Time For Bib To Start Earning Their Pay

[Gonzo the Face]

.... and something else that is not rare to see over here is the use of the small portable TV's on the dashboard of vans or some cars.

Talk about distraction.... Think what comes to mind when you are sitting at a red light and the guy [ driver ]next to you is watching the tv with his/her kids.... you don't know if you want him in front or behind you when the light turns green

Edited October 30, 2010 by Gonzo the Face

[Ulysses G.]

I have seen the drivers of long distance buses watching TV while driving. Needless to say, I did not get a lot of rest on that trip.

[caf]

Couldn't agree with you more. I watched one girl cross the Hangdong highway and carry out a 'U' turn all one handed whislt yakking. Frightening. There is one problem with enforcing the law though. You have to stop the Police from doing the same so that they may set an example and not have to book themselves. Maybe that is why there have not been many helmet raids lately as a number of Police officers on my stretch of the Hangdong Highway ride without a helmet preferring their safety police soft baseball type caps instead.

I doubt if the police are even schooled in basic traffic laws. Most Thai traffic law is copied from the real world in some shape or form, thus the ticket to farang when the motorbike was overtaking thru the intersection is probably due to lack of knowledge or the mind set to ignore the law by the policeman. It would be interesting to see what offense the 1000 baht fine was for.

They have some training but not to the extent of that in the west i would suggest.

It is not that they are not enforcing the law "as we see it from western eyes" it is that they are enforcing it thai-style. Thais value freedom and one interpretation of that makes it look a bit like anarchy.

Overtaking a right signaling car is against the letter of the law but not against this ingrained value of freedom. Notice that thai drivers signaling right will still watch out for and expect a biker to possibly overtake.

And there's nothing wrong with defensive driving.

The biker's actions as quoted were dangerous and stupid

Expats don't have to understand that Thais have different values - it's not obligatory - but it might be helpful if they did

Making comments as if we were still in the west is not really that productive

[ableguy]

" Imagine what the driver who hits and kills someone in an example like this, will have to live with that split second image, for the rest of their lives. Through absolutely no fault of their own. "

Scary indeed and don't want to be that person. Bad enough to live with that but chances are because you are a farang and the deceased is a Thai, good luck with the law and who's right and wrong. Don't mean to sound biased or prejudice but have seen similar instances not in favor of the farang.

Have to add my bit. I got passed the other day by a lady on motorbike holding what looked like a brand new baby weeks not months old, holding an open brolly as it was raining whilst talking on the phone and to top it there was a dog on the bike with its paws on the handle bar, wish I could have taken a photo. All I can say is brain dead and I doubt things will change in my life time, when I first started driving here I hated moter bikes and drivers with a passion, now I treat them with the greatest respect, never curse them dont get angry and give way all the time, its the only way I can cope, and god forbid if one ever hits me as you all know it will be my fault.

[cdnvic]

I removed one post and quotes of it due to a personal attack. Everyone knows this is against the rules so don't complain when you do it and your post vanishes.

[paulchiangmai]

Would you believe I saw radar set up on the side of the road the other day, about five clics Chiang Mai side of Doi Saket, about a dozen cars pulled over for whatever and many motor cycles, drivers all without helmet. In fact I was waved on but all others I saw were pulled over. I had my lid on.

[Thighlander]

They refuse to control animals, and you expect them to enforce traffic laws?

[wolf5370]

Couldn't agree with you more. I watched one girl cross the Hangdong highway and carry out a 'U' turn all one handed whislt yakking. Frightening. There is one problem with enforcing the law though. You have to stop the Police from doing the same so that they may set an example and not have to book themselves. Maybe that is why there have not been many helmet raids lately as a number of Police officers on my stretch of the Hangdong Highway ride without a helmet preferring their safety police soft baseball type caps instead.

I doubt if the police are even schooled in basic traffic laws. Most Thai traffic law is copied from the real world in some shape or form, thus the ticket to farang when the motorbike was overtaking thru the intersection is probably due to lack of knowledge or the mind set to ignore the law by the policeman. It would be interesting to see what offense the 1000 baht fine was for.

They have some training but not to the extent of that in the west i would suggest.

It is not that they are not enforcing the law "as we see it from western eyes" it is that they are enforcing it thai-style. Thais value freedom and one interpretation of that makes it look a bit like anarchy.

Overtaking a right signaling car is against the letter of the law but not against this ingrained value of freedom. Notice that thai drivers signaling right will still watch out for and expect a biker to possibly overtake.

And there's nothing wrong with defensive driving.

The biker's actions as quoted were dangerous and stupid

Expats don't have to understand that Thais have different values - it's not obligatory - but it might be helpful if they did

Making comments as if we were still in the west is not really that productive

Its not always about defensive driving. I have ridden a bike since I was 16, and have taken advanced biking courses and defensive driving course to boot. About a year back whilst driving a car: The road was lanes (not a dual carriageway but a wide road), the inner two 'lanes' were empty, lane I am in is crawling. I need to turn right, have my indicators going and have moved road position so I am close to the centre lane so I can be seen from behind. I have 4 kids in the car as we are going swimming and I have some neighbour's kids along with my 2. The road is busy both ways. When there is a break in the on coming traffic, I ceck with mirrors and life-saver (over shoulder glance) and begin to move. Just as I am almost perpedicular to the road and about to go forward, a 4X4 cars back pulls out of the line of traffic and accelearets hard straight into my side. I watched him do it - so it was not that I "didn't see him", I heard him revving like an idiot too. I'm in a 4 door red saloon about 11am on a clear day. He had 2 lanes inside ofme to undertake in if he was in a hurry. There was no where he could go even if I wasn't there as the line of traffic bwent on for a long way distant and oncoming traffic would have hit hit head on before he got a break. Side on, I could not have been more visible.

The guy was Thai, in the car alone, and sober. I didn't see a phone, but suspected it (why else?). He was shaken, but OK. The kids were OK thanks to side impact bars-side completely caved in - hard hit!. The 4X4 was white with stencilled Thai- didn't bother reading it as the Government plates told me everything I needed to know - this was going to be my fault. Anyway, after chatting with the driver, and due to the minor damage to his truck, we swapped numbers and left - no cops came or were called.No come back to date. I guess he was embarassed, but I knew if I made any kind of claim it would suddenly be me pulling out in front of him and causing an accident.

Bikers actions here are dangerous and stupid- stupidity is a transferable commodity - stupid is stupid anywhere on the planet, dangerous is dangerous anywhere on the planet. Excusing Thais for any reason of culture is not only positive descrimination its also like saying they are too stupid tomlearn, which is not true. Perhaps too lazy in many cases or too blind to see the obvious. Its all about education- kids drive to schoool on scooters without helmets, make this punishable in the schools - make it necessary that they be wearing a helmet to be allowed to park at school. Make the fine for using hand held phones whilst driving to inclkude the loss of that phone - quite happy for the copper to keep it even. The money they spend on nice new phones in proportion to income is large, so a definite disincentive is too loose it. Same with no helmets - fine and loss of license for say 1 week ( have to claim it from the station) - clamp the bike until they return with helmets.

In truth helmets are more of a freedom arguement (excluding kids of course)-if you don't wear one and get your brains dashed in on a minor fall, then som num nah - phones and dangerous driving are not, they cause damage to society (by causing death and harm to others). Kids in arms should never be on bikes - it probably costs as much to go by song taew as to drive anywhere anyway, so its just laziness and lack of care and consideration - I think kids killed this way should result in the arrest of the rider (and/or child holder) for man slaughter or at a minumum negligent homicide.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I subscribe to the concept that cultures tend to develop due to their surroundings and environment. Cultures that formed in warm and relatively supportive climates tended to not need to develop as much predictive mental apparatus. For contrast consider a culture that developed with climate extremes like Northern Europe. These cultures needed to really think ahead and prepare for terrible winters and harsh conditions. Some of the safest countries for transportation are very good engineers and planners because they had to be for so long. Sweden, Finland, Norway are good examples.

In Thailand the living was relatively easy. Something would fall off a tree or could catch a fish. Meals were easy to come by. The relatively easy conditions meant that long term planning and vigilance were not a high priority survival skills.

Just being in the moment and enjoying life is a quality a lot of people like about Thai culture. Having that attitude in an Alpine or Arctic climate would be literally short lived.

So next time you see a Thai driver barreling down the road realize his/her brain just doesn't do so much predicting and calculating about future events. They are packing a different software package. They are living more in the moment.

Edited October 31, 2010 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[jayjay0]

.... and something else that is not rare to see over here is the use of the small portable TV's on the dashboard of vans or some cars.

Talk about distraction.... Think what comes to mind when you are sitting at a red light and the guy [ driver ]next to you is watching the tv with his/her kids.... you don't know if you want him in front or behind you when the light turns green

It's got to be distracting driving down the street and trying to look in other cars to see if thy are watching TV. Just because they have one doesn't mean they are watching it. My son in law has one and if thy are traveling a ways he lets the kids watch it. I don't think it is that easy to look in some of the vehicles with dark windows.

When I am sitting at a red light it makes no difference what they are doing. Besides at best I can only see into four cars.

[Gonzo the Face]

Don't know why but it just popped into my head

......if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck..... well

I guess some people would put a portable tv on the dashboard to keep it from blowing away in the wind.....

I have to say lame excuse JJ0

[caf]

I subscribe to the concept that cultures tend to develop due to their surroundings and environment. Cultures that formed in warm and relatively supportive climates tended to not need to develop as much predictive mental apparatus. For contrast consider a culture that developed with climate extremes like Northern Europe. These cultures needed to really think ahead and prepare for terrible winters and harsh conditions. Some of the safest countries for transportation are very good engineers and planners because they had to be for so long. Sweden, Finland, Norway are good examples.

In Thailand the living was relatively easy. Something would fall off a tree or could catch a fish. Meals were easy to come by. The relatively easy conditions meant that long term planning and vigilance were not a high priority survival skills.

Just being in the moment and enjoying life is a quality a lot of people like about Thai culture. Having that attitude in an Alpine or Arctic climate would be literally short lived.

So next time you see a Thai driver barreling down the road realize his/her brain just doesn't do so much predicting and calculating about future events. They are packing a different software package. They are living more in the moment.

There's much in what you say and there is research and observation to prove it.

[jayjay0]

I subscribe to the concept that cultures tend to develop due to their surroundings and environment. Cultures that formed in warm and relatively supportive climates tended to not need to develop as much predictive mental apparatus. For contrast consider a culture that developed with climate extremes like Northern Europe. These cultures needed to really think ahead and prepare for terrible winters and harsh conditions. Some of the safest countries for transportation are very good engineers and planners because they had to be for so long. Sweden, Finland, Norway are good examples.

In Thailand the living was relatively easy. Something would fall off a tree or could catch a fish. Meals were easy to come by. The relatively easy conditions meant that long term planning and vigilance were not a high priority survival skills.

Just being in the moment and enjoying life is a quality a lot of people like about Thai culture. Having that attitude in an Alpine or Arctic climate would be literally short lived.

So next time you see a Thai driver barreling down the road realize his/her brain just doesn't do so much predicting and calculating about future events. They are packing a different software package. They are living more in the moment.

Well said and as has been pointed out earlier a Thai will look to see if there is any one there when he makes a turn. A Farong will assume there is no one there so he will not look.

I have to admit that all though I do not drive if I did I would tend to be dangerous because of that very fact it is hard to unlearn something you have been doing for 50 years.

[caf]

Couldn't agree with you more. I watched one girl cross the Hangdong highway and carry out a 'U' turn all one handed whislt yakking. Frightening. There is one problem with enforcing the law though. You have to stop the Police from doing the same so that they may set an example and not have to book themselves. Maybe that is why there have not been many helmet raids lately as a number of Police officers on my stretch of the Hangdong Highway ride without a helmet preferring their safety police soft baseball type caps instead.

I doubt if the police are even schooled in basic traffic laws. Most Thai traffic law is copied from the real world in some shape or form, thus the ticket to farang when the motorbike was overtaking thru the intersection is probably due to lack of knowledge or the mind set to ignore the law by the policeman. It would be interesting to see what offense the 1000 baht fine was for.

They have some training but not to the extent of that in the west i would suggest.

It is not that they are not enforcing the law "as we see it from western eyes" it is that they are enforcing it thai-style. Thais value freedom and one interpretation of that makes it look a bit like anarchy.

Overtaking a right signaling car is against the letter of the law but not against this ingrained value of freedom. Notice that thai drivers signaling right will still watch out for and expect a biker to possibly overtake.

And there's nothing wrong with defensive driving.

The biker's actions as quoted were dangerous and stupid

Expats don't have to understand that Thais have different values - it's not obligatory - but it might be helpful if they did

Making comments as if we were still in the west is not really that productive

Its not always about defensive driving. I have ridden a bike since I was 16, and have taken advanced biking courses and defensive driving course to boot. About a year back whilst driving a car: The road was lanes (not a dual carriageway but a wide road), the inner two 'lanes' were empty, lane I am in is crawling. I need to turn right, have my indicators going and have moved road position so I am close to the centre lane so I can be seen from behind. I have 4 kids in the car as we are going swimming and I have some neighbour's kids along with my 2. The road is busy both ways. When there is a break in the on coming traffic, I ceck with mirrors and life-saver (over shoulder glance) and begin to move. Just as I am almost perpedicular to the road and about to go forward, a 4X4 cars back pulls out of the line of traffic and accelearets hard straight into my side. I watched him do it - so it was not that I "didn't see him", I heard him revving like an idiot too. I'm in a 4 door red saloon about 11am on a clear day. He had 2 lanes inside ofme to undertake in if he was in a hurry. There was no where he could go even if I wasn't there as the line of traffic bwent on for a long way distant and oncoming traffic would have hit hit head on before he got a break. Side on, I could not have been more visible.

The guy was Thai, in the car alone, and sober. I didn't see a phone, but suspected it (why else?). He was shaken, but OK. The kids were OK thanks to side impact bars-side completely caved in - hard hit!. The 4X4 was white with stencilled Thai- didn't bother reading it as the Government plates told me everything I needed to know - this was going to be my fault. Anyway, after chatting with the driver, and due to the minor damage to his truck, we swapped numbers and left - no cops came or were called.No come back to date. I guess he was embarassed, but I knew if I made any kind of claim it would suddenly be me pulling out in front of him and causing an accident.

Bikers actions here are dangerous and stupid- stupidity is a transferable commodity - stupid is stupid anywhere on the planet, dangerous is dangerous anywhere on the planet. Excusing Thais for any reason of culture is not only positive descrimination its also like saying they are too stupid tomlearn, which is not true. Perhaps too lazy in many cases or too blind to see the obvious. Its all about education- kids drive to schoool on scooters without helmets, make this punishable in the schools - make it necessary that they be wearing a helmet to be allowed to park at school. Make the fine for using hand held phones whilst driving to inclkude the loss of that phone - quite happy for the copper to keep it even. The money they spend on nice new phones in proportion to income is large, so a definite disincentive is too loose it. Same with no helmets - fine and loss of license for say 1 week ( have to claim it from the station) - clamp the bike until they return with helmets.

In truth helmets are more of a freedom arguement (excluding kids of course)-if you don't wear one and get your brains dashed in on a minor fall, then som num nah - phones and dangerous driving are not, they cause damage to society (by causing death and harm to others). Kids in arms should never be on bikes - it probably costs as much to go by song taew as to drive anywhere anyway, so its just laziness and lack of care and consideration - I think kids killed this way should result in the arrest of the rider (and/or child holder) for man slaughter or at a minumum negligent homicide.

--------------------

Your first paragraph is a good example of your driving defensively. you did all the right things. not many make the " life saving glance" though i've not heard it described that before.

but i am not discriminating against thais and my point was not they are too stupid to learn (i don't think they are stupid and never said so) i am making a general observation about their behaviour

better education would help as in all countries but there are differences between their values and ours ( and there is research and observation on that )

lazy, punishable in schools, negligent homicide, lack of consideration - i'm not going that road. this is not the west. thais don't want suggested comments from the west.

your point on helmets and freedom is very valid. you have seen as i have i suppose a rider take off his helmet immediately after being fined by a copper but out of sight round a corner

[jayjay0]

Don't know why but it just popped into my head

......if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck..... well

I guess some people would put a portable tv on the dashboard to keep it from blowing away in the wind.....

I have to say lame excuse JJ0

You are right if it wasn't for the fact that you are wrong. It is not a excuse it is a observation. To be perfectly honest with you I have never seen one turned on in a car and I have ridden in cars with them.

You missed my point it is no worse than driving down hew street looking into other vehicles to see if they have a Television. Much less if it is on. I see you all ready assume it is.

I am in no way saying it is rite but I all so am not posting it on a forum talking only about Thai's I know it is going on in North America and it is just as wrong there as here.

As I said earlier careful

Edited October 31, 2010 by jayjay0

[Ulysses G.]

I have seen the drivers of long distance buses watching TV while driving. Needless to say, I did not get a lot of rest on that trip.

I'm pretty sure that if bus drivers are doing it, some people driving cars are too.

[Thighlander]

I see that 8 people were killed in a speeding van today in BKK. I wonder if he had been to the same training course as that driver from Raming Lodge, that I reported to management.

[Gonzo the Face]

Don't know why but it just popped into my head

......if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck..... well

I guess some people would put a portable tv on the dashboard to keep it from blowing away in the wind.....

I have to say lame excuse JJ0

You are right if it wasn't for the fact that you are wrong. It is not a excuse it is a observation. To be perfectly honest with you I have never seen one turned on in a car and I have ridden in cars with them.

You missed my point it is no worse than driving down hew street looking into other vehicles to see if they have a Television. Much less if it is on. I see you all ready assume it is.

I am in no way saying it is rite but I all so am not posting it on a forum talking only about Thai's I know it is going on in North America and it is just as wrong there as here.

As I said earlier careful

The big difference is when police see you doing the wrong in North America, you Will get a ticket..... here it is mainly ignored by the police, which is the topic of this thread.

I do agree with you that it is in the mindset of the Thai, that I can do anything, but laws are created for the benefit of a society not an individual. If its wrong in one place then it is wrong in another place as well. If traffic laws are created for the good of a group in one country, then I am sure it would not be out of place in another country or society.

Its correct, that in Thailand there is this 'free land 'syndrome, where I can do as I please, and noone can tell me not to.

Stopping at a red light before you make a left turn. Or for that matter, how many " Yeild right of way " signs do you see in Thailand. That would appear to be giving ground to some other, which in the Thai way you don't have to do.

I am sure Thailand will find its way, but not soon, and how many will go to the happy hunting ground before a ' Yeild ' type of sign means something.

[Gonzo the Face]

Don't know why but it just popped into my head

......if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck..... well

I guess some people would put a portable tv on the dashboard to keep it from blowing away in the wind.....

I have to say lame excuse JJ0

You are right if it wasn't for the fact that you are wrong. It is not a excuse it is a observation. To be perfectly honest with you I have never seen one turned on in a car and I have ridden in cars with them.

You missed my point it is no worse than driving down hew street looking into other vehicles to see if they have a Television. Much less if it is on. I see you all ready assume it is.

I am in no way saying it is rite but I all so am not posting it on a forum talking only about Thai's I know it is going on in North America and it is just as wrong there as here.

As I said earlier careful

The big difference is when police see you doing the wrong in North America, you Will get a ticket..... here it is mainly ignored by the police, which is the topic of this thread.

I do agree with you that it is in the mindset of the Thai, that I can do anything, but laws are created for the benefit of a society not an individual. If its wrong in one place then it is wrong in another place as well. If traffic laws are created for the good of a group in one country, then I am sure it would not be out of place in another country or society.

Its correct, that in Thailand there is this 'free land 'syndrome, where I can do as I please, and noone can tell me not to.

Stopping at a red light before you make a left turn. Or for that matter, how many " Yeild right of way " signs do you see in Thailand. That would appear to be giving ground to some other, which in the Thai way you don't have to do.

I am sure Thailand will find its way, but not soon, and how many will go to the happy hunting ground before a ' Yeild ' type of sign means something.

adding on for just this minute, I look out my window and there is an ambulance in traffic, under redlights with its siren blaring and no cars will even try to make way...... Its the attitude.

[caf]

Don't know why but it just popped into my head

......if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck..... well

I guess some people would put a portable tv on the dashboard to keep it from blowing away in the wind.....

I have to say lame excuse JJ0

You are right if it wasn't for the fact that you are wrong. It is not a excuse it is a observation. To be perfectly honest with you I have never seen one turned on in a car and I have ridden in cars with them.

You missed my point it is no worse than driving down hew street looking into other vehicles to see if they have a Television. Much less if it is on. I see you all ready assume it is.

I am in no way saying it is rite but I all so am not posting it on a forum talking only about Thai's I know it is going on in North America and it is just as wrong there as here.

As I said earlier careful

The big difference is when police see you doing the wrong in North America, you Will get a ticket..... here it is mainly ignored by the police, which is the topic of this thread.

I do agree with you that it is in the mindset of the Thai, that I can do anything, but laws are created for the benefit of a society not an individual. If its wrong in one place then it is wrong in another place as well. If traffic laws are created for the good of a group in one country, then I am sure it would not be out of place in another country or society.

Its correct, that in Thailand there is this 'free land 'syndrome, where I can do as I please, and noone can tell me not to.

Stopping at a red light before you make a left turn. Or for that matter, how many " Yeild right of way " signs do you see in Thailand. That would appear to be giving ground to some other, which in the Thai way you don't have to do.

I am sure Thailand will find its way, but not soon, and how many will go to the happy hunting ground before a ' Yeild ' type of sign means something.

"If traffic laws are created for the good of a group in ONE country, then I am sure it would not be out of place in ANOTHER country or society."

That doesnt logically follow. As you said "Its correct, that in Thailand there is this 'free land 'syndrome, where I can do as I please, and noone can tell me not to. "

Laws of any kind are different in a hierarchical country and not evenly applied as evidenced here. Who you are is important here.

[jayjay0]

Don't know why but it just popped into my head

......if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, walks like a duck..... well

I guess some people would put a portable tv on the dashboard to keep it from blowing away in the wind.....

I have to say lame excuse JJ0

You are right if it wasn't for the fact that you are wrong. It is not a excuse it is a observation. To be perfectly honest with you I have never seen one turned on in a car and I have ridden in cars with them.

You missed my point it is no worse than driving down hew street looking into other vehicles to see if they have a Television. Much less if it is on. I see you all ready assume it is.

I am in no way saying it is rite but I all so am not posting it on a forum talking only about Thai's I know it is going on in North America and it is just as wrong there as here.

As I said earlier careful

The big difference is when police see you doing the wrong in North America, you Will get a ticket..... here it is mainly ignored by the police, which is the topic of this thread.

I do agree with you that it is in the mindset of the Thai, that I can do anything, but laws are created for the benefit of a society not an individual. If its wrong in one place then it is wrong in another place as well. If traffic laws are created for the good of a group in one country, then I am sure it would not be out of place in another country or society.

Its correct, that in Thailand there is this 'free land 'syndrome, where I can do as I please, and noone can tell me not to.

Stopping at a red light before you make a left turn. Or for that matter, how many " Yeild right of way " signs do you see in Thailand. That would appear to be giving ground to some other, which in the Thai way you don't have to do.

I am sure Thailand will find its way, but not soon, and how many will go to the happy hunting ground before a ' Yeild ' type of sign means something.

"If traffic laws are created for the good of a group in ONE country, then I am sure it would not be out of place in ANOTHER country or society."

That doesnt logically follow. As you said "Its correct, that in Thailand there is this 'free land 'syndrome, where I can do as I please, and noone can tell me not to. "

Laws of any kind are different in a hierarchical country and not evenly applied as evidenced here. Who you are is important here.

I think a lot of them would be out of place in another society. Take Thailand and North America for example. Number one they drive on different sides of the road and number two the big one Thailand has a high % of motor bikes and number three there is no comparison between the two infrastructures.

I have only driven in the western states and Canada and only in Arizona did I see the only way to make a left turn there (righrt turn here) was to make a u-turn and drive back to it. And even then it was not that often. Over there you can always go around the block. And one other point to consider is that the culture really does make a difference. For my self I refuse to denigrate the Thai culture it is just different if I don't like it I will leave. The last thing I want to do is degenerate into a malcontent. Or as my friends said turn cynical. I also would leave before that happens.

[caf]

I agree. I was making an observation. There is no denigration of Thais in my posts however hard you try and look

[Ulysses G.]

The last thing I want to do is degenerate into a malcontent. Or as my friends said turn cynical. I also would leave before that happens.

It's too bad that more expats on Thai Visa do not head this advice.

[ThaiWx]

The last thing I want to do is degenerate into a malcontent. Or as my friends said turn cynical. I also would leave before that happens.

It's too bad that more expats on Thai Visa do not head this advice.

Edited November 4, 2010 by ThaiWx

[haveaniceday]

I agree with Gonzo. If you hit and kill somebody or seriously injure them through no fault of your own you will pay...alot!

Yep, that is for sure