Story Telling

[JurgenG]

A colleague of us is very good at "putting things in perspective". He is in charge of writing all our reports to head quarter, especially when we mess up. Today we were talking about movies and how scenario nowadays are completely predictable within 5 mn of watching a movie, when he surprised us with a couple of ideas he had about making a movie. It was really original, we all agreed that he should try to contact someone in the movie industry. But here is the problem, we are all engineer without any idea who to contact.

When I read posts here, I'm sure a number of people here have stories to tell too. Where to start when you want to have your story published a way or an other ?

[Forethat]

Apparently, you didn't start it....

[JurgenG]

^ I haven't started telling the stories ?

Actually the plot is very original but very simple, or very simple but very original.

We are a bit afraid ( we know nothing about this business) to have our friend's ideas stolen and someone else getting all the credit.

[PhilHarries]

^ I haven't started telling the stories ?

Actually the plot is very original but very simple, or very simple but very original.

We are a bit afraid ( we know nothing about this business) to have our friend's ideas stolen and someone else getting all the credit.

You should be afraid of someone stealing the idea, Hollywood was built on intellectual, factual and historical theft.

I've no idea how you should proceed especially these days when films are either a version of a book, a remake or a animated film (what we, as kids, used to watch Saturday mornings but we called them cartoons those days).

Best you try and make contact with a literary writer sort of person.

[Forethat]

^ I haven't started telling the stories ?

Actually the plot is very original but very simple, or very simple but very original.

We are a bit afraid ( we know nothing about this business) to have our friend's ideas stolen and someone else getting all the credit.

Well, there's something called copyright. What you need to do is to register the copyright for script. There are hundreds of organisations doing nothing but protect auhors, musical writers and authors of movie scripts.

[Forethat]

^ I haven't started telling the stories ?

Actually the plot is very original but very simple, or very simple but very original.

We are a bit afraid ( we know nothing about this business) to have our friend's ideas stolen and someone else getting all the credit.

Well, there's something called copyright. What you need to do is to register the copyright for script. There are hundreds of organisations doing nothing but protect auhors, musical writers and authors of movie scripts.

One more thing:

If you get a snappy comment on one of your posts, it's pretty darned ugly to edit the post an try to make the whole thing go away.

You urged other posters to reveal and tell their stories, but that you've know removed from the original post. I take it you've now realised how bizarre that request was in relation to your own opinion that your own stories can be stolen...?

[JurgenG]

I think we have here a big misunderstanding Mr Forethat, I don't ask anybody to tell their story. I'm just looking for practical information on how to contact movie maker or book publisher because I think my colleague has a couple of brilliant ideas for a movie, probably not as good as Harry Potter but definitively better than 90% of the crap you can find in a video store. That's it !

[Loz]

You write what is called a "treatment", a synopsis of your idea. Then you contact a solicitor and post them a copy to protect your idea. Then you identify a literary agent for the genre of writing you are interested in. If they agree to meet, then you can pitch your idea (treatement) to them and if they are interested they may take an option on it for a retaining free. If they decide to proceed the details of the contract will be worked out in advance and you might want to have a little read on line about "agent stole my story" in google and see what the pitfalls and elephant traps are...

Good luck! Few things as satisfying as seeing your own work in print. But be warned, most option include the freedom to re-write your idea. So don't be suprised if they turn it into something unrecognisable. Just enjoy the money and put it towards a better contract negotiator for your next idea.

[Forethat]

I think we have here a big misunderstanding Mr Forethat, I don't ask anybody to tell their story.

Sure you did. And I'm glad that you've confirmed it (even though the confirmation came in form of a lie).

You wrote (if you want to I can check the cache on the laptop at home, then I't be black on black) that there must be loads of stories to be told by all TV members and you wanted to know who was to start!

First ask how to protect a good story from being stolen by others, and then ask others to tell theirs in the open? lol, if that ain't the cheekiest thing I've heard since the guy who took a crap in the neighbors postbox and then knocked on the door and asked for toilet paper. :jerk: :jerk: :jerk:

So instead of simply admitting the slight error in thinking you edited your post at 21:09 after I pointed out this amusing fact? A better opportunity to use the expression "caught with the hand in the cookie jar" I may never get, but I'll pass anyway.

:cheesy:

[Forethat]

You write what is called a "treatment", a synopsis of your idea. Then you contact a solicitor and post them a copy to protect your idea. Then you identify a literary agent for the genre of writing you are interested in. If they agree to meet, then you can pitch your idea (treatement) to them and if they are interested they may take an option on it for a retaining free. If they decide to proceed the details of the contract will be worked out in advance and you might want to have a little read on line about "agent stole my story" in google and see what the pitfalls and elephant traps are...

Good luck! Few things as satisfying as seeing your own work in print. But be warned, most option include the freedom to re-write your idea. So don't be suprised if they turn it into something unrecognisable. Just enjoy the money and put it towards a better contract negotiator for your next idea.

Actually, get a membership in the right screenwriters association and there's no need to pay a solicitors fee. But other than that I agree in full.

[canuck1941]

First of all, an "idea" cannot be copyrighted, only the expression of that idea.

Also, there's a very long road from an idea to a script, a screenplay, that someone in the industry would bother to read. Hollywood produces on average about 400 scripts a year; over 80,000 scripts are registered, not counting the ones that were never finished, or finished, were not good enough even to be registered, or copyrighted. It is an extremely competitive market and in fact a lucrative niche market has developed to assist wannabes to write a screenplay.

There is a procedure for writing a screenplay that is ignored at a writer's peril. You get the story set in your mind so that you can boil it down to one or two sentences, commonly called the log line. For example: A woman booby-traps herself to foil Aliens intent on harvesting her eggs while in the White House, America's first female president changes the course of history. So, would you go to a movie about that? Even more importantly, in your case, would they even bother to read a 80 to 120 page script with that log line?

After the log line, you write out the entire story in prose, usually called "The Treatment." Awhile ago in Hollywood, clever writers could sell treatments to which other writers would produce a screenplay. Anywhere from five double-spaced to 20 pages, written in present tense.

After the treatment, you prepare a "beat sheet", an outline of all the scenes it takes to tell your story, and it is here where the writer has to work out all the problems.

Then you follow the beat sheet and write the scenes. And rewrite, and rewrite, and rewrite, and rewrite. Maybe even spend some cash to get a script consultant to comment on it, about $300 to $5000, which seems like a lot, but if you were to spend $5000 on a script that, if it sells, can return hundreds of thousand of dollars, it seems like peanuts.

Remember, scripts are written, like plays, with only action and dialogue. Not so easy if you've only read prose before.

Actually, I think what you guys should do, is write a short story, a novella, or a novel that is compelling enough that Hollywood will come calling to buy the film rights, every prose writer's dream. And then sell that story. It's a long time line.

And on a personal note, sometimes I find I have, or think I have, an idea that I think everyone would appreciate, enough to fork over their money (and that's what it's all about at the end of the, admittedly long, day, for a book or a movie ticket. ) Sometimes I see someone else pick up a good idea and run with it. But I knew from the beginning that it wasn't a race I particularly wanted to run.

Anyway, chok dee and please feel free to PM me.

[JurgenG]

I think we have here a big misunderstanding Mr Forethat, I don't ask anybody to tell their story.

Sure you did. And I'm glad that you've confirmed it (even though the confirmation came in form of a lie).

You wrote (if you want to I can check the cache on the laptop at home, then I't be black on black) that there must be loads of stories to be told by all TV members and you wanted to know who was to start!

First ask how to protect a good story from being stolen by others, and then ask others to tell theirs in the open? lol, if that ain't the cheekiest thing I've heard since the guy who took a crap in the neighbors postbox and then knocked on the door and asked for toilet paper. :jerk: :jerk: :jerk:

So instead of simply admitting the slight error in thinking you edited your post at 21:09 after I pointed out this amusing fact? A better opportunity to use the expression "caught with the hand in the cookie jar" I may never get, but I'll pass anyway.

:cheesy:

If I ever write about a paranoid delusional character you may have a valid claim to be my source of inspiration

[Forethat]

If I ever write about a paranoid delusional character you may have a valid claim to be my source of inspiration

How is it one say.......oh yes it is something in the region of:

"when you're standing up to your neck in shit, dont flap your arms...!"

[JurgenG]

If I ever write about a paranoid delusional character you may have a valid claim to be my source of inspiration

How is it one say.......oh yes it is something in the region of:

"when you're standing up to your neck in shit, dont flap your arms...!"

You should be right, you obviously have more experience of this kind of situation than me

[IanForbes]

There is only a handful of real plots and there's a basic formula for most writing. Putting it together is the skill. The dollars are made by the people who know who to sell it to. The ones in the know have the connections.

[IanForbes]

First of all, an "idea" cannot be copyrighted, only the expression of that idea.

Also, there's a very long road from an idea to a script, a screenplay, that someone in the industry would bother to read. Hollywood produces on average about 400 scripts a year; over 80,000 scripts are registered, not counting the ones that were never finished, or finished, were not good enough even to be registered, or copyrighted. It is an extremely competitive market and in fact a lucrative niche market has developed to assist wannabes to write a screenplay.

...............................

Good post Canuck.

A dozen good writers could take a round the world trip together, and everyone write a non-fiction story about the same trip, and all the stories would SEEM to be entirely different. But, when broken down you would see the resemblance.

[JurgenG]

There is only a handful of real plots and there's a basic formula for most writing. Putting it together is the skill. The dollars are made by the people who know who to sell it to. The ones in the know have the connections.

What you mean is, basically, without the right connection, there is no hope for people with the smart ideas ?

[Forethat]

What you mean is, basically, without the right connection, there is no hope for people with the smart ideas ?

Well, at least not if the intent is to lie and decieve, but that's a general obeservation applicable to all situations, not just to people with no hope, manners or talent.

[JurgenG]

people with no hope, manners or talent.

That's the story of your life, we get it.

Move on, mate, move on.

[Loz]

out to be. Everyone on the inside was once on the outside. Is not like formula one where the doors really are bolted. If you have an interesting take on a good theme, someone will listen. Where many people run into trouble is when their idea does not resemble the final product or at least doesn't make the same message as intended. This is the woe of the artistic writer. The comercial writer can churn out pish for the dollars at an alarming rate. Nobody would put jackie collins in the same league as shakespear but she sold a lot of trashy novels with a single formula approach.

Depends on your motivation. If you are writing to sell, thats one thing. If you are writing to say something, be prepared to talk to yourself for a long time. And if you don't like what you hear, you can be pretty sure no fecker else will...

And asan aside, you two must have very robust handbags to be slinging them at eachother with such gay abandon. Seriously? No need.

[canuck1941]

There is only a handful of real plots and there's a basic formula for most writing. Putting it together is the skill. The dollars are made by the people who know who to sell it to. The ones in the know have the connections.

George Stolti wrote a book with the 36 basic plots outlined along with numerous variations. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just google him. Book free on line.

For storytelling, if you are serious about it, you might as well start with the first handbook on writing ever produced: Aristotle's Poetics, also available free on line. David Mamet(see at the very bottom of my signature) said the only two books a screenwriter needs are Aristotle's Poetics and Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces. The latter can sometimes be found in the used bookstores. (But a warning is in order: Campbell's book is of a kind that can change the way you think about everything in life.)

And for the most part, the ones in the know who have connections, live in Los Angeles, where according to reports, everyone has a script they want a producer to read. Ask a gardener at Spielbereg's place to give him a copy of your script, and he'll exchange it for his.

Remember, IF you have a good story to tell, it's a good story whether you produce it as prose, drama, graphic novel, manga, or puppet theatre.

I think one or all of you guys in JurgenC's group should write a prose story and forget about screenplays. You would have a better chance not only of getting someone to read your work, but pay you for it. Lots of very clever people in Hollywood could read your short story, for example, and offer you an option if they thought it was worth the two years minimum it would take to produce the movie. That's an easier call then spending anywhere from $70,000 to $1,000,000,000+ on a first script by an unknown, rather than buying the film rights to a book that was a best seller, or even a mediocre seller.

Writing is like hockey: coming out of the corner with the puck isn't as easy as it looks.

[IanForbes]

George Stolti wrote a book with the 36 basic plots outlined along with numerous variations. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just google him. Book free on line.

For storytelling, if you are serious about it, you might as well start with the first handbook on writing ever produced: Aristotle's Poetics, also available free on line. David Mamet(see at the very bottom of my signature) said the only two books a screenwriter needs are Aristotle's Poetics and Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces. The latter can sometimes be found in the used bookstores. (But a warning is in order: Campbell's book is of a kind that can change the way you think about everything in life.)

Thanks for mentioning Stolti. I couldn't remember his name. I've written thousands or newspaper columns and magazine articles, and a few fiction stories, and there is a basic formula that works. It is the same formula that works for most novels.

1. Have an idea of an ending BEFORE you even start writing.

2. Grab the audience's attention with something short and interesting right at the start.

3. Expand on the first part in either paragraphs or chapters.

4. Have some sort of crisis that must be worked through to create interest.

5. Work towards the ending to wrap it all up.

6. Don't add anything that doesn't have some bearing on the story. Lots of amateur writers are guilty of that.

[canuck1941]

George Stolti wrote a book with the 36 basic plots outlined along with numerous variations. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just google him. Book free on line.

For storytelling, if you are serious about it, you might as well start with the first handbook on writing ever produced: Aristotle's Poetics, also available free on line. David Mamet(see at the very bottom of my signature) said the only two books a screenwriter needs are Aristotle's Poetics and Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces. The latter can sometimes be found in the used bookstores. (But a warning is in order: Campbell's book is of a kind that can change the way you think about everything in life.)

Thanks for mentioning Stolti. I couldn't remember his name. I've written thousands or newspaper columns and magazine articles, and a few fiction stories, and there is a basic formula that works. It is the same formula that works for most novels.

1. Have an idea of an ending BEFORE you even start writing.

2. Grab the audience's attention with something short and interesting right at the start.

3. Expand on the first part in either paragraphs or chapters.

4. Have some sort of crisis that must be worked through to create interest.

5. Work towards the ending to wrap it all up.

6. Don't add anything that doesn't have some bearing on the story. Lots of amateur writers are guilty of that.

This is Joseph Campbell's Hero With a Thousand Faces boiled down to one paragraph, the Monomyth.

“A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder; fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.”

What this means is that there are three parts to the story--Separation, Initiation, Return. In his seminal work, Campbell goes into great detail of each phase of this tripartite structure. If one wants to write fiction, or structure non-fiction in the same way, it's hard to imagine doing that without reading his book many times. Each time you read it, you get more out of it.

[JurgenG]

Thank you guys for the invaluable advises.

We re going to do as you say, write a few pages to describe our ideas, then put a copy in an envelope and give it to a lawyer (we already do it for some new items we develop, not as good as a patent but much cheaper).

We still have two problems.

First we are not native english speakers. It should be ok for the beginning but if people like our ideas, can we find professional writers to translate our story in proper english ? Where ?

But the most important, where to send our first draft to have the best chances it will be read by a decision maker and not shelved indefinitely by some overworked clerk ?

[Loz]

David Mamet is as close to a God as it gets. His writing skill is off the hook!

The Heist is one of the best movies ever created and simply because the dialogue doesn't waste a single word. Everything said adds value. Hackman, Rockwell, Lindo would not get out of bed for a shitty script.

It took me a while to discover mamet but his signature is unmistakable. Even when they cast Tim Allen in Red Belt, He still made it work. Tim Allen was clearly (from the bonus material)thinking he could ad lib. Mamet clearly schooled him. He will never be forgotten and I can't wait for his next work.

If you haven't seen the heist, see it. Every word is golden.

"Why did the chicken cross the road? 'cos the road crossed the chicken!"

-Makes the world go round.

-What's that?

-Gold.

-Some people say love.

-They're right too. It is love. Love of gold.

This Swiss thing. If I was

a pubIisher, I'd pubIish the pIans.

Why don't you?

If I was a pubIisher. But I'm a thief

so I have to do that thing.

[boblunch]

Hire a ghost writer and write the script, then try to sell it to an agent or producer, etc....

[JurgenG]

And asan aside, you two must have very robust handbags to be slinging them at eachother with such gay abandon. Seriously? No need.

Do you mind translating this in "international" english ?

You like Sartre ? Do you recognize that ? :

Catherine Et pourquoi faire le mal ?

Goetz : Parce que le bien est déjà fait.

Catherine : Qui l'a fait ?

Goetz : Dieu le Père. Moi,j'invente. ...

Translation :

Catherine : Why are you evil ?

Goetz : Because someone else has already done the good

Catherine : Who ?

Goetz : God. Me, I try something new ...

[Loz]

yes i like his work among others. the translation is, stop fighting like girls. satre had some skills. more philosopher than mere author though.

[Robby nz]

I have a bit of an interest in this thread because I have already put together (mostly when I was Mai sabai and could do little else) a few short and one book length stories.

Have sent some to a few friends and been told they like them but dont really know if I should make any serious attempt to have them published, after all I only wrote them for myself.

But then again any bucks that came in from something like that would be useful.

I have had a little experience in the past with writing for magazines but that was just to advertise my business without having to pay.

From what little research I have done it looks like you pretty much have to pay someone to get anything published, not really interested in paying to gamble that what I have produced is better than all the other stuff that is submitted.

But if there was a way to get someone to either say it was worth publishing or 'take it home and hang it in the toilet'

Well I suppose everyone would like to see some sort of legacy of themselves left behind.

[JurgenG]

^^ Got it now

I won !