True Internet (Bizarre Throughput Patterns) Do You See Them Too?

[bkinbkk]

Hello everyone.

I am looking to find out if anyone else sees strange bandwidth patterns with True at their home.

I am looking for substantive and helpful feedback to my issue. Please refrain from general replies like "they're awful" and "oh man..."

I have a (now) 7-meg connection (free upgrade recently) with True Internet. I have the premium package which give me 1-meg upload and 7-meg down.

For months, yes months, I have had trouble keeping a full-speed connection with providers I know are streaming at at least 7-meg down. The pattern is always the same. I keep the 100% bandwidth and then NOTHING. My connection goes from full-speed to ZERO throughput. This ZERO throughput lasts for about 1 to 2 minutes and then without prompting it returns to full speed.

I am an IT professional and I cannot explain this.

ALL devices in my household see the exact same behavior. My main computer is attached directly to the router, -the others by WiFi (G and N).

I have ruled out or replaced the wiring, the router, the devices, the WiFi radios in the devices and the services I am connecting to.

True is true-ly useless on this. They told me, and I quote "well, it is because you not shut off your router everyday. You must do like your computer and turn it off everyday and reboot it". Right....

I cannot get any other substantive answer from them. The True tech has been out three times now and cannot see anything wrong.

When I query my router the signal db (showing the router is getting enough signal to support the upload and download speed) is exactly where it should be -- INCLUDING during the times the internet goes to ZERO throughput.

If I didn't think it was crazy I would think that True was telling my local router (upstream) to shut down my connection because I am using my allotted bandwidth.

I am looking to find out if anyone else sees this pattern at their home.

I CANNOT change from True in my building because they have a monopoly here and they are the only choice. -- Please no replies telling me how I should get tough with my building and demand a different provider -- that won't work.

Thank you everyone.

EXAMPLE ATTACHED with the behavior using a bandwidth metering product I have.

[sulasno]

is 3BB wifi available where you are located ?

[givenall]

I just changed from TOT to True(6M) because of the same reason and Ture is behaving the same. I guess all Thailand inter providers goes through TOT system and they all behave the same. This must be they way there are set and I don’t know why either

[stormnight]

What about DNS settings ?

i have TRUE Internet too. (same package)

i use the Google DNS server (8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4)

i do not have these issues, but sometimes i have to reboot the router to get connection again.

another thing to check is the "half-open" connection block, it will be listed in the event viewer, if it is windows acting up (this is only for windows).

[bkinbkk]

is 3BB wifi available where you are located ?

No, only True WiFi (and a weak signal at that).

[bkinbkk]

What about DNS settings ?

i have TRUE Internet too. (same package)

i use the Google DNS server (8.8.8.8/8.8.4.4)

i do not have these issues, but sometimes i have to reboot the router to get connection again.

another thing to check is the "half-open" connection block, it will be listed in the event viewer, if it is windows acting up (this is only for windows).

Thank you for the DNS suggestion but this is not the issue. DNS provides source routing information for connections but does not affect established connections. My issue is with established connections. As a matter of fact I am writing this a second time because my internet died while editing this post and the browser window didn't recover my edit.

It is good to know you have True and do not see this issue.

[bkksw]

I've noticed this for a long time.. both with my old 1mb service, and my new 16mb service. Over the years I've noticed a pattern showing this behavior increases with bad weather and undersea cable outages.

I think what they're doing is 'polling', where they probably have a cap on bandwidth.. they reach that cap.. and the way it's handled is to cut sections off to reduce the load. There will be days when this behavior cycles through the busy time of the day, other days (like when the cables out) where it never stops.. usually this is accompanied by very low speeds as well.. and then periods of 3-4-5 hours during non-busy times when it functions properly.

Once they cut off a section.. many services won't automatically restart. Many people keep their stream running even when not there, ISP TV would be an example.. music, video, they just close the browser and walk away and meanwhile they're using a big chunk of bandwidth. Cutting off a section turns these people off, and makes most restart their streams. This must make a significant difference in bandwidth.

What I haven't quite figured out.. is if they're using a computer program to do it.. or if its Somchai regulated. Probably a computer, it's too reliably bad to be anything else.

Many light users won't even notice.. but anyone who streams video/music is probably being driven mad..

I hate this practice and their business model that would allow it. I'd rather pay whatever it takes to get reliable service. If they charged by data usage, vs. "all you can eat", without the outages.. I'd gladly pay.

[internetFML]

>>> "well, it is because you not shut off your router everyday. You must do like your computer and turn it off everyday and reboot it". Right....

You should do this from time to time, cheap routers aren't great. You should reboot them from time to time. Also it may be overheat, I put my on the air con unit.

If this is your problem you should be able to see the router disconnected when you log into the router homepage

I'm not saying this is your problem though

[petedk]

Yes, I have also noticed this. It usually happens around 7 am every day. I thought I was the only one this was happening to as I complained several times.

I have started to turn off my connection for a few minutes each morning around 6.30 and this seems to help.

[filingaccount]

Either your modem or router is the device at fault.

I had this exact same issue when I went from a 2 Mbit connection several years ago to a 8 Mbit connection. Took a couple of days of troubleshooting, but the culprit was the old ADSL modem. Changed it to a modern (at the time) ADSL modem and all troubles went away.

There is 2 possible scenarios why your modem and/or router fails.

Too many concurrent connections/requests which is overwhelming the device. Quite common with public tracker torrents.

Not fast enough to properly allow for fast bandwidth throughput and buffer fills up. When the buffer is full, it cuts and flushes. The amount of time it takes depends on the processing power of the device.

[givenall]

Either your modem or router is the device at fault.

I had this exact same issue when I went from a 2 Mbit connection several years ago to a 8 Mbit connection. Took a couple of days of troubleshooting, but the culprit was the old ADSL modem. Changed it to a modern (at the time) ADSL modem and all troubles went away.

There is 2 possible scenarios why your modem and/or router fails.

Too many concurrent connections/requests which is overwhelming the device. Quite common with public tracker torrents.

Not fast enough to properly allow for fast bandwidth throughput and buffer fills up. When the buffer is full, it cuts and flushes. The amount of time it takes depends on the processing power of the device.

Then how you explain when it is different during the day, with the same usage pattern. It seems to be worst right around 9 pm and not so bad around 3pm

The explanation give by bkksw, seems to explain the problem the best

So what True has said when the problem is explain to them or are they too dumb to understand?

Then how you explain when it is different during the day, with the same usage pattern. It seems to be worst right around 9 pm and not so bad around 3pm

The explanation give by bkksw, seems to explain the problem the best

So what True has said when the problem is explain to them or are they too dumb to understand?

One more thing, as I mentioned above I changed my provider from TOT to True thinking TOT is bad, but the problem seems to have gotten worse with True

[filingaccount]

Then how you explain when it is different during the day, with the same usage pattern. It seems to be worst right around 9 pm and not so bad around 3pm

The explanation give by bkksw, seems to explain the problem the best

So what True has said when the problem is explain to them or are they too dumb to understand?

One more thing, as I mentioned above I changed my provider from TOT to True thinking TOT is bad, but the problem seems to have gotten worse with True

I went through the thread again, and neither you nor bkinbkk mention anything about "time of day" when the problem occurs. (for future reference, please provide as much detail as possible to gain a more comprehensive and accurate reply).

bkksw's "explanation" no more than guessing and theories at this point.

We are talking about an issue that is most likely a local problem (eg. user equipment), and thus the solution is as explained.

If the solution fails, then we can move forward.

No point in shifting the "blame" to somewhere we can not control, stick our heads in the sand and moan about it.

[phazey]

I've seen this before, from the other side. I'd hazard a guess and say there was some session limiting or rate limiting somewhere on the gateway, more likely the content control boxes true use.

I hope you use Linux for this next step. Rate limit your ethernet connection to 1mb, 2mb etc etc up to your 7mb and see if the drops still occur, i'd say they will...

Just re-read the thread so i'll make it clearer. A box somewhere will only allow say 250,000 connections or sessions at one point. what you see here are some of your sessions being dropped by the box to make way for more. If your traffic is P2P, i'd also say that this type or traffic has a lower priority to http traffic. Probably also, the licenses on the box are too small for the number of subscribers.

Hint: they are using Bluecoat SG8100/ISP boxes, these i know come with a maximum session license.

[lomatopo]

I manage several TRUE installations and have not seen this phenomenon.

Can you tell us which applications you are running (which use the bandwidth)? Also what is the time-scale on the attached graph? And how often does this drop-out occur? Without more detail it will be challenging to troubleshoot.

Also what make/model router? Can you provide any line stats?

[givenall]

I manage several TRUE installations and have not seen this phenomenon.

Can you tell us which applications you are running (which use the bandwidth)? Also what is the time-scale on the attached graph? And how often does this drop-out occur? Without more detail it will be challenging to troubleshoot.

Also what make/model router? Can you provide any line stats?

Ok let’s see if I can describe my experience;

I used have TOT and I am doing video streaming (setup box) it worked pretty well and only sometimes the internet dropped and the video streaming stopped, I did notice that TOT internet also would not work during when I had video problem. I read and many articles and I concluded it may be because of the TOT equipment. This problem with TOT happened randomly during the day and the interruption was for minimum of 15 min and sometimes 2 hrs

Now I have True, and I see the problem more often especially during the night between 9:00 Pm to 11:00 PM. The drop is for only few min but a lot more often.

So I am not an IT person but this phenomenon never happened in US, especially with similar Linksys wireless router

[bkinbkk]

I manage several TRUE installations and have not seen this phenomenon.

Can you tell us which applications you are running (which use the bandwidth)? Also what is the time-scale on the attached graph? And how often does this drop-out occur? Without more detail it will be challenging to troubleshoot.

Also what make/model router? Can you provide any line stats?

Thank you. I've sent a private message to your account here.

[lomatopo]

I manage several TRUE installations and have not seen this phenomenon.

Can you tell us which applications you are running (which use the bandwidth)? Also what is the time-scale on the attached graph? And how often does this drop-out occur? Without more detail it will be challenging to troubleshoot.

Also what make/model router? Can you provide any line stats?

Thank you. I've sent a private message to your account here.

Better to share as much information here as they are many people, more savvy than I, who may be able to pinpoint your problem. Right now, without a lot more information, it is impossible to determine what the issue(s) might be.

givenall, you need to tell us which applications you are running, router make, line stats, new problem, old problem, etc. More detail is required.

[filingaccount]

I manage several TRUE installations and have not seen this phenomenon.

Can you tell us which applications you are running (which use the bandwidth)? Also what is the time-scale on the attached graph? And how often does this drop-out occur? Without more detail it will be challenging to troubleshoot.

Also what make/model router? Can you provide any line stats?

I have seen this, but it was with old and/or outdated hardware (modem, router, etc). The connection would cut out as soon as many concurrent connections would be made and also when the bandwidth was being saturated by several threads while downloading (using a download manager). The early generations of ADSL modems and routers were never designed to handle massive bandwidth requirements over long periods of time nor where they designed to handle a massive overload of concurrent connections that torrents generally generate.

I wholeheartedly agree that more information is needed to accurately determine the cause of the problem, however, I have given up on asking for more info in threads and instead provide a partial solution based on the info given. I do not even attempt to try to help in threads where the question is akin to "I have computer problems, what do?".

I this thread the OP was quite detailed, which is very much appreciated, and the similarities to what I have seen previously allowed me to draw a conclusion that should solve OP's issues. If it doesn't, then there are of course several more steps to trouble shooting, but that would have to be much more in depth.

[bkksw]

bkksw's "explanation" no more than guessing and theories at this point.

Yep, it's a guess just like your theory is. Unless you're at the source monitoring the equipment in real time it's all a guess.

In my case I've went through a 5-6 modems, 3 routers, and even replaced my switch just in case.. the True tech has become my new best friend he's around so much and my 16mb connection is tweaked to 20mb (the guy likes chocolate cake, what can I say..) He's been here no less than 30 times over the last 3-4 months since I went to 16mb trying to solve this problem. He's switched out modems many times, brought known working modems from another location and tried them, he switched out my port on the switch in my building, then after two months replaced the entire node.

So.. a local problem? Perhaps. But at this point both the True tech, his supervisor, several of his fellow techs, and myself haven't found it. The problem continues.

It's also telling the pattern is the same whether or not it's a 1mb connection or the 16mb connection. It's also not a local node/area issue if it's happening to others in this thread. If it was a problem that just started and could be traced to a recent shipment of modems a bunch of customers just took home perhaps.. but our sampling size in this thread doesn't support that's the case.

The techs aren't allowed to guess about what they're doing back a the office, but his inference is clear.. he knows it's not here so where else could it be?

I think the ISP's would be very embarrassed if the truth ever got out.. instead of spending the money to buy enough bandwidth to service their customers, they rack up profits and plead dumb..

[filingaccount]

bkksw's "explanation" no more than guessing and theories at this point.

Yep, it's a guess just like your theory is.

I was squarely replying to the thread starters post, not yours.

Based on HIS symptoms (not yours) it all points towards what I explained.

I never attempted to answer your issue, and only dismissed it as irrelevant to the original post.

If you'd like me to address your issue, I'd be happy to do so. You just have to ask.

[bkksw]

bkksw's "explanation" no more than guessing and theories at this point.

Yep, it's a guess just like your theory is.

I was squarely replying to the thread starters post, not yours.

Based on HIS symptoms (not yours) it all points towards what I explained.

I never attempted to answer your issue, and only dismissed it as irrelevant to the original post.

If you'd like me to address your issue, I'd be happy to do so. You just have to ask.

Yep, like you said a guess. An educated guess I'm sure, but a guess nonetheless. We are in agreement.

Sure, address my issue but would you also tell us why you don't think it's related to the OP's?

[filingaccount]

Sure, address my issue but would you also tell us why you don't think it's related to the OP's?

Yours and the OP's issues differs in a few ways. They might seem small, but make all the difference.

bkinbkk (OP) states: "ZERO throughput lasts for about 1 to 2 minutes and then without prompting it returns to full speed."

Second statement: "When I query my router the signal db (showing the router is getting enough signal to support the upload and download speed) is exactly where it should be -- INCLUDING during the times the internet goes to ZERO throughput."

Quite precise statements, repeatable at any time for sure.

This is a strong indication to the problem I have described. The remedy is to swap out the ADSL modem and/or router(s). Step 1 should be to change the modem.

I would venture to state that the problem is not present if the bandwidth is lowered/throttled to 2 Mbps or less. This is not an ISP problem, but a local hardware issue.

bkksw states that bandwidth varies depending on rain, undersea cable cuttings and the issues last sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, sometimes fine during "peak hours", sometimes not.

No real pattern, quite random. This points to external sources as you so clearly state yourself. A mix of lack of ISP bandwidth (most likely international), undersea cable cuts, rain infiltrating the DSLAM and similar issues. Basically a sub-par ISP service. AFAIK. the True contract we all sign states we are allowed about 4400 MB of data per 24 hours. I have never seen it enforced on my end, but perhaps they are enforcing it for others.

Perhaps a partial solution is to ask your line to be rerouted (if they have enough redundancy and capacity). I have had them reroute my link several times (central BKK) when the services have been interrupted and they estimate a 24-48 hour repair time. Another quite odd solution is to seed a few torrents - limit them to 1 KB/s upload, global peers set to 50-100 - and have them act as keep alives of sorts. There is no real solution to a sub-par ISP experience. Complain in constructive manners, change ISP's, pay a premium for business accounts, change from ADSL to SDSL/Cable/Fiber/Other.

I relay a lot on streaming media (radio mostly, but more and more live video) and I must say I do not have any problems technically with True right now and haven't had any problems with them for quite a while, except the 12 hour outage suffered a few weeks back. I did have quite a lot of conversations with them over a period of several months a long time ago to address issues. They were solved bit by bit, and now services are as good as could be expected for a bandwidth starved country (~158 GBps internationally and ~720 Gbps nationally). International bandwidth more or less doubles every 12 months in Thailand looking at historical records (except 2006).

I hope that sheds some light on the differences in problem.

[bkksw]

Sure, address my issue but would you also tell us why you don't think it's related to the OP's?

I hope that sheds some light on the differences in problem.

It does.. and of course it raises more questions.

1. Curious if the OP could confirm his issues.

2. Does the 4400mb limit change with the service, or is this all accounts? So far we've never had any issues with them cutting us off.. but if they did, I'd order and pay for a second line to solve the issue. I was running two lines through a RV042 for a long time when the only service was the 1mb package. Now I'm using a WRT350 and 8 port switch and the RV042 is collecting dust..

3. They've rerouted the lines a few times, nothing seems to change. The node that serves our tower was even replaced (32 stories, 4 apartments per floor, 2 lines possible at least per unit.. so it's probably supporting 50-75 lines/accounts) but the phone lines still come by way of squirrels and pigeons..

4. I have constant problems with live video.. using a slingbox connected to a 50mbps line, 25mbps upload, in the states.. and am usually downloading torrents in the background.. and an IM client is up. The video freezes, the torrents slow to nothing, the IM client goes off-line.. and the IP is lost (router admin status page). This usually lasts 30-120 seconds, the IM client flips back on automatically, the torrents restart automatically.. but the sling client needs to be stopped and reset. So far this afternoon this has repeated itself over 10 times. Last night right before midnight it did the same.. but for longer periods.. 120-600 seconds each time. This is standard at this time.. almost predictable. Throughout the rest of the day its' common to watch the cycle 20-30-40 times.. other days its' flawless.

[sniffdog]

I am on the 16Mbit package and get upto 1.9MBs downloads in the wee hours. However, in the daytime/nighttime speeds from US servers dwindle down to under 100KBs (and that's on 16 connections IDM).

It starts real fast (upto 1.5MBS) but within 1 minutes it drops down to under 100KBs. I called True and they admitted that they don't have enough bandwidth. Download from Germany are good though (1.5MBs)

even in the evenings.

My solution was to get a VPN (ibvpn) and now the speeds have increased tenfold.

[bkksw]

Sure, address my issue but would you also tell us why you don't think it's related to the OP's?

This is a strong indication to the problem I have described. The remedy is to swap out the ADSL modem and/or router(s). Step 1 should be to change the modem.

I would venture to state that the problem is not present if the bandwidth is lowered/throttled to 2 Mbps or less. This is not an ISP problem, but a local hardware issue.

Flashing back through my mind.. the three routers I've tried and had problems with were Linksys.. and the two the tech brought and tried were Linksys. I've always liked Cisco products and have used them for years and they've mostly been bulletproof.. but this is the first time I've used them with an ASDL PPPoE account. Still, all being linksys.. and then reading this made me pause.

Something I've been meaning to do since taking the RV042 out of the system is to try a third party firmware with my WRT-350n to regain my VPN capabilities. After reading your responses and the rest of this thread I decided to do it this afternoon.

After flashing my WRT-350n with a third party firmware, setting account info, forwarding ports, DDNS settings, a bit of overclocking, etc, etc.. it was working fine. Immediately I noticed much faster speeds. Not in the "speedtest.com" sort of way.. but in the site to site things flashing up 10x faster sort of way. And since the firmware upgrade.. the connection hasn't dropped.

I ran Speedtest and Pingest before the upgrade. Before, Speeds were 18-19mbps/1mbps Pingtest was D's and F's consistently.. alway has been. After, speeds were 12-13mbps/1mbps with Pingtests of A's and B's consistently.

Is it possible True significantly improved the net during the hour I was down and changing firmware? I suppose.. I won't believe any change is permanent until a few weeks go by with good results.. but I thought I'd mention it. There are some very useful options in the new firmware.. like being able to change your wifi power output..

I'd be thrilled if things stay this way.. more thrilled if during non-peak hours my speeds increase back up to 19-20mbps.. and still pings A's and B's and it does it without dropping. Either way, the 'apparent' speed is greatly improved. For now. With my luck it's just a fluke and the router will blow up at midnight..

[Somtamnication]

The only other issue is the cabling from the house to the pole. Check it or replace it. Worked wonders for me.