Tsunami Of Wikileaks Has Hit Thailand

[hammered]

Wikileaks don't give a one sided view, they give every view they have. They don't decide what to publish and what not to publish. If someone from any country leaks info to them they publish it. Hardly their fault it is only the US govt at this stage. I'm sure others will follow.

By the way, for those that have wondered what Assange does with the money etc, they are a non profit organisation.

Lao Pro, yes I believe many posters have been 'bashing' you yet I continually see you state that you would be just as happy had Wikileaks leaked documents from other countries as well. I guess the other posters just follow like sheep and no amount of common sense will change their mind.

It is a one sided view because the reader is not aware of all the events and facts that led up to the document published. Yes, the cables paint a grim view of money funding terrorists via Kuwait, Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia. What they do not provide is background information where Kuwait said the US claims were unconvincing.and its laws just didn't allow for the draconian measures proposed. Having the other side of the issue puts things in perspective. The wikileaks haven't achieved any good have they? So far, all the documentation from the middle east in respect to Iran makes the arab countries out to be closet zionists. And yet, do you think that information will change any of the bigoted people resident in TVF? It's as if I went into your medical file and pulled out the info from 2001-2002. Without knowing that came before and that followed that period, it really wouldn't help anyone now. Information has to be put in context. Mr. Assange and his cronies have not published anything from Russia or China or Iran or Arab countries have they? Think about it. While your gnawing at the legs of Uncle Sam, Mr. Chan is getting ready to eat you.

If someone goes into my medical file and publishes info form a certain period I will respond by making the full file available.

Nobody is stopping the US from responding to allegations and its own cables.

Wikileaks will as it gets the stuff hopefully publish it from other countries. It is good to note that now they receive a lot from the US showing the spirit of openess and freedom is very much alive among the people of the US rather than the government and the "security apparatus". It remains to be seen what coporate cables will contain but somewhere in this lot remians something that has set off a few people with power that even a bunch of human rights abuses and murders couldnt and that often signals pecuniary interests rather than mere people ones

[TAWP]

... why isn't Wikileaks releasing all kinds of information about the abuses in places like Iran, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, Burma and other rogue nations?

Because they don't have it.

Or alternatively ... they are making absolutely no effort to seek it out, possibly because they are sympathetic and have no axe to grind or they are being sponsored in whole or in part.

They don't seek *any* information out, since they need to stay in a chain of handling to 'clean' the information.

Again, if you guys had any idea of the process or knew anyone, even remotely, involved, you would know this. Or if you stopped watching only *some* news-channels and broadened your horizon...

[TAWP]

The people that complain now are the same people that complained about Al Jazeera showing Osama Bin Laden's video tapes and wanted them shut down [and in some cases bombed]...

[flying]

So, Mr. Flying, are you saying if somebody is stealing information from an entity you personally disagree with, it is acceptable? Please clarify your position.

What about the intellectual piracy mentioned in my post above. Do you object to that?

What does the Patriot Act have to do with any of this?

1) I never mentioned anything I personally agree with or dont as having a bearing...

But, if the entity is having a negative/unlawful effect on the world yes it is as acceptable as any other method that uncovered it now or later.

2) I did not read your post nor comment on it...nor do I intend to..As I would never consider uncovering crimes against humanity a theft of intellectual property

3) The patriot act was mentioned for its similarity to what folks like you are complaining about. It goes uninvited under the pretense of national security

into what was previously personal information...once protected by constitutional rights that are now trampled.

Yet they do not like the same being done to them. Yet they claim,,,in their case...it is what is needed to protect or to intercept evil.

Well tearing down some of this culvert BS is probably doing more to combat evil then they ever will.

Gnite

Edited December 6, 2010 by flying

[hammered]

... why isn't Wikileaks releasing all kinds of information about the abuses in places like Iran, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela, Burma and other rogue nations?

Because they don't have it.

Or alternatively ... they are making absolutely no effort to seek it out, possibly because they are sympathetic and have no axe to grind or they are being sponsored in whole or in part.

They don't seek *any* information out, since they need to stay in a chain of handling to 'clean' the information.

Again, if you guys had any idea of the process or knew anyone, even remotely, involved, you would know this. Or if you stopped watching only *some* news-channels and broadened your horizon...

Good post.

[Ulysses G.]

The people that complain now are the same people that complained about Al Jazeera showing Osama Bin Laden's video tapes and wanted them shut down [and in some cases bombed]...

That is because there were strong indications that those tapes were coded in a way to order terrorist attacks. I guess that is supposed to be "free speech" too?

[chuckd]

So, Mr. Flying, are you saying if somebody is stealing information from an entity you personally disagree with, it is acceptable? Please clarify your position.

What about the intellectual piracy mentioned in my post above. Do you object to that?

What does the Patriot Act have to do with any of this?

1) I never mentioned anything I personally agree with or dont as having a bearing...

But, if the entity is having a negative/unlawful effect on the world yes it is as acceptable as any other method that uncovered it now or later.

2) I did not read your post nor comment on it...nor do I intend to..As I would never consider uncovering crimes against humanity a theft of intellectual property

3) The patriot act was mentioned for its similarity to what folks like you are complaining about. It goes uninvited under the pretense of national security

into what was previously personal information...once protected by constitutional rights that are now trampled.

Yet they do not like the same being done to them. Yet they claim,,,in their case...it is what is needed to protect or to intercept evil.

Well tearing down some of this culvert BS is probably doing more to combat evil then they ever will.

Gnite

1. Who determines the "negative/unlawful effect on the world"? Do you make up your own mind or do you blindly follow something like the UN or moveon.org?

2. If you didn't read my post, how do you know it was about the theft of intellectual property?

3. You do realize that every time you enter a foreign country, you give up your Bill of Rights and Constitutional protection, don't you? Just jumping across the Rio Grande will take them away from you. You aren't even covered when you come to Thailand.

What is "culvert BS"?

[Spee]

...or they are being sponsored in whole or in part.

The spooky dude, George Soros!

One among many, yes.

[TAWP]

The people that complain now are the same people that complained about Al Jazeera showing Osama Bin Laden's video tapes and wanted them shut down [and in some cases bombed]...

That is because there were strong indications that those tapes were coded in a way to order terrorist attacks. I guess that is supposed to be "free speech" too?

Never indicated, never proven - but claimed by those that oppose of the 1st Amendment I am sure...

Why are you so anti-American?

[Ulysses G.]

Wrong again.

Why do you have to resort to personal attacks when we have been warned not to do it repeatedly?

Bin Laden video could have contained coded instructions

By Ben Fenton in Washington 12:01AM BST 15 Oct 2001 THE FBI believes Osama bin Laden may have sent a secret message in a video shown worldwide last week, aimed at triggering a second round of terrorist attacks in America.

Other sources said yesterday that American intelligence has evidence that leaders of bin Laden's al-Qa'eda network have placed at least four telephone calls to numbers in America since the September 11 attacks.

FBI counter-terrorism experts are now concentrating on the threat from chemical tankers and other hazardous materials carried by road amid fears that terrorists may have trained to drive them in America.

http://www.telegraph...structions.html

Edited December 6, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[hammered]

Wrong again.

Why do you have to resort to personal attacks when we have been warned not to do it repeatedly?

Bin Laden video could have contained coded instructions

By Ben Fenton in Washington 12:01AM BST 15 Oct 2001 THE FBI believes Osama bin Laden may have sent a secret message in a video shown worldwide last week, aimed at triggering a second round of terrorist attacks in America.

Other sources said yesterday that American intelligence has evidence that leaders of bin Laden's al-Qa'eda network have placed at least four telephone calls to numbers in America since the September 11 attacks.

FBI counter-terrorism experts are now concentrating on the threat from chemical tankers and other hazardous materials carried by road amid fears that terrorists may have trained to drive them in America.

http://www.telegraph...structions.html

Many a "may" and "could" too. Sounds like poor reporting pandering to the Telegraphs paranoia filled right wing readership

[SweeneyAgonistes]

So 'strong indications' are actually 9-year-old speculations from a nursing home cat-tray-filler which interestingly contains a bunch of other speculations which failed to materialise. Good work.

[Ulysses G.]

Some folks do not seem to understand the concept of "coded" messages.

[hammered]

Some folks do not seem to understand the concept of "coded" messages.

Some folks do not understand the nuances of "may" and "could" and media pandering to their markets

[Ulysses G.]

Some folks do not understand the meaning of "indications".

[hammered]

But some people do understand the meaning of freedom although unfortunately it doesnt include the governments of any of our countries or their security apparatus

[LaoPo]

Wikileaks don't give a one sided view, they give every view they have. They don't decide what to publish and what not to publish. If someone from any country leaks info to them they publish it. Hardly their fault it is only the US govt at this stage. I'm sure others will follow.

By the way, for those that have wondered what Assange does with the money etc, they are a non profit organisation.

Lao Pro, yes I believe many posters have been 'bashing' you yet I continually see you state that you would be just as happy had Wikileaks leaked documents from other countries as well. I guess the other posters just follow like sheep and no amount of common sense will change their mind.

Correct.

LaoPo

[hammered]

Wikileaks don't give a one sided view, they give every view they have. They don't decide what to publish and what not to publish. If someone from any country leaks info to them they publish it. Hardly their fault it is only the US govt at this stage. I'm sure others will follow.

By the way, for those that have wondered what Assange does with the money etc, they are a non profit organisation.

Lao Pro, yes I believe many posters have been 'bashing' you yet I continually see you state that you would be just as happy had Wikileaks leaked documents from other countries as well. I guess the other posters just follow like sheep and no amount of common sense will change their mind.

Correct.

LaoPo

A very commendable line too

[LaoPo]

Some folks do not seem to understand the concept of "coded" messages.

The coded/encrypted ones, available to 3 million readers?

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Wikileaks don't give a one sided view, they give every view they have. They don't decide what to publish and what not to publish. If someone from any country leaks info to them they publish it. Hardly their fault it is only the US govt at this stage. I'm sure others will follow.

By the way, for those that have wondered what Assange does with the money etc, they are a non profit organisation.

Lao Pro, yes I believe many posters have been 'bashing' you yet I continually see you state that you would be just as happy had Wikileaks leaked documents from other countries as well. I guess the other posters just follow like sheep and no amount of common sense will change their mind.

Correct.

LaoPo

A very commendable line too

Care to explain?

LaoPo

[Ulysses G.]

But some people do understand the meaning of freedom although unfortunately it doesnt include the governments of any of our countries or their security apparatus

Up the system mon.

[philw]

Some folks do not seem to understand the concept of "coded" messages.

Probably now there are coded terrorism messages in MTV, BBC. AJ and telletubbies.....( they are subliminal pro Europe messages in the last...........)

Fairly unlikely I think that a partially coherent, undated message from a looney in a cave is going to unleash a wave of Stuka's / Missiles / North Koreans or whatever over the USA..........

The worlds most hunted man, still not found.

More elusive than Diana's ghost.

I would start questioning where your tax dollars have gone.

[Ulysses G.]

Some folks do not seem to understand the concept of "coded" messages.

The coded/encrypted ones, available to 3 million readers?

LaoPo

Somebody need to go back and read the thread that they are supposed to be "responding" to.

[Wallaby]

So, Mr. Flying, are you saying if somebody is stealing information from an entity you personally disagree with, it is acceptable? Please clarify your position.

What about the intellectual piracy mentioned in my post above. Do you object to that?

What does the Patriot Act have to do with any of this?

1) I never mentioned anything I personally agree with or dont as having a bearing...

But, if the entity is having a negative/unlawful effect on the world yes it is as acceptable as any other method that uncovered it now or later.

2) I did not read your post nor comment on it...nor do I intend to..As I would never consider uncovering crimes against humanity a theft of intellectual property

3) The patriot act was mentioned for its similarity to what folks like you are complaining about. It goes uninvited under the pretense of national security

into what was previously personal information...once protected by constitutional rights that are now trampled.

Yet they do not like the same being done to them. Yet they claim,,,in their case...it is what is needed to protect or to intercept evil.

Well tearing down some of this culvert BS is probably doing more to combat evil then they ever will.

Gnite

1. Who determines the "negative/unlawful effect on the world"? Do you make up your own mind or do you blindly follow something like the UN or moveon.org?

2. If you didn't read my post, how do you know it was about the theft of intellectual property?

3. You do realize that every time you enter a foreign country, you give up your Bill of Rights and Constitutional protection, don't you? Just jumping across the Rio Grande will take them away from you. You aren't even covered when you come to Thailand.

What is "culvert BS"?

Australia does not have a Bill of Rights, nor constitutional freedom of speech. Constitutional protection is something the government picks and choses to use whenever it feels the urge. So going to Thailand doesn't really cause me to lose much.

[jdinasia]

Maybe it's just your reading skills that is the problem

Err, no. I don't think so:

If a terrorist is "A person, group, or organization that uses violent action, or the threat of violent action, to further political goals...in an attempt to coerce either a more powerful or ... a weaker opponent", then that includes pretty much any state.

and if a conspiracy is "To try to make things go a certain way", then that includes pretty much any intentional action.

Not particularly useful definitions.

FARC gets the label terrorist group (and drug runners too ... what a combo!)

A "conspiracy to sell weapons to a terrorist group" would have become "Selling weapons to a terrorist group" had the money and weapons changed hands. Similarly conspiracy to commit murder for hire (planning the illegal killing of someone with at least one other person) only becomes murder for hire when the deed is done. It would have been nice had they arranged to nab bout for "selling" and not conspiracy to sell, but the chances of him being at the point of sale probably approaches 0 %

*note --- giving material support before the crime can also be considered conspiracy. Helping to cover the crime up or giving material support after the crime is accessory after the fact and is also illegal in most places.

** diplomacy of the sword may indeed be considered terrorism depending on who wins, but most governments don't tend to threaten violent action (but history would show us that almost every government is guilty of violent action against others (or even their own citizens.)

[philw]

But some people do understand the meaning of freedom although unfortunately it doesnt include the governments of any of our countries or their security apparatus

Sadly I think you are correct.

[philw]

Wrong again.

Why do you have to resort to personal attacks when we have been warned not to do it repeatedly?

Bin Laden video could have contained coded instructions

By Ben Fenton in Washington 12:01AM BST 15 Oct 2001 THE FBI believes Osama bin Laden may have sent a secret message in a video shown worldwide last week, aimed at triggering a second round of terrorist attacks in America.

Other sources said yesterday that American intelligence has evidence that leaders of bin Laden's al-Qa'eda network have placed at least four telephone calls to numbers in America since the September 11 attacks.

FBI counter-terrorism experts are now concentrating on the threat from chemical tankers and other hazardous materials carried by road amid fears that terrorists may have trained to drive them in America.

http://www.telegraph...structions.html

Many a "may" and "could" too. Sounds like poor reporting pandering to the Telegraphs paranoia filled right wing readership

Other sources said yesterday that American intelligence has evidence that leaders of bin Laden's al-Qa'eda network have placed at least four telephone calls to numbers in America since the September 11 attacks.

WOW, 4 phone calls in about 9 years......

Who propagates this rubbish ?

[Ulysses G.]

By Ben Fenton in Washington 12:01AM BST 15 Oct 2001

[wolf5370]

...

Of course Thailand will pay attention to it's larger trading partners and of course they will not pay attention to Thailand. Big fish eat little fish.

Thailand is a very small country in population, geographical size, and economic import. Thailand works because of the good will of its larger stronger partners. You know that. Why would you make a comment so silly as to expect a quid pro quo relationship between foreign ministers between Thailand and the US.

On this basis, that being that the biggest kid in the yard at any point, that can bloody the nose of any of the rest (although not all at once perhaps) and thus can get away with demanding their lunch money, that no one should complain about the satatus offairs and they should all touch their toes and submit to a good rogering? This may be a "turning worm" in a few years when there is more political and ecconomic milage in China pulling those debt strings of the US. Remember, no one stays the big bully for long and America may well be seeing the end of its turn (as did the imperial powers that came and went since biblical times up to the fall of the the British Empire perhaps).

The world has changed and as we once saw with ther axis versus the allies, the creation of the UN and NATO, the EU (even the Union of States in the USA) as time goes by we are more inclined to group together to oppose the bully for group vested interests and cooperation - against this no one power can really reach the hegemony of ultimate state any more. Too many countries poissess the power to anialate us all to make it much of a threat either - what idiot would actually press that button now? certainly no ecconomic giant wth so much to loose.

What you say is reality, this I understand, but perhaps it is an outdated reality that may not be a reality in the near future - especially as India and China are becoming more powerful, are nearer and possibly more polite, trading partners. Is the USA in danger of te same attack that is thrown on Britain time and again - stop hanging on to the old imperial predilections that you are the world's most powerful ecconomic and military super-power, those days have gone, get over it and stop making threats that will cost you more than us. Maybe its not there yet, but maybe it is coming. maybe other big fish have the same items on their lunch menu and maybe they are in a better position to buy it or bully a better price.

[Piengrudee]

As Tsunami is bad, let just ban Wikileaks Thailand.