Extension Of Stay And Pr

[Darvil]

I just learned just now that you need extension of stay in order for your time to count towards the permanent residency process.

Now here is a question I have about that. Lets say I was able to get the extension of stay with my WP (with 60K as minimum for US citizen), and I have to leave Thailand 3 months out of the year to go back to the States, how does that work toward the PR process? Do they count it as 9 months? or a full year (as the tax will be for the whole year).

Initially I considered an amnity treaty company to get a non immigration B visa with a WP (leaving the country every 90 days) but I didn't realize that it doesn't count for PR. I considered the company route in order to save work for my Thai friends but since I now realize it won't work for PR, I will have to bother them. This does make life a bit more complicated.

[Mario2008]

No problem, they look at your extension of stay, which should be for 1 year. That you are out of the country for a period of time is less important. But you must be in the country to do your extensions.

The income requirement for a US citizen is 50,000 baht. For PR a higher income is advisable as they consider how much tax you pay.

[Darvil]

You know what, I'm still not clear on the 50k baht. I've seen people quote from 50k to 70k. Where to find the answer to this question? You mentioned its better to claim more. What is the number you suggest? Minimum income for the extension of stay means they are more likely to reject your PR application? Please note, I grew up in Thailand as a child (in an international school) and can speak Thai and have alot of friends (including one in the military) in BKK who can vouch for me. Does that help me at all? or is it all up to the officer?

Claiming 70k also means alot of taxes. I think its over 100k in taxes as it is the 30 percent range at this point. The problem I have is that since I won't be staying in Thailand 330 days out of the year (just 9 months), it means I can't claim this income with the foreign exclusion income. This means I will also have to pay US tax on this fake 70k income. This is going to hurt my pocketbook.

I wish it was a bit more easier then this. Getting double taxed is going to be a pain.

[tombkk]

You know what, I'm still not clear on the 50k baht. I've seen people quote from 50k to 70k. Where to find the answer to this question? You mentioned its better to claim more. What is the number you suggest? Minimum income for the extension of stay means they are more likely to reject your PR application? Please note, I grew up in Thailand as a child (in an international school) and can speak Thai and have alot of friends (including one in the military) in BKK who can vouch for me. Does that help me at all? or is it all up to the officer?

Claiming 70k also means alot of taxes. I think its over 100k in taxes as it is the 30 percent range at this point. The problem I have is that since I won't be staying in Thailand 330 days out of the year (just 9 months), it means I can't claim this income with the foreign exclusion income. This means I will also have to pay US tax on this fake 70k income. This is going to hurt my pocketbook.

I wish it was a bit more easier then this. Getting double taxed is going to be a pain.

It's 50K for Americans. I couldn't find the relevant page on www.labour.go.th so I googled for "work permit Thailand minimum income". Several websites say the same thing, so I believe it is correct.

I can imagine that you have better chances if your salary is higher, and there was a rumour a few years back that you should have paid at least THB 300,000 in income taxes. Dunno whether this is true. Anyway, it's not entirely up to the officer, because they have a system in which they assign points. This is to prevent any funny business or being dependent on the officer's whim on that day, and to provide transparency. Alas, I don't have the key.

It also helps that you grew up in Thailand, they will see that you have an emotional connection to the country. It does not matter that you spend only 9 months per year in Thailand, as long as as you are on an uninterrupted work permit for 3 years before you apply. Note that the work permit must be three years old by the time you apply; if only your extension of stay is uninterrupted, that's not enough.(If you apply under teh Busienss category, that is.)

You might want to check whether you fall double-taxation agremeent between Thailand and the US, so you don't need to pay full income tax to both countries:

http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/double-taxation.html

[lopburi3]

That income requirement is for one year extension of stay from immigration and has nothing to do with work permit. But in turn has nothing to do with PR where I believe they suggest you have an income of 80k per month for the 3 year period.

PR itself is subject to a number of factors as you will find in the pinned item about it. But for the last 4 years almost no approvals have been made so it is not a given for anyone. It is a long term goal and does require effort and funds.

[Darvil]

You know what, I'm still not clear on the 50k baht. I've seen people quote from 50k to 70k. Where to find the answer to this question? You mentioned its better to claim more. What is the number you suggest? Minimum income for the extension of stay means they are more likely to reject your PR application? Please note, I grew up in Thailand as a child (in an international school) and can speak Thai and have alot of friends (including one in the military) in BKK who can vouch for me. Does that help me at all? or is it all up to the officer?

Claiming 70k also means alot of taxes. I think its over 100k in taxes as it is the 30 percent range at this point. The problem I have is that since I won't be staying in Thailand 330 days out of the year (just 9 months), it means I can't claim this income with the foreign exclusion income. This means I will also have to pay US tax on this fake 70k income. This is going to hurt my pocketbook.

I wish it was a bit more easier then this. Getting double taxed is going to be a pain.

It's 50K for Americans. I couldn't find the relevant page on www.labour.go.th so I googled for "work permit Thailand minimum income". Several websites say the same thing, so I believe it is correct.

I can imagine that you have better chances if your salary is higher, and there was a rumour a few years back that you should have paid at least THB 300,000 in income taxes. Dunno whether this is true. Anyway, it's not entirely up to the officer, because they have a system in which they assign points. This is to prevent any funny business or being dependent on the officer's whim on that day, and to provide transparency. Alas, I don't have the key.

It also helps that you grew up in Thailand, they will see that you have an emotional connection to the country. It does not matter that you spend only 9 months per year in Thailand, as long as as you are on an uninterrupted work permit for 3 years before you apply. Note that the work permit must be three years old by the time you apply; if only your extension of stay is uninterrupted, that's not enough.(If you apply under teh Busienss category, that is.)

You might want to check whether you fall double-taxation agremeent between Thailand and the US, so you don't need to pay full income tax to both countries:

http://www.thailawforum.com/database1/double-taxation.html

tombkk,

Thanks for your excellent post.

I mentioned the money because I saw in a thread where sunbelt asia mentioned 60K for US citizen. I mean if 300k was one of those secret number then 60K-70K seems about right to meet that quota. But of course it all sounds like a conspiracy. As for the point system that you mentioned, I think I saw it somewhere on here before. You get points for your age, education, etc etc right? The only thing I wasn't sure about that point system was.. whats the total point you need to earn for approval?

On a side note, I also run websites that contribute to the spread of Thai Entertainment culture on the web. The interview is probably important too right? so I'm gearing up for all the positive things I can throw at the process. Sounds good so far. 3 years of uninterrupted extension of stay. I can manage that I think.

I think you're right about tax treaty between Thailand and the US. I'll have to double check and talk to a lawyer. Thanks for the link.

[joe84330]

was just having a PR related discussion with other visa runners in Penang this week and have heard conflicting reports regarding Extension of Stay vs. a 1yr Visa.

is there any difference in the PR process or are they both equal?

[lopburi3]

Extensions of stay are what you need to qualify for application for PR. 90 day visa stays are not continuous stay in that regard.

[jayboy]

It also helps that you grew up in Thailand, they will see that you have an emotional connection to the country.

Do you have any evidence for this at all ?

[joe84330]

Extensions of stay are what you need to qualify for application for PR. 90 day visa stays are not continuous stay in that regard.

lol, TIT i guess. i've got a single 1 year extension of stay (on a 3 month non imm to go along with several actual 1 year visas (at least that is what anyone applies for at a thai consulate, an actual one year visa not 4 separate 90 day stays) but the 1 year extension of a 3 month visa means more to them than an actual one year visa?

even with a one year extension of stay you are still required to report to immigration every 90 days so i'll just chalk that up to standard thai obtuseness.

[joe84330]

deleted double post

Edited December 4, 2010 by joe84330

[lopburi3]

What exactly did you have? The only Consulate issued visa that would normally allow a one year stay is the non immigrant O-A issued for retirement and retirement is not something you can obtain PR from. Other Visas do not allow more than a 90 day stay without exit. They allow an unlimited number of stays of up toe 90 days each. They do not allow a one year stay.

[joe84330]

well this is an issue of semantics then, as i have a "1yr" non imm b. no one goes to any thai consulate and asks for x number of stays up to 90 days each. we apply for a 1 year visa. the fact that we have to report to a border immigration official or a local immigration official (in the case of an extension of stay) makes no difference, we are still reporting to immigration each 90 days.

seems like a 1yr visa should be weighted more heavily than an extension of stay as my visa cannot be canceled in the event i lose my job, as would happen with a 1yr extension of stay based on a 3 month non imm b. i am actually allowed to stay for one year regardless.

[Darvil]

I just talked to a Tawanese friend of mine who I went to school with. She told me she should be a Thai citizen next year (3rd year of waiting). The thing is, she had to wait 3 years for her PR. The process started since she was in HS. Basically by next year the whole process is almost 14 years. 14 years! That is such a long time to wait. 3 years + 5 years + 3 years in between each prcoess = 14 years. Not to mention alot of hoops you would have to go through during the process.

It looks like the easiest way is to marry a Thai woman. This is not what I wanted to hear but I might have to resort to that.

[lopburi3]

joe84330

A visa allows only a 90 day stay - you then must exit the country unless you qualify for extension of stay. An extension of stay indicates you have met much more stringent conditions and is what is required for PR.

Darvil

Although being married to a Thai woman can help in PR and citizenship it sure it not going to make it that easy. It is a process.

[joe84330]

which stringent requirements in particular? i've had a one year extension of stay and can't recall anything required that was any different than all of the personal and corporate documents required for my WP and non b.

now, if it is simply an issue of one government bureaucracy not effectively sharing info with another, i can understand that, happens anywhere.

[Darvil]

Hey Lopburi3,

I'm sure its still going to be hard.. but wouldn't it be a substantially less amount then 14 years? Perhaps my goal should be the PR and worry about the citizenship later. PR process alone will probably take 6 years or more.

[tombkk]

I just talked to a Tawanese friend of mine who I went to school with. She told me she should be a Thai citizen next year (3rd year of waiting). The thing is, she had to wait 3 years for her PR. The process started since she was in HS. Basically by next year the whole process is almost 14 years. 14 years! That is such a long time to wait. 3 years + 5 years + 3 years in between each prcoess = 14 years. Not to mention alot of hoops you would have to go through during the process.

It looks like the easiest way is to marry a Thai woman. This is not what I wanted to hear but I might have to resort to that.

Marry a Thai woman if you love her.

If you marry her for the convenience of getting PR or citizenship, you will be in the same legal situation as Thai people doing that in Western countries.

[tombkk]

It also helps that you grew up in Thailand, they will see that you have an emotional connection to the country.

Do you have any evidence for this at all ?

No. But with all things in which humans are involved, making a good impression helps.

I do believe that they want to see that you love the country and have roots here when you apply for PR. This is the same in every country.

[tombkk]

That income requirement is for one year extension of stay from immigration and has nothing to do with work permit. But in turn has nothing to do with PR where I believe they suggest you have an income of 80k per month for the 3 year period.

You are right, I was thinking about work permit when I wrote this.

For the PR application, there is a seperate rule saying that you have to have an income of at least 80K/month, or 50K/month if you work for your own company.

[Darvil]

I just talked to a Tawanese friend of mine who I went to school with. She told me she should be a Thai citizen next year (3rd year of waiting). The thing is, she had to wait 3 years for her PR. The process started since she was in HS. Basically by next year the whole process is almost 14 years. 14 years! That is such a long time to wait. 3 years + 5 years + 3 years in between each prcoess = 14 years. Not to mention alot of hoops you would have to go through during the process.

It looks like the easiest way is to marry a Thai woman. This is not what I wanted to hear but I might have to resort to that.

Marry a Thai woman if you love her.

If you marry her for the convenience of getting PR or citizenship, you will be in the same legal situation as Thai people doing that in Western countries.

tombkk

I only meant this in a half jest. I'll try to do this on my own, at least the PR level. But as with life, I'll let the chips fall where ever they may. Once I move back there is a good chance I will find Mrs. Right; probably among mutual friends of friends.

Anyway about the 80K you mentioned. This is during the PR application or before?

[tombkk]

I just talked to a Tawanese friend of mine who I went to school with. She told me she should be a Thai citizen next year (3rd year of waiting). The thing is, she had to wait 3 years for her PR. The process started since she was in HS. Basically by next year the whole process is almost 14 years. 14 years! That is such a long time to wait. 3 years + 5 years + 3 years in between each prcoess = 14 years. Not to mention alot of hoops you would have to go through during the process.

It looks like the easiest way is to marry a Thai woman. This is not what I wanted to hear but I might have to resort to that.

Marry a Thai woman if you love her.

If you marry her for the convenience of getting PR or citizenship, you will be in the same legal situation as Thai people doing that in Western countries.

tombkk

I only meant this in a half jest. I'll try to do this on my own, at least the PR level. But as with life, I'll let the chips fall where ever they may. Once I move back there is a good chance I will find Mrs. Right; probably among mutual friends of friends.

Anyway about the 80K you mentioned. This is during the PR application or before?

1. Marriage

Whatever. Your decision. I'm just saying.

2. 80K

During, i.e. before. If you don't have it when you apply (and the three years previous to applying), you don't qualify.

[Darvil]

80k huh? Is this the amount mentioned somewhere? Also what about the other things like the point system? Is this 80k the first barrier to even get considered? I don't know how my friend did it as I don't think she was paid that much but her father had PR then so probably got it through that. Also 80k means that you'd have to pay 130k baht a year in taxes. Its a pretty steep amount.

On a side note, if you have a PR and you have a kid in the kingdom, is your kid considered Thai automatically?

Edited December 5, 2010 by Darvil

[jayboy]

It also helps that you grew up in Thailand, they will see that you have an emotional connection to the country.

Do you have any evidence for this at all ?

No. But with all things in which humans are involved, making a good impression helps.

I do believe that they want to see that you love the country and have roots here when you apply for PR. This is the same in every country.

Making a good impression is obviously very important overall , but I don't think it scores any ratings specifically.Nor do I think there is any particular advantage for those who grew up here (except perhaps by virtue of a presumed facility with the language).

Nor do I think there is any particular interest or expectation that foreigners applying for PR will "love" the country.A friend of mine who successfully applied for PR in the late 1990's told me that at his final interview at Suan Plu he was asked why he wanted PR.He replied on the lines that he loved the country, the Thai people and wonderful Thai culture.At this the Immigration Officer replied with a twinle in his eye "Ching ruplaw?".Thereafter all parties collapsed in merriment.It was obvious nobody present took these solemn sentiments seriously.Moral of the story according to my friend was that we should never underestimate the sophistication and humour of the Thais.They are much more layered than many of us.

[tombkk]

80k huh? Is this the amount mentioned somewhere? Also what about the other things like the point system? Is this 80k the first barrier to even get considered? I don't know how my friend did it as I don't think she was paid that much but her father had PR then so probably got it through that. Also 80k means that you'd have to pay 130k baht a year in taxes. Its a pretty steep amount.

On a side note, if you have a PR and you have a kid in the kingdom, is your kid considered Thai automatically?

The amount of 80k is mentioned under point 3.2.3: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

If both parents have a PR, there is a way the child can become Thai, but I don't know whether that's automatic. Somebody else would have to answer this.

[tombkk]

Making a good impression is obviously very important overall , but I don't think it scores any ratings specifically.Nor do I think there is any particular advantage for those who grew up here (except perhaps by virtue of a presumed facility with the language).

Nor do I think there is any particular interest or expectation that foreigners applying for PR will "love" the country.A friend of mine who successfully applied for PR in the late 1990's told me that at his final interview at Suan Plu he was asked why he wanted PR.He replied on the lines that he loved the country, the Thai people and wonderful Thai culture.At this the Immigration Officer replied with a twinle in his eye "Ching ruplaw?".Thereafter all parties collapsed in merriment.It was obvious nobody present took these solemn sentiments seriously.Moral of the story according to my friend was that we should never underestimate the sophistication and humour of the Thais.They are much more layered than many of us.

Everything might have been easier in the 1990s. I met this guy who has been here since the 1970s, and he says applying for the PR was just something they did. Welcome to the 21st century!

It helps if the personal portfolio mentioned under point 19 in this document: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/residence_work_en.pdf convinces them that you are serious. I would advise to mention everything and anything that could help your case. No, I don't know anybody who has been rejected (except for incomplete documents and therefore not qualifying), but why not bring up all the reasons?

[Darvil]

80k huh? Is this the amount mentioned somewhere? Also what about the other things like the point system? Is this 80k the first barrier to even get considered? I don't know how my friend did it as I don't think she was paid that much but her father had PR then so probably got it through that. Also 80k means that you'd have to pay 130k baht a year in taxes. Its a pretty steep amount.

On a side note, if you have a PR and you have a kid in the kingdom, is your kid considered Thai automatically?

The amount of 80k is mentioned under point 3.2.3: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/doc/residence/26122546_regulation_notice_en.pdf

If both parents have a PR, there is a way the child can become Thai, but I don't know whether that's automatic. Somebody else would have to answer this.

Thank you for the excellent link tom.

I also found the point system link ()

Sure is going to be alot of hard work but I think for me it'll be worth it.

[tombkk]

80k huh? Is this the amount mentioned somewhere? Also what about the other things like the point system? Is this 80k the first barrier to even get considered? I don't know how my friend did it as I don't think she was paid that much but her father had PR then so probably got it through that. Also 80k means that you'd have to pay 130k baht a year in taxes. Its a pretty steep amount.

On a side note, if you have a PR and you have a kid in the kingdom, is your kid considered Thai automatically?

The amount of 80k is mentioned under point 3.2.3: http://www.immigrati...n_notice_en.pdf

If both parents have a PR, there is a way the child can become Thai, but I don't know whether that's automatic. Somebody else would have to answer this.

Thank you for the excellent link tom.

I also found the point system link (http://www.thaivisa....hip-application)

Sure is going to be alot of hard work but I think for me it'll be worth it.

I was talking about PR application and the thread you are linking is about citizenship application. Not the same thing.

[Darvil]

tom,

Sorry about that. You are correct on that. My bad.

On the other hand, would it be ok to start a company either Amity (or not) without employees, get a work permit and also extension of stay with 80k salary? From what I read on here, I can do that with work permit but the extension of stay is a bit more restrictive? Perhaps a more established company?

The thing is even though people quote 50k or 60k for a US citizen to get extension of stay, if you want to fulfill the PR requirement you must be earning 80k. I think I'm starting to see a clearer picture.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Darvil

[tombkk]

tom,

Sorry about that. You are correct on that. My bad.

On the other hand, would it be ok to start a company either Amity (or not) without employees, get a work permit and also extension of stay with 80k salary? From what I read on here, I can do that with work permit but the extension of stay is a bit more restrictive? Perhaps a more established company?

The thing is even though people quote 50k or 60k for a US citizen to get extension of stay, if you want to fulfill the PR requirement you must be earning 80k. I think I'm starting to see a clearer picture.

I don't know about the Amity treaty. Without it, you need at least four Thai employees to get a work permit. I'm not sure about the extension of stay any more since it has been decoupled from the work permit. To extend the work permit, you basically have to prove that all conditions for getting it are still in place, and that all taxes have been paid.

I also hear that the company must also have made profit, but I get contradictory reports about that. I don't know whether the regulation actually mentions this and what the common practice is.