US Captors Of Alleged Arms Dealer Viktor Bout Detail Thailand Sting

[Ulysses G.]

Amazing how the anti americans have hijacked this thread with the yank this and yank that. What about one nasty profiteer that did not care where his arms and munitions landed, whether a landmine to mame a child on his way to school or explosives to muslim terrorists.

I am glad that he is off the street and the message to these peddlers is that they are not above the law.

Convicted and ready for a life behind bars.

No real need for a trial.

And you wonder why some are anti yank.

I guess that Bin Ladin is innocent of anything until convicted too. Some things are rather obvious.

[kuffki]

Every time this topic comes up people get too busy bashing and defending countries. Lets consider the actual man and what is guilty or not guilty of.

For starters, lets consider, that for any Russian to have enough money to buy an airplane is little hard thing to do, especially back when he started.

For any Russian or anyone for that matter, straight out of the army to have enough money to start such a company in a foreign country is almost impossible and/or very very hard.

For someone to expand with the speed with which he did without financial banking is also pretty impossible.

Now that raises a question, how did such a young man get into such a business and where did he get the money to start it, this was not exactly a corner shop selling lolly pops.

Cargo business requires a large capital to start with and good connections and knowledge of the local market.

There is a very very high chance of him being involved in some illegal business, there is no doubt in my mind that he was into many many dodgy things in Russia as well as Africa.

He sold or transported the weapons for someone else is another matter, but no doubt he did do either one.

Now it is up to the court, witnesses and DEA to prove what exactly he is guilty of.

As someone mentioned in the earlier posts, if he was a threat to Russian Government or FSB, he would of already had an accident, saying that-it is still a possibility as in USA it is much easier for Russians to reach him.

So rather then country bashing, i personally would prefer to wait and see what evidence and provided and what he would be found guilty of.

[mark45y]

Every time this topic comes up people get too busy bashing and defending countries. Lets consider the actual man and what is guilty or not guilty of.

For starters, lets consider, that for any Russian to have enough money to buy an airplane is little hard thing to do, especially back when he started.

For any Russian or anyone for that matter, straight out of the army to have enough money to start such a company in a foreign country is almost impossible and/or very very hard.

For someone to expand with the speed with which he did without financial banking is also pretty impossible.

Now that raises a question, how did such a young man get into such a business and where did he get the money to start it, this was not exactly a corner shop selling lolly pops.

Cargo business requires a large capital to start with and good connections and knowledge of the local market.

There is a very very high chance of him being involved in some illegal business, there is no doubt in my mind that he was into many many dodgy things in Russia as well as Africa.

He sold or transported the weapons for someone else is another matter, but no doubt he did do either one.

Now it is up to the court, witnesses and DEA to prove what exactly he is guilty of.

As someone mentioned in the earlier posts, if he was a threat to Russian Government or FSB, he would of already had an accident, saying that-it is still a possibility as in USA it is much easier for Russians to reach him.

So rather then country bashing, i personally would prefer to wait and see what evidence and provided and what he would be found guilty of.

Do you really not know what this guy did? My god man it is all over the net and has been for years. Or didn't you read the thread before you posted. Interpol was after him. The British special forces tried to arrest him in Greece. Belgium had an arrest warrant out on him. Try google. Many histories of the man and how he got where he is today.

[gemini81]

Well if that is the "full story" why then waste time on a trial?

Whats wrong with you yankees? Read a interview in a biased newspaper, see the movie and all of a sudden you know everything!

Tiger

We've known about him for quite some time! When on Earth have you been? Guy has a reputation that precedes him by light years, bro.

[kuffki]

Every time this topic comes up people get too busy bashing and defending countries. Lets consider the actual man and what is guilty or not guilty of.

For starters, lets consider, that for any Russian to have enough money to buy an airplane is little hard thing to do, especially back when he started.

For any Russian or anyone for that matter, straight out of the army to have enough money to start such a company in a foreign country is almost impossible and/or very very hard.

For someone to expand with the speed with which he did without financial banking is also pretty impossible.

Now that raises a question, how did such a young man get into such a business and where did he get the money to start it, this was not exactly a corner shop selling lolly pops.

Cargo business requires a large capital to start with and good connections and knowledge of the local market.

There is a very very high chance of him being involved in some illegal business, there is no doubt in my mind that he was into many many dodgy things in Russia as well as Africa.

He sold or transported the weapons for someone else is another matter, but no doubt he did do either one.

Now it is up to the court, witnesses and DEA to prove what exactly he is guilty of.

As someone mentioned in the earlier posts, if he was a threat to Russian Government or FSB, he would of already had an accident, saying that-it is still a possibility as in USA it is much easier for Russians to reach him.

So rather then country bashing, i personally would prefer to wait and see what evidence and provided and what he would be found guilty of.

Do you really not know what this guy did? My god man it is all over the net and has been for years. Or didn't you read the thread before you posted. Interpol was after him. The British special forces tried to arrest him in Greece. Belgium had an arrest warrant out on him. Try google. Many histories of the man and how he got where he is today.

Once he is convicted and evidence of what he is guilty of is out and proven to be true by independent witnesses, only then you can pick up the sword and start to wave it, until then, neither you, or me or anyone one else for that matter besides him himself do not know anything but speculate

[gemini81]

Amazing how the anti americans have hijacked this thread with the yank this and yank that. What about one nasty profiteer that did not care where his arms and munitions landed, whether a landmine to mame a child on his way to school or explosives to muslim terrorists.

I am glad that he is off the street and the message to these peddlers is that they are not above the law.

Convicted and ready for a life behind bars.

No real need for a trial.

And you wonder why some are anti yank.

He'll get a trial. Even OJ got one.

Lets fill in the blanks for you: they have the evidence on tape. he's been chased by many countries and interpol alike. Does that help you fill in the blanks?

Thanks for the useless cheap shots and stereotypes of nationalities, I'm sure it'll come back at you.

[mark45y]

Every time this topic comes up people get too busy bashing and defending countries. Lets consider the actual man and what is guilty or not guilty of.

For starters, lets consider, that for any Russian to have enough money to buy an airplane is little hard thing to do, especially back when he started.

For any Russian or anyone for that matter, straight out of the army to have enough money to start such a company in a foreign country is almost impossible and/or very very hard.

For someone to expand with the speed with which he did without financial banking is also pretty impossible.

Now that raises a question, how did such a young man get into such a business and where did he get the money to start it, this was not exactly a corner shop selling lolly pops.

Cargo business requires a large capital to start with and good connections and knowledge of the local market.

There is a very very high chance of him being involved in some illegal business, there is no doubt in my mind that he was into many many dodgy things in Russia as well as Africa.

He sold or transported the weapons for someone else is another matter, but no doubt he did do either one.

Now it is up to the court, witnesses and DEA to prove what exactly he is guilty of.

As someone mentioned in the earlier posts, if he was a threat to Russian Government or FSB, he would of already had an accident, saying that-it is still a possibility as in USA it is much easier for Russians to reach him.

So rather then country bashing, i personally would prefer to wait and see what evidence and provided and what he would be found guilty of.

Do you really not know what this guy did? My god man it is all over the net and has been for years. Or didn't you read the thread before you posted. Interpol was after him. The British special forces tried to arrest him in Greece. Belgium had an arrest warrant out on him. Try google. Many histories of the man and how he got where he is today.

Once he is convicted and evidence of what he is guilty of is out and proven to be true by independent witnesses, only then you can pick up the sword and start to wave it, until then, neither you, or me or anyone one else for that matter besides him himself do not know anything but speculate

Thousands of articles in newspapers have been written. A number of books have been written and even a movie made about the guy.

There are pro's and con's to the issue. It all started in 1992 when a charity organization was exposed for running weapons into Bosnia.

That was 18 years ago.

Don't you have an opinion? Little will come out in a trial about the man as he will only be convicted of a small number of his crimes that they can prove in court.

I am not saying to convict the guy without a trial but your post seems to be pro Victor. Do you think he is a nice guy who just worked hard to get all that money? Or do you think he is an international drug smuggler and gun runner?

Do you think Interpol, the UK and the US and Belgium are all lying?

Do you think they made a mistake arresting him in Thailand?

[kuffki]

Every time this topic comes up people get too busy bashing and defending countries. Lets consider the actual man and what is guilty or not guilty of.

For starters, lets consider, that for any Russian to have enough money to buy an airplane is little hard thing to do, especially back when he started.

For any Russian or anyone for that matter, straight out of the army to have enough money to start such a company in a foreign country is almost impossible and/or very very hard.

For someone to expand with the speed with which he did without financial banking is also pretty impossible.

Now that raises a question, how did such a young man get into such a business and where did he get the money to start it, this was not exactly a corner shop selling lolly pops.

Cargo business requires a large capital to start with and good connections and knowledge of the local market.

There is a very very high chance of him being involved in some illegal business, there is no doubt in my mind that he was into many many dodgy things in Russia as well as Africa.

He sold or transported the weapons for someone else is another matter, but no doubt he did do either one.

Now it is up to the court, witnesses and DEA to prove what exactly he is guilty of.

As someone mentioned in the earlier posts, if he was a threat to Russian Government or FSB, he would of already had an accident, saying that-it is still a possibility as in USA it is much easier for Russians to reach him.

So rather then country bashing, i personally would prefer to wait and see what evidence and provided and what he would be found guilty of.

Do you really not know what this guy did? My god man it is all over the net and has been for years. Or didn't you read the thread before you posted. Interpol was after him. The British special forces tried to arrest him in Greece. Belgium had an arrest warrant out on him. Try google. Many histories of the man and how he got where he is today.

Once he is convicted and evidence of what he is guilty of is out and proven to be true by independent witnesses, only then you can pick up the sword and start to wave it, until then, neither you, or me or anyone one else for that matter besides him himself do not know anything but speculate

Thousands of articles in newspapers have been written. A number of books have been written and even a movie made about the guy.

There are pro's and con's to the issue. It all started in 1992 when a charity organization was exposed for running weapons into Bosnia.

That was 18 years ago.

Don't you have an opinion? Little will come out in a trial about the man as he will only be convicted of a small number of his crimes that they can prove in court.

I am not saying to convict the guy without a trial but your post seems to be pro Victor. Do you think he is a nice guy who just worked hard to get all that money? Or do you think he is an international drug smuggler and gun runner?

Do you think Interpol, the UK and the US and Belgium are all lying?

Do you think they made a mistake arresting him in Thailand?

Firstly i suggest you re-read my post again.

i clearly stated that there is no doubt in my mind that he is guilty of something and was involved in something, HOWEVER what exactly he is guilty of or what exactly he has been involved in is a speculation until proven otherwise.

Once all the evidence is presented and independent witnesses can concur to whatever they know, only then we will know what is the truth and what is fabrication.

Have you never heard legal terms "innocent until proven guilty"? or are you a believer of the opposite guilty until proven innocent?

Just because papers printed something or because UK or Belgian Interpol found something it does not prove be the all facts.

Again read my original post, YES he is guilty of something, but what exactly is another matter, personally i will wait before i start to pass on any judgements.

[mark45y]

So what do you think about Victor Bout?

Edited November 19, 2010 by sbk
off topic quotes removed

[sbk]

Lots of off topic posts that have no relevance to the topic at hand have been removed. don't post it again.

[Gers1873]

anti-personnel mines

Is that loud enough for some people? To date, all of the protests have railed about the evil Americans, the abrogation of Mr. Bout's personal liberties, the intrusions of the state into commercial enterprise, etc. and now the full story is coming out. And best of all it is transcribed and recorded for the whole world to see.

Columbia is a signatory of the landmine treaty. As such, any sale of landmines for use in Columbia would be a clear contravention of the applicable law. It would also be a violation of Columbian sovereignty. Where are all the bleaters now?

And just so the whiners don't have any reason to chime up with their usual , but the USA wah, wah, wah chant,, please note that according to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines, the U.S. has not used anti-personnel mines since 1991, has had an export ban in place since 1992 and has not produced them since 1997. It is also the world's largest individual contributor for mine action and victim assistance programmes. Seems to me, the USA acted to prevent a sales agent of landmines from continuing to distribute these items.

I'd like to see Mr. Bout explain to a room filled with limbless children why it was ok to sell landmines.

Ah, the U.S. governments B.S. interrogation techniques? Why not water board Mr. V. Bout, it works and it's "highly controversial"

He was involved in a Sting operation drawn up and conducted by DEA who are well none to fabricate stories, only my grandmother could tell from her lazy boy chair in the living room.

As far as dangerous. Who is more dangerous? U.S. government and their shock troops in Middle East, Russian Special Forces, Israeli Special Forces. U.S. government basically had another player in this vast game removed so other could profit.

Victor was selling weapons to the FARC. The other FARC weapons supplier is Venezuela. Do you really think the US wants Venezuela to profit?

And the people training and arming FARC were the scum of the IRA...

[gorillagrower]

anti-personnel mines

Is that loud enough for some people? To date, all of the protests have railed about the evil Americans, the abrogation of Mr. Bout's personal liberties, the intrusions of the state into commercial enterprise, etc. and now the full story is coming out. And best of all it is transcribed and recorded for the whole world to see.

Columbia is a signatory of the landmine treaty. As such, any sale of landmines for use in Columbia would be a clear contravention of the applicable law. It would also be a violation of Columbian sovereignty. Where are all the bleaters now?

And just so the whiners don't have any reason to chime up with their usual , but the USA wah, wah, wah chant,, please note that according to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines, the U.S. has not used anti-personnel mines since 1991, has had an export ban in place since 1992 and has not produced them since 1997. It is also the world's largest individual contributor for mine action and victim assistance programmes. Seems to me, the USA acted to prevent a sales agent of landmines from continuing to distribute these items.

I'd like to see Mr. Bout explain to a room filled with limbless children why it was ok to sell landmines.

He is charged with conspiracy to kill US nationals and government officers, conspiracy to use an anti-aircraft missile and conspiracy to provide material support or resources to a designated foreign terrorist organisation.No landmines were ever sold in Columbia by Mr Bout, so what is your point? Are you seriously advocating a Precrime global Law systerm for the DEA, whilst roaming around using entrapment to gather their targets?

[MengWan]

PS-If Mr. Bout were as innocent as some proclaim, why would he have shown any interest in meeting FARC rebels with the express purpose of selling them weapons to kill people?

As every "suspect" in US "Justice", he is guilty until he is (eventually) allowed to prove his innocence !

[kuffki]

So what do you think about Victor Bout?

If your question is at me, then you need to be little more specific.

What do i think about him as a person? or what do i think about him as a businessman? or what do i think about his business? or what do i think about his guilt?

[Tolley]

This guy may well be guilty i have no idea.

What i do know is that he wouldn't be able to deal in arms if countries like the US, Britain , Russia. China weren't manufacturing these weapons.

Secondly as far as the US is concerned they have sold arms to all sorts of crooked regimes around the world and many innocemt people have died as a result.

[craigt3365]

This guy may well be guilty i have no idea.

What i do know is that he wouldn't be able to deal in arms if countries like the US, Britain , Russia. China weren't manufacturing these weapons.

Secondly as far as the US is concerned they have sold arms to all sorts of crooked regimes around the world and many innocemt people have died as a result.

Too much info out there for him to even be considered innocent. A trial is needed, but too much info to prove otherwise....from a variety of sources.

Agreed that too many countries are producing too many weapons. It's really sad and lot's of innocent people get killed due to it. But, it's the world we live in. Crazy people in Sudan want weapons to kill others, so suppliers step in to make money.

I liked the previous post stating if you added up the Euro Zone manufacturers of weapons, they would be bigger than the US. It is the Euro Zone, right? So should be grouped together. Wow...the evil Euro Zone. I like the ring to that. And if you think they don't sell weapons to "all sorts of crooked regimes around the world and many innocemt people have died as a result", then you had better do some research....because they do.

PARIS, Nov. 4— A political scandal involving the illegal sale of artillery shells to Iran deepened today as a Paris daily published the full text of a secret Defense Ministry report that directly implicated President Francois Mitterrand.

Just one of many articles I found in a 1 minute search on the web...

[mark45y]

This guy may well be guilty i have no idea.

What i do know is that he wouldn't be able to deal in arms if countries like the US, Britain , Russia. China weren't manufacturing these weapons.

Secondly as far as the US is concerned they have sold arms to all sorts of crooked regimes around the world and many innocemt people have died as a result.

Who makes this weapon system?

Edited November 20, 2010 by mark45y

[sirchai]

It's funny how no matter what the US does, no matter how many they kill, no matter whom they arm and years later end up making an enemy, they are always above persecution.

I can already hear the death to ChiangMaiThai chants from the USA patriots here, but if you calm down for a moment and think about it, the rhetotic coming from the DEA and CIA 'most dangerous man on earth' etc etc. it is beyond ironic and beyond hypocritical. Somehow that badge and that authority that comes with (US) government office makes everything you do okay.

I agree.

Suggest a read through this (especially the second rankings chart): Who is the world's biggest arms dealer?

"Viktor Bout, in my eyes, is one of the most dangerous men on the face of the earth," added Braun, the former chief of operations for the DEA, which pursued Bout because of his alleged links to drug traffickers.

No need to think about it. Guess we all know who's the biggest arms dealer......

[sbk]

KEEP IT ON TOPIC!

posts have been deleted yet again. next one gets a suspension.

[MengWan]

they have the evidence on tape

I'm not sure it's a tape, for sure it is a film ...

Hollywood has all the "evidence", this guy is the last bad guy from the "axis of evil" ...

And then, there can be no discussion, Fox News has branded him !

[mark45y]

It's funny how no matter what the US does, no matter how many they kill, no matter whom they arm and years later end up making an enemy, they are always above persecution.

I can already hear the death to ChiangMaiThai chants from the USA patriots here, but if you calm down for a moment and think about it, the rhetotic coming from the DEA and CIA 'most dangerous man on earth' etc etc. it is beyond ironic and beyond hypocritical. Somehow that badge and that authority that comes with (US) government office makes everything you do okay.

I agree.

Suggest a read through this (especially the second rankings chart): Who is the world's biggest arms dealer?

"Viktor Bout, in my eyes, is one of the most dangerous men on the face of the earth," added Braun, the former chief of operations for the DEA, which pursued Bout because of his alleged links to drug traffickers.

No need to think about it. Guess we all know who's the biggest arms dealer......

Johnson and Johnson is the worlds largest drug manufacturer. What does that have to do with a scumbag pushing morphine on the street?

The US is the largest manufacturer of weapons. What does that have to do with Victor Bout selling weapons in violation of UN or other embargoes?

Edited November 20, 2010 by mark45y

[cdnvic]

The subject is the operation that resulted in Viktor Bout's arrest, not American or French arms trading. O/T posts deleted.

[mark45y]

Five thousand AK-47s, anti-personnel mines, fragmentation grenades, armor-piercing rockets.

That is what the sting was about. The US does not make AK-47's or anti personnel mines.

Fragmentation grenades are manufactured by Thales of Australia among others. Armor piercing rockets? The Swedes make a good one.

Victor would buy from anyone and sell to anyone. I would imagine if you wanted a AICW system he could have found you one.

Victor was an illegal arms dealer. I think illegal is the key word rather than who manufactures the weapons.

[kuffki]

Five thousand AK-47s, anti-personnel mines, fragmentation grenades, armor-piercing rockets.

That is what the sting was about. The US does not make AK-47's or anti personnel mines.

Fragmentation grenades are manufactured by Thales of Australia among others. Armor piercing rockets? The Swedes make a good one.

Victor would buy from anyone and sell to anyone. I would imagine if you wanted a AICW system he could have found you one.

Victor was an illegal arms dealer. I think illegal is the key word rather than who manufactures the weapons.

But as per your logic, all those manufactures sold the weapons to him knowing what he was, so would not they be also guilty then????

if anything, he was a middle man for those where officials from manufactures or countries could not make any deals.

Illegal or convenient??? depends who is looking and who is a loser and winner.

[mark45y]

Five thousand AK-47s, anti-personnel mines, fragmentation grenades, armor-piercing rockets.

That is what the sting was about. The US does not make AK-47's or anti personnel mines.

Fragmentation grenades are manufactured by Thales of Australia among others. Armor piercing rockets? The Swedes make a good one.

Victor would buy from anyone and sell to anyone. I would imagine if you wanted a AICW system he could have found you one.

Victor was an illegal arms dealer. I think illegal is the key word rather than who manufactures the weapons.

But as per your logic, all those manufactures sold the weapons to him knowing what he was, so would not they be also guilty then????

if anything, he was a middle man for those where officials from manufactures or countries could not make any deals.

Illegal or convenient??? depends who is looking and who is a loser and winner.

I was in a war. I didn't like the weapons the army gave me. I bought my own. The manufacturer never knew who the end user would be. I bought a machine gun, grenades, grenade launcher, pistol, even a belt buckle with a razors edge under a protective shield.

I don't see Victor going into the office of the Swedish rocket builder and placing his order. For one, that would be illegal.

I could have bought a tank or helicopter. I know the maker would have not known me.

I think that is a salient point. Victor was illegal. He bought from illegal sources and sold to illegal clients.

[kuffki]

Five thousand AK-47s, anti-personnel mines, fragmentation grenades, armor-piercing rockets.

That is what the sting was about. The US does not make AK-47's or anti personnel mines.

Fragmentation grenades are manufactured by Thales of Australia among others. Armor piercing rockets? The Swedes make a good one.

Victor would buy from anyone and sell to anyone. I would imagine if you wanted a AICW system he could have found you one.

Victor was an illegal arms dealer. I think illegal is the key word rather than who manufactures the weapons.

But as per your logic, all those manufactures sold the weapons to him knowing what he was, so would not they be also guilty then????

if anything, he was a middle man for those where officials from manufactures or countries could not make any deals.

Illegal or convenient??? depends who is looking and who is a loser and winner.

I was in a war. I didn't like the weapons the army gave me. I bought my own. The manufacturer never knew who the end user would be. I bought a machine gun, grenades, grenade launcher, pistol, even a belt buckle with a razors edge under a protective shield.

I don't see Victor going into the office of the Swedish rocket builder and placing his order. For one, that would be illegal.

I could have bought a tank or helicopter. I know the maker would have not known me.

I think that is a salient point. Victor was illegal. He bought from illegal sources and sold to illegal clients.

That is such a naive point of view.

You posted earlier about UK, Belgian police had evidence, all the news articles, the movie,

So do you really believe manufactures did not know who Victor was and what he did????

Can anyone just walk in off the street and order a few rocket launchers or 5000 AK-47??????

Manufactures were well aware what Victor did and where weapons where sold, but they did not care because they made money.

While i do not support his business, rest assured he was not alone an there are many other people in the "high places" who are just as guilty if not more.

If he could not purchase the weapons, he could not supply it, so he could of easily been stopped should authority's really wanted to dig that deep

[mark45y]

Five thousand AK-47s, anti-personnel mines, fragmentation grenades, armor-piercing rockets.

That is what the sting was about. The US does not make AK-47's or anti personnel mines.

Fragmentation grenades are manufactured by Thales of Australia among others. Armor piercing rockets? The Swedes make a good one.

Victor would buy from anyone and sell to anyone. I would imagine if you wanted a AICW system he could have found you one.

Victor was an illegal arms dealer. I think illegal is the key word rather than who manufactures the weapons.

But as per your logic, all those manufactures sold the weapons to him knowing what he was, so would not they be also guilty then????

if anything, he was a middle man for those where officials from manufactures or countries could not make any deals.

Illegal or convenient??? depends who is looking and who is a loser and winner.

I was in a war. I didn't like the weapons the army gave me. I bought my own. The manufacturer never knew who the end user would be. I bought a machine gun, grenades, grenade launcher, pistol, even a belt buckle with a razors edge under a protective shield.

I don't see Victor going into the office of the Swedish rocket builder and placing his order. For one, that would be illegal.

I could have bought a tank or helicopter. I know the maker would have not known me.

I think that is a salient point. Victor was illegal. He bought from illegal sources and sold to illegal clients.

That is such a naive point of view.

You posted earlier about UK, Belgian police had evidence, all the news articles, the movie,

So do you really believe manufactures did not know who Victor was and what he did????

Can anyone just walk in off the street and order a few rocket launchers or 5000 AK-47??????

Manufactures were well aware what Victor did and where weapons where sold, but they did not care because they made money.

While i do not support his business, rest assured he was not alone an there are many other people in the "high places" who are just as guilty if not more.

If he could not purchase the weapons, he could not supply it, so he could of easily been stopped should authority's really wanted to dig that deep

Victor buys his weapons from the failed states of the USSR. They have stockpiles of almost every kind of weapon available. They even sell submarines and suitcase nukes. Sorry I am not naive at all.

[kuffki]

Victor buys his weapons from the failed states of the USSR. They have stockpiles of almost every kind of weapon available. They even sell submarines and suitcase nukes. Sorry I am not naive at all.

According to whom? is there any evidence where he allegedly bought from?

Besides the movie of course.

PS. Can you name a few states that have the stockpiles please

PPS. If they did sell suitcase nukes as you posted, do you not think terrorists would have already purchased container worth of those suitcases.

Edited November 20, 2010 by kuffki

[mark45y]

Victor buys his weapons from the failed states of the USSR. They have stockpiles of almost every kind of weapon available. They even sell submarines and suitcase nukes. Sorry I am not naive at all.

According to whom? is there any evidence where he allegedly bought from?

Besides the movie of course.

PS. Can you name a few states that have the stockpiles please

Ukrainian authorities admitted yesterday that they knew about the contraband cargo of North Korean weapons on the IL-76, which had been apprehended in Thailand last weekend. The press service of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) explained that this information came “from foreign partners’ intelligence services” and “Alpha” special units were prepared to seize the airplane in case it had landed in the Kiev airport. However, experts believe that by making this statement, Kiev is simply trying to divert any suspicions regarding its involvement in arms smuggling.

Washington Post

MIAMI—Russian organized crime groups, flush with dollars, are forming alliances with Colombian drug traffickers in the Caribbean, acquiring cocaine for delivery to Europe and providing weapons to Latin American mafias, according to U.S., European and Latin American law enforcement officials.

In particular, the sources said, recent undercover operations have detected attempts by Russian groups to sell Colombian drug traffickers a submarine, helicopters and surface-to-air missiles. Officials said that at least two Russian combat helicopters, along with small arms, have been sold to Colombian organizations.

In the past three months, the officials said, several Russian vessels have entered the northern Colombian port of Turbo and are believed to have unloaded shipments of AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades in exchange for drugs. It is perhaps a measure of the general level of violence in Colombia that authorities do not know whether the weapons went to Marxist guerrillas, right-wing paramilitary organizations or the Cali drug cartel.

According to the indictment, brought after a three-year undercover investigation, Fainberg and others used Porky's as a meeting place to arrange the sale of at least two Soviet military helicopters to the Cali cartel. According to officials, they also were negotiating to sell the cartel a Tango-class diesel-powered patrol submarine to be used to move cocaine from Colombia to the coast of California. The submarine was based in Kronshtadt, a large Russian submarine base on the Gulf of Finland, off St. Petersburg.

You can Google the rest there are literally thousands of entries.

Ukraine is the big supplier.

[kuffki]

Victor buys his weapons from the failed states of the USSR. They have stockpiles of almost every kind of weapon available. They even sell submarines and suitcase nukes. Sorry I am not naive at all.

According to whom? is there any evidence where he allegedly bought from?

Besides the movie of course.

PS. Can you name a few states that have the stockpiles please

Ukrainian authorities admitted yesterday that they knew about the contraband cargo of North Korean weapons on the IL-76, which had been apprehended in Thailand last weekend. The press service of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) explained that this information came "from foreign partners' intelligence services" and "Alpha" special units were prepared to seize the airplane in case it had landed in the Kiev airport. However, experts believe that by making this statement, Kiev is simply trying to divert any suspicions regarding its involvement in arms smuggling.

Washington Post

MIAMI—Russian organized crime groups, flush with dollars, are forming alliances with Colombian drug traffickers in the Caribbean, acquiring cocaine for delivery to Europe and providing weapons to Latin American mafias, according to U.S., European and Latin American law enforcement officials.

In particular, the sources said, recent undercover operations have detected attempts by Russian groups to sell Colombian drug traffickers a submarine, helicopters and surface-to-air missiles. Officials said that at least two Russian combat helicopters, along with small arms, have been sold to Colombian organizations.

In the past three months, the officials said, several Russian vessels have entered the northern Colombian port of Turbo and are believed to have unloaded shipments of AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades in exchange for drugs. It is perhaps a measure of the general level of violence in Colombia that authorities do not know whether the weapons went to Marxist guerrillas, right-wing paramilitary organizations or the Cali drug cartel.

According to the indictment, brought after a three-year undercover investigation, Fainberg and others used Porky's as a meeting place to arrange the sale of at least two Soviet military helicopters to the Cali cartel. According to officials, they also were negotiating to sell the cartel a Tango-class diesel-powered patrol submarine to be used to move cocaine from Colombia to the coast of California. The submarine was based in Kronshtadt, a large Russian submarine base on the Gulf of Finland, off St. Petersburg.

You can Google the rest there are literally thousands of entries.

Ukraine is the big supplier.

Not to discredit this story, but how about an independent source, i mean Washington Post is hardly an unbiased press.

Also i did not see anywhere in this article where it refereed to Victor buying from them.

Furthermore, in the article(unless i misunderstood) it talks of weapons of North Korea NOT Ukraine.

If anything this article is pretty much based on the movie, which is hardly a fact.

Buts lets assume for a minute that they do have a credible source and it is not biased at all,then you really need to ask yourself, why is it that since 1992 not USA or UK or the rest of the world, did not put sanctions on Ukrain to put a stop to arms dealing. From memory during their last elections USA government issued an official support for one of the candidates.

So as i said earlier, all the allegations and everything else about Victor is speculations without much of hard evidence. Yes they may have evidence of him taking an order(but i emphasize may have evidence, as he could of easily been a delivery man) they do not have any evidence where weapons were sourced from, and if they do, then again is raised the questions why they did not and still do not go after the actual source but only after the middle man.