Lending Issue, Advice Needed

[nikkoid66]

He can only use the law to force her to pay if he has a contract. The contract cannot state interest of more than 15%pa or 1.25%pm – the court will reduce any higher amount in the contract to this figure. My personal view is that 5%pm is too high (though very common) and that 3%pm is fair, though still considered too high by Thai law.

Actually she loan 50,000 and pays 12500/month for 5 month.

She has a contract.

I had the feeling this is quite bogus because a tourist should not loan money and specially not at more than 40% / year.

I tried to asked him to put the interest at %0 so that she can payback immediately, but no luck

[Khonwan]

He can only use the law to force her to pay if he has a contract. The contract cannot state interest of more than 15%pa or 1.25%pm – the court will reduce any higher amount in the contract to this figure. My personal view is that 5%pm is too high (though very common) and that 3%pm is fair, though still considered too high by Thai law.

The reality of life, particularly in the villages, is somewhat different.

I’ve lived in a remote village here for over 14 years and have had loads of personal ongoing experience in this subject. Since I do not expect anyone to take my word over the maximum rate (as an anonymous writer on an Internet forum, though several forum members know me in person socially ) I’ve found the following via Google:

www.bia.co.th/legalupdates/Loans and Security Interests Art 070108.doc

http://pattayatoday.net/business/legal-corner/%E2%80%9Cusury%E2%80%9D/

The PattayaToday article is the more readable and comprehensive.

As an aside, there are a lot of men in my village who have killed at least once in their life yet nobody ever resorts to violence to reclaim money owed to them.

[nikkoid66]

People here seem to see only the dark side of every story.

She's trying to pay back, isn't it a positive point?

She say's she cant pay, doesn't she?

Keep in mind there are planty of countries where not being able to pay back can result in imprisonment. If she can't pay back it means there's a dark side to the story. Personally, I dont have any loans other than what I ramp up monthly using my AMEX card, but I have hunch even AMEX would smile if I first didn't pay a then called them up and asked them to see the bright side "at least I'm TRYING to pay back, isn't that a positive point..!"

Curtains...

Note that I confirm that she pays and will pay... she just truggle a lot to pay back and I think that when you f.ck a girl for free and get a lot from her like this guy did (use her as your secretary without paying her etc...) then you could lend money at no interest rate, as a friend.

These are my values.

[JUDAS]

The OP's gf borrowed money from her ex at what now is described as an excessive rate. If she didn't like the rate she shouldn't have taken the money. Now we are at a stage were the gf wants to change the terms of the deal. I have no time for people who don't keep their word.

[timekeeper]

no, anyone lending money to a thai girlfriend and expecting it back, HE should be ashamed of himself for not knowing the rules.

Lend means give.

time and money are both vague notions in the mind of many thais. This is a legitimate observation based on nearly 5 years living among these people. arrange a time, don't expect them to be there. lend money, don't expect to get it back. This is the way of the Thai.

seems he knew the rules when dealing with Thai and wrote it out in a contract

the fact that you think its ok to steal the money says more about you than it does about Thai's.......

[Khonwan]

The OP's gf borrowed money from her ex at what now is described as an excessive rate. If she didn't like the rate she shouldn't have taken the money. Now we are at a stage were the gf wants to change the terms of the deal. I have no time for people who don't keep their word.

Thai law considers it excessive. Is 20%pm excessive in your opinion? What about 20% per day (they exist!)? Would you consider that a desperate person yielding to an excessive contract is morally obliged to honour that dishonourable contract? Where would you draw the line to protect desperate people?

[timekeeper]

People here seem to see only the dark side of every story.

She's trying to pay back, isn't it a positive point?

She say's she cant pay, doesn't she?

Keep in mind there are planty of countries where not being able to pay back can result in imprisonment. If she can't pay back it means there's a dark side to the story. Personally, I dont have any loans other than what I ramp up monthly using my AMEX card, but I have hunch even AMEX would smile if I first didn't pay a then called them up and asked them to see the bright side "at least I'm TRYING to pay back, isn't that a positive point..!"

Curtains...

Note that I confirm that she pays and will pay... she just truggle a lot to pay back and I think that when you f.ck a girl for free and get a lot from her like this guy did (use her as your secretary without paying her etc...) then you could lend money at no interest rate, as a friend.

These are my values.

to quote you:

''f.ck a girl for free''

are you doing the same?

why not pay the remainder of the loan off for her, then let her repay you at 0% and simply move on

then everyone will be happy until she simply moves on.............. from you

Edited November 28, 2010 by timekeeper

[Semper]

To the OP, 5% per month is very cheap. Normal rate in Chiang mai is 20% per month.

[timekeeper]

The OP's gf borrowed money from her ex at what now is described as an excessive rate. If she didn't like the rate she shouldn't have taken the money. Now we are at a stage were the gf wants to change the terms of the deal. I have no time for people who don't keep their word.

i agree with you Judas when your word is no good, you are no good and you are generally up to no good.

[Phil Conners]

a farang boyfriend loans her money for sick dying buffalo/ma or paa sick/ motorbike/death / a lai gu dai

he reads th ex-pat forums and as such he is sensible enough to agree favorable terms for himself before he makes the loan

she agrees to the loan but in reality she knows she cannot repay it, BUT still takes the money, tommorrow is another day

once she has the money in hand she takes leave of the boyfriend.

he is understandably upset

he feels stupid, smells deciept and betrayal and now he wants his money back,

she says she can't pay.

she gets a new boyfriend, he is now even more unhappy about the situation

as the new boyfriend, you are upset that she is upset and that she is still in contact with a now very upset ex boyfriend

he presumably is suggesting sexual favors to help her pay the debt

that makes you upset

you state he is on tourist visa as you are already considering reporting him to get him as some kind of farang loan shark to get him out of both your lives and relieve herself of the legitimate debt and you of an annoying ex boyfriend

he will only be out one girlfriend, out of the country and out the remainder of the principle sum on a legitimate loan

what a great idea!

so why not consider doing the honorable thing?

why don't you pay him back and you take over the debt ?

its clear you are such a nice man and are so concerned about her welfare that you seek advise of the old timers on a ex-pat forum, you could even give the money to her interest free.

then she would be very happy with you, the ex boyfriend will be more happy but will still be a little bit upset at her betrayal but will have no genuine reason to be pestering you both

then you can take the high road to a happy ending........ until she dumps you to relieve herself of the debt to you

the circle of life in Thailand continues...........

Well said! Bravo!

+1 green dot!

[JUDAS]

The OP's gf borrowed money from her ex at what now is described as an excessive rate. If she didn't like the rate she shouldn't have taken the money. Now we are at a stage were the gf wants to change the terms of the deal. I have no time for people who don't keep their word.

Thai law considers it excessive. Is 20%pm excessive in your opinion? What about 20% per day (they exist!)? Would you consider that a desperate person yielding to an excessive contract is morally obliged to honour that dishonourable contract? Where would you draw the line to protect desperate people?

I agree the rate may be excessive but it suited the gf at the time. I'm certainly not defending "loan sharks" more like advocating people take responsibility for their actions. In this situation we don't know the purpose of the loan but, maybe you're right and the gf was in a desperate situation. On the other hand she might well have been like some of my staff who borrow money to buy the latest mobile 'phone worth 3 times their monthly salary.

[GooEng]

People here seem to see only the dark side of every story.

She's trying to pay back, isn't it a positive point?

She say's she cant pay, doesn't she?

Keep in mind there are planty of countries where not being able to pay back can result in imprisonment. If she can't pay back it means there's a dark side to the story. Personally, I dont have any loans other than what I ramp up monthly using my AMEX card, but I have hunch even AMEX would smile if I first didn't pay a then called them up and asked them to see the bright side "at least I'm TRYING to pay back, isn't that a positive point..!"

Curtains...

Note that I confirm that she pays and will pay... she just truggle a lot to pay back and I think that when you f.ck a girl for free and get a lot from her like this guy did (use her as your secretary without paying her etc...) then you could lend money at no interest rate, as a friend.

These are my values.

to quote you:

''f.ck a girl for free''

are you doing the same?

why not pay the remainder of the loan off for her, then let her repay you at 0% and simply move on

then everyone will be happy until she simply moves on.............. from you

lovin' this answer. it's a thread stopper!

well played timekeeper.

[Forethat]

People here seem to see only the dark side of every story.

She's trying to pay back, isn't it a positive point?

She say's she cant pay, doesn't she?

Keep in mind there are planty of countries where not being able to pay back can result in imprisonment. If she can't pay back it means there's a dark side to the story. Personally, I dont have any loans other than what I ramp up monthly using my AMEX card, but I have hunch even AMEX would smile if I first didn't pay a then called them up and asked them to see the bright side "at least I'm TRYING to pay back, isn't that a positive point..!"

Curtains...

Note that I confirm that she pays and will pay

No, that's not at all what you said. If you want to I can remind you what you said it was:

This guy is a farang, he has a tourist visa and is asking for the money she cannot payback.

So, in conclusion: tell her to <deleted> and pay back the money she borrowed - according to terms and conditions she agreed - and while she's at it tell her to ask her boyfriend to stop moaning about it on the internet.

Another happy customer...

Edited November 28, 2010 by Forethat

[prakhonchai nick]

To the OP, 5% per month is very cheap. Normal rate in Chiang mai is 20% per month.

5% a month is NOT cheap, but this girl is NOT paying 5%. In the first month of 5, she is paying 2500bt interest (5%), and repaying 10,000bt, That reduces the loan to 40,000 which at 5% would be 2000bt interest. Interest for the remaining 3 months would be 1500, 1000 and 500bt respectively assuming she continued to repay the loan at 10,000 a month. This contract nets at almost 10% a month interest way above what is legally allowed.

The girl willingly took the loan, and must repay it, BUT I think it would be reasonable for her to refuse to pay the excessive and unlawful interest, and perhaps pay 2% a month on the outstanding balance each month.

[GuestHouse]

My Girlfriend's ex-boyfriend has lent some money to her at an excessive rate (5%/month).

This guy is a farang, he has a tourist visa and is asking for the money she cannot payback.

Is the OP really suggesting that it matters that the guy is a Farang and that he's on a tourist visa?

Why should that matter unless the OP is suggesting he can cause the lender some problems?

There's some nasty little sh1ts around these days.

......

Go ahead help your girlfriend ditch her obligation to pay back the load - You'll benefit from the same treatment in the future I'm sure.

[gregb]

I agree the rate may be excessive but it suited the gf at the time. I'm certainly not defending "loan sharks" more like advocating people take responsibility for their actions. In this situation we don't know the purpose of the loan but, maybe you're right and the gf was in a desperate situation. On the other hand she might well have been like some of my staff who borrow money to buy the latest mobile 'phone worth 3 times their monthly salary.

No. You can't do this. An illegal contract is illegal for a reason.

Would you also agree that a 4 year old agreeing to sex is OK, because it suited him/her at the time? No, in this case we all agree that a law is in place because the 4 year old is incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. Similarly, people of all ages are incapable of understanding how expensive interest truly is, and a law has been made to protect them, even if it is only from themselves.

The woman has a responsibility to pay back no more than the maximum 28% allowed under the law, and the loan should not have been issued at all if that rate of return was insufficient to guard against the risk of default.

Personally, I think the lender is a fool for not accepting the agreement to return the principal and cut his losses.

[dave111223]

Would you also agree that a 4 year old agreeing to sex is OK, because it suited him/her at the time? No, in this case we all agree that a law is in place because the 4 year old is incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. Similarly, people of all ages are incapable of understanding how expensive interest truly is, and a law has been made to protect them, even if it is only from themselves.

Please never try to use an analogy again.

[timekeeper]

Would you also agree that a 4 year old agreeing to sex is OK, because it suited him/her at the time? No, in this case we all agree that a law is in place because the 4 year old is incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. Similarly, people of all ages are incapable of understanding how expensive interest truly is, and a law has been made to protect them, even if it is only from themselves.

Please never try to use an analogy again.

i agree Dave, man this thread is going downhill fast........

[afarang]

If a farang lends money ,irrespective of if he has a signed, sealed and delivered document or not, at 5% per month , and he goes to the Police, my understanding is that he will be in very big strife.Especially, if he is on a tourist Visa. He is not a registered money lender. He has no legal rights. He should not have lent , in the first place. These loans are generally treated, by Thais as Gifts., 555555.From one who has been through the mill.

[lovelomsak]

NEVER a borrower or lender Be!

Close...

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

Polonius, speaking to his son, goes on...

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

(husbandry = responsible money management)

That is so true Thank you.

[lovelomsak]

The OP's gf borrowed money from her ex at what now is described as an excessive rate. If she didn't like the rate she shouldn't have taken the money. Now we are at a stage were the gf wants to change the terms of the deal. I have no time for people who don't keep their word.

i agree with you Judas when your word is no good, you are no good and you are generally up to no good.

I wouldnot lend or borrow in the first place But Judas is right she went in with her eyes open now she has the money wants the rules changed. I agree if a persons word is no good they are no good.

[JurgenG]

NEVER a borrower or lender Be!

Close...

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,

Polonius, speaking to his son, goes on...

For loan oft loses both itself and friend,

And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

(husbandry = responsible money management)

Polonius , a senile old fool who keeps on giving dumb advises ...

Like if we needed one more here

Edited November 28, 2010 by JurgenG

[JUDAS]

I agree the rate may be excessive but it suited the gf at the time. I'm certainly not defending "loan sharks" more like advocating people take responsibility for their actions. In this situation we don't know the purpose of the loan but, maybe you're right and the gf was in a desperate situation. On the other hand she might well have been like some of my staff who borrow money to buy the latest mobile 'phone worth 3 times their monthly salary.

No. You can't do this. An illegal contract is illegal for a reason.

Would you also agree that a 4 year old agreeing to sex is OK, because it suited him/her at the time? No, in this case we all agree that a law is in place because the 4 year old is incapable of understanding the consequences of their actions. Similarly, people of all ages are incapable of understanding how expensive interest truly is, and a law has been made to protect them, even if it is only from themselves.

The woman has a responsibility to pay back no more than the maximum 28% allowed under the law, and the loan should not have been issued at all if that rate of return was insufficient to guard against the risk of default.

Personally, I think the lender is a fool for not accepting the agreement to return the principal and cut his losses.

If you could make your point without bringing sex with a four year old into your argument, I might consider your post worthy of a reasonable reply.

[travelmann]

"My Girlfriend's ex-boyfriend has lent some money to her at an excessive rate (5%/month).

This guy is a farang, he has a tourist visa and is asking for the money she cannot payback.

Actually she need to pay him back almost all her salary every month and the guy don't want to negociate anything...he just want the money back and is very upset.

What should I do?

"

Choose a new g/f pronto just like she made the choice to borrow money, doesnt exactly bode wel for your future with her does it???????

[travelmann]

People here seem to see only the dark side of every story.

She's trying to pay back, isn't it a positive point?

She say's she cant pay, doesn't she?

Keep in mind there are planty of countries where not being able to pay back can result in imprisonment. If she can't pay back it means there's a dark side to the story. Personally, I dont have any loans other than what I ramp up monthly using my AMEX card, but I have hunch even AMEX would smile if I first didn't pay a then called them up and asked them to see the bright side "at least I'm TRYING to pay back, isn't that a positive point..!"

Curtains...

Note that I confirm that she pays and will pay... she just truggle a lot to pay back and I think that when you f.ck a girl for free and get a lot from her like this guy did (use her as your secretary without paying her etc...) then you could lend money at no interest rate, as a friend.

These are my values.

"Dont borrow what u cant pay back" are my morals always worked fine for me.

[MAJIC]

Haven't seen any suggestions yet ,that the new Boyfriend contacts the Farang Money lending ex Boyfriend,to find out if this is a genuine loan.

Or just another scam?........evidence of the Contract legality should also be forthcoming (has that been ascertained already?and i've missed it?

A further, in detail explanation of exactly where the money went,wouldn't go amiss either!

Perhaps the Thai GF is perfectly genuine,personally i'd do some homework before I bailed her out,and took on her loan.

Stranger things happen in Thailand.

Edited November 28, 2010 by MAJIC

[Loz]

no, anyone lending money to a thai girlfriend and expecting it back, HE should be ashamed of himself for not knowing the rules.

Lend means give.

time and money are both vague notions in the mind of many thais. This is a legitimate observation based on nearly 5 years living among these people. arrange a time, don't expect them to be there. lend money, don't expect to get it back. This is the way of the Thai.

Reflects sadly on the people you chose to associate with.

We lent money (interest free) to one neighbour to buy a motorcycle, it was pay back in full and on time.

We lent money (interest free) to an other neighbour who failed pray to a loan shark (same story as the OP). It took longer time than expected and we had to be creative in the ways of the repayment (give her small jobs ... ) but she eventually paid us back.

Unfortunately a taxi driver we know failed to ask us for money to help pay him back the mortgage for his taxi, and lost it. This guy has been so helpful and so reliable for us than even if it had taken years to repay us, we would have been more than happy to help him.

As I said, just depends of the people you chose to associate with.

To be honest I help someone a while ago, never saw my money back. It was a French guy, a sketch artist from Montmartre. But I didn't know in French sketch is spelled s _c_a._m.

er, I guess that reflects equally badly on your associates then? (Pot, kettle, black?)

[Loz]

no, anyone lending money to a thai girlfriend and expecting it back, HE should be ashamed of himself for not knowing the rules.

Lend means give.

time and money are both vague notions in the mind of many thais. This is a legitimate observation based on nearly 5 years living among these people. arrange a time, don't expect them to be there. lend money, don't expect to get it back. This is the way of the Thai.

seems he knew the rules when dealing with Thai and wrote it out in a contract

the fact that you think its ok to steal the money says more about you than it does about Thai's.......

If he knew the rules, he'd know that his "contract" was null and void as he lacked the legal means to enter into such a contract by way of not having a license, work permit or even appropriate visa.

But thanks for playing.

Does your lack of consideration of the above points speak to your own sense of fiscal responsibility?

[Loz]

If a farang lends money ,irrespective of if he has a signed, sealed and delivered document or not, at 5% per month , and he goes to the Police, my understanding is that he will be in very big strife.Especially, if he is on a tourist Visa. He is not a registered money lender. He has no legal rights. He should not have lent , in the first place. These loans are generally treated, by Thais as Gifts., 555555.From one who has been through the mill.

Hear Hear!!!

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

[supaprik]

I wonder if the "lender" even exsists......

Pay her debt or P I S S her off...simple as that