Setting Up Ponds For Farming Pla Nin

[ozzydom]

I am regularly contacted by members re setting up for farming Pla Nin, and as I will not be available for a time I am putting to type my methods ,these along with previous threads in this forum should answer most questions.I dont expect everybody to agree with my methods but through much trial and some error they work for me.

Anybody contemplating fish farming should learn all you can re the particular fishes biology and habits learn these and you are half way home.

Before you start digging a bloody big hole in the ground,check that the sub soil is capable of holding water and that you have a reliable water supply.

My figures are for the standard size I now build,this being 1 rai(1600sq met.)and able to carry a max water depth of 120cm in the centre out to 50cm at the edges with a slight slope to one end to aid final pumping and harvesting.

Slopes of the banks should be 5 to 1 ratio to help reduce erosion.

A pond such as this can usually be excavated by a big ford tractor and blade much cheaper and neater than an excavator,a tractor can operate up a 5 to 1 slope and spread its own fill.

If you are building adjacent ponds,make sure the margins are at least 5 metres wide as they erode to a degree in time and it is virtually impossible to renew the bund walls without building retaining walls.A wider area dividing the ponds can more easily be grassed and landscaped with fruit trees etc.

After filling the pond the first time ,the water will probably be muddy with suspended clay etc, dont just toss in your fry or fingerlings as soon as you have water,make sure the environment is ready to receive the fish.

I do this by priming the 1 rai pond initially with 12kg of triple super phosphate 0-45-0 and 6kg of Nitrogen 45-0-0

or alternatively 20 kg of 16-20-0 ,the triple super and urea is the most economical way as this is about 1000baht per 50kg bag giving 45%phosphate wheras Rabbit 16-20-0 at 680 baht a bag only provides 20% phosphate.

After about 10 days the water should start to clear and an algael bloom should become evidenton the surface, if it doesnt just give the pond a booster of 50%of the initial dose.

Dont worry if your pond becomes covered in green gunk ,it will die back and your water will turn a shade of green,Pla Nin love algae and it contains up to 50% protein.

What your are trying to achieve is green water where if you dip your arm in 2/3 rd of the way to your elbow and cock your wrist at right angles ,you should just be able to see the palm of your hand,this indicates a healthy population of micro-organisms and micro plankton which is Pla Nins primary natural food and very high in protein.

As phosphate levels drop, the water will become clearer ,indicating a booster shot of phosphate is required, to this end we add 5kg of 0-45-0 once a month.

My particular method of adding and distributing the fertiliser is to weigh out the dose int a 2foot x1.5 foot bag made from the fine blue netting commonly used here and hang it on a pole driven into the pond .I just direct the outlet stream from a 3 inch honda powered centrifigal pump at the bag and it dissolves slowly and spreads around the pond.

Pla Nin grown by this method do not need supplementary food to grow ,but we feed about 1.5 kg of fairly small 20% protein pellets per 1000 fish twice a day,this regiments the fish to come to you for food (handy when harvesting starts) and allows you to keep an eye on your fishes health and condition.

You can certainly grow your fish quicker than we do by feasting them up on copious amounts of high protein pellets ,but the profitability becomes marginal.

Our set up is geared to provide about 5000-6000kg via door sales and make fish available throughout the year. We are the only fish farm in an area of about 20 villages and this returns T/W about 1000 baht a day. (not me ,I,m only the unpaid fish hand)

Before jumping in and starting to dig that big hole in the ground ,always do a bit of market research,a heap of fish without a buyer is about as handy as a hole in the head.

If you keep your stocking rates to about 1000 fish/rai not many problems arise like dissolved oxy levels and disease

but for a 1 or 2 pond farm a 3inch honda centrifigal pump can be set up for aerating as well as pumping in and out.

We actually stock at double my recommended levels ,but I have fitted auto aeration to the ponds, this is better done retro ,after you learn more .

I got away with overstocking our first year and learnt a hard lesson when I tried it again,a big hole in the ground filled with 2 tonne of dead fish is a lesson I dont want any of you budding fish farmers to replicate. :jap:

[joka]

Thanks for the info, I hope to try this in the future but in containers.

[Gary A]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

[bergen]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

I have the same experience!

[sjefrie]

Don't you use lime before you fill up your pond with water ???

[ozzydom]

Don't you use lime before you fill up your pond with water ???

Not necessary in a new pond but dependant on your water source you may wish to adjust PH with lime,but Pla Nin are tolerant to a wide PH range and Klong and runoff water here is usually ok..

[jamescollister]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

I have the same experience!

Not stolen, just redistributed to the common masses. You clearly had more then you needed and had left them unattended, so had no further interest in them.

There clearly is a large mass of night roaming Thai tribes, following some ancient migration route through the hinterlands, grazing on fruit, eating unattended fish and poultry and on the odd occasions gorging themselves on cup rubber.

They are seldom seen and easily spooked, Richard Attenbourgh should do a documentary on them. Jim

[aussieruss]

Hi Jim did you come across there tracks one night while laying in wait as mentioned by Bergen in the post for meeting 5 you must have some black fella inya regards Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

[David48]

WOW ozzydom, I never knew this thread was in existence.

Thanks to joka who breathed life into after almost 18 months if I am reading correctly.

Sooooooooooooo many questions ...

But may I start with this one?

I note the small supplementary feeding, but after you have created the initial bloom and topped it up once as per your instructions, assuming a growth cycle of 9 months from our experience, does the bloom last that long as a primary feed source?

Have you done a cost analysis as it appears to achieve the golden rule of profit in Farming of keeping your input costs to a minimum?

OH .. now I understand why you never replied to my pm ...

PS and EDIT ... ozzydom ... may I link it from my thread so that people who read the Fish and Shrimp Farm Tread can be guided over to yours for a different methodology in Farming Fish ... I would be honoured ...

.

Edited July 24, 2012 by David48

[jamescollister]

Hi Jim did you come across there tracks one night while laying in wait as mentioned by Bergen in the post for meeting 5 you must have some black fella inya regards Russell

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Thaivisa Connect App

No just good Celtic Nordic, blood, but have taken to jungle sleeping a few times. they are out there.Jim

[bergen]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

I have the same experience!

Not stolen, just redistributed to the common masses. You clearly had more then you needed and had left them unattended, so had no further interest in them.

There clearly is a large mass of night roaming Thai tribes, following some ancient migration route through the hinterlands, grazing on fruit, eating unattended fish and poultry and on the odd occasions gorging themselves on cup rubber.

They are seldom seen and easily spooked, Richard Attenbourgh should do a documentary on them. Jim

We experience fewer these days since our dogs are on guard.................

[jamescollister]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

I have the same experience!

Not stolen, just redistributed to the common masses. You clearly had more then you needed and had left them unattended, so had no further interest in them.

There clearly is a large mass of night roaming Thai tribes, following some ancient migration route through the hinterlands, grazing on fruit, eating unattended fish and poultry and on the odd occasions gorging themselves on cup rubber.

They are seldom seen and easily spooked, Richard Attenbourgh should do a documentary on them. Jim

We experience fewer these days since our dogs are on guard.................

Yes have to say dogs are an excellent deterrent to the grazing tribes. Only problem is after having put in CCTV and sensor lights at one location. The FIL seeing the lights coming on and off got spooked and went out and shoot the dog. Jim

[ozzydom]

WOW ozzydom, I never knew this thread was in existence.

Thanks to joka who breathed life into after almost 18 months if I am reading correctly.

Sooooooooooooo many questions ...

But may I start with this one?

I note the small supplementary feeding, but after you have created the initial bloom and topped it up once as per your instructions, assuming a growth cycle of 9 months from our experience, does the bloom last that long as a primary feed source?

Have you done a cost analysis as it appears to achieve the golden rule of profit in Farming of keeping your input costs to a minimum?

OH .. now I understand why you never replied to my pm ...

PS and EDIT ... ozzydom ... may I link it from my thread so that people who read the Fish and Shrimp Farm Tread can be guided over to yours for a different methodology in Farming Fish ... I would be honoured ...

.

Go for your life mate, I did not ignore your PM,its just that up here in the never nevers my internet connection is spasmodic at best and non existant when it rains ,sometimes for days on end,and your PM coincided with one of those periods ,then I just plain forgot it ,sorry mate.

To your question,

The average maintenance dose of Phosphate is about 5kg per month (for maintenance dosing I use 16.20 .0 as its cheaper at about 16 baht/kg.)

But this is not a set in stone formula as ,if rains dilute your ponds water you may need a little more or more often.

The surface algael bloom rises and falls for about 2 weeks , it dissapates in the evening but comes again in sunlight, but the effects of the phosphate on promoting micro-organism and phytoplankton population is ongoing.

Water color and clarity are the factors in determining the health of the ponds water and experience goes a long way in this determination, I would add that to much is better than to little as we have never had problems from overdosing.

The nearest I can describe the pond color to look for is a slightly lighter shade of British Racing Green.

From consumer reports the fish from our green water ponds is firmer and oilier in the flesh than fish fed primarily on full commercial feed diets , this seems to suit the local cooking method of skin and scale on grilling.

[ozzydom]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

I have the same experience!

Not stolen, just redistributed to the common masses. You clearly had more then you needed and had left them unattended, so had no further interest in them.

There clearly is a large mass of night roaming Thai tribes, following some ancient migration route through the hinterlands, grazing on fruit, eating unattended fish and poultry and on the odd occasions gorging themselves on cup rubber.

They are seldom seen and easily spooked, Richard Attenbourgh should do a documentary on them. Jim

Great description jim,

We seem to suffer less poaching nowadays but I am sure that it will rear its head again at some stage.

We now have our duck and geese enclosure right along the most easily accessed entry to the ponds ,plus night lights every 30 metres around the perimeters, as well the 1000watt floodlights are timed to come on for 5 minutes every 2 or 3 hours,(we alter the timing every few days).

Coupled with the T/W spreading the word that that we have a 12g and that I now sleep in the pond bungalow where the TV is left on all night.

Sounds drastic measures but when you consider that 3 fish is equal to a days wages for a Thai the temptation is always there.

Selling mainly to locals allows us to extend credit when required and giving freebies to needy families helps remove the necessity to steal from us.

[Gary A]

We have a small weekend house built overlooking the pond. My wife hired her nephew to sleep there once in a while. He brought his trusty muzzle loading rifle with him.

I had one favorite BIG fish that used to be the first one to attack the fish pellets. I didn't see the big one after her nephew started guarding the fish pond. As it turned out the nephew was using the rifle to shoot the fish.

[jamescollister]

You have just got to love the place. Have about 20 or so banana trees on one plantation. No one lives any where near the place, tappers there most of the night and I ride up every few days. Never seen a soul there yet, 6 years and we have never had one banana. Ghosts in the night or very smart monkeys. Jim

[David48]

... may I link it from my thread ...

Go for your life mate ...

Thanks, and the link is here

[David006]

I would only add that the pond needs to be watched over or all the fish will be quickly stolen. I learned the hard way.

I have the same experience!

Not stolen, just redistributed to the common masses. You clearly had more then you needed and had left them unattended, so had no further interest in them.

There clearly is a large mass of night roaming Thai tribes, following some ancient migration route through the hinterlands, grazing on fruit, eating unattended fish and poultry and on the odd occasions gorging themselves on cup rubber.

They are seldom seen and easily spooked, Richard Attenbourgh should do a documentary on them. Jim

Lord Richard is what 88?...

The tribes more recently seem to enjoy grazing on potted orchids, wild copper vines, well pumps,brush cutters,buckets,chemicals,fertiliser and even trollies too..must be evolution .. ...Jim....lol

d

[Jotham79]

What size/age are the fry you stock? Would it hurt to raise them in nets until they are 2-3" long and then release?

[ozzydom]

What size/age are the fry you stock? Would it hurt to raise them in nets until they are 2-3" long and then release?

Hi J79 ,we buy standard size fry, it certainly is an advantage to raise them to fingerling size (2"-3" ) as there is better control over feeding in their infant size.

The problem with nets (hapas) is that the fine mesh blocks easily and they require almost weekly scrubbing,a constant aeration supply is needed as well.

A 4m x 4m x 1m hapa will handle 5000 fry but as they grow they need to be sub-divided into more nets so that at 3 inch you have 5 x 1000 fingerling groups..at this stage they can be placed on the smallest high protein pellets for a week prior to release.

Because we have multiple ponds I changed our system 2 years ago and fenced off (with fine mesh) an 80 sq met section of a pond as a nursery and buy all our seasons requirements in one go,they just go on growing at will until each successive pond is ready to restock, then we just net about 2000 each time and transfer them to their new home.

By the time we get to the last pond the fingerlings are up to 4 inch(maybe more) so growout time is reduced.

It sure beats net scrubbing which is a tedious job up to your waist in the pond, this year I will change the mesh fencing to a slightly larger knitted mesh which should allow better water transfer.

[joka]

How much do fingerlings cost?

I read somewhere in an aquaponics forum that you can take the pla nin and put them in a 10% salt tank for a week or two before eating or marketing them. This will remove a lot of the muddiness in the meat.

[ozzydom]

How much do fingerlings cost?

I read somewhere in an aquaponics forum that you can take the pla nin and put them in a 10% salt tank for a week or two before eating or marketing them. This will remove a lot of the muddiness in the meat.

Fingerlings prices vary with the size but monosex fry are 35 satang each(350 baht/1000.

A week or two in 10% saltwater would give you pickled fish as ocean water is only 3.5% salt content

Unless you mean water that is 10% the salt content of seawater which Pla Nin could handle quite well.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ozzydom

[pigeonjake]

im not a fish farmer far from it, but i did have one done behind our pig stys,, so the wash water goes in there, i bought some red talapia, and they grow like hell, and breed, we dont sell any just for us and the family,

the top of the water is half coverd with pat bung which i give to the pigs, and when i hae to much i take off and it goes onto the manure heap,

but like i say our fish grow well, and most of the time it is a light green colour,

i dont understand it ozzydom like you do, but we like the fish and so do the family,,

good luck to all that try fish farming,,

jake

[ozzydom]

im not a fish farmer far from it, but i did have one done behind our pig stys,, so the wash water goes in there, i bought some red talapia, and they grow like hell, and breed, we dont sell any just for us and the family,

the top of the water is half coverd with pat bung which i give to the pigs, and when i hae to much i take off and it goes onto the manure heap,

but like i say our fish grow well, and most of the time it is a light green colour,

i dont understand it ozzydom like you do, but we like the fish and so do the family,,

good luck to all that try fish farming,,

jake

Jake,it seems like you have the happy medium in your pond, pat bung will be taking up a lot of the excess Nitrogen resulting from the pig sty wash.

I agree with you re the quality of Pla Nin and Pla Tab Tim from these environments, funny enough they dont seem to take on muddiness or off tastes as other freshwater species do, in my state of origin, freshwater species like trout ,eels, tench , perch, even the giant freshwater crayfish need to be swum in clean water for a few days prior to consumption to flush the muddiness and off tastes from their systems.

[pigeonjake]

thanks for reply,

the pat bung grows like mad, when i had the builders in, the lady with them said can i have some, yes help yourself,,lol, it grows ever so quick, so like you say it is feeding well,

im also going to luck at getting some duckweed like IA says, ive been reading about that and the protine levels of it, might as well make use of the pond in more ways then one,

jake

[ozzydom]

Watched a disturbing doco on Australianetwork the other night regarding the work of a Canadian company into the GE (genetic modification) of Salmon and Tilapia.

They have successfully engineered salmon which grow at 300-400% faster than normal and Tilapia that grow 100% faster ( 1kg fish in 3-4 months).

The problem is that both engineered species are fertile, in the case of the super salmon ,it is feared that when they escape they will breed with native salmon and eventually wlpe out existing species, as it is not yet known what are the health ramifications of long term consumption of GE fish it is a bit of a lottery.

In the case of the Nile Tilapia ,it has been found that the GE type have the ability to live and breed in the ocean environment, imagine what effect "breed like blowflies" Tilapia would have on native ocean species.

The scary part is that the doco states that Thailand is prepared to take the GE Tilapia without waiting for world authorities to give the green light to the new species.

They did not say whether it was the Thai Govt or individual players in the industry who were prepared to shortcut the system.

An interesting side note is that T/W and I talked to a chap delivering live Tilapia to our local market resellers recently ,the fish came from the Mekong cage farms and were 1-1.5 kg monsters prompting me to ask "how long to grow fish to this size"?the reply was 4 MONTHS,

So you can imagine that my thoughts on seeing that doco.

[David48]

I tried to grab it here in Australia but without success.

Do I assume it was called 'Monster Salmon and Butterflies'

http://australianetwork.com/guide/ep_00182553.htm

I got this as the Video ... but it won't play (in Australia)

[ozzydom]

I tried to grab it here in Australia but without success.

Do I assume it was called 'Monster Salmon and Butterflies'

http://australianetw...ep_00182553.htm

I got this as the Video ... but it won't play (in Australia)

Thats the one David , evidentally the D&A from a butterfly was used in the genetic engineering of the fish.

[ray23]

Dom got an interesting one the small pond is making it;s own alage and I mean a lot of it. I'm filtering now chaniging the filter daily adn I can;t keep up with it. I have added nothing to the pond. Is it a problem if you have to much in a pond. Fish seem to be OK. But, they won't eat the fish food.

Do I have a problem or not ?

We sold off some meduim size ones,to reduce the numbers, its down abou 10% now, still got 60 baht a Kilo better then a sharp stick

[Mosha]

Pla Nin good fun on light fishing tackle. Fight just like Perch or Red Fin as our Aussie friends call them.