UK Language Testing For Spousal Immigrants Starts Monday

[RAZZELL]

khastan, you are correct in your thinking that it only applies for migrants from outside of the EU, as to put this requirement on citizens from other countries in the EU would breach EU law.

Even then there are some exceptions, if you are a national of a majority English-speaking country, you will meet the English language requirement automatically. You will not need to take a test.

Those countries are: Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, New Zealand, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago And the United States of America.

Does that mean going by what you have said for example, if two males living in the UK next door to each other and both decide to go to Thailand together, one of those is an EU member and one is a UK citizen and they both fall in love with a Thai partner and wish to return to the UK to live together, according to this new law the EU partner does not have to undergo the new English text requirements, but the UK citizen has to meet with the requirements, now how can anyone say that this is a fair ruling?

I honestly do feel that this is despicable law and truly know the heartache and misery this will cause to families and individuals, I notice also prior to all this that the British Embassy has now decided to restrict there working hours yet further. In all probability to avoid the flack that is no doubt coming from the expats with this new unjust requirement! The person responsible for this allowing this new law in its present form should be fired!

Well, the law is a joke...but then again so is "free movement" in the EU

Why should someone from Krakow have more "right" to live in the UK with their partner than someone from Croydon who's other-half come's from Khon Kaen?

RAZZ

[khastan]

Thank you for this confirmation. The fact that certain English speaking countries citizens do not have to fulfill this requirement is not the issue. The issue is one of fairness and this is an utter disgrace and like I said before the Con/Dems should hang their heads in shame.

It was actually Labour Government policy and due to come in before the current lot came to power, though I seem to remember that the current government brought the implementation forward, not 100% sure though.

To be fair it really is a low standard and anyone intending to settle in the UK should really achieve the required standard without any difficulty, though there is the added expense.

With the greatest respect it is not the point which UK goverment brought this law in, or if a appliciant should meet this requirement, or if it is a easy test to pass. The ruling is flawed and unfair because it should apply to all applicants and not just from partners who are UK citizens.

[theoldgit]

Not quite that simple and I'm not an expert on these matters, but I think yes.

If an EEA national has a Thai wife and they want to exercise their right for free movement then yes they could apply for a family permit to live in the UK without the language test, as I say I don't know for sure but I think I'm right.

I doubt if the reduced hours by the Consular Section public desk has anything to do with this, much as we would like to think so, don't forget the UKBA section at the embassy deal with such matters not the Consular Section.

[nisaden]

khastan, you are correct in your thinking that it only applies for migrants from outside of the EU, as to put this requirement on citizens from other countries in the EU would breach EU law.

Even then there are some exceptions, if you are a national of a majority English-speaking country, you will meet the English language requirement automatically. You will not need to take a test.

Those countries are: Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, New Zealand, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago And the United States of America.

Does that mean going by what you have said for example, if two males living in the UK next door to each other and both decide to go to Thailand together, one of those is an EU member and one is a UK citizen and they both fall in love with a Thai partner and wish to return to the UK to live together, according to this new law the EU partner does not have to undergo the new English text requirements, but the UK citizen has to meet with the requirements, now how can anyone say that this is a fair ruling?

I honestly do feel that this is despicable law and truly know the heartache and misery this will cause to families and individuals, I notice also prior to all this that the British Embassy has now decided to restrict there working hours yet further. In all probability to avoid the flack that is no doubt coming from the expats with this new unjust requirement! The person responsible for this allowing this new law in its present form should be fired!

I couldn't agree more with you!

Well, the law is a joke...but then again so is "free movement" in the EU

Why should someone from Krakow have more "right" to live in the UK with their partner than someone from Croydon who's other-half come's from Khon Kaen?

RAZZ

[VisasPlus]

khastan, you are correct in your thinking that it only applies for migrants from outside of the EU, as to put this requirement on citizens from other countries in the EU would breach EU law.

Even then there are some exceptions, if you are a national of a majority English-speaking country, you will meet the English language requirement automatically. You will not need to take a test.

Those countries are: Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Dominica, Grenada, Guyana, Jamaica, New Zealand, St Kitts and Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago And the United States of America.

Does that mean going by what you have said for example, if two males living in the UK next door to each other and both decide to go to Thailand together, one of those is an EU member and one is a UK citizen and they both fall in love with a Thai partner and wish to return to the UK to live together, according to this new law the EU partner does not have to undergo the new English text requirements, but the UK citizen has to meet with the requirements, now how can anyone say that this is a fair ruling?

I honestly do feel that this is despicable law and truly know the heartache and misery this will cause to families and individuals, I notice also prior to all this that the British Embassy has now decided to restrict there working hours yet further. In all probability to avoid the flack that is no doubt coming from the expats with this new unjust requirement! The person responsible for this allowing this new law in its present form should be fired!

You are right, the EU national is better off. Actually, it is not just a case of the EU national's spouse not having to meet the language requirement. The UK national's spouse must also pay in the region of 750 GBP for her visa to join her husband in the UK , whereas the EU national's wife gets her visa to live in the UK free .

[theoldgit]

[With the greatest respect it is not the point which UK goverment brought this law in, or if a appliciant should meet this requirement, or if it is a easy test to pass. The ruling is flawed and unfair because it should apply to all applicants and not just from partners who are UK citizens.

Unfair, most certainly, but I doubt if it's flawed.

[RAZZELL]

Not quite that simple and I'm not an expert on these matters, but I think yes.

If an EEA national has a Thai wife and they want to exercise their right for free movement then yes they could apply for a family permit to live in the UK without the language test, as I say I don't know for sure but I think I'm right.

I doubt if the reduced hours by the Consular Section public desk has anything to do with this, much as we would like to think so, don't forget the UKBA section at the embassy deal with such matters not the Consular Section.

I don't know about "EEA family permit's" but aren't they issued for a number of years, I think 5???? What happen's after the 5 years are up? Does the applicant then try for ILR? Surely then they'd need to take a "A1 Level Test?

Although this is getting a bit "off-topic".

RAZZ

Edited November 29, 2010 by RAZZELL

[SweeneyAgonistes]

If you're going to move to Britain, your English should be at A1 level - at the very least - for your own benefit. Anyone who doesn't have a learning difficulty can get to that level easily - and the test is only listening and speaking - so it's really not something to get your knickers in a twist about.

[RAZZELL]

If you're going to move to Britain, your English should be at A1 level - at the very least - for your own benefit. Anyone who doesn't have a learning difficulty can get to that level easily - and the test is only listening and speaking - so it's really not something to get your knickers in a twist about.

There's reading and writing in it as well...

http://www.pearsonpte.com/PTEGENERAL/LEVELA1/Pages/home.aspx

I personally don't have a problem with people having to take an English Test to settle in the UK. Infact, I think it's a great idea. The problem is it's not applicable to all who will be applying for settlement.

RAZZ

Edited November 29, 2010 by RAZZELL

[Bastian]

Bit difficult, given that any number of countries require official immigrants to demonstrate their grasp of the language.

Wonder how long it will be before someone takes the UK to the court of human rights because they were denied settlement of a partner who could not speak English?

I think that's a good point, Brunel, but I don't understand why it hasn't been tested in the courts. Surely Human Rights legislation gives the right to family life. So, how is it okay to give that right to people who can speak English but not to those who don't ? I haven't any idea of the answer, and only put this forward for the sake of discussion.

Our Federal Administrative Court has decided earlier this year, that language requirements are completely fine and in accordance with COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 2003/86/EC of 22 September 2003 on the right to family reunification and hence EU law neither is it unconstitutional (well, considering our constitution, the UK doesn't have a real constitution).

If you are concerned that spouses of foreigners, who are EU nationals are treated more favourably, I suggest you read the paper Reverse Discrimination and Family Reunification by Anne Walter.

[SweeneyAgonistes]

A1 is a language standard. I says "To be at this level, you should be able to do this, this and this, in the target language" (which could be English or Swahili or Urdu or anything else). It's not an exam. According to the original article: "Migrant spouses and partners will have to demonstrate English language ability at "A1" level of the Common European Framework of Reference for speaking and listening."

Edited November 29, 2010 by SweeneyAgonistes

[khastan]

[With the greatest respect it is not the point which UK goverment brought this law in, or if a appliciant should meet this requirement, or if it is a easy test to pass. The ruling is flawed and unfair because it should apply to all applicants and not just from partners who are UK citizens.

Unfair, most certainly, but I doubt if it's flawed.

I am sorry but if the infomation recieved from VisasPlus is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it is not that a UK citizen's partner has to pay the visa fee of £750.00 and a EU citizen pays nothing, how can you say that this is not flawed, let alone the question of a unfair language test .

Edited November 29, 2010 by khastan

[nisaden]

If you're going to move to Britain, your English should be at A1 level - at the very least - for your own benefit. Anyone who doesn't have a learning difficulty can get to that level easily - and the test is only listening and speaking - so it's really not something to get your knickers in a twist about.

There's reading and writing in it as well...

http://www.pearsonpt...Pages/home.aspx

I personally don't have a problem with people having to take an English Test to settle in the UK. Infact, I think it's a great idea. The problem is it's not applicable to all who will be applying for settlement.

RAZZ

SweeneyAgonistes, you obviously don't come a poor country where such things as taking English lessons cost money, you try telling that to all the Eastern European immigrants that are flooding into the UK.

[khastan]

If you're going to move to Britain, your English should be at A1 level - at the very least - for your own benefit. Anyone who doesn't have a learning difficulty can get to that level easily - and the test is only listening and speaking - so it's really not something to get your knickers in a twist about.

There's reading and writing in it as well...

http://www.pearsonpt...Pages/home.aspx

I personally don't have a problem with people having to take an English Test to settle in the UK. Infact, I think it's a great idea. The problem is it's not applicable to all who will be applying for settlement.

RAZZ

Yes that is the point I am trying to make, that it should apply to all and not just UK citizens partners wishing to settle in the UK.

[VisasPlus]

]

Bastian's quote

If you are concerned that spouses of foreigners, who are EU nationals are treated more favourably, I suggest you read the paper Reverse Discrimination and Family Reunification by Anne Walter.

I tried, honest ! Could you just give me a precis of that in about 50 words ?

Edited November 29, 2010 by VisasPlus

[SweeneyAgonistes]

SweeneyAgonistes, you obviously don't come a poor country where such things as taking English lessons cost money, you try telling that to all the Eastern European immigrants that are flooding into the UK.

Huh? Eastern Europeans aren't flooding into the UK and they don't have to take the exam. Besides, getting yourself to A1 level is a piece of piss. If you're shacking up with some guy you met in a bar or who fell in love with your portrait on mailorderbrides.com, it's hardly a major undertaking. Of course, some people want to feel hard done by, and they especially want to feel hard done by by Eastern Europeans, so anything I write is almost certainly wasted.

[RAZZELL]

SweeneyAgonistes, you obviously don't come a poor country where such things as taking English lessons cost money, you try telling that to all the Eastern European immigrants that are flooding into the UK.

Huh? Eastern Europeans aren't flooding into the UK and they don't have to take the exam. Besides, getting yourself to A1 level is a piece of piss. If you're shacking up with some guy you met in a bar or who fell in love with your portrait on mailorderbrides.com, it's hardly a major undertaking. Of course, some people want to feel hard done by, and they especially want to feel hard done by by Eastern Europeans, so anything I write is almost certainly wasted.

You're obviously "trolling" but I suggest you read the figures and at least know what you are "trolling" about

Educate yourself:

At least 500,000 from Eastern Europe still in the UK. Net migration +237,000 in 2007 etc etc etc

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

In the Guardian, +215,000 year ending March 2010.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/25/uk-net-migration-215000

Or here read the bit about Worker Registration Scheme:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/mig1110.pdf

RAZZ

[RAZZELL]

SweeneyAgonistes, you obviously don't come a poor country where such things as taking English lessons cost money, you try telling that to all the Eastern European immigrants that are flooding into the UK.

Huh? Eastern Europeans aren't flooding into the UK and they don't have to take the exam. Besides, getting yourself to A1 level is a piece of piss. If you're shacking up with some guy you met in a bar or who fell in love with your portrait on mailorderbrides.com, it's hardly a major undertaking. Of course, some people want to feel hard done by, and they especially want to feel hard done by by Eastern Europeans, so anything I write is almost certainly wasted.

You're obviously "trolling" but I suggest you read the figures and at least know what you are "trolling" about

Educate yourself:

At least 500,000 from Eastern Europe still in the UK. Net migration +237,000 in 2007 etc etc etc

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

In the Guardian, +215,000 year ending March 2010.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/25/uk-net-migration-215000

Or here read the bit about Worker Registration Scheme:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/mig1110.pdf

RAZZ

[SweeneyAgonistes]

When you describe people as flooding into the country you're making a judgment. It's about values. It's not about raw numbers. Really, if you're the kind of person who quotes Migration Watch - I feel dirty just typing their name - you should be aware of this.

And, by the way, there's no need to put trolling in scare quotes.

[chiang mai]

Before this thread gets closed: the language test is held once a month in Bangkok and costs Baht 3,500, this means that Settlement Visa applicants will need to plan ahead and secure a place on a test well in advance.

[RAZZELL]

When you describe people as flooding into the country you're making a judgment. It's about values. It's not about raw numbers. Really, if you're the kind of person who quotes Migration Watch - I feel dirty just typing their name - you should be aware of this.

And, by the way, there's no need to put trolling in scare quotes.

This is going way off-topic but to answer...

If it's not about raw numbers what is it about then? And what do you call a "flood"? 50,000? 100,000? 1,000,000? I think by most definitions 2m+ immigrants to the UK in the last 15 years would be called a "flood" don't you?

And by the way Migrationwatch is a think tank that believes in balanced migration. It is no different from any other think tank including the like's of the Fabian Society. They just espouse different views.

Who's do you want to silence?

RAZZ

[khastan]

Before this thread gets closed: the language test is held once a month in Bangkok and costs Baht 3,500, this means that Settlement Visa applicants will need to plan ahead and secure a place on a test well in advance.

I was under the impression from reading this forum that this new test would cost the applicant 6000bht to take?

[SweeneyAgonistes]

And by the way Migrationwatch is a think tank that believes in balanced migration

Absolute balls. It's a campaign group dedicated to whipping up fear of immigration and immigrants.

I think by most definitions 2m+ immigrants to the UK in the last 15 years would be called a "flood" don't you?

The answer's in the question. Really, given my earlier post, what do you think?

[RAZZELL]

And by the way Migrationwatch is a think tank that believes in balanced migration

Absolute balls. It's a campaign group dedicated to whipping up fear of immigration and immigrants.

I think by most definitions 2m+ immigrants to the UK in the last 15 years would be called a "flood" don't you?

The answer's in the question. Really, given my earlier post, what do you think?

I think you don't know what you're talking about and are trying to hide behind the "race card" like all those who don't want an educated debate on the pro's and con's of mass migration.

Like I said - "Who's view do you want to silence"?

RAZZ

Edited November 29, 2010 by RAZZELL

[Rayongy]

Razz - can we have this thread back on topic please? 7by7 will get upset.

[chiang mai]

Before this thread gets closed: the language test is held once a month in Bangkok and costs Baht 3,500, this means that Settlement Visa applicants will need to plan ahead and secure a place on a test well in advance.

I was under the impression from reading this forum that this new test would cost the applicant 6000bht to take?

I just booked a seat on the BKK course for a friend on 4 December, Baht 3,500.

[SweeneyAgonistes]

Like I said - "Who's view do you want to silence"?

I presume you mean "Whose view do you want to silence?" to which the answer is: I don't want to silence anyone. And I've written nothing which could possibly be interpreted as suggesting that I do.

And forgive my ignorance but what's the meaning of the stupid little whistling face?

Oh, and no need for scare quotes on race card, either.

[khastan]

Before this thread gets closed: the language test is held once a month in Bangkok and costs Baht 3,500, this means that Settlement Visa applicants will need to plan ahead and secure a place on a test well in advance.

I was under the impression from reading this forum that this new test would cost the applicant 6000bht to take?

I just booked a seat on the BKK course for a friend on 4 December, Baht 3,500.

Thanks for confirming the cost of the test. They must have now reduced the cost because I read on a post on TV recently that the pre test was 1000baht and the A1 test was 6000baht.

[RAZZELL]

Like I said - "Who's view do you want to silence"?

I presume you mean "Whose view do you want to silence?" to which the answer is: I don't want to silence anyone. And I've written nothing which could possibly be interpreted as suggesting that I do.

And forgive my ignorance but what's the meaning of the stupid little whistling face?

Oh, and no need for scare quotes on race card, either.

So, you're not only only a member of the Thought Police but a spelling nazi too (Posting on an I-Phone ain't that easy )

I suggest this quote says it all:

And by the way Migrationwatch is a think tank that believes in balanced migration

Absolute balls. It's a campaign group dedicated to whipping up fear of immigration and immigrants.

You don't like any point of view apart from your own

(Note whistling emoticons for irony )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoticon

Last post on the subject...if you want to open another thread..get your facts straight and we can try and have an intelligent debate...If you're up for it

RAZZ

[chiang mai]

Can you two please stop and just let this thread continue as intended from the outset - this is an important topic.