Hamas leader says it will never recognize Israel

[geriatrickid]

pkspeaker you have a tendancy to fabricate your facts and to twist statements to justify your views. Let's deal with some of the more blatant false statements.

[geriat-you seem to live in your own world, a world most likly created by various zionist propaganda website.. where as I tend to educate myself using more mainstream media, newspapers, books published by reputable publishing houses

I deal in the real world of facts. I am trained in the natural and life sciences. There is no room for fanciful statements. In my world if one cannot substantiate one's facts, one is ostracized. As such, it carries over to my approach on other aspects of my life, such as responding to hateful misleading statements on an internet forum. I

1. You claim there is this huge issue Syrian Jews they are forced to carry id cards etc. id cards in israel also deliniate that the person is jew or arab and i'm against it in both cases..but the Jews from these arab countries have largy immigrated to developed countries and israel.. it's only obvious that few of these jews are interested in returning to their arab country, but if they wanted to go back and fight for these equal rights I'm sure they would have international support-if the israeli-palestinian conflict is settled than it would be that much easier

Your statement is false. The old Israeli id cards had a notation for ethnicity and this was due in part to arab demands that they be treated as a distinct population. Whatever, the reason, the id cards were changed in 2005. There is no mention of ethnicity. The fact of the matter is that any of the former Arab's of the jewish faith that were deported/expelled are not going to return to countries where they will be targeted for harassment and death. You know that, so why play this game of yours?

and you claim this justifies israeli oppressive policies. an issue of injustice in 1948 is one thing, but I keep talking about the appox. 5 million Palestinians that are in Israel/Palestine right now.. and you draw a comparison between 4000 people and 5 million people.

For someone that is prone to lecture mere simple working class folks like me on morality and the concept of right and wrong, then surely you should appreciate that there is no distinguishing between the civil rights of one or 1000. The 5 million people classified as refugees are not true refugees. They are refugees because the arab nations have treated them as such. You have not acknowledged the fact that these 5million are the decendants of approximately 800,000 to 1,000,000 arabs. tehre wouldn't be a refugee issue if countries like Lebanon allowed these arabs to have citizenship or to have jobs outside of a few allowed trades. Why is an an arab of the jewish faith that was expelled from Egypt and that settled in England less worthy of consideration than an arab that is not jewish that is living in Gaza? Neither is living in their home of origin.

2. You claim that in this tiny sliver of land, the Gaza strip- was inhabited by "beduin and egyptian people", but then the "Palestinians came and took their land" .. and "there is no equality there" because there is a conflict there between the original inhabitants and the Palestinians.

I tend to read every article about israel/palestine that i read in newspapers and magazines, and what I watch on the news, there is no real conflict there that you describe, if anything because the land there is so small there is simply too little to fight over, there is a conflict between the Palestinians in Gaza and Israel.

the accepted reality of the Gaza strip is that Gaza, the WB, and modern day Israel were all part of British Palestine, and the Arab peoples of that country had equal rights with their jewish immigrant counterparts under the British government, when israel was created large numbers of refugees were forced into gaza, today there are large refugee camps there and the population of this little sliver of land is 1.5million people, the most densly populated place on earth.. The population in Gaza overwhelmingly considers themselves palestinian, even israeli arabs overwhelmingly consider themselves Palestinian Israelis,

Again you are making a false statement. The residents of Gaza were not forced by the Israelis to go to Gaza. They went there during the 1948 war because it was Egyptian territory and they were told,to seek refuge there until the arab nations destroyed Israel. As you know, the Arabs failed in that attempt. Of course the population considers itself Palestinian. They drove off the original inhabitants. If a few hundred thousand arabs were to move into Bremen forcing out the original inhabitants over time and then declaring the former city of Bremen, Arabia would that make it Arabia?

Israeli arabs most certainly do not consider themselves Palestinians. For the most part they want nothing to do with the corruption and petty political bickering that distinguishes the PLA. The Israeli arabs have their own set of grievances and aspirations. Some of them are quite justified and most have nothing to do with the Palestinian arabs. When the hijackers crashed the jets into the WTC, the Israeli arabs were shocked and dismayed like everyone else, while the Palestinians celebrated by handing out candies in Gaza. When Iraq invaded Kuwait the Palestinians celebrated and supported the invasion, while the Israeli arabs, like many other arabs in the region were dismayed.

clearly your agenda is to divide people, which has always been the zionist agenda, like there is a christian arab, a muslim arab, a beduin, a druze(all these pople speak arabic as a first language btw) where is in america or in a democracy everyone is just an 'American' .. why should people be divided into these subgroups even if there is a conflict over land?

I do not have an agenda. You have never worked with Palestinians or Arabs have you? You are expressing a view that they are all the same. A homogeneous community. They are not. There are some very diverse views, many of which disagree within the group. You have previously lectured me on logic. You might want to follow your own advice. So what if arab is the first language for some people? You are saying that because they all speak the same language they are all the same and share the same views. Tell that to the Australians and English in Thai Visa. They share the same language with Americans, but I think they would be offended to learn that because they share the same base language they should be considered the same. The Arab jews' first language is also arabic. I suppose in your world, their views do not matter because they are jews.

I also forgot to mention 1 thing about these other places like for example Sudan .. Sudan does not have a 'special relationship' with the US and EU. Israel with all their human rights abuses does.. that means billions in foreign aid, tax deductible donations and free trade agreements that eliminate tariifs on imported israeli goods.. a country like israel should not be entitled to a special relationship with western democracies.

What are you going on about? Sudan is where arabs are engaging in a genocide against black africans. It has nothing to do with trade with Israel or the USA. The Afrcans didn't start the hostilities. it is part of the long standing racial prejudice arabs have always had against black africans.

[cdnvic]

We have two topics going on this right now and this one is just the same arguments looping back on one another. So it's time to close.