Am I Crazy To Consider Naw-saw-sam Land Title?

[NaiGreg]

I know that any [family] land investment without protection of a Chanote title is risky, but what are the risks exactly? Just theoretical? Or are there actual cases of owners losing property or rights?

Can naw-saw-sam be converted to Chanote? And if so, what is the process, and costs?

I'd love to hear from an expert on this. We (me and Thai wife) are considering chanote-less land in Chiangmai. She is very reluctant, but acknowledges that many people do this! Are their regional differences to consider for naw-saw-sam?

Thanks!

[tango]

I know that any [family] land investment without protection of a Chanote title is risky, but what are the risks exactly? Just theoretical? Or are there actual cases of owners losing property or rights?

Can naw-saw-sam be converted to Chanote? And if so, what is the process, and costs?

I'd love to hear from an expert on this. We (me and Thai wife) are considering chanote-less land in Chiangmai. She is very reluctant, but acknowledges that many people do this! Are their regional differences to consider for naw-saw-sam?

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi,

Not an expert, but anecdotal evidence suggests the following. Many Thais possess 5-Rai blocks of land for farming called Sor Por Kor (SPK). Initially these were given free to those who would till them. These lands are now passing from one to another for compensation, the land title being handed over upon payment. As there are no taxes paid on this activity, apparently the current Govt wishes to convert these to some higher classification such as your naw-saw-sam (NS3) and NS3-to-Chanote to reap some financial benefit. No house building is permitted on SPK, but many Thais around Cmai Province have built houses on NS3 and some on SPK. All province farm land titles are currently being surveyed and upgraded, unbeknownst to the average city dweller, except those from Bkk and the civil servants who are hurriedly buying property especially SPK in the belief that once the Govt has completed the land title conversions, prices are set to climb. Prices are indeed rising. The least expensive land now (but not for long) is in the Mae Wang area. This is about to change dramaticallyas the 4-lane Night Safari canal road is currently being surveyed for extension Southward thru to Mae Wang, going directly South from where it currently turns West to Sarapee. Five years ago, 1 rai in Mae Tang-Doi Saket was 400K-500K, now this is approaching 1 Million Baht. So depending on where your land is it may soon be upgraded.

1 rai of rice field in Mae Tang district is above 1 million. Other land is currently around 200+K per rai; 4 years ago the asking price was about 50k per rai, 2 years ago about 100K per rai. Caveat: remember the 3 rules of property ownership: 'location, location, location', plus access to a principal road, electricty and not least - water. My advice is to hop in your car and check it out yourself; first in Doi Saket, then Mae Tang, Mae Rim, Sarapee and Mae Wang. Let your Thai partner do the talking, consulting with you before committing.

BTW, 1 rai of land is currently ~7 million Baht (17500/Talang wah) near Lanna Hospital, and beside the new circular extensions near Payap land is 35K/TW.

Villages in Lamphun are nearly complete and most owners near Lumphun and Sarapee have turned their papers over to the village council to be surveyed and upgraded. Mae Tang apparently is almost complete. Ask your wife to contact the villagers or the village headman for info.

The cost of this conversion is minimal. Been in Chiangmai area nearly 10 years now, and have heard of no Thai landowner without a chanote, encountering risk. Most titles increasingly began changing hands about 5 years ago, as a result of deaths of heads of household alledgedly due to AIDS.

I too await an expert opinion.

[chownah]

I built a house on land that has absolutely no ownership paper whatsoever!!! I built here because it is my wife's families land and was purchased with my wife's future needs in mind....also because it was the best building lot in my wife's family's village. After we started building I learned about the krom tidin...the land office...I went there and did a little bit of research (with my wife as translator) and found out what the story was as to why there was no ownership papers. I feel pretty comfortable now about building here...but I realize that my wife can never borrow money against the property or use her ownership in any legalistic way...but that's ok with us...we have no need for that. I suppose in theory someone could take the land away but it is extremely unlikely in our situation....the moral here is to check out the situation on a case by case basis.

[Thaipwriter]

I know that any [family] land investment without protection of a Chanote title is risky, but what are the risks exactly? Just theoretical? Or are there actual cases of owners losing property or rights?

Can naw-saw-sam be converted to Chanote? And if so, what is the process, and costs?

I'd love to hear from an expert on this. We (me and Thai wife) are considering chanote-less land in Chiangmai. She is very reluctant, but acknowledges that many people do this! Are their regional differences to consider for naw-saw-sam?

Thanks!

i am neither lawyer or expert but i understand the following to be reasonably accurate....seek solid legal advice also!!!!!

please clarify the exact title document that you are looking at:

Nor sor sahm gor: green coloured logo at top of original document. perfectly safe to invest in and upgrade to Chanote. talk to the local land office for costs about upgrading to Chanote.

Nor sor sam: this is only a "unconfirmed certificate of use" and not normally considered a wise purchase by falang until background details have been checked out and established, ie. are you paying the rightful owner, does the document you are looking at relate to the land you are being offered??

also awaiting expert opinion....

[Sir Burr]

When a Nor Sor Sam is resurveyed during the process of being upgraded to a Chanote, you can lose, or, gain some land.

[vankleeff]

I know that any [family] land investment without protection of a Chanote title is risky, but what are the risks exactly? Just theoretical? Or are there actual cases of owners losing property or rights?

Can naw-saw-sam be converted to Chanote? And if so, what is the process, and costs?

I'd love to hear from an expert on this. We (me and Thai wife) are considering chanote-less land in Chiangmai. She is very reluctant, but acknowledges that many people do this! Are their regional differences to consider for naw-saw-sam?

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please check: www.yourthairealestate.com

Specialized in Chiang Mai area, and very honest. I know them from doing research for a dutch company. They do (succesfully) business for years now...... A very trustworthy partner, and friend now.

and find out at "regulation" what you should know about title deeds.

[Dragonman]

I know that any [family] land investment without protection of a Chanote title is risky, but what are the risks exactly? Just theoretical? Or are there actual cases of owners losing property or rights?

Can naw-saw-sam be converted to Chanote? And if so, what is the process, and costs?

I'd love to hear from an expert on this. We (me and Thai wife) are considering chanote-less land in Chiangmai. She is very reluctant, but acknowledges that many people do this! Are their regional differences to consider for naw-saw-sam?

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i am neither lawyer or expert but i understand the following to be reasonably accurate....seek solid legal advice also!!!!!

please clarify the exact title document that you are looking at:

Nor sor sahm gor: green coloured logo at top of original document. perfectly safe to invest in and upgrade to Chanote. talk to the local land office for costs about upgrading to Chanote.

Nor sor sam: this is only a "unconfirmed certificate of use" and not normally considered a wise purchase by falang until background details have been checked out and established, ie. are you paying the rightful owner, does the document you are looking at relate to the land you are being offered??

also awaiting expert opinion....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is quite accurate. Nor Sor Sahm Gor has been aerial surveyed and will have accurate markers for establishing land boundaries.

It is essential to get a good lawyer, if you can find one, to check out land use provisions. I am sure someone without a vested interest can recommend one in Chiang Mai. Most of this land was established for forestry or agriculture, but this being Thailand, people just do as they wish and think about problems only when they arise.

There are no regional differences with regard to regulations.

[blue eyes]

Not to sure if this will help but.Try this site maybe they may be of help or be able to stear you in the right direction. WWW.area.co.th/