Hamas leader says it will never recognize Israel

[News_Editor]

Hamas leader says it will never recognize Israel

2010-12-15 06:11:42 GMT+7 (ICT)

GAZA (BNO NEWS) -- Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh on Tuesday said that they will never recognize Israel and said it will always 'protect the principles' of the Palestinian people, the Haaretz newspaper reported.

Haniyeh spoke during a rally to celebrate the 23rd anniversary of the foundation of Hamas. The rally took place in Gaza city with the presence of tens of thousands people.

"We say it with confidence as we said it five years ago when we formed our government, and we say it today: We will never recognize Israel," said Haniyeh.

The rally also had the participation of hundreds of teenagers and children dressed with white uniforms and green caps. They marched through Gaza while Hamas officials handed out chocolates and candy carrying a card that read "From Hamas with love."

Hamas leaders prepared the rally for two weeks. It included a poster which featured photographs of Hamas leaders assassinated by Israel in the last 10 years. It also had a scale model of Jerusalem's al-Aqsa Mosque with a slogan proclaiming that "We Remain Committed to the Covenant."

"Hamas will be the faithful guard of the Palestinian people's rights and the basic Palestinian principles," Haniyeh said. "We say today that there will be no occupation of the land of Palestine. I mean from the sea to the river and from Rafah up to Naqoora."

Hamas was founded by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin in Gaza on December 14, 1987. It followed the first Palestinian uprising against Israel. Yassin was assassinated in March 2004 by Israel.

Since then, Hamas defeated President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party in the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections. Until that moment, the Fatah party had been the favored party for the Palestinian people.

In June 2007, Hamas and Fatah began fighting in the Gaza Strip which led to the Islamist movement seizing control of the territory. It also caused that Gaza and the Fatah-run West Bank were divided politically as well as geographically.

Efforts to reconcile both sides have failed. But Hamas said that it is willing to accept a temporary solution based on setting an independent Palestinian state on the territories occupied by Israel in 1967, with East Jerusalem as capital and without settlements.

"An armed resistance is a legal right for the Palestinian people and we will never abandon this legal right until all our land and all our holy sites are liberated," read a message distributed at the rally.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2010-12-15

[Ulysses G.]

"We say it with confidence as we said it five years ago when we formed our government, and we say it today: We will never recognize Israel," said Haniyeh.

There it is from the horses mouth. The Israel haters who have been claiming that Hamas has turned over a new leaf have been talking complete nonsense. Hamas has one goal and that is to "drive Israel into the sea".

[siampolee]

Hamas has one goal and that is to "drive Israel into the sea".

In reality an action replay of the Palestinians being driven off of their land by the Israelis starting from the 1940s and continuing to this present day.

Yet again your bigotry blinds you.

You seem to happily ignore the rampant occupation and ongoing land theft committed by the Israeli government as an ongoing scenario.

As ye sow , so ye shall reap.

Edited December 15, 2010 by siampolee

[Ulysses G.]

Bigotry? Are you referring to back when the Arabs were trying to force them off land that they had bought legally or later when 5 huge armies attacked them after they had declared independence as supported by the UN? Try reading some authentic histoies of what happened there.

There are consequences to such actions. As ye sow , so ye shall reap, indeed.

Arab Armies Invade

(May 15, 1948)

On May 15, 1948, the day the British Mandate over Palestine ended, the armies of five neighboring Arab states invaded the new State of Israel, which had declared its independence the previous day. The invasion, heralded by an Egyptian air attack on Tel Aviv, was vigorously resisted. From the north, east and south came the armies of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Transjordan, and Egypt.

The invading forces were fully equipped with the standard weapons of a regular army of the time - artillery, tanks, armored cars and personnel carriers, in addition to machine guns, mortars and the usual small arms in great quantities, and full supplies of ammunition, oil, and gasoline. Further, Egypt, Iraq, and Syria had air forces. As sovereign states, they had no difficulty (as had the pre-state Jewish defense force) in securing whatever armaments they needed through normal channels from Britain and other friendly powers.

http://www.jewishvir...ory/Invade.html

Edited December 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[kuffki]

Well the haters keep claiming that Israel is taking PALESTINIAN LAND, perhaps those can post some land registration papers to show that the land did and does indeed belong to Palestine.

then those haters keep referring to 1967, may be those need a reminder of who started the war in 1967 and who attacked whom?Let me rephrase that a little, who created a problem and provoked the war???Brief version would be here http://en.wikipedia....iki/Six-Day_War

Territorial changes: Israel captured the Gaza Strip and theSinai Peninsula from Egypt, the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) from Jordan, and the Golan Heights from Syria

So can haters please explain to me what does Palestine have to do with land from Egypt, Syria and Jordan????????

Keeping in mind that Westpac and Gaza has been given to Palestine

and back to the topic. Now none of the haters can claim that Hamas offered to recognize Israel, so sadly they have no one to blame for failure of peace talks and Gaza blockade but themselves.

Edited December 15, 2010 by kuffki

[kuffki]

"An armed resistance is a legal right for the Palestinian people and we will never abandon this legal right until all our land and all our holy sites are liberated,"

I would also love to see from the haters what section of the law does this statement fall under? and to which law book is it referring to?

What are those holy sites? that actually belong to Palestine?

So who is the aggressor again????

[siampolee]

With all the alleged persecution that the Jewish race, or the tribes of Israel as they are also known claim to have suffered over the centuries they of all people surely should have the greatest compassion for others and the greatest respect for human life.

The Japanese tread a delicate line and they inflicted dreadful atrocities on innocents ,the A.bomb convinced the Japanese that compassion and consultation is a better road to follow,even under duress from North Korea.

Why can't or why won't Israel follow the same route ?

Peace is not the desire of the Zionist movement but the expansion of the state of Israel at any price is their avowed aim regardless of world opinion and human life.

Liebusroom ring any bells ?

Your Zionist friends you so stoutly support are very well versed in the use of Gestapo style tactics and the same old rhetoric as Nazi's used in Germany.

Edited December 15, 2010 by siampolee

[elshaheen]

The global community is getting tired of Isreals continued fight against their brothers, but they won't listen and continue to ignore those nations whom they have on strings who support them with weapons, money and other resources. Pres. Obama just recently said to Isreali PM, no more money or weapons until you settle your problems and grow up.

Though, the christian church continues to be a pawn of Isreali (Zionists).

[Ulysses G.]

Pres. Obama just recently said to Isreali PM, no more money or weapons until you settle your problems and grow up.

Please provide a link to evidence of this statement- unless you just made it up.

[Ulysses G.]

Why can't or why won't Israel follow the same route ?

Because no one is sending suicide bombers and rockets into Japan and trying to slaughter the whole country. It is not all that hard to figure out.

Edited December 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[cdnvic]

If you guys can't debate without the name calling this discussion is over.

[hammered]

Hamas were elected into a majority in the Palestinian parliament not long ago. When they tried to take the "normal" route their victory was not accepted by democracy denying countries. Guess they have nowhere to go anymore. How many women and children has the Israeli military machine slaughtered for no reason at all. One thing is for sure a lot lot more than they have suffered back. On a level of terrorism the Israeli state apparatus far exceeds any Palestinian organization;). Considering the history of the Jewish people, who I admit are not the same as the Israeli state, it seesm bizarre that a state founded for such people would itself resort to such inhumanity to others as we see regularly now.

[Ulysses G.]

The Arabs have started every war and then they complain when Israel kicks their butts yet again. The things people have to do in self-defense.

[Xangsamhua]

Israel is a sovereign state whether their neighbours like it or not (Egypt have come to terms).

Israel has defended its claim and right to the land against the British and the Arab armies. Now it defends its people from terrorist organisations like Hamas.

Israel is a democratic state. The kind of state envisaged by Hamas is totalitarian, sexist and racist.

Would it be right to destroy a democratic and participatory state in order to sustain an atavistic, illiberal and revanchist one?

[Wallaby]

Israel is a sovereign state whether their neighbours like it or not (Egypt have come to terms).

Israel has defended its claim and right to the land against the British and the Arab armies. Now it defends its people from terrorist organisations like Hamas.

Israel is a democratic state. The kind of state envisaged by Hamas is totalitarian, sexist and racist.

Would it be right to destroy a democratic and participatory state in order to sustain an atavistic, illiberal and revanchist one?

Why should one support or not support a country because it doesn't have the type of government WE like. Who are we to dictate to people that they must have a democracy or that democracy is the best form of government.

[kuffki]

The global community is getting tired of Isreals continued fight against their brothers, but they won't listen and continue to ignore those nations whom they have on strings who support them with weapons, money and other resources. Pres. Obama just recently said to Isreali PM, no more money or weapons until you settle your problems and grow up.

Though, the christian church continues to be a pawn of Isreali (Zionists).

Actually this was said to Palestinian Government who has failed to keep their end of the bargain. It was not Obama who made the statement either.

[kuffki]

Hamas were elected into a majority in the Palestinian parliament not long ago. When they tried to take the "normal" route their victory was not accepted by democracy denying countries. Guess they have nowhere to go anymore. How many women and children has the Israeli military machine slaughtered for no reason at all. One thing is for sure a lot lot more than they have suffered back. On a level of terrorism the Israeli state apparatus far exceeds any Palestinian organization;). Considering the history of the Jewish people, who I admit are not the same as the Israeli state, it seesm bizarre that a state founded for such people would itself resort to such inhumanity to others as we see regularly now.

Hamas got 46% votes, this is hardly a majority.

You may want to chose your words carefully, especially words like slaughter.

If anything you should use this words when you menton Hamas, who fires rockets into civilians without even an aim.

Israel responds to rocket attacks which are fired from civilian houses.

The moment civilians chose to allow their house to be used as a rocket launching pad or decided to become a human shield, they are no longer civilians but military combatants.

If Hamas chose to fire rockets from the open field in the middle of the dessert, rest assured there would not be any casualties.FULL STOP!

[kuffki]

With all the alleged persecution that the Jewish race, or the tribes of Israel as they are also known claim to have suffered over the centuries they of all people surely should have the greatest compassion for others and the greatest respect for human life.

The Japanese tread a delicate line and they inflicted dreadful atrocities on innocents ,the A.bomb convinced the Japanese that compassion and consultation is a better road to follow,even under duress from North Korea.

Why can't or why won't Israel follow the same route ?

Peace is not the desire of the Zionist movement but the expansion of the state of Israel at any price is their avowed aim regardless of world opinion and human life.

Liebusroom ring any bells ?

Your Zionist friends you so stoutly support are very well versed in the use of Gestapo style tactics and the same old rhetoric as Nazi's used in Germany.

Man........ what a load of rubbish.It just shows you have non to very little idea about history in general,WW2, History of Israel or anything else related.

[kuffki]

Israel is a sovereign state whether their neighbours like it or not (Egypt have come to terms).

Israel has defended its claim and right to the land against the British and the Arab armies. Now it defends its people from terrorist organisations like Hamas.

Israel is a democratic state. The kind of state envisaged by Hamas is totalitarian, sexist and racist.

Would it be right to destroy a democratic and participatory state in order to sustain an atavistic, illiberal and revanchist one?

Why should one support or not support a country because it doesn't have the type of government WE like. Who are we to dictate to people that they must have a democracy or that democracy is the best form of government.

If you do not fall in the folloing

1. Israeli

2. Jewish

3. Palestinian

4. an Arab

Its not your business to support either country, because simply it has nothing to do with you. If you are such a caring and compassionate person, who really wants to support and help, then you should be over in the middle east helping the side you support.

Or be fair and neutral gathering all the facts rather then just posting hateful statements against either side.

As i have now said on other related threads. All Pro Israel posters never blame Palestinians as a nation for the problem, only Hamas, while all the Anti Israel posters hate and blame all Jews word wide in their posts. That already speaks volume in itself does not it?!

Edited December 15, 2010 by kuffki

[whybother]

But they were there first, weren't they?

[cdnvic]

Before hyperbole results in another flame war, you can be critical of Israeli or the Palestinian governments without being anti-Israeli or anti-Palestinian. Please moderate the tone of your posts everyone so that we can have an intelligent discussion.

[hammered]

Hamas were elected into a majority in the Palestinian parliament not long ago. When they tried to take the "normal" route their victory was not accepted by democracy denying countries. Guess they have nowhere to go anymore. How many women and children has the Israeli military machine slaughtered for no reason at all. One thing is for sure a lot lot more than they have suffered back. On a level of terrorism the Israeli state apparatus far exceeds any Palestinian organization;). Considering the history of the Jewish people, who I admit are not the same as the Israeli state, it seesm bizarre that a state founded for such people would itself resort to such inhumanity to others as we see regularly now.

Hamas got 46% votes, this is hardly a majority.

You may want to chose your words carefully, especially words like slaughter.

If anything you should use this words when you menton Hamas, who fires rockets into civilians without even an aim.

Israel responds to rocket attacks which are fired from civilian houses.

The moment civilians chose to allow their house to be used as a rocket launching pad or decided to become a human shield, they are no longer civilians but military combatants.

If Hamas chose to fire rockets from the open field in the middle of the dessert, rest assured there would not be any casualties.FULL STOP!

Plenty of reports contradict your claims. Google easily finds them, so I wont post hundreds here. The Israeli military (please note I always refer to governments and institutions in respect to these things and not to Israelis or Jews some of whom would even agree with me) has slaughtered far more women and children than any Palestinian group.

A radical change in US government has just occurred based on a 40% turn out of the electorate. It is still democracy. Hamas won an overall majority of seats in an election that was seen as one of the fairest in the middle east. However, decided not to accept the result in what can only be described as a denial of democracy. What percent doesnt really matter as they had a majority, which is more than Netanyahu can claim although I wouldn't dispute he is a democratically elected leader.

[Ulysses G.]

Hamas won an overall majority of seats in an election that was seen as one of the fairest in the middle east. However, decided not to accept the result in what can only be described as a denial of democracy.

A terrorist group that advocates butchring every Jew in Israel and never making peace won the election. They would have been left alone if they had stopped the violence, but they didn't..

Why did the gaza war start?

what happened that made it start

• Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

The Israelis, about four years ago, gave Gaza to the Palestinians. It had been occupied with Israeli settlers and the Israeli government made the Israelis move. There was infrastructure there although life was fraught with terrorist violence, but I suppose anyone living in Israel accepts that reality to an extent.

The Palestinians elected Hamas to leadership. A fight between the Fatah party and the Hamas party began since Hamas didn't do such a great job of leading the people anywhere. They (Hamas) refused help from Egypt (which has also walled off Gaza, but no one seems to point any fingers at them). Infrastructure in Gaza was destroyed by these internal battles, and the brutality and barbarity between these rival factions is legendary. Hamas spent its resources and time digging tunnels to attack Israel and acquiring missiles (probably with the help of Iran, the biggest destabilizing force in the region, just like they helped Hezbollah launch missile/rocket attacks a couple of years ago.)

Anyway, since Israel agreed to give Gaza to the Palestinians, the Palestinians (thanks to Hamas) have fired thousands of rockets into Israel, and continue to, targeting civilian targets, not military targets. Within Gaza, these attacks are launched within city limits, right where civilians live. When Israelis launch strategic strikes against Hamas, there is no way to avoid civilian casualties because of how Hamas has entrenched itself.

Terrorist leaders are calling this the third infitada, and saying they will destroy Israel this time. It is hard to negotiate with people whose only desire is your utter destruction, and who will settle for nothing less. Ask anyone from the Clinton or Bush administrations who has ever been involved with a "peace" process between the Israelis and Palestinians which side has been impossible to deal with. I wish things were different, I wish the Palestinians honestly wanted a two-state solution.

http://answers.yahoo...31135027AA80lOq

Edited December 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[hammered]

Hamas won an overall majority of seats in an election that was seen as one of the fairest in the middle east. However, decided not to accept the result in what can only be described as a denial of democracy.

A terrorist group that advocates butchring every Jew in Israel and never making peace won the election. They would have been left alone if they had stopped the violence, but they didn't..

Why did the gaza war start?

what happened that made it start

• Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

The Israelis, about four years ago, gave Gaza to the Palestinians. It had been occupied with Israeli settlers and the Israeli government made the Israelis move. There was infrastructure there although life was fraught with terrorist violence, but I suppose anyone living in Israel accepts that reality to an extent.

The Palestinians elected Hamas to leadership. A fight between the Fatah party and the Hamas party began since Hamas didn't do such a great job of leading the people anywhere. They (Hamas) refused help from Egypt (which has also walled off Gaza, but no one seems to point any fingers at them). Infrastructure in Gaza was destroyed by these internal battles, and the brutality and barbarity between these rival factions is legendary. Hamas spent its resources and time digging tunnels to attack Israel and acquiring missiles (probably with the help of Iran, the biggest destabilizing force in the region, just like they helped Hezbollah launch missile/rocket attacks a couple of years ago.)

Anyway, since Israel agreed to give Gaza to the Palestinians, the Palestinians (thanks to Hamas) have fired thousands of rockets into Israel, and continue to, targeting civilian targets, not military targets. Within Gaza, these attacks are launched within city limits, right where civilians live. When Israelis launch strategic strikes against Hamas, there is no way to avoid civilian casualties because of how Hamas has entrenched itself.

Terrorist leaders are calling this the third infitada, and saying they will destroy Israel this time. It is hard to negotiate with people whose only desire is your utter destruction, and who will settle for nothing less. Ask anyone from the Clinton or Bush administrations who has ever been involved with a "peace" process between the Israelis and Palestinians which side has been impossible to deal with. I wish things were different, I wish the Palestinians honestly wanted a two-state solution.

http://answers.yahoo...31135027AA80lOq

In Palestine there are many that would not view Hamas as terrorists but would view the Israeli military as terrorists. There are no absolutes.

[JUDAS]

Jeez, thankfully the few Israelis I know actually seem to see both sides of the argument.

[Xangsamhua]

Hamas were elected into a majority in the Palestinian parliament not long ago. When they tried to take the "normal" route their victory was not accepted by democracy denying countries. Guess they have nowhere to go anymore. How many women and children has the Israeli military machine slaughtered for no reason at all. One thing is for sure a lot lot more than they have suffered back. On a level of terrorism the Israeli state apparatus far exceeds any Palestinian organization;). Considering the history of the Jewish people, who I admit are not the same as the Israeli state, it seesm bizarre that a state founded for such people would itself resort to such inhumanity to others as we see regularly now.

Hamas got 46% votes, this is hardly a majority.

You may want to chose your words carefully, especially words like slaughter.

If anything you should use this words when you menton Hamas, who fires rockets into civilians without even an aim.

Israel responds to rocket attacks which are fired from civilian houses.

The moment civilians chose to allow their house to be used as a rocket launching pad or decided to become a human shield, they are no longer civilians but military combatants.

If Hamas chose to fire rockets from the open field in the middle of the dessert, rest assured there would not be any casualties.FULL STOP!

Plenty of reports contradict your claims. Google easily finds them, so I wont post hundreds here. The Israeli military (please note I always refer to governments and institutions in respect to these things and not to Israelis or Jews some of whom would even agree with me) has slaughtered far more women and children than any Palestinian group.

A radical change in US government has just occurred based on a 40% turn out of the electorate. It is still democracy. Hamas won an overall majority of seats in an election that was seen as one of the fairest in the middle east. However, decided not to accept the result in what can only be described as a denial of democracy. What percent doesnt really matter as they had a majority, which is more than Netanyahu can claim although I wouldn't dispute he is a democratically elected leader.

What would Hamas do if they were defeated at the next election by a party that wants to recognize Israel and come to terms with them?

Silly question, of course, but I'm mindful of Bernard Lewis, the Arabist's, quote that for Islamists democracy means "one man, one vote, once" (The Crisis of Islam, Phoenix 2004, p. 96). Note also Huntington's criteria: "[Y]ou can call a country a democracy when it has made two consecutive, peaceful changes of government via free elections. By specifying two elections, Huntington rules out regimes that follow the procedure that one acute observer has called "one man, one vote, once." http://www.mtholyoke...trel/blewis.htm

The next elections in Palestine will be interesting when and if they occur.

The presidential election was supposed to have occurred in early January 2009, and the legislative elections was to have occurred in 2010.^[1] Reports in December 2008, suggested both elections would be held in April 2009.^[2] The elections could not be celebrated so far due to the intra-Palestinian conflict between Fatah and Hamas following the Gaza War. (Wikipedia: Next Palestinian General Election).

There are times to comment on other people's/state's affairs. As moral creatures we do so naturally and are obliged to do so and at times to take action where necessary in order to maintain peace and a civilized (read moral) order. To argue otherwise is to adopt the stance of authoritarian states like China and Burma. Had intervention from France and Britain taken place before the occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1938, the world could have been spared much death and destruction, and the Ashkenazi Jews who died in the Shoah might have continued living in Europe. Having said that, it must be acknowledged that it's often hard to know what to do at the time.

[Ulysses G.]

In Palestine there are many that would not view Hamas as terrorists but would view the Israeli military as terrorists.

They are either in Hamas or voted for them, so no big surprise..

Edited December 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

Israel is a sovereign state whether their neighbours like it or not (Egypt have come to terms).

Israel has defended its claim and right to the land against the British and the Arab armies. Now it defends its people from terrorist organisations like Hamas.

Israel is a democratic state. The kind of state envisaged by Hamas is totalitarian, sexist and racist.

Would it be right to destroy a democratic and participatory state in order to sustain an atavistic, illiberal and revanchist one?

Why should one support or not support a country because it doesn't have the type of government WE like. Who are we to dictate to people that they must have a democracy or that democracy is the best form of government.

If you do not fall in the folloing

1. Israeli

2. Jewish

3. Palestinian

4. an Arab

Its not your business to support either country, because simply it has nothing to do with you. If you are such a caring and compassionate person, who really wants to support and help, then you should be over in the middle east helping the side you support.

Or be fair and neutral gathering all the facts rather then just posting hateful statements against either side.

As i have now said on other related threads. All Pro Israel posters never blame Palestinians as a nation for the problem, only Hamas, while all the Anti Israel posters hate and blame all Jews word wide in their posts. That already speaks volume in itself does not it?!

I don't fall into YOUR categories but why is it not my business to support either? I guess that means the US govt shouldn't be so supportive of the Israel govt. Perhaps the Israel govt should point that out and tell them to stop the flow of money and arms support.

Do you think if there is a war and the US asks for help in supporting it that the Australians won't send troops, they always have. The world is getting smaller and conflicts have repurcussions world wide.

I suppose with your way of thinking Australia shouldn't have sent troops in WW1, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Please point out my hateful remark?

Edited December 15, 2010 by Wallaby

[kuffki]

Hamas were elected into a majority in the Palestinian parliament not long ago. When they tried to take the "normal" route their victory was not accepted by democracy denying countries. Guess they have nowhere to go anymore. How many women and children has the Israeli military machine slaughtered for no reason at all. One thing is for sure a lot lot more than they have suffered back. On a level of terrorism the Israeli state apparatus far exceeds any Palestinian organization;). Considering the history of the Jewish people, who I admit are not the same as the Israeli state, it seesm bizarre that a state founded for such people would itself resort to such inhumanity to others as we see regularly now.

Hamas got 46% votes, this is hardly a majority.

You may want to chose your words carefully, especially words like slaughter.

If anything you should use this words when you menton Hamas, who fires rockets into civilians without even an aim.

Israel responds to rocket attacks which are fired from civilian houses.

The moment civilians chose to allow their house to be used as a rocket launching pad or decided to become a human shield, they are no longer civilians but military combatants.

If Hamas chose to fire rockets from the open field in the middle of the dessert, rest assured there would not be any casualties.FULL STOP!

Plenty of reports contradict your claims. Google easily finds them, so I wont post hundreds here. The Israeli military (please note I always refer to governments and institutions in respect to these things and not to Israelis or Jews some of whom would even agree with me) has slaughtered far more women and children than any Palestinian group.

A radical change in US government has just occurred based on a 40% turn out of the electorate. It is still democracy. Hamas won an overall majority of seats in an election that was seen as one of the fairest in the middle east. However, decided not to accept the result in what can only be described as a denial of democracy. What percent doesnt really matter as they had a majority, which is more than Netanyahu can claim although I wouldn't dispute he is a democratically elected leader.

This figures are the official figures, everything else is rubbish trying to justify Hamas being in power.

Look at what happened, voters were pretty much split and rather then forming a unity government Hamas chose to attack Fatah.

As a result Palestine was split into half, thats already evidence that Hamas only got half voters if that, otherwise they would of had more then Gaza under their control.

Also you will note Hamas was involved in what's called in Thailand vote buying. Under the pretense of care, they were giving out food, and some money and promising people to give them $10 000 to build a house. Once they got voted, people got big fat nothing.

There has already been a number of segments on BBC and CNN, interviewing people who have also said that this was the case, they were promised the world if Hamas comes to power, but few years later-they get nothing and if anything their situation got much worse then before.

Funny enough when they were asked if they blame Israel for their problems, almost all replied yes, but first they blamed Hamas. Of course in interviews faces were blacked out as people did not want to be identified.

So i think it goes to show what and who Hamas really is and what their agenda was and is and wil be, and people is the last thing on their agenda.

As for Israel killing more then they have had killed-yes that is true, but again and i am pretty sick of posting again and again.

Israel responds to attacks. Israel always targets rocket launching pads and rocket storage buildings. Prior to a strike, Israel always drop leaflets advising civilians of the strike and advising them to evacuate the area.

is there anything else Israel can do??? i do not think so. Hamas needs to stop hiding between civilians and start to act like real men.

They have big enough mouth, time to back it up wit actions, instead of hiding behind women and children

[kuffki]

Israel is a sovereign state whether their neighbours like it or not (Egypt have come to terms).

Israel has defended its claim and right to the land against the British and the Arab armies. Now it defends its people from terrorist organisations like Hamas.

Israel is a democratic state. The kind of state envisaged by Hamas is totalitarian, sexist and racist.

Would it be right to destroy a democratic and participatory state in order to sustain an atavistic, illiberal and revanchist one?

Why should one support or not support a country because it doesn't have the type of government WE like. Who are we to dictate to people that they must have a democracy or that democracy is the best form of government.

If you do not fall in the folloing

1. Israeli

2. Jewish

3. Palestinian

4. an Arab

Its not your business to support either country, because simply it has nothing to do with you. If you are such a caring and compassionate person, who really wants to support and help, then you should be over in the middle east helping the side you support.

Or be fair and neutral gathering all the facts rather then just posting hateful statements against either side.

As i have now said on other related threads. All Pro Israel posters never blame Palestinians as a nation for the problem, only Hamas, while all the Anti Israel posters hate and blame all Jews word wide in their posts. That already speaks volume in itself does not it?!

I don't fall into YOUR categories but why is it not my business to support either? I guess that means the US govt shouldn't be so supportive of the Israel govt. Perhaps the Israel govt should point that out and tell them to stop the flow of money and arms support.

Do you think if there is a war and the US asks for help in supporting it that the Australians won't send troops, they always have. The world is getting smaller and conflicts have repurcussions world wide.

I suppose with your way of thinking Australia shouldn't have sent troops in WW1, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Please point out my hateful remark?

And i rest my case. Perhaps you were not aware, but US Government gives money to Palestine for nothing, so does European Union and Arab Union!!!

Perhaps you were also not aware, but while US supports Israel with arms and some other things, in return Israel provides US with intelligence which US could never get on its own, plus all the military innovations.

Since you such a supporter, could you please list your actual support which you have provided, such as donating money or going over or what have you done to show your support besides posting on Thai Visa???

So far you have not made any hateful posts on this thread, but sure have made plenty on other threads on the similar subject.