? Now people can get into debt underground and borrow money through government's program to feed the cycle. If online lottery becomes legit then it splits the income of the underground lottery. Think one-way capital flow from legit inlet to underground outlet, that's how it works right now. The goal of online lottery was never about giving people more ways to gamble but to pull illegal money back into the system but, no, Abhisit's moral standard is too high to allow that to happen or maybe it's something else...

[chantorn]

Speaking during his weekly TV program, Abhisit said his government does not want to encourage the people to gamble much more. The Nation

Does he mean we can continue gambling the way we do right now - underground?

Don't forget that this is a Buddhist country.

Any gambling, big or small should never be allowed.

[jcbangkok]

And we will use the online lottery vending machines for other purpose," Abhisit said.

Is there some plan, actually in the works, to sell the tickets differently or are these folks currently selling tickets considered "machines"?

[hoaker]

The lottery is just a replacement for personal income tax, which most Thais don't pay. And you get a change to win something too.

Cynical, but partially true. Most people I know who buy lottery tickets, however, buy the underground tickets where the chances of winning are higher. The payouts are smaller of course. No revenues go to the government coffers unfortunately.

I have never quite understood the difference between the two.

But is Thailand the only country to have a nationwide, publicly distributed and marketed illegal lottery?

Thailand is not the only country. I know of some thai's in the United States who play these underground lotteries, where they check Thai newspaper from abroad on every 1st and 16th of the month. The payout there is huge sometimes in the 6 figures.

[hoaker]

Our thai PM contests to lottery buying online and yet he keeps the current lottery drawing a secret, never publicizes the winners names and never talk about the earnings that came from the selling of the tickets in which has gone up. Atleast Thaksin is attemtping to control the addiction of gamblers. Even without online lottery, what about underground football gambling?? Taking away the right to gamble is not gonna stop gamblers...

[chantorn]

The lottery is just a replacement for personal income tax, which most Thais don't pay. And you get a change to win something too.

Cynical, but partially true. Most people I know who buy lottery tickets, however, buy the underground tickets where the chances of winning are higher. The payouts are smaller of course. No revenues go to the government coffers unfortunately.

I have never quite understood the difference between the two.

But is Thailand the only country to have a nationwide, publicly distributed and marketed illegal lottery?

Thailand is not the only country. I know of some thai's in the United States who play these underground lotteries, where they check Thai newspaper from abroad on every 1st and 16th of the month. The payout there is huge sometimes in the 6 figures.

And the American law enforcer allows this to happen?

[Buchholz]

Our thai PM contests to lottery buying online and yet he keeps the current lottery drawing a secret, never publicizes the winners names and never talk about the earnings that came from the selling of the tickets in which has gone up. Atleast Thaksin is attemtping to control the addiction of gamblers. Even without online lottery, what about underground football gambling?? Taking away the right to gamble is not gonna stop gamblers...

"the right to gamble"

say wha'?? Does that mean this is this something the Human Rights Watch should get involved in?

"Atleast Thaksin is attemtping to control the addiction of gamblers"

Really? How?

Edited October 19, 2010 by Buchholz

[SergeiY]

And we will use the online lottery vending machines for other purpose," Abhisit said.

Is there some plan, actually in the works, to sell the tickets differently or are these folks currently selling tickets considered "machines"?

No, 'online lottery' was a future project, different from the current official system and more like an addition to it not a replacement.

But that 'online lottery' idea was not free of criticism. points were like gambling is a social vice or the poor disabled people will lose their income.

Anyway, important point is that someone could sell those 'online lottery vending machines' to the state and make some good profit out of it. That part of the deal is done. Now the state/governments owns all these 'online lottery vending machines' but it would be look much better if the government returns to their high moral values and opinions about 'gambling'.

Now everyone is happy.

1. the moralist who see gambling as a sin

2. the disabled people who don't face online lottery as competition in their ticket sale business.

3. the dude who made and sold the vending machines to the state

4. the dude who made the contract with the vending machine producer

5. the dude who will get a contract to do something else with the machines.

6. The PM who brought all the good news to the people.