Elite Card

[Thaiquila]

We have received the following official information pack from Christina Dodd.

Christina is an official representative of the Thailand Elite Card Membership Club and is fully authorized to promote and sell Memberships.

Membership Validity:

LIFE TIME

* Transfer fee is subject to a fee equaling of 10% of the membership fee.

I really think you are INCORRECT Dave.

The information I see from the Thai Elite people (see first page of this string) says that you CAN transfer card, but you must pay a 10 percent fee of the sales price.

This means the value of "used" cards will float based on real market conditions, as in, it can go up, or it can go down.

Also, it has also been stated by Thai card people, that the buyer of a transferred cards gets the same goodies are the original buyer, including the 5 year visa.

However, as with anything else related to this card, the policy could have changed in the last five minutes.

And, in no way whatsoever, is this card, plastic and walletsized as it is, in away related to a credit card.

[Thaiquila]

I was really looking at this card closely, but I have come to these conclusions about it (and I am the first to admit I could be wrong):

1. The basic idea is very clever and had a lot of potential, both for the sellers and buyers.

2. It was released well before it was ready to be released. As is said in the computer industry "Get out the raid!." : It is full of bugs.

3. What policies and providers that do exist are not clearly communicated (looking at their website) in a believable manner.

4. The guarantee part of the card should have been etched in stone before releasing the card.

5. It is quite obvious that there was little or no test marketing of likely buyers.

Even if we grant that the target market are the true elites, I know from personal experience of knowing some super rich people, that they are not fools! 25 or 50K may be nothing to them, but they expect value for money. They might buy a 25K ring for their girlfriend, but you can be assured they know the gold and diamonds to be genuine.

So, I agree with those who have concluded that this card is a dud. But it didn't have to be. If I were behind the card, I would refund the money to all the buyers, and then GET IT TOGETHER even if it takes a few years, and then rerelease it.

[DaveYo]

Cannot you read between the lines. If you transfer this card to someone else, you have to cough up another 100,000 baht, since the value of the card is 1M. If it goes to 2M then it is 200K baht. The buyer does not pay the 100K, or the 200K, the original owner does to the company and government. That is your penalty fee.

Floating it???? That is suicide. First it is 1M, and if the value of that card goes down say 500K, what good is it? What are they trying to do with this card. Play the stock market with it now????? So if it goes down, who suffers the loss?????? You got it, the owner of the used card. Besides, who do you know right this instant who got 25K or 50K to drop into your pants pocket to get that card right now? Why would anyone want to risk buying a used card knowing it is going to float when they can buy the new card and it won't float???????

Keep in mind, the Thailand Government is out hunting for people who got money. 200 only right now and they launched this card in October not November. Ok say you find someone, don't forget this buyer has to meet their criteria financial wise and background wise. Oh, la la la la etc and what not that they also do not tell you. More headaches than it is worth. What happens if they reject the buyer?? There goes your money. Do you get a refund if they refuse your buyer???? and if you sell what happens to your priviledges from that point on. I suppose that too gets null and voided.

That official who said it can be transferred (if you noticed) in so few words does not really tell you what is actually behind the scheme of things. If they see a lot of this taking place, sure the government and the card company are going to reap in the extra 100K or 200K in their pockets and if it floats out like a boat, all it will take is a direct hit from some torpedo and vamoosa, comes down its value. One will lose plenty money on a used card with no chance to recover the loss. At least in the stock market you can bail out of some stock that is losing money on an instant if your alert. You cannot do that on this card.

Who is going to buy the used card knowing it is going to actually float like the dollar does? Imagine, 500K one day, 3M the next and perhaps 2M the following day, up and down like a yo yo. Ahhhhhhhh, I got better things to do besides having to worry about the value of my used card daily. Say it goes up 3M and now you find someone who got 75K USA dollars to drop in your pants, you better get the approval the same day instantly and pay them 300K on top of it before the value drops so you can at least stand to make any money on the deal.

So who is the one who's got their screws on backwards. One part they know they came out ahead on the deal any which way you look at it. To them they could care less of you, they can take their sweet time making the decision etc, and as you wait you see the value dropping by the hour and you can start to cry then.

Daveyoti

That is why I said it is like a visa card and if they say it is transferable, you got to pay a penalty fee and lo behold comes your real headaches.

Bottom line is this. They have way too many unknowns not covered to give one some sense of security, because now your talking big bucks. Big reason to stay out of getting one, and the other is this is so frigin new, it has no track record of stability or any value of what it is really worth. It has not been tested over time, to overcome any negatives that can torpedo this card and no safety valves set up in place in case it goes under. (ex>>> like the stock market has to prevent or slow down a potential crash itself)

Since it is owned by the Thai government, their financial situation is not that strong and they just got out of the IMF debt just recently. Another reason to be wary is the way the PM has been doing things in Thailand recently.

Too many red flags waving. Still wanna buy that card?????? Used or New??? Most will opt to buy new to avoid the float of such card and avoid a penalty involved. Only an idiot will buy the used card and risk it literally. Even on a new card right now it is way too risky for some peace of mind.

[Thaiquila]

Dave, well we are in agreement that there are too many red flags to buy it.

However, to clarify the current transfer policy (and Leslie might want to confirm this if he still wants to get involved after reading all these negative comments), yes I did mean 10 percent of the original value of the card when you bought the card. So, yes, 100K baht on the 1 million baht card.

However, on the idea of floating, I think the USED value is floating, but if you should buy a new card, it becomes a USED card immediately, so thus, any holder of the card whether original buyer or transfer buyer is subject to current market value with respect to the open market price (what it will sell for to a private party). I would imagine the original basis of a card with a history would be the ORIGINAL PRICE, but those are the kinds of details that the card company would need to make clear. Of course, the current price of a NEW CARD would have an impact on the value of a used card. For example, if you bought a card for 1 million and new cards are now going for 10 million, obviously it could likely fetch well over 1 million on the private market. So it is kind of like a speculative stock that way.

Anyway, Happy New Year!

[Pink Mist]

As Khun Leslie says it's an elite card for the elite, let them have it.

All this conjecture shouldn't arise it's the same as any expensive item if you have to ask the price you cant afford it.

In this case everyone is trying to justify why not to buy it, who cares I personally dont trust it because I dont trust politicians wherever they are and ultimately they control it's fate.

[Axel]

Davo Yo, who told you this thing is owned by the government? It is brainchild of our dear Khun Thaksin and run by TPC, a private company. I said b4, I am not going to do a company search, you may do it. The lovely thing, if TPC is successful it can go on and on, regardless who is the in government. If not, the government, present or futre, can wash it's hands in clean.

Transfer: Yes, you can sell your card against a fee of 10%. Once sold, of course you have no longer any rights.

Why would somebody want to buy a 'used card'?

Think of club management. If, and I say IF, the card is successful the club will stop accepting new members so prospective buyers have to look somewhere else.

The club's by laws mention that you can only become a member by invitation. At this moment, I dare to say, you put 25K (US) on the table and are invited. Generally, club management means, you apply to become a member, bring I or more members who sponsor you and you are a member, either by buying directly, or from another member, who wants to resign. Should the club refuse you, of course you don't lose your money that you do not pay.

As seller, you look for another, acceptable buyer.

So, if you trust in the card, buy it today at 1 million and sell it for 2 or more once the club stopped accepting new members. You have your profit, the club its transfer fee and no harm done, as the membership numbers don't increas. You are once sold. Another way, the value goes down, the company is still looking for membres at 1 or 2 million. You don't trust and sell for 500 K to save at least part of the money you paid.

Now my problem is, I am not convinced of the card being successful and nobody might want to buy it from me at cost or better.

Somebody, however, might want to buy it as a decorative item, never wishing to sell.

BTW, I am still member in another club in BKK. I paid Baht 150,000 back in 94.

Today you can become a mnember for 60,000. Anybody willing to pay me 300,00? You will become a founding member.

[Pink Mist]

Axel are you saying this company can over ride the Government with visa issues etc.?

[Axel]

Axel are you saying this company can over ride the Government with visa issues etc.?

No Bronco, the other way round. The company, as I see it as outsider, set some targets as helpful priviledges and negotiated with the concerned parties, i.e. Ministries for visa and land question. And, of course TG, clubs etc etc. .

So let's say they approached the government with the visa-idea and the Minister of Interior responded positively by issuing a notification to resp. immigratation rules.

This was done with approval of the Cabinet on 16 September 2003.

Section 17 of the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 gives the Minister of Interior such power, subject to Cabinet approval, or so, I believe.

Another example is the land priviledge. The company wants the rights for its members to acquire 10 Rai of land. This request was obviously denied by the government, means the company cannot override, however, they are now using the form of usufruct to go around the governments denial. Meanwhile, I hear they are still negotiating.

[Pink Mist]

Thats what I mean Axel at the end of the day it's up to the pollies.

How do you know when a politician is lying?

His lips are moving.

At the end of the day no 10 rai of land, maybe 5 year visa, these are the things that a lot of expats were initially interested in.

It's generating a lot of discussion here anyway.

regards

[Garry]

IT, it is one way of having a smooth ride into house/land ownership in Thailand inclusive of the card price, as compared to other parts of the world when purchasing property. When I look at it that way, the cards look viable on that alone, at it's current 1 double K price.

Happy new year, Garry

p.s. not all ideas are like mud guards...shiny on top, crapola underneath...

[Pink Mist]

the land issue isn't resolved yet garry

[Garry]

Oops, spoke too soon have I Bronco..I wait with baited breath..let's hope for a good resolution to this saga.

Cheers mate..

[Pink Mist]

Maybe when the price of card goes to 2mill the bait will be 20 rai and 10 year visa.

[Garry]

would make good bait for sure.......

[flackjacket]

Well, Well, Well, It looks as if the year 2004 is to be the year of more extortion !!

Has it not yet sunk into their thick skulls that the golden goose can only have its neck wrung so many times. If this were to get coverage in the World Media, Thailand would be the biggest laughing stock. As to LOS being a 1st world country soon , not in this milennium.

Stuck in "The Real World" having medical treatment, it is not comforting to have the nagging thought in the back of ones mind that one might not be allowed to retire to the house built in LOS (all money to Thailand) unless one can cough up X million baht.

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.

[DaveYo]

Clipped TOS.. Please note the pinned Terms of Service.. Whilst there maybe agreement, I will not tolerate endangering the board by naming the names.

[Adjan]

I'm swiss and now staying in Switzerland. Dave, don't think that it is so easy to hide money here.

I agree with you about what you said about PM. I don't forget that it was staying at tribunal since he was elected.

Adjan

[Adjan]

Sorry because of my poor english...

Please read ... he was staying at tribunal until he was elected.

[DaveYo]

What I was saying the money put into the Swiss Banks is kept a lot more confidential than most other banks around the world. They won't reveal how much you have in there unless there is absolute proof such was obtained illegally, and of course you still need a Swiss Court to allow the bank to open such data to others. Sort of gives the person an advance warning, and that person can have enough time to transfer it out of there before such is discovered. In USA, if they want to know how much you have, it is very easy to obtain. What I like about the Swiss protocols is, it is very hard to even get that information. They closely guard it because that is their reputation that they have been known for many years.

That is what I am talking about. In a sense, yes you can hide your funds there, and yes you also have to pay a certain fee for this kind of privacy. That much I do know. This fee is based on the amount you have deposited into that bank.

So your Swiss, nice to have met ya. I am sure if you asked around over there, I do believe they will tell you that much. Unless they have changed their policies of late that I am not aware of at present time????????

Daveyoti

[DaveYo]

Also it is a known fact that the Swiss Banks for years and years held Nazi Gold, paintings and whatever else there was including Hitlers own personal bank account. It wasn't until recently like the last 10 years or so that they finally opened that part and released it to compensate the victims of WW2, after numerous and numerous debates, court hearings etc.

Also money was kept there from the Marcos Regime. There was a huge fight on getting the Swiss Bank to release it and open up the records as to how much was in there. To this day no one knows the real amount that the Marcos regime kept in those banks.

That is the point I am talking about. They fight to keep your records of your money confidential and out of prying eyes. I would think the only time they will not touch it is if such was obtained via drug money and or money laundering etc. That I can understand. Remember that is a Bank. And these banks hold a lot of power over the world. They can stand up to any Government if they wish. But again, the Swiss is the best that I know of in protecting your privacy especially your money.

The Thailand banks are nothing compared to a Swiss bank, and one cannot ever say the American banks can ever match the way the Swiss do it. No contest. Swiss come out way on top.

Daveyoti

[Adjan]

You're right again, Dave. But if any problem becomes to be known, the money is soon locked.

Anyway, I don't think that PM or any company will make such big money with that elite card.

[Axel]

Axel  who do you think the PM Thaskin is????????    To me he is the Government!!!!!!!!!!!!  It is his idea, so obviously he gets the lions share of the proceeds of the cards sales.

Hey Dave, he is the PM and sure I think rak (hope this is not a f-word) him.

Clipped...TOS

As for Swiss banks, today you can't trust them anymore. You cannot open a numbered account without disclosing to the bank your identity. Switzerland has been under fire among others by people looking for Marcos' money and finally agreed to have the banks co-operate. OK, this is for isolated cases, drugs, international arrest orders etc. So, if they find Saddam had a pettie-cash-account the Swiss banks would freeze it and than wait for a final court decision a few decades later.

[Guest IT Manager]

Cannot you read between the lines. If you transfer this card to someone else, you have to cough up another 100,000 baht, since the value of the card is 1M. If it goes to 2M then it is 200K baht. The buyer does not pay the 100K, or the 200K, the original owner does to the company and government. That is your penalty fee.

Floating it???? That is suicide. First it is 1M, and if the value of that card goes down say 500K, what good is it? What are they trying to do with this card. Play the stock market with it now????? So if it goes down, who suffers the loss?????? You got it, the owner of the used card. Besides, who do you know right this instant who got 25K or 50K to drop into your pants pocket to get that card right now? Why would anyone want to risk buying a used card knowing it is going to float when they can buy the new card and it won't float???????

Keep in mind, the Thailand Government is out hunting for people who got money. 200 only right now and they launched this card in October not November. Ok say you find someone, don't forget this buyer has to meet their criteria financial wise and background wise. Oh, la la la la etc and what not that they also do not tell you. More headaches than it is worth. What happens if they reject the buyer?? There goes your money. Do you get a refund if they refuse your buyer???? and if you sell what happens to your priviledges from that point on. I suppose that too gets null and voided.

That official who said it can be transferred (if you noticed) in so few words does not really tell you what is actually behind the scheme of things. If they see a lot of this taking place, sure the government and the card company are going to reap in the extra 100K or 200K in their pockets and if it floats out like a boat, all it will take is a direct hit from some torpedo and vamoosa, comes down its value. One will lose plenty money on a used card with no chance to recover the loss. At least in the stock market you can bail out of some stock that is losing money on an instant if your alert. You cannot do that on this card.

Who is going to buy the used card knowing it is going to actually float like the dollar does? Imagine, 500K one day, 3M the next and perhaps 2M the following day, up and down like a yo yo. Ahhhhhhhh, I got better things to do besides having to worry about the value of my used card daily. Say it goes up 3M and now you find someone who got 75K USA dollars to drop in your pants, you better get the approval the same day instantly and pay them 300K on top of it before the value drops so you can at least stand to make any money on the deal.

So who is the one who's got their screws on backwards. One part they know they came out ahead on the deal any which way you look at it. To them they could care less of you, they can take their sweet time making the decision etc, and as you wait you see the value dropping by the hour and you can start to cry then.

Daveyoti

That is why I said it is like a visa card and if they say it is transferable, you got to pay a penalty fee and lo behold comes your real headaches.

Bottom line is this. They have way too many unknowns not covered to give one some sense of security, because now your talking big bucks. Big reason to stay out of getting one, and the other is this is so frigin new, it has no track record of stability or any value of what it is really worth. It has not been tested over time, to overcome any negatives that can torpedo this card and no safety valves set up in place in case it goes under. (ex>>> like the stock market has to prevent or slow down a potential crash itself)

Since it is owned by the Thai government, their financial situation is not that strong and they just got out of the IMF debt just recently. Another reason to be wary is the way the PM has been doing things in Thailand recently.

Too many red flags waving. Still wanna buy that card?????? Used or New??? Most will opt to buy new to avoid the float of such card and avoid a penalty involved. Only an idiot will buy the used card and risk it literally. Even on a new card right now it is way too risky for some peace of mind.

I am thoughtful about the following, but will say this. Daveyo has stayed out of visa information gathering until now.

Most of what you have said about the card is plain wrong Dave, as usual. Main point is sale of the card is not only possible, it's easy. The vetting of cardholders is on one thing only, and I have seen the application.

"Sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 2 years or more, or with outstanding warrants, known about by Interpol"

Nothing about financial vetting, the fact that you can pay for the card is enough. At sale, the buyer is subject to the same vetting.

I am of the firm belief that your knowledge of the finance market is minimal bordering on non-existent, as is your first hand knowledge of living in LoS.

I personally would appreciate you not blathering about things of which you have proven yourself to have no knowledge...

[markoinbangkok]

Oh, well did it ever occur to any of you, the Elite card cannot be sold privately to someone else. Are you people that Naive??????

First when you get that card it is registered to your name to the Government. Comprende, and the Government is the one giving you the benefits. Now you sell that card to someone else, the card becomes null and voided. Comprende

Cannot you read between the lines. If you transfer this card to someone else, you have to cough up another 100,000 baht, since the value of the card is 1M. If it goes to 2M then it is 200K baht. The buyer does not pay the 100K, or the 200K, the original owner does to the company and government. That is your penalty fee.

No, I don't 'comprende'! You are clearly insane!

[DaveYo]

Well, lets put it like this. If both of you think the card is worth your while, then get it. Why you defend the card is beyond me, and then tell me I am wrong. PROVE ME WRONG. I think you both are wishing you had it in your hands, or is a wanna be to have one. I think you don't see the other side of it that is hidden. If you believe what they say>>>>>> then go for it. Me, I will just sit by and watch and see what happens. Eventually (if you both get it) will be sweating from the eyebrows. I don't trust a hooters of that Elite card, and I stand by what I said. Too many unknowns, too many red flags . Extremely very risky.

Yes I stayed out of the Visa. Why, not worth my time. For you to say I don't know what is going on. Ok, you go first buy it and prove me wrong. Then try selling it. See how long it will take you. I think like the Americans do which is the correct way. If I invest my money in something I want to invest it where it makes sense and is the least of risk. To me the Elite card is like Chernobyl in Russia. Apparently those in Thailand think differently and maybe one has lost touch with reality of the rest of us here abroad. Maybe that is why many in Thailand think we are naive and (of course) many like playing the same game on us outsiders. Just like they did with the visa stamps, many fell right for it lock stock and barrel. I rest my case.

Some of you are in fact owners of businesess. Why don't you people buy the card, and show us how stable it is. Ok. You make the big bucks owning businesses, buy the card if you defend it so much. Take the risk. If any of you defenders of the card got the guts to do it. OK You seem to have no doubts of this card >>>> am I right or wrong.

I have DOUBTS of this card, and when in DOUBT, that is when I step aside and QUESTION such. Being careful is wisdom, not wrong or stupidity or ignorant.

Here is an old saying>>>> Condemnation without proper investigation or asking questions shows ignorance.

So you condemn me for being wrong when I sternly question this card and of the little facts so given from the promoters themselves. If you believe everything they tell you>>>>>>>>>> I do pity you.

Oh good luck

Daveyoti

[Axel]

Dave, I might agree to IT M and markoinbangkok to the extent of 'no comprende'.

You are running wildly in a round house punch, no facts not even fiction, just ...

well what? I don't know.

Swiss Banks for years and years held Nazi Gold, paintings and whatever else there was including Hitlers own personal bank account.

Also money was kept there from the Marcos Regime. Thaskin is???????? To me he is the Government!!!!!!!!!!!! It is his idea, so obviously he gets the lions share of the proceeds of the cards sales. There is no Bank in Thailand that has ownership rights to this card so it is not a Bank Card. There is an outsider Bank and its Malaysia!!!!!

Hitler and Marcos in Switzerland, Great, what have these two to do with the Elite-card? Except, somebody in here hinted, Elite died and is no more.

T. to get the lion share. How did you find out about this?

Great and new to me an outsider bank in Malaysia? You must have insider information beyond everybody else's resources.

I did study this thing, for my own interest. Posted a report after my visit to the sales agent in Bangkok (Aktiv Co) and, before posting anything in Thai Visa study the facts. For ex. on the visa regulation I read the Ministerial rulings. For any other comment I compare with TPC-application and prospectus, both in front of my nose.

One might be for the card, one, like me, against it. But before you post such lengthy nonsense, get your facts together. For me now it is easy: "T. gets the lion share of the card, which is launched through a Malaysia-bank." My source Dave Yo. But how do you explain your source?

And no, I don't think the card will be a success, but let's be fair in explainig this.

[capitalinvestment]

I wouldn't touch this card with a barge pole. Yet, another scam in beautiful Thailand, to milk the farang. Where are the guarantees? Can Thais be trusted?. A very clever scheme for the... gullible, me thinks.

Each to their own I guess...

[Guest IT Manager]

Well, lets put it like this. If both of you think the card is worth your while, then get it. Why you defend the card is beyond me, and then tell me I am wrong. PROVE ME WRONG. I think you both are wishing you had it in your hands, or is a wanna be to have one. I think you don't see the other side of it that is hidden. If you believe what they say>>>>>> then go for it. Me, I will just sit by and watch and see what happens. Eventually (if you both get it) will be sweating from the eyebrows. I don't trust a hooters of that Elite card, and I stand by what I said. Too many unknowns, too many red flags . Extremely very risky.

Yes I stayed out of the Visa. Why, not worth my time. For you to say I don't know what is going on. Ok, you go first buy it and prove me wrong. Then try selling it. See how long it will take you. I think like the Americans do which is the correct way. If I invest my money in something I want to invest it where it makes sense and is the least of risk. To me the Elite card is like Chernobyl in Russia. Apparently those in Thailand think differently and maybe one has lost touch with reality of the rest of us here abroad. Maybe that is why many in Thailand think we are naive and (of course) many like playing the same game on us outsiders. Just like they did with the visa stamps, many fell right for it lock stock and barrel. I rest my case.

Some of you are in fact owners of businesess. Why don't you people buy the card, and show us how stable it is. Ok. You make the big bucks owning businesses, buy the card if you defend it so much. Take the risk. If any of you defenders of the card got the guts to do it. OK You seem to have no doubts of this card >>>> am I right or wrong.

I have DOUBTS of this card, and when in DOUBT, that is when I step aside and QUESTION such. Being careful is wisdom, not wrong or stupidity or ignorant.

Here is an old saying>>>> Condemnation without proper investigation or asking questions shows ignorance.

So you condemn me for being wrong when I sternly question this card and of the little facts so given from the promoters themselves. If you believe everything they tell you>>>>>>>>>> I do pity you.

Oh good luck

Daveyoti

Dave...Mate... it's like this. I don't have one. I don't want one. I think it is at least as questionable as gold in caves. Just as believeable too.

This forum is about information. Actual facts. Not extremely very, but real investigated, researched, facts.

I didn't question the perspicacity of the card, merely the accuracy of your post.

######.

[bangkokblue]

'Gold in caves' Thank's for the diversion IT, the facts are i've got the genuine map and i'll gladly hand it over in exchange for one of these card thingee's and 24 bottles of chang.

[Axel]

and I have seen the application.

"Sentenced to a term of imprisonment of 2 years or more, or with outstanding warrants, known about by Interpol"

IT M, I picked only a small part knowing you do check the whole thing.

Where did you get the 2 years from? The explantions I have do read:

(among others)

"Never been sentenced for more than 6 months"

There is another one, if you really want to buy the card this Qualifiaction stops you:

"Not an unsound mind or incompetent."

Now if this is not a Catch 22 situation.