WikiLeaks website again offline after company cuts DNS service

[JUDAS]

[i wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

Would that be the same Europe that produced Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin and their hateful dictatorships?

And the very people you have mentioned UG, through their push for power at the cost of millions of lives, may well explain why Europeans are somewhat reluctant to go to war but, prefer to exhaust all other diplomatic routes first. War on ones own door step tends to temper ones approach to conflict, for many more generations to come, I hope. The memory of war, I believe, promotes democracy, my opinion of course.

[mark45y]

[i wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

Would that be the same Europe that produced Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin and their hateful dictatorships?

Banned from entering the UK

In 2005, the Dutch public expressed mixed reactions to Wilders' general agenda, with 53% calling it "implausible" and 47% more supportive.

On 15 December 2007, Wilders was declared "Politician of the Year" by NOS-radio, a mainstream Dutch radio station

In December 2009, Wilders came in second in two polls in the Netherlands for Politician of the Year. A panel of Dutch television viewers praised him as "the second best" politician this year

Wilders generally considers himself to be a libertarian.

[philw]

[i wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

Would that be the same Europe that produced Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin and their hateful dictatorships?

You are getting uglier.........

And, yes it is the same Europe.

[elcent]

UNDERGROUND

Hacking, madness and obsession on the electronic frontier

‘Gripping, eminently readable.. Dreyfus has uncovered one of this

country’s best kept secrets and in doing so has created a highly

intense and enjoyable read’ -- Rolling Stone

By Suelette Dreyfus with

Research by Julian Assange

download it here (free only membership required) good read

[JUDAS]

Interesting poll result from The Guardian. I don't have any great faith in polls, posted for your information, or, some may say entertainment. http://www.guardian....-frozen-account

by all the polls running around the globe it appears the majority of the people support it. I guess the only people on the planet that are against is the Yanks. The world against America, go figure.

Actually SG, to be fair I could find very few poll results since the latest round of leaks.

[mark45y]

Interesting poll result from The Guardian. I don't have any great faith in polls, posted for your information, or, some may say entertainment. http://www.guardian....-frozen-account

by all the polls running around the globe it appears the majority of the people support it. I guess the only people on the planet that are against is the Yanks. The world against America, go figure.

You made a claim. "by all the polls running around the globe it appears the majority of the people support it" Now back it up. If you can't please qualify further claims by IMO.

[geriatrickid]

Would that mean that the people on TV shows etc in the US asking for Assange to be assasinated can be extradited to wherever Assange is living and be charged with inciting murder?

Possibly, but since Assange has alienated most civilized nations, it is doubtful that any of them would bother - considering the expense.

Public figures in the US, calling upon murder and assassination should be prosecuted and jailed within the US immediately as they are "poisoning" the American young brains with their television calls for the same barbaric "solutions".

I can hear it already....."If those high-so guys can call for murder and assassination why can't we, brother?"

No wonder your country has the highest number of prisoners in the entire world.

LaoPo

The calls for murder and assassination have ben condemned and rebuked by responsible authorities and leaders. The expression of such sentiments is a byproduct of a relatively free society where people are allowed to express their views. It isn't any different than the Westboro cult protesting outside soldier's funerals celebrating the death or when some people congregate in major US cities calling for jihad against the USA or others call for the death of Obama or Bush. The actions are deplorable and offensive, but the views expressed are protected by freedom of expression until a crime is committed. If you or anyone believes a crime has occurred, please make a complaint and have charges brought.

The comment about incarceration is bogus. One of the reasons the US numbers are inflated is that there is a large number of illegal immigrants included in the numbers. As well, the US has been the dumping ground for thousands upon thousands of foreign criminals. If the US sends these people back they will cause havoc in their homelands. In other situations, the incarceration is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of some segments of the US population. However, rather than identify a specific ethnic group, the PC thing is to pretend it is not a factor.

[whybother]

Interesting poll result from The Guardian. I don't have any great faith in polls, posted for your information, or, some may say entertainment. http://www.guardian....-frozen-account

by all the polls running around the globe it appears the majority of the people support it. I guess the only people on the planet that are against is the Yanks. The world against America, go figure.

You made a claim. "by all the polls running around the globe it appears the majority of the people support it" Now back it up. If you can't please qualify further claims by IMO.

A few people in Australia seem to support it ... http://www.theage.com.au/national/us-refused-cable-access-to-canberra-20101209-18rf3.html

[LaoPo]

[i wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

Would that be the same Europe that produced Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin and their hateful dictatorships?

What a silly totally off-topic remark.

That was a long time ago: the first one committed suicide, the coward....the second was hanged upside down .......and the third one died under mysterious circumstances, possibly poisened.

All three represented evil and death and you are cmparing that with nowadays Europe ?

BTW, quite a strange remark by someone who probably has great-great grandparents coming from the same "old" world.

What is it with you that you can't discuss a topic properly without bringing weird twists to the topic ?

Wasn't it you who accused me of spinning?

LaoPo

[elcent]

Would that mean that the people on TV shows etc in the US asking for Assange to be assasinated can be extradited to wherever Assange is living and be charged with inciting murder?

Possibly, but since Assange has alienated most civilized nations, it is doubtful that any of them would bother - considering the expense.

Public figures in the US, calling upon murder and assassination should be prosecuted and jailed within the US immediately as they are "poisoning" the American young brains with their television calls for the same barbaric "solutions".

I can hear it already....."If those high-so guys can call for murder and assassination why can't we, brother?"

No wonder your country has the highest number of prisoners in the entire world.

LaoPo

The calls for murder and assassination have ben condemned and rebuked by responsible authorities and leaders. The expression of such sentiments is a byproduct of a relatively free society where people are allowed to express their views. It isn't any different than the Westboro cult protesting outside soldier's funerals celebrating the death or when some people congregate in major US cities calling for jihad against the USA or others call for the death of Obama or Bush. The actions are deplorable and offensive, but the views expressed are protected by freedom of expression until a crime is committed. If you or anyone believes a crime has occurred, please make a complaint and have charges brought.

The comment about incarceration is bogus. One of the reasons the US numbers are inflated is that there is a large number of illegal immigrants included in the numbers. As well, the US has been the dumping ground for thousands upon thousands of foreign criminals. If the US sends these people back they will cause havoc in their homelands. In other situations, the incarceration is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of some segments of the US population. However, rather than identify a specific ethnic group, the PC thing is to pretend it is not a factor.

are you aware that the Canadian professor and adviser to the PM will be sued by ABC News where he called for the murder of Julian Asssange?

[AsiaCheese]

under US law maybe but Australian citizens are not bound by US laws if they did not comit an offence in the US. The yanks and thier so called little laws have no jurisdiction in Australia even tho most Americans may think they do.

Sounds like a fairly valid & interesting argument to me!

[whybother]

under US law maybe but Australian citizens are not bound by US laws if they did not comit an offence in the US. The yanks and thier so called little laws have no jurisdiction in Australia even tho most Americans may think they do.

Sounds like a fairly valid & interesting argument to me!

It didn't help Bout.

As far as the US is concerned, you don't have to be in the US to break their laws.

Not that Assange has broken any US laws inside or outside the US.

[AsiaCheese]

...

The calls for murder and assassination have ben condemned and rebuked by responsible authorities and leaders. The expression of such sentiments is a byproduct of a relatively free society where people are allowed to express their views.

...

Well, I vaguely remember hearing calls to roughly that extent from US Gov't members... What "people" say in a free society is one thing, but politicos and journos on nationally (correction: internationally) broadcasted TV stations has a completely different bearing and effect!

[chuckd]

How many editors and publishers from the New York Times were executed after publishing the PENTAGON PAPERS; and what about Daniel Ellsberg...?

LaoPo

Uh, Mr. Lao Po. I know much of your position relies on the Pentagon Papers and Daniel Ellsberg but you do realize laws can be passed, rewritten, amended and altered between 1969 and 2010. What was applicable in 1969 might not be applicable in today's world.

I realize you probably have the Pentagon Papers on speed dial but you might want to reconsider your position and come up with something a little more recent. Perhaps even something related to the 21st century..

But then, what do I know? I'm just a dumb old country boy from West Texas.

I doubt -VERY much- you are a dumb old country boy from West Texas, Cuckd.

You're right that laws could have been rewritten, amended and altered since the PENTAGON PAPERS but the principle is still exactly the same.

There were/are Whistleblowers then and now with the only difference that Daniel Ellsberg single handedly copied 7.000 documents one-by-one on a Xerox machine and than handed by him personally to the New York Times and the documents from WikiLeaks were anonymously sent to them and than forwarded to exactly the same New York Times.

The principle is still the same but I am quite surprised by the enormous attention now, almost exclusively, to Assange and his WikiLeaks and NOT to the NYT and the other 4 major quality news papers, mainly in Europe.

Earlier this year President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called rightly so!- upon China for more transparency and applauded the Freedom on Internet in the Western world, contrary to the lack of Press Freedom in China.

And, what's happening now? They are trying to do their utmost to GAG and control the Internet and even forbid their civil servants to even have a glimpse on the WikiLeaks documents, even threatening them with: "you're fired because you had a look in the WikiLeaks documents!"

The only safe place civil servants can have a look, is (as a matter of speaking) in a newspaper in a dark alley.

What a sad development.

If ANY European Government would even try to gag their staff/civil servants, a total uproar would surface with such an immense power -also by the total media forces- that you wouldn't believe your eyes an ears.

NOBODY would accept such steps by any European Government!

I wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

LaoPo

Mr. Lao Po:

I have a couple of comments on your post.

You say in paragraph 3...." the documents from WikiLeaks were anonymously sent to them and than forwarded to exactly the same New York Times."

Your sentence does not make sense. You say the documents FROM Wikileaks were anonymously sent to THEM and then forwarded to exactly the same NYT. The NYT knew the documents were from Wikileaks and they were certainly not sent to the NYT anonymously. Who is THEM in your sentence?

Reading between the lines did you really mean to say...."the documents TO Wikileaks were anonymously sent to them (Wikileaks) and then forwarded to exactly the same NYT"?That I can understand but a question then arises in my mind as to how you know the documents were sent TO Wikileaks anonymously? If that were so, then why did Assange immediately jump on the bandwagon to save PFC Bradley Manning so early in this campaign. In my view Assange knew precisely where he got the information and who sent it to him. Do you have proof otherwise?

As to your gag order question, I truly wonder if the shoe were on the foot of the Europeans, would they not invoke The Official Secrets Act, in the case of the UK, or some other similar law or statute to protect the confidentiality of the State? I find it too much to swallow that the European State Security sections would stand idly by while state secrets were being bandied about.

You wonder whether Europe or the US is the more democratic of the two? I would say whichever one is NOT under some form of cyber attack would be the more lenient of the two, forget democracy.

[LaoPo]

Public figures in the US, calling upon murder and assassination should be prosecuted and jailed within the US immediately as they are "poisoning" the American young brains with their television calls for the same barbaric "solutions".

I can hear it already....."If those high-so guys can call for murder and assassination why can't we, brother?"

No wonder your country has the highest number of prisoners in the entire world.

LaoPo

The calls for murder and assassination have ben condemned and rebuked by responsible authorities and leaders. The expression of such sentiments is a byproduct of a relatively free society where people are allowed to express their views. It isn't any different than the Westboro cult protesting outside soldier's funerals celebrating the death or when some people congregate in major US cities calling for jihad against the USA or others call for the death of Obama or Bush. The actions are deplorable and offensive, but the views expressed are protected by freedom of expression until a crime is committed. If you or anyone believes a crime has occurred, please make a complaint and have charges brought.

The comment about incarceration is bogus. One of the reasons the US numbers are inflated is that there is a large number of illegal immigrants included in the numbers. As well, the US has been the dumping ground for thousands upon thousands of foreign criminals. If the US sends these people back they will cause havoc in their homelands. In other situations, the incarceration is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of some segments of the US population. However, rather than identify a specific ethnic group, the PC thing is to pretend it is not a factor.

1. the call for murder and assassination is as despicable as the calls for a jihad against the USA or other countries. It's TOTALLY despicable and let there be no mis-understanding about my views about that! Whether that's allowed because of freedom of speech in America or not.

Apart from that, the same present government is now gagging your famous freedom of press and speech, forbidding their civil servants for looking into the WikiLeaks documents as well as putting heavy pressure on American companies in order to try and hide for possible uproar amongst their own citizens

2. Maybe you should study the number of incarceration a bit and blaiming the (illegal) foreign criminals is a typical thing to withdraw from the truth that the US has the higest number of prisoners, in the world!

AND: if the incarceration problem, read: prisoners, is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of "some segments of the US Poplation", don't you think that certain aspects of the American Dream failed totally and completely or are you saying it's only because of behavior (criminality) certain non-white groups in American society ?

To be fair: the Governments in Europe also make/made many mistakes, especially in regard to the HUGE integration problem, resulting in high percentages of low-educated immigrants and descents of the same.

If I hear from the -very nice- woman from Turkey, who's cutting my hair that her parents live in the country for decades but still don't speak the language than I not only blame the parents but above all my own government for not taking proper actions when they should have done so.....30, 40 years ago.

LaoPo

[SergeiY]

I didn't sign up on your petition but I might answer this one, from the same site.

http://civoc.com/romarybt

It certainly adds a degree of seriousness to your petition.

Nothing wrong with your taste Chuck ...Holy Moly...but likely a "fake" and also quite white for a Ghana girl.

LaoPo

What kind of scam is this page? most of the profiles there seems to be fake. fake member profiles to create the illusion of some web community. the photos probably stolen somewhere else on the net or from a collection of emails from nigeria. I doubt that many of the members there are real people.

[SergeiY]

under US law maybe but Australian citizens are not bound by US laws if they did not comit an offence in the US. The yanks and thier so called little laws have no jurisdiction in Australia even tho most Americans may think they do.

Sounds like a fairly valid & interesting argument to me!

It didn't help Bout.

As far as the US is concerned, you don't have to be in the US to break their laws.

Not that Assange has broken any US laws inside or outside the US.

Do you know that Thailand is not Australia?

[philw]

Public figures in the US, calling upon murder and assassination should be prosecuted and jailed within the US immediately as they are "poisoning" the American young brains with their television calls for the same barbaric "solutions".

I can hear it already....."If those high-so guys can call for murder and assassination why can't we, brother?"

No wonder your country has the highest number of prisoners in the entire world.

LaoPo

The calls for murder and assassination have ben condemned and rebuked by responsible authorities and leaders. The expression of such sentiments is a byproduct of a relatively free society where people are allowed to express their views. It isn't any different than the Westboro cult protesting outside soldier's funerals celebrating the death or when some people congregate in major US cities calling for jihad against the USA or others call for the death of Obama or Bush. The actions are deplorable and offensive, but the views expressed are protected by freedom of expression until a crime is committed. If you or anyone believes a crime has occurred, please make a complaint and have charges brought.

The comment about incarceration is bogus. One of the reasons the US numbers are inflated is that there is a large number of illegal immigrants included in the numbers. As well, the US has been the dumping ground for thousands upon thousands of foreign criminals. If the US sends these people back they will cause havoc in their homelands. In other situations, the incarceration is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of some segments of the US population. However, rather than identify a specific ethnic group, the PC thing is to pretend it is not a factor.

1. the call for murder and assassination is as despicable as the calls for a jihad against the USA or other countries. It's TOTALLY despicable and let there be no mis-understanding about my views about that! Whether that's allowed because of freedom of speech in America or not.

Apart from that, the same present government is now gagging your famous freedom of press and speech, forbidding their civil servants for looking into the WikiLeaks documents as well as putting heavy pressure on American companies in order to try and hide for possible uproar amongst their own citizens

2. Maybe you should study the number of incarceration a bit and blaiming the (illegal) foreign criminals is a typical thing to withdraw from the truth that the US has the higest number of prisoners, in the world!

AND: if the incarceration problem, read: prisoners, is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of "some segments of the US Poplation", don't you think that certain aspects of the American Dream failed totally and completely or are you saying it's only because of behavior (criminality) certain non-white groups in American society ?

To be fair: the Governments in Europe also make/made many mistakes, especially in regard to the HUGE integration problem, resulting in high percentages of low-educated immigrants and descents of the same.

If I hear from the -very nice- woman from Turkey, who's cutting my hair that her parents live in the country for decades but still don't speak the language than I not only blame the parents but above all my own government for not taking proper actions when they should have done so.....30, 40 years ago.

LaoPo

LP you are spot on as usual.

Don't quite understand your last paragraph but the first states it all well.

It's incredible that someone can go on mainstream American television and encourage murder and hardly be criticised.

Imagine the reaction if a well known and respected European TV host advocated the murder of Bush, by say, Norwegian special forces, because of his alleged crimes ??

This big mess is going to get bigger and so what if a few diplomatic careers are endangered.

It's useful to know what American diplomats think of the rest of the world.

Makes it easier for us to judge them.

Thank you Assange.

[chuckd]

I didn't sign up on your petition but I might answer this one, from the same site.

http://civoc.com/romarybt

It certainly adds a degree of seriousness to your petition.

Nothing wrong with your taste Chuck ...Holy Moly...but likely a "fake" and also quite white for a Ghana girl.

LaoPo

What kind of scam is this page? most of the profiles there seems to be fake. fake member profiles to create the illusion of some web community. the photos probably stolen somewhere else on the net or from a collection of emails from nigeria. I doubt that many of the members there are real people.

Maybe they are looking for new candidates to receive the $700,000,000 let unclaimed by a deceased Russian that they need to give it to another Russian. Send them your e-mail address and all your banking information and they will give you 10% up front.

Oh yes, isn't Nigeria the country that just charged Cheney?

[LaoPo]

I doubt -VERY much- you are a dumb old country boy from West Texas, Cuckd.

You're right that laws could have been rewritten, amended and altered since the PENTAGON PAPERS but the principle is still exactly the same.

There were/are Whistleblowers then and now with the only difference that Daniel Ellsberg single handedly copied 7.000 documents one-by-one on a Xerox machine and than handed by him personally to the New York Times and the documents from WikiLeaks were anonymously sent to them and than forwarded to exactly the same New York Times.

The principle is still the same but I am quite surprised by the enormous attention now, almost exclusively, to Assange and his WikiLeaks and NOT to the NYT and the other 4 major quality news papers, mainly in Europe.

Earlier this year President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called rightly so!- upon China for more transparency and applauded the Freedom on Internet in the Western world, contrary to the lack of Press Freedom in China.

And, what's happening now? They are trying to do their utmost to GAG and control the Internet and even forbid their civil servants to even have a glimpse on the WikiLeaks documents, even threatening them with: "you're fired because you had a look in the WikiLeaks documents!"

The only safe place civil servants can have a look, is (as a matter of speaking) in a newspaper in a dark alley.

What a sad development.

If ANY European Government would even try to gag their staff/civil servants, a total uproar would surface with such an immense power -also by the total media forces- that you wouldn't believe your eyes an ears.

NOBODY would accept such steps by any European Government!

I wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

LaoPo

Mr. Lao Po:

I have a couple of comments on your post.

You say in paragraph 3...." the documents from WikiLeaks were anonymously sent to them and than forwarded to exactly the same New York Times."

Your sentence does not make sense. You say the documents FROM Wikileaks were anonymously sent to THEM and then forwarded to exactly the same NYT. The NYT knew the documents were from Wikileaks and they were certainly not sent to the NYT anonymously. Who is THEM in your sentence?

Reading between the lines did you really mean to say...."the documents TO Wikileaks were anonymously sent to them (Wikileaks) and then forwarded to exactly the same NYT"? That I can understand but a question then arises in my mind as to how you know the documents were sent TO Wikileaks anonymously? If that were so, then why did Assange immediately jump on the bandwagon to save PFC Bradley Manning so early in this campaign. In my view Assange knew precisely where he got the information and who sent it to him. Do you have proof otherwise?

As to your gag order question, I truly wonder if the shoe were on the foot of the Europeans, would they not invoke The Official Secrets Act, in the case of the UK, or some other similar law or statute to protect the confidentiality of the State? I find it too much to swallow that the European State Security sections would stand idly by while state secrets were being bandied about.

You wonder whether Europe or the US is the more democratic of the two? I would say whichever one is NOT under some form of cyber attack would be the more lenient of the two, forget democracy.

You're right; maybe some can misread my FROM.

Of course I meant the documents (coming) from WikiLeaks were sent to them (WikiLeaks) and the forwarded to the NYT.

I leave the rest for the moment since I'm quite busy with many other things.

LaoPo

[elcent]

I didn't sign up on your petition but I might answer this one, from the same site.

http://civoc.com/romarybt

It certainly adds a degree of seriousness to your petition.

Nothing wrong with your taste Chuck ...Holy Moly...but likely a "fake" and also quite white for a Ghana girl.

LaoPo

What kind of scam is this page? most of the profiles there seems to be fake. fake member profiles to create the illusion of some web community. the photos probably stolen somewhere else on the net or from a collection of emails from nigeria. I doubt that many of the members there are real people.

there are only 5 test accounts, since this site is pretty new. Everything else is original. and the one you mentioned really came from Ghana according to IP log.

Edited December 9, 2010 by elcent

[luckizuchinni]

Would that mean that the people on TV shows etc in the US asking for Assange to be assasinated can be extradited to wherever Assange is living and be charged with inciting murder?

Possibly, but since Assange has alienated most civilized nations, it is doubtful that any of them would bother - considering the expense.

Which ones ??

Most reaction i see, apart from USA, is that he has performed a public service.

I think the big issue is that the Americans have been caught with egg on thier faces and what Americans really think of the rest of the world has been revealed publically and they don't like being caught out for what they really are. If Americans had treated the rest of the planet with due respect then there would be no issue. Now they are looking for someone to take the blame for thier intial actions and have pulled out that old usual terrorist card they always use and slapped it on the back of an Australian journalist. America has lost a lot of friends due to thier stabbing.

This is pretty silly, in my humble opinion. I don't know your country, but do you really think that the US is the only nations which has documents which give opinions on all other nations/officials? All nations do this. THat is part of the job description of being a diplomat.

Most of the leaks I have read are not really even embarrassing to the US but rather to the subject matters of the documents. Oh, a few are damaging, to be sure. But the holier than thou attitude being expressed is really silly. The US was the first one targeted, but when WIkiLeaks releases the same type of documents about other nations (rumors are that Russia is in the on deck circle for that after banks) let's see how unique and horrible the US's actions are.

[bonobo]

The constant personal attacks and country-bashing need to stop.  It is perfectly acceptable to report on events and give opinions, but personal attacks editorializing events to bash any specific country is against ThaiVisa posting rules.

Posts have been deleted and threads edited.  Further posts in this nature will result in warnings/suspensions and could result in the thread being closed.

[mark45y]

Go here if you wish to read a copy of 18 U.S.C. section 793, 794 and 798. I would think any or all of these are under consideration by the Justice Department in the Wikileaks case.

http://codes.lp.find...ode/18/I/37/793

http://codes.lp.find...ode/18/I/37/794

http://codes.lp.find...ode/18/I/37/798

_______________________________________________________________

Go here if you wish to learn which Federal crimes may be punishable by the death penalty. Interestingly, Section 794 is on the list.

http://www.deathpena...g-death-penalty

How many editors and publishers from the New York Times were executed after publishing the PENTAGON PAPERS; and what about Daniel Ellsberg...?

LaoPo

Uh, Mr. Lao Po. I know much of your position relies on the Pentagon Papers and Daniel Ellsberg but you do realize laws can be passed, rewritten, amended and altered between 1969 and 2010. What was applicable in 1969 might not be applicable in today's world.

I realize you probably have the Pentagon Papers on speed dial but you might want to reconsider your position and come up with something a little more recent. Perhaps even something related to the 21st century..

But then, what do I know? I'm just a dumb old country boy from West Texas.

I doubt -VERY much- you are a dumb old country boy from West Texas, Cuckd.

You're right that laws could have been rewritten, amended and altered since the PENTAGON PAPERS but the principle is still exactly the same.

There were/are Whistleblowers then and now with the only difference that Daniel Ellsberg single handedly copied 7.000 documents one-by-one on a Xerox machine and than handed by him personally to the New York Times and the documents from WikiLeaks were anonymously sent to them and than forwarded to exactly the same New York Times.

The principle is still the same but I am quite surprised by the enormous attention now, almost exclusively, to Assange and his WikiLeaks and NOT to the NYT and the other 4 major quality news papers, mainly in Europe.

Earlier this year President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called rightly so!- upon China for more transparency and applauded the Freedom on Internet in the Western world, contrary to the lack of Press Freedom in China.

And, what's happening now? They are trying to do their utmost to GAG and control the Internet and even forbid their civil servants to even have a glimpse on the WikiLeaks documents, even threatening them with: "you're fired because you had a look in the WikiLeaks documents!"

The only safe place civil servants can have a look, is (as a matter of speaking) in a newspaper in a dark alley.

What a sad development.

If ANY European Government would even try to gag their staff/civil servants, a total uproar would surface with such an immense power -also by the total media forces- that you wouldn't believe your eyes an ears.

NOBODY would accept such steps by any European Government!

I wonder which part of the world is more democratic...the US or Europe.

I know, but do you?

LaoPo

Caught in the crossfire and deleted my post didn't see the above post when I was writing

Edited December 9, 2010 by mark45y

[LaoPo]

Public figures in the US, calling upon murder and assassination should be prosecuted and jailed within the US immediately as they are "poisoning" the American young brains with their television calls for the same barbaric "solutions".

I can hear it already....."If those high-so guys can call for murder and assassination why can't we, brother?"

No wonder your country has the highest number of prisoners in the entire world.

LaoPo

The calls for murder and assassination have ben condemned and rebuked by responsible authorities and leaders. The expression of such sentiments is a byproduct of a relatively free society where people are allowed to express their views. It isn't any different than the Westboro cult protesting outside soldier's funerals celebrating the death or when some people congregate in major US cities calling for jihad against the USA or others call for the death of Obama or Bush. The actions are deplorable and offensive, but the views expressed are protected by freedom of expression until a crime is committed. If you or anyone believes a crime has occurred, please make a complaint and have charges brought.

The comment about incarceration is bogus. One of the reasons the US numbers are inflated is that there is a large number of illegal immigrants included in the numbers. As well, the US has been the dumping ground for thousands upon thousands of foreign criminals. If the US sends these people back they will cause havoc in their homelands. In other situations, the incarceration is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of some segments of the US population. However, rather than identify a specific ethnic group, the PC thing is to pretend it is not a factor.

1. the call for murder and assassination is as despicable as the calls for a jihad against the USA or other countries. It's TOTALLY despicable and let there be no mis-understanding about my views about that! Whether that's allowed because of freedom of speech in America or not.

Apart from that, the same present government is now gagging your famous freedom of press and speech, forbidding their civil servants for looking into the WikiLeaks documents as well as putting heavy pressure on American companies in order to try and hide for possible uproar amongst their own citizens

2. Maybe you should study the number of incarceration a bit and blaiming the (illegal) foreign criminals is a typical thing to withdraw from the truth that the US has the higest number of prisoners, in the world!

AND: if the incarceration problem, read: prisoners, is a reflection of the moral bankruptcy of "some segments of the US Poplation", don't you think that certain aspects of the American Dream failed totally and completely or are you saying it's only because of behavior (criminality) certain non-white groups in American society ?

To be fair: the Governments in Europe also make/made many mistakes, especially in regard to the HUGE integration problem, resulting in high percentages of low-educated immigrants and descents of the same.

If I hear from the -very nice- woman from Turkey, who's cutting my hair that her parents live in the country for decades but still don't speak the language than I not only blame the parents but above all my own government for not taking proper actions when they should have done so.....30, 40 years ago.

LaoPo

LP you are spot on as usual.

Don't quite understand your last paragraph but the first states it all well.

It's incredible that someone can go on mainstream American television and encourage murder and hardly be criticised.

Imagine the reaction if a well known and respected European TV host advocated the murder of Bush, by say, Norwegian special forces, because of his alleged crimes ??

This big mess is going to get bigger and so what if a few diplomatic careers are endangered.

It's useful to know what American diplomats think of the rest of the world.

Makes it easier for us to judge them.

Thank you Assange.

1. I was referring to the mistakes not only American Governments make, but (to be fair, as I said) European Governments as well and that the successive European Governments made immense mistakes, the past 40-50 years, by not taking integration seriously and because of that we now have a lot of criminality and low educated people from many African, Middle Eastern, Asian and Eastern European countries, without having any possibility to enter the work force and therefore slide towards criminal behaviour.

I am talking ALL EU countries !

2. CORRECT !!! IMPOSSIBLE ...TOTALLY AND UTTER IMPOSSIBLE that a call for assassination and murder would be outspoken in ANY European EU country, LIVE on television.

That man/woman would be called to justice immediately and prosecuted.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Caught in the crossfire and deleted my post didn't see the above post when I was writing

A crossfire indeed and it says something about how divided the world is about the discussion about Freedom of Press and Freedom of Speech, together with the transparency of our mutual governments, all over the world.

But, above all it says something about a phenomenon which didn't exist, 10 years ago, in such an enormous form: INTERNET.

We are all witnesses of the HUGE and ENORMOUS power war on and of Internet and the only way to gag the contestants is to cut off all cables (the real ones) around the world, cut off the access to Internet and cut off all MAJOR servers around the world.

What's more important, there's only one country in the world which could do so and realizing that is very scary...

I watched a debate amongst very skilled IT specialist who are following this Internet war from second to second and they confirmed that such a scenario (although higly unlikely) IS possible.

BTW Mark45y: I enjoy debating with you since you are a highly intelligent and reasonable Gentleman, not using any -virtual- weapons. I appreciate and value that very much, not withstanding that we do not (always) share the same visions, ...........children as we are from different worlds and systems.

:jap:

LaoPo

[elcent]

PayPal bows partly to the pressure and will pay out the money in the wikileaks accounts and said that it won't accept more donations.

At least the legal owner of the money doesn't have to wait for 6 months now.

I think there will be more bows coming.

[jayjay0]

I hate to be the bearer of sad news

But I feel it must be told.

Seven days ago this horse was born. It lived for two days and died.

It has been dead for five days and is beginning to deteriorate. If you don't get off it you also will begin to reek.

May the horse rest in peace.

[elcent]

I hate to be the bearer of sad news

But I feel it must be told.

Seven days ago this horse was born. It lived for two days and died.

It has been dead for five days and is beginning to deteriorate. If you don't get off it you also will begin to reek.

May the horse rest in peace.

any translation for this?

[mark45y]

Caught in the crossfire and deleted my post didn't see the above post when I was writing

A crossfire indeed and it says something about how divided the world is about the discussion about Freedom of Press and Freedom of Speech, together with the transparency of our mutual governments, all over the world.

But, above all it says something about a phenomenon which didn't exist, 10 years ago, in such an enormous form: INTERNET.

We are all witnesses of the HUGE and ENORMOUS power war on and of Internet and the only way to gag the contestants is to cut off all cables (the real ones) around the world, cut off the access to Internet and cut off all MAJOR servers around the world.

What's more important, there's only one country in the world which could do so and realizing that is very scary...

I watched a debate amongst very skilled IT specialist who are following this Internet war from second to second and they confirmed that such a scenario (although higly unlikely) IS possible.

BTW Mark45y: I enjoy debating with you since you are a highly intelligent and reasonable Gentleman, not using any -virtual- weapons. I appreciate and value that very much, not withstanding that we do not (always) share the same visions, ...........children as we are from different worlds and systems.

:jap:

LaoPo

Thank you. Freedom of speech is a difficult topic. And of course I think there are two sides to every story.

Wiretaps show Italian PM Berlusconi's attempts to gag media

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/289243#ixzz17d8uOGqh

Is the Foreign Office simply protecting its official secrets, or trying to save ministers from embarrassment?

UK diplomats 'face lifetime gag'

Official secrets are protected by the Official Secrets Act, which rightly binds officials for life, both as government employees and after retirement.

The new rules go much further, banning any unauthorised expression of opinion not just by serving officers but also by retired diplomats for the rest of their lives, if such an expression “draws on, or appears to draw on, official information or experience gained in the course of official duties”.

In Germany, Switzerland,[2] and Poland it is illegal to insult foreign heads of state publicly.

Turkey

The law on "insulting the memory of Atatürk", the founder and first president of the Republic of Turkey is similar. Anyone found guilty of this crime serves one to three years' imprisonment.[9]

Netherlands

In October 2007 a 47-year-old man was fined €400 for, amongst other things, lèse majesté in the Netherlands. Netherlands: Wilders' Mohammed cartoon censored.

On May 13, 2008 Gregorius Nekschot was arrested at his home in Amsterdam. The cartoonist was taken into custody for interrogation, but released after 30 hours. He commented that it was the first time in 800 years of satire history in the Netherlands that an artist was put in jail.

A dispute over freedom of speech is raging in Sweden after an anti-immigration advert was rejected by broadcasters there.

If you look at the new EU countries and Eastern Europe censorship and corruption is rampant.

Lèse majesté violations and insulting heads of states is rather common place in the US and it seems odd to Americans it would bother anyone.