Labor Law

[kaosoi]

An appeal to anyone who knows the labour laws/is a lawyer .

The situation

In February I started working for company in Bangkok owned by an Englishman. This man told me the company was a reputable firm with high standards - they advertise themselves as experienced with high levels of integrity on their homepage etc etc. He told me though he could not give me a work visa at that moment but assured me one would be forthcoming ("just a technicality"). I did not have a contract either. The closest thing was an email mentioning these things and some semblance of T&C. I was also to be working purely on commission but this would change too.

On starting at the company though I found that the advertisement from him was false - there had been 400% turnover of staff in two years, he frequently bullied Thai staff (who then quit), he lied to clients about who was working there, avoided paying taxes and was generally unpleasant to work with. Also, I found out that the last ex-pat he employed has sued him for unpaid wages and the one before that had walked out after the proposed visa/contract was not forthcoming. Similarly, the ex-pat in his Vietnam office was illegally employed. I found him a "dreadful" (unethical, insincere, bullying and exploitative, lazy, absent, unsupportive, unstrustworthy) person to work with and, indeed, he was not forthcoming with visa or contract. Even after I left he asked one of the remaining staff to lie for him and claim she did the work I had done (she called me to tell me this and I have an email referring to it).

I left the office but he still owes me a sizeable amount of money but refuses to pay it.

The questions

I have started using a Thai lawyer to recover my unpaid salary but I think I have made a mistake. She is very vague in her information and is very mild in her character - not the person to challenge this guy. He is arrogant and will intimidate her. She said we would put pressure on him...but it seems her idea of pressure is to just call him and ask him for the money to be paid. That will not work, What he is doing is illegal but he is using the fact that it would take up to 2 years to recover the funds in court and incur large legal expenses.

I have heard mixed things - I spoke to another lawyer (a farang) who said that I should file a complaint with the labour court and put him on the defensive. My Thai lawyer said though that labour court was not for me because I did not have a contract and work visa....mixed messages from different lawyers.

1. Does anyone know if I can report this guy to the Ministry of Labour, Labour Court, Immigration....and what the consequences would be?

2. Specifically how might his license be in jeopardy?

3. Any other recourse I may have?

Thanks.

Edited December 21, 2010 by kaosoi

[jonclark]

I think that you have lost your money as without a contract or visa / WP / tax receipts there is no real evidence that you worked here and if you did you did so illegally (whether you did so knowingly or otherwise is irrelevant).

My own opinion is that you report this company to immigration, tax office (does he or the company pay tax?) and labour dept as illegally employing foreign workers etc. (this may result in other innocent foreigner workers getting snared) but in terms of getting some form of 'justice' this is the best i think you could expect.

Alternatively you could try using a Thai friend to report the company to Consumer Protection (but you'd have to think long and hard about that scenario)

If the company is a shady as you suggest, it only takes a few tugs on a couple of loose threads for the entire cloth to disintegrate.

Or you may well have to chalk this one up to experience and use the lessons learned in future endeavors.

Good luck

[Mario2008]

The labour office is the right place to complain. They can take the case to labour court.

Normally they won't make an issue out of the fact that you don't have a work permit.

[IMA_FARANG]

To be frank: here's your problem. You don't and never did have a contract with your boss, did you?

Personally I believe your story...there are a lot of sleese balls out there who take advantage of others that work for them. But the plain fact is without written proof, everything you say it just your word against his. So you need DOCUMENTS to make your case in any complaint against him.

Even if the labor court is sympathetic to you, they will almost certainly do nothing in your favor unless you have the documents to prove what you say is true.

Your former boss can say that you were a poor worker, that you paid others to do your work,and that all your charges against him are just you trying to get revenge for him letting you go. Unless you can PROVE that not to be true...I don't think you have a chance of beating him.

And the fact that you didn't have a work permit, and took the job without one...even if as you say they promised you one "later"... will work against you. He may have called it a "technicallity" but the Ministry of Labor won't think of it as a "technicallity". The fact that you accepted a job knowing you needed a work permit, but didn't have one, COULD be interpeted by an unsympathetic Ministry of Labor as just another Farang trying to work outside the law even knowing it was illegal. In that case you start the game with one strike against you already.

I could be wrong, but I would just accept that I learned a hard lesson, and get as far away from it as possible. I don't think you can do much legally to him for compensation. Also if he really does have money...he may also have "friends" in Thailand.

Do you?

Edited December 22, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[jdinasia]

The labour office is the right place to complain. They can take the case to labour court.

Normally they won't make an issue out of the fact that you don't have a work permit.

Concur.

The Ministry of Labor is the direction to go. Other legal avenues very likely won't bear fruit unless there are multiple (I think 10 is the magic number) with the police.

[Naam]

The labour office is the right place to complain. They can take the case to labour court.

Normally they won't make an issue out of the fact that you don't have a work permit.

as opposed to the one zillion amateur legal consultants in Thaivisa who forecast draconian punishments such as castration, 20 years hard labour in Thai coal mines, wife and children sold into slavery and then deportation of the illegal worker.

[clinique]

I have the name & contact details of a Bkk lawyer (Farang & US embassy recommended) who has handled issues like this ie: collecting $$) for 30+ years. If you want details PM me.

[kaosoi]

I was told by one lawyer that I could not use labour court because I did not have a contract...but I was told the opposite by another.

Leaves me none the wiser.

[Gumballl]

... there had been 400% turnover of staff in two years...

My math skills may be a bit rusty, but how can this possibly be correct? Were the same people hired four separate times, and in each case, they quit the company or were fired?

[stament]

On 12/24/2010 at 11:33 PM, Gumballl said:

My math skills may be a bit rusty, but how can this possibly be correct? Were the same people hired four separate times, and in each case, they quit the company or were fired?

@Gumballl

 

100 employees in a company at one time. If all leave within a year that's 100% turnover on the 100. But what happens if each employee lasts only 3 months. Then 400 have left despite you only having a workforce of 100 at any given time.

 

Got it? It is possible.