China Bars English Words In All Publications

[Ulysses G.]

Are there perfectly acceptable Chinese words to substitute?

[tropo]

It's get old - people making fun of how non-English speakers prounounce words. How well do you pronounce Chinese?

Like this:

Chy neez :jap:

NO.

Try again. Here's the phonetic pronunciation:

Zhōngguó

[jdinasia]

when is the chinese equivalent of april 1?

Pretty much every day mixed with Hell night. I love the calls in this thread accepting this nonsense on the basis of "linguistic purity" ... strangely we we live in the 21st century. World trade and travel require new words, new technology requires new words, new words must be added to a language. This reactionary repressive response by the Chinese government (those same folks that jail Nobel laureates etc ....) certainly will not help them in the years to come. Think about the concept of "linguistic purity" and change the first word ..... is this where the Chinese are heading?

[doggie888888]

Are there perfectly acceptable Chinese words to substitute?

Feng shui?

[jdinasia]

Are there perfectly acceptable Chinese words to substitute?

Falun Gong ---- as far as I know there are no English equivalent words for this persecuted religious minority in China, so we use the Chinese word.

edit ---- is the word "Tibet" Chinese?

Edited December 25, 2010 by jdinasia

[tropo]

when is the chinese equivalent of april 1?

Pretty much every day mixed with Hell night. I love the calls in this thread accepting this nonsense on the basis of "linguistic purity" ... strangely we we live in the 21st century. World trade and travel require new words, new technology requires new words, new words must be added to a language. This reactionary repressive response by the Chinese government (those same folks that jail Nobel laureates etc ....) certainly will not help them in the years to come. Think about the concept of "linguistic purity" and change the first word ..... is this where the Chinese are heading?

I wouldn't worry too much about where China is heading. It won't be long before they can buy the US and everyone will be learning Chinese.

[fvw53]

Moskito writes

QUOTE

I like to understand, write and speak a little bit english. But whatsgoing on these times in other countrys is rediculous sometimes.

Forexample listen ThaiTV or look at Thai Magazines. Lots of English wordswhich nobody here understands.

Try to realize you have suddenly some russian or chinese words all over your language and you know what I am talking about.

UNQUOTE

Doesn't Moskito have a point?

I speak fluently five languages and still read a few more, so I have no problems.

Many times when I see Thai commercials with English words on TV or bilboard I ask my Thai wife if her 80 years old mother would understand this and of course she says "no"

On the other side there are indeed many technical English words which are known all over the world by educated people and which are very hard to translate in Asian languages : those technical terms are mostly not used in communications with the general public.

I think it is all a matter of balance.

People speaking only English cannot judge the cultural sensitivity of this problem.

[tombkk]

Are there perfectly acceptable Chinese words to substitute?

Feng shui?

Guanxi would be another such word. You'll find it in English-laguage text books for management students.

These two words are example for which it is unavoidable to use the word in its original language. As the Chinese government apparently said, the Chinese words should be used "unless the English owrd is unavoidable".

The Germans do the same, by the way. Not by law, but by culture: There is a German word for everything which will be used unless it is unavoidable to use the English word. WTO is Welthandelsorganisation, FTA is Freihandelsabkommen, etc. I don't know whether EDV (Elekronische Datanverarbeitungsanlage) is still used for Computer, though.

There is absolutely no reason to use anglicisms if there are perfectly good words in the local language which people of all age groups would understand.

[tombkk]

I think everyone is missing what is actually being said. They are not banning the use of English words, but they are banning the mixing of any foreign language and Chinese, so an article in Chinese needs to be all in Chinese and not have English or other lanuage words mixed in. Reason behind this is to stop any confusion or purposely using a mix to be vague on a subject.

Please read carefully the following quote from the article.

"It is banned to mix at will foreign language phrases such as English words or abbreviations with Chinese publications, creating words of vague meaning that are not exactly Chinese or of any foreign language,"

EXACTLY and thanks for teaching those who cannot read english and interpret the meaning at the same time.

I would like to add my agreement to this too. Defending the use of foreign words if not necessary is elitist in any language.

[tropo]

I would like to add my agreement to this too. Defending the use of foreign words if not necessary is elitist in any language.

I wouldn't call it "elitist", I would call it ignorance of native English speakers. Most native English speakers only speak one language.

[jdinasia]

I would like to add my agreement to this too. Defending the use of foreign words if not necessary is elitist in any language.

I wouldn't call it "elitist", I would call it ignorance of native English speakers. Most native English speakers only speak one language.

Care to back that with any facts?

[Tod Daniels]

<SNIP> I would call it ignorance of native English speakers. Most native English speakers only speak one language.

By that nearly unintelligible post ; did you mean ignorance exhibited by native Engrish speakers due to the fact they can speak engrish only? Or did you mean people that don't speak engrish are ignorant of the needs of people who are engrish speakers , or were you goin' for a more obtuse or obscure meaningless meaning.

Just by chance, engrish ain't your native language, is it? (BTW: that’s a rhetorical question, which means an answer is neither required nor wanted).

BACK ON TOPIC. ..

FWIW: pick up ANY thai language magazine, read the interviews of thai dara's or other hi-so people of note and you'll find engrish words littering nearly EVERY single sentence. Those words always give me fits, as I'll be reading along and hit a strangely spelled thai word with a 'garan' or three in it, and hafta sound it out. Finally it'll dawn on me they're using an engrish word just writing it in thai. Common ones are เซ็กส์ซี่ (sexy), บิกินี (bikini), แว็กซ์ (wax), สเปค ('spec' short for specification) or ซิกแพ็ค (six pack in reference to abs). Even the thai newspapers use them over and over, so it's not just an isolated thing.

Didn't the powers-that-be here who allegedly control the 'purity of the thai language' come out in the papers not to long ago, bemoaning the fact that people were answering their phones with 'hello' versus the phrase สวัสดี (sa^L wat^L dee^M). Which BTW was coined by the late Prof. Phraya Upakit Sinlapsan of Chulalongkorn University in around 1935, and isn't even a thai word, but pali or sanskrit! It was an effort to stop thais from using up until that point in time the more colloquial or standard forms of addressing someone, "Have you eaten yet?", or "Have you taken a shower yet?"

Language's are alive, and need to be thought of as living entities. They morph, grow, change based on the demands put on it by the society as a whole. Any language that doesn't change or tries to remain static is due for the trash heap. The more 'connected' the world becomes the more the languages in every country (that does any international business) will change,

While, I can understand the myopic Chinese mindset (as they've never been known for forward thinking); we'll see if it'll play out, and also how well it'll play out to international companies doing mega million dollar marketing campaigns in China for their imported product(s).

[tombkk]

Language's are alive, and need to be thought of as living entities. They morph, grow, change based on the demands put on it by the society as a whole. Any language that doesn't change or tries to remain static is due for the trash heap. The more 'connected' the world becomes the more the languages in every country (that does any international business) will change,

While, I can understand the myopic Chinese mindset (as they've never been known for forward thinking); we'll see if it'll play out, and also how well it'll play out to international companies doing mega million dollar marketing campaigns in China for their imported product(s).

Yes, languages change. But is it necessary to show how international you (or the Thai daras, rather, and some news editors in china) are by using English words unnecessarily, and thus making your message less intelligible to the normal folks? Yes, for the Thai dara that would apply, as they have to show their superiority (hence elitism), but I full agree with the Chinese government that the normal folks should be able to understand the news.

I find the Chinese very forward-thinking in many respects, let's talk again in ten years how their policies worked out.

[tropo]

I would like to add my agreement to this too. Defending the use of foreign words if not necessary is elitist in any language.

I wouldn't call it "elitist", I would call it ignorance of native English speakers. Most native English speakers only speak one language.

Care to back that with any facts?

It doesn't need to be backed up with "facts" because it is so obvious to anyone with half a brain. Most educated non-English speakers learn English as a necessity in the commerical world. Few English speakers bother with a second language and even if they do, there isn't an easy choice for a second language. Why do you think nearly half a billion Chinese are learning English?

[tropo]

<SNIP> I would call it ignorance of native English speakers. Most native English speakers only speak one language.

By that nearly unintelligible post ; did you mean ignorance exhibited by native Engrish speakers due to the fact they can speak engrish only? Or did you mean people that don't speak engrish are ignorant of the needs of people who are engrish speakers , or were you goin' for a more obtuse or obscure meaningless meaning.

Just by chance, engrish ain't your native language, is it? (BTW: that's a rhetorical question, which means an answer is neither required nor wanted).

You've answered your own question Todd. You're a perfect example of an arrogant and ignorant (possibly) native English speaker.

[tombkk]

It doesn't need to be backed up with "facts" because it is so obvious to anyone with half a brain. Most educated non-English speakers learn English as a necessity in the commerical world. Few English speakers bother with a second language and even if they do, there isn't an easy choice for a second language. Why do you think nearly half a billion Chinese are learning English?

Why aren't half a billion Westerners learning Chinese, I wonder.

The six world languages are: English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese (Mandarin), and Arabic. Depending on which part of the world you are doing business in, you will need to choose the language you want to learn.

I find the idea of trying to do business in China without speaking Chinese quite futile, in the long-term sustainability sense of course. Feel free to insist on your Chinese business partners to speak English, and let me know in ten years what the long-term outcome was. Good luck.

[tropo]

It doesn't need to be backed up with "facts" because it is so obvious to anyone with half a brain. Most educated non-English speakers learn English as a necessity in the commerical world. Few English speakers bother with a second language and even if they do, there isn't an easy choice for a second language. Why do you think nearly half a billion Chinese are learning English?

Why aren't half a billion Westerners learning Chinese, I wonder.

The six world languages are: English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese (Mandarin), and Arabic. Depending on which part of the world you are doing business in, you will need to choose the language you want to learn.

I find the idea of trying to do business in China without speaking Chinese quite futile, in the long-term sustainability sense of course. Feel free to insist on your Chinese business partners to speak English, and let me know in ten years what the long-term outcome was. Good luck.

I've found it quite easy to do business with Chinese companies without speaking Chinese. There's always a bit of funky grammar and spelling in email correspondence, but never a problem. If you're doing big business then you hire interpreters.

What language would you suggest an English speaker learn if he wanted to do business in France, Spain, Russian, China and the Middle East? All 5 of them? Learning any second language for an English speaker has limited use whereas learning English for a non-English speaker is widely useful and an obvious choice.

English can't be tarnished as it is such a mess already making it very forgiving when non-English speakers attempt it.

[Thaddeus]

English can't be tarnished as it is such a mess already making it very forgiving when non-English speakers attempt it.

Yes, and isn't it a thing of beauty and wonderment because of that.

[tombkk]

Why aren't half a billion Westerners learning Chinese, I wonder.

The six world languages are: English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese (Mandarin), and Arabic. Depending on which part of the world you are doing business in, you will need to choose the language you want to learn.

I find the idea of trying to do business in China without speaking Chinese quite futile, in the long-term sustainability sense of course. Feel free to insist on your Chinese business partners to speak English, and let me know in ten years what the long-term outcome was. Good luck.

I've found it quite easy to do business with Chinese companies without speaking Chinese. There's always a bit of funky grammar and spelling in email correspondence, but never a problem. If you're doing big business then you hire interpreters.

What language would you suggest an English speaker learn if he wanted to do business in France, Spain, Russian, China and the Middle East? All 5 of them? Learning any second language for an English speaker has limited use whereas learning English for a non-English speaker is widely useful and an obvious choice.

English can't be tarnished as it is such a mess already making it very forgiving when non-English speakers attempt it.

Yes, English is the first language for doing business. You will note that doors open when you speak Spanish in Latin America, or Chinese in China though. Or Thai in Thailand. You can believe it or not, but the only way for you to find out is to try. If you've never experienced it, you won't know.

I know expats who have lived in Thailand for 30 years and don't speak the language and keep saying that it's not necessary. They are happy too.

[tropo]

Why aren't half a billion Westerners learning Chinese, I wonder.

The six world languages are: English, French, Spanish, Russian, Chinese (Mandarin), and Arabic. Depending on which part of the world you are doing business in, you will need to choose the language you want to learn.

I find the idea of trying to do business in China without speaking Chinese quite futile, in the long-term sustainability sense of course. Feel free to insist on your Chinese business partners to speak English, and let me know in ten years what the long-term outcome was. Good luck.

I've found it quite easy to do business with Chinese companies without speaking Chinese. There's always a bit of funky grammar and spelling in email correspondence, but never a problem. If you're doing big business then you hire interpreters.

What language would you suggest an English speaker learn if he wanted to do business in France, Spain, Russian, China and the Middle East? All 5 of them? Learning any second language for an English speaker has limited use whereas learning English for a non-English speaker is widely useful and an obvious choice.

English can't be tarnished as it is such a mess already making it very forgiving when non-English speakers attempt it.

Yes, English is the first language for doing business. You will note that doors open when you speak Spanish in Latin America, or Chinese in China though. Or Thai in Thailand. You can believe it or not, but the only way for you to find out is to try. If you've never experienced it, you won't know.

I know expats who have lived in Thailand for 30 years and don't speak the language and keep saying that it's not necessary. They are happy too.

Sure, I uderstand that if you speak the local language anywhere you'll be at an advantage compared to someone who doesn't but learning a language to business level is a monumental task. Learning Spanish would be a breeze compared to learning Chinese. I"ve already experienced learning and then forgetting a language due to non-use. A waste of 5 years of study.

[koheesti]

What about the Chinese using English names? Anyone who has done business in China probably has business cards of Chinese business people with English names. I was told it was for the benefit of foreigners because apparently we couldn't pronounce their names. In addition to names like Sophia, Nikki, Christy, Scarlett I met a couple Rambos.

[MaxwellCM]

Sadly, this is the pot calling the kettle black. My Guangzhou friend mentioned to me that she is upset b/c China is attempting/ has already started a language war on many of the other dialects of Chinese by NOT ALLOWING them to be taught in public schools. Mandarin is the language of China, and all Chinese need to get up to speed. I find it amusing that English is causing a stir to a point where they have to defend their "mother tongue". In closing, with globalization, and the inter connectivity of the planet continuing unabated...good luck trying to fight that front.

[Pacificperson]

Purity of the ONE official Chinese language and it is not Chinese.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Pacificperson

[Deeral]

Hasn't France been trying to do this for years??

Hopefully they will learn from the French who have failed year in year out to achieve this. THey even used English in their announcements of the policy.

When it comes to technical and scientific terms it will of course be impossible.Do they mean "English" or Foreign" terms?

THis is a problem with several languages . there is a govt institution that thinks they can determine what people say and write - they are banging their heads against a brick wall.THailand has the same problem - it's pathetic, risible.

However strong the internal economy, China will still need to trade with the outside world and English will be used - in day to day language English will ALWAYS be used if any country wishes to do business with another - attempts at "purity" - (a very disturbing term with echoes of Nazi Germany) - will always fail in the long run - why do they think "English" is creeping into the language in the first place

Ho

[tombkk]

Sure, I uderstand that if you speak the local language anywhere you'll be at an advantage compared to someone who doesn't but learning a language to business level is a monumental task. Learning Spanish would be a breeze compared to learning Chinese. I"ve already experienced learning and then forgetting a language due to non-use. A waste of 5 years of study.

You'll be surprised, but learning Chinese (Mandarin) is a lot easier than Spanish. Except for the reading and writing, but pseaking and understanding will suffice.

Yes, I also learned a language (Arabic) and forgot it due to not having used it for over 20 years. If you do continuous business with a country, visit them often or even live there, this willnot be the problem.

IMHO learning any language is never a waste of time.

[tombkk]

Hasn't France been trying to do this for years??

Hopefully they will learn from the French who have failed year in year out to achieve this. THey even used English in their announcements of the policy.

When it comes to technical and scientific terms it will of course be impossible.Do they mean "English" or Foreign" terms?

THis is a problem with several languages . there is a govt institution that thinks they can determine what people say and write - they are banging their heads against a brick wall.THailand has the same problem - it's pathetic, risible.

However strong the internal economy, China will still need to trade with the outside world and English will be used - in day to day language English will ALWAYS be used if any country wishes to do business with another - attempts at "purity" - (a very disturbing term with echoes of Nazi Germany) - will always fail in the long run - why do they think "English" is creeping into the language in the first place

Ho

Not sure waht you are saying, because:

1. The article says that English words in Chinese words should be used only if necessary, but should then be explained in Chinese. What is wrong with that, I wonder.

2. Nowhere does it say in the article that the English language will be banned. Of course it is an important language in international business, and the Chinese government encourages students to learn it.

Kindly explain to me the point of your posting, as I didn't get it. Thanks.

[tombkk]

Sadly, this is the pot calling the kettle black. My Guangzhou friend mentioned to me that she is upset b/c China is attempting/ has already started a language war on many of the other dialects of Chinese by NOT ALLOWING them to be taught in public schools. Mandarin is the language of China, and all Chinese need to get up to speed. I find it amusing that English is causing a stir to a point where they have to defend their "mother tongue". In closing, with globalization, and the inter connectivity of the planet continuing unabated...good luck trying to fight that front.

You are saying that people in provinces not speaking Mandarin as their local language are not allowed to speak their local language at all? This sounds like Chiang Kai Check forcing the Taiwanese to speak only Mandarin or otherwise be punished. Taiwan has wisened up and Taiwanese is now encouraged.

I have never heard that Mainland China is suppressing the many other languages and local cultures, and I deal a lot with Chinese people of many provinces. Of course, Mandarin as the common language is promoted but not to the extent of suppressing the local languages. In fact, I understand the Chinese government is quite proud of the cultural diversity in their country.

Do you have a link or some evidence of what you are saying?

[tombkk]

What about the Chinese using English names? Anyone who has done business in China probably has business cards of Chinese business people with English names. I was told it was for the benefit of foreigners because apparently we couldn't pronounce their names. In addition to names like Sophia, Nikki, Christy, Scarlett I met a couple Rambos.

Yes, when Chinese students start to learn English, they are asked to pick an English nickname. They will be referred to this nickname in English-speaking circles, but sometimes even among their friends. I do agree that it helps Westeners to remember their "names", but it also has to do with trying to get the student involved in the Anglo culture.

What exactly is your question?

[Deeral]

Hasn't France been trying to do this for years??

Hopefully they will learn from the French who have failed year in year out to achieve this. THey even used English in their announcements of the policy.

When it comes to technical and scientific terms it will of course be impossible.Do they mean "English" or Foreign" terms?

THis is a problem with several languages . there is a govt institution that thinks they can determine what people say and write - they are banging their heads against a brick wall.THailand has the same problem - it's pathetic, risible.

However strong the internal economy, China will still need to trade with the outside world and English will be used - in day to day language English will ALWAYS be used if any country wishes to do business with another - attempts at "purity" - (a very disturbing term with echoes of Nazi Germany) - will always fail in the long run - why do they think "English" is creeping into the language in the first place

Ho

Not sure waht you are saying, because:

1. The article says that English words in Chinese words should be used only if necessary, but should then be explained in Chinese. What is wrong with that, I wonder.

2. Nowhere does it say in the article that the English language will be banned. Of course it is an important language in international business, and the Chinese government encourages students to learn it.

Kindly explain to me the point of your posting, as I didn't get it. Thanks.

As your question has nothing to do with my post - no! Please explain

[koheesti]

What about the Chinese using English names? Anyone who has done business in China probably has business cards of Chinese business people with English names. I was told it was for the benefit of foreigners because apparently we couldn't pronounce their names. In addition to names like Sophia, Nikki, Christy, Scarlett I met a couple Rambos.

Yes, when Chinese students start to learn English, they are asked to pick an English nickname. They will be referred to this nickname in English-speaking circles, but sometimes even among their friends. I do agree that it helps Westeners to remember their "names", but it also has to do with trying to get the student involved in the Anglo culture.

What exactly is your question?

If the Chinese gov't has a problem with English and other foreign words being used in publications, how do they feel about their business men & women using Anglo names instead of their own Chinese names?