Is 12Mbps Achievable On Standard Telephone Line?

[HardenedSoul]

Can anyone confirm whether or not a standard telephone line should be able to handle an ADSL speed of 12Mbps ?

I ask because I'm currently paying True for a 12Mbps Premium service which I have never been able to receive. True customer service suggest that the problem lies in the quality of the internal line into my apartment and, whilst both I and my landlord agree with that assessment, I am being asked to pay for an upgraded telephone line if I want to achieve the maximum speed that I'm paying for.

Needless to say, I'm reluctant to do so because, before signing up for the 12Mbps package, I was informed, by True, that the telephone line could accommodate the speed I wanted. They made no suggestion that the line would need to be anything other than standard.

Indeed, after conducting a number of speed tests and only getting 8Mbps (albeit consistently), I asked the landlord to check the line infrastructure into my apartment. The "technician" turned up and virtually spliced the router onto an alternative standard line in a cupboard inside the apartment with black tape. I tested the speed again and this time got 10Mbps. A significant improvement for sure but I would have had to have the router hanging out of the cupboard 6 feet up in the air; hardly aesthetically pleasing or acceptable given what I'm paying to live here; a point lost on the landlord.

I live close to Asoke on Sukhumvit soi 23 so I know that I'm not too far away from the exchange to get the speed I want so if someone could let me know for sure, then I could present the evidence to the landlord and insist he accept responsibility for repairing the line.

Any help appreciated.

[lomatopo]

Standard phone lines can support up to 24 Mbps using ADSL 2+ (12 Mbps using ADSL 2). TRUE markets standard ADSL services in packages up to 16 Mbps.

You, or your landlord, are responsible for the quality of the line, within the building from TRUE's demarcation point. However the landlord is probably not contractually responsible for providing a line of a certain quality, unless this is covered in the rental agreement? What is the cost of installing a new line?

Was this alternative line really a 2nd line, or was it spliced off of your single phone line? Did they change the connection to this alternative line with the connection to the TRUE line? Do you use the telephone? How is the audio quality during calls? Do you have other phone jacks in the unit? What make/model modem do you have?

[nikster]

12Mbit is easy provided you're not too far from the exchange. I tested my line which is pretty far away from the exchange, but pretty good because it's new and I supposedly have a 12Mbit maximum speed on a line 3.5 kms from the DSLAM. So I think you're correct about the problem - you can just check your current connection speed, S/N ratio and attenuation, and look up your max speed online... Google it.

That said, I don't think your landlord is under obligation to fix up the line for you. This shouldn't be very expensive, like a few thousand baht, so check into it. Totally agree with lomatopo above - unless your rental contract says something about a certain speed DSL line, you'll have to pay for it yourself.

[HardenedSoul]

Standard phone lines can support up to 24 Mbps using ADSL 2+ (12 Mbps using ADSL 2). TRUE markets standard ADSL services in packages up to 16 Mbps.

You, or your landlord, are responsible for the quality of the line, within the building from TRUE's demarcation point. However the landlord is probably not contractually responsible for providing a line of a certain quality, unless this is covered in the rental agreement? What is the cost of installing a new line?

Was this alternative line really a 2nd line, or was it spliced off of your single phone line? Did they change the connection to this alternative line with the connection to the TRUE line? Do you use the telephone? How is the audio quality during calls? Do you have other phone jacks in the unit? What make/model modem do you have?

12Mbit is easy provided you're not too far from the exchange. I tested my line which is pretty far away from the exchange, but pretty good because it's new and I supposedly have a 12Mbit maximum speed on a line 3.5 kms from the DSLAM. So I think you're correct about the problem - you can just check your current connection speed, S/N ratio and attenuation, and look up your max speed online... Google it.

That said, I don't think your landlord is under obligation to fix up the line for you. This shouldn't be very expensive, like a few thousand baht, so check into it. Totally agree with lomatopo above - unless your rental contract says something about a certain speed DSL line, you'll have to pay for it yourself.

Thanks for the replies, gents. Surely a standard telephone line in good working order should be de rigeur in an apartment costing north of 35000 a month. The thing is that currently, speed tests have been showing no more than 6Mbps since the technician visited some three or four weeks ago. Obviously this means that the speed has deteriorated further.

No reference was made to the telephone line in the contract but I had no reason to suspect that its performance would be sub-standard and if, as you suggest, 12Mbps should be easy on a standard line in the Asoke area of Bangkok, then the internal infrastructure is in poor condition and should be brought up to code at the building management's expense.

Lomatopo, I'm not sure if it was really a second line but the technician didn't have to do any re-splicing before I plugged the modem back into the original telephone socket. There are two phone sockets - one upstairs and one downstairs. I don't have a landline in the apartment. The modem is a Netgear DG834Gv4. The upstairs socket only gives 5Mbps. The new, upgraded line is supposed to cost about 3000 baht but it's not the money, it's the principle. I could accept this in an apartment costing 10-15K a month but, at this level, it's not really something I should have to be dealing with.

Edited October 21, 2010 by HardenedSoul

[mca]

Needless to say, I'm reluctant to do so because, before signing up for the 12Mbps package, I was informed, by True, that the telephone line could accommodate the speed I wanted. They made no suggestion that the line would need to be anything other than standard.

That's handy to know with True because when I signed up with TOT and said I wanted the all singing all dancing package they were upfront enough to tell me that where I lived and the line quality would only their handle 4 meg package.

[lomatopo]

Can you post the ADSL Line Statistics?

See page 4-7 ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/DG834Gv4_RMsrc_13Sep07.pdf

Connection Speed

Line Attenuation

Noise Margin

for both upstream and downstream. (Any speedtest website is pretty useless information.)

You should also contact TRUE and ask them to test the line and to tell you what the maximum downstream data rate they think they can support/provide.

Edited October 21, 2010 by lomatopo

[harrry]

You can think yourself lucky you are not in Australia. Telstra will only guarantee their line will support 250kb

[negreanu]

Look at the router and get the line statistics Sync rate and max attainable sync rate.

Previous building i was in would only sync at 8-10mb on True's 16mb Premium package. Got the building to change the pair of wires to the room and the sync rate was as advertised.

Building internal wiring is a significant factor. Router brand. Broadcom chipset routers tend to give slightly bettter results and stability with True's DSLAMS.

Edited October 21, 2010 by negreanu

[HardenedSoul]

Can you post the ADSL Line Statistics?

See page 4-7 ftp://downloads.netgear.com/files/DG834Gv4_RMsrc_13Sep07.pdf

Connection Speed

Line Attenuation

Noise Margin

for both upstream and downstream. (Any speedtest website is pretty useless information.)

You should also contact TRUE and ask them to test the line and to tell you what the maximum downstream data rate they think they can support/provide.

Connection Speed - 5754 Down / 605 Up

Line attenuation - 30.0db Down / 11.0db Up

Noise Margin 11.8db Down / 27.2db Up

True have already told me that the line is able to handle 12Mbps on several occasions but the internal line needs to be working properly.

[negreanu]

Its your internal wiring. Your currently only sync'd to the DSLAM at 5754.

Would look in the phone "Box" in your condo and see how many pairs of wires are coming into your particular condo unit. and get he CONDO engineering to switch the pairs for you. Resync the router/modem and see the sync rate.

True are telling you that the line can support 12mb to the building. what happens from the building entry point to your condo is down to the building.

See my previous post above exact same problem. If you have 3 pairs of wires to your condo u can try all 3 to find the pair that works best.

Failing that try a Broadcom chipset router (Google) and play around with DMT Tools.

The best bet is trying all the pairs of wires available to you in the condo.

You have disconnected everything from all sockets to see if its noise from something else connected to the line right?

The line is not faulty and the landlord will not pay to repair it. its just bad wiring in the building.

If you cannot get the above done. Your only option is to order a second line order a new internet service on that. Take the gamble its better and if it is cancel the old line and internet service - its a risk tho.

Edited October 21, 2010 by negreanu

[RedNIvar]

Needless to say, I'm reluctant to do so because, before signing up for the 12Mbps package, I was informed, by True, that the telephone line could accommodate the speed I wanted. They made no suggestion that the line would need to be anything other than standard.

I was also informed by TRUE, that the World Cup would have English commentary if I signed up for their HD package. Didn't happen. I for one do not trust True. Having been burnt before by them, I feel everything they say is UNTRUE.

[lomatopo]

Connection Speed - 5754 Down / 605 Up

Line attenuation - 30.0db Down / 11.0db Up

Noise Margin 11.8db Down / 27.2db Up

True have already told me that the line is able to handle 12Mbps on several occasions but the internal line needs to be working properly.

Noise Margin 11.8db Down would seem to be the problem and limiting you to 6 Mbps or less, while your attenuation figure indicates the line could go as high as ~ 15 Mbps. Definitely an in-house wiring issue which needs to be addressed.

FWIW your router has a Broadcom DSL chipset (BCM6348) although I do not believe this is important.

[negreanu]

Broadcom DSL chipset (BCM6348) although I do not believe this is important.

In which case have a play with DMTtools it wont do any harm. Although the wiring is the issue.

[HardenedSoul]

Its your internal wiring. Your currently only sync'd to the DSLAM at 5754.

Would look in the phone "Box" in your condo and see how many pairs of wires are coming into your particular condo unit. and get he CONDO engineering to switch the pairs for you. Resync the router/modem and see the sync rate.

The line is not faulty and the landlord will not pay to repair it. its just bad wiring in the building.

Noise Margin 11.8db Down would seem to be the problem and limiting you to 6 Mbps or less, while your attenuation figure indicates the line could go as high as ~ 15 Mbps. Definitely an in-house wiring issue which needs to be addressed.

Thanks for this guys. The landlord and the building management are one and the same entity so I'm assuming that they're responsible for the internal line infrastructure both inside my apartment and down to the point where it meets True's DSLAM. The pairs were already switched with favorable results but, as I said, I didn't want the router hanging out of a cupboard by its cable some six feet in the air courtesy of a typical Thai "twist 'n' tape" approach to electrical wiring.

If I can get them to, perhaps, run the wiring for the switched pairs to the existing downstairs phone socket, that might be an acceptable compromise.

Failing this, I think I'll just take them out of the equation altogether and order a new line installed by someone competent and equipped with more than a pair of pliers and a roll of black tape.

Thanks again, gents. Much appreciated.