New Rip-Off At Sizzler And Maybe Pizza Company

[gguy]

Ate at Sizzler and paid with a US credit card.

My bill was converted in US dollars without my permission. I checked with VISA and the current exchange rate is 30.03 and my bill was converted at 29.03. Told the girl I wanted to pay in Thai baht but charge went through in US dollars.

The Minor group owns Sizzler, Pizza Company, and some other establishments.

Be careful when you pay with credit at Sizzler.

[highchol]

thai air on beach road also

[cardholder]

As far as I am aware you cannot 'choose' which currency to be charged in, the processor will automatically convert to your home currency.

I trust they charged a 4% transaction fee as well.

[gguy]

As far as I am aware you cannot 'choose' which currency to be charged in, the processor will automatically convert to your home currency.

I trust they charged a 4% transaction fee as well.

Incorrect. According to Visa, the customer can be billed in Thai baht or use dynamic conversion to convert to another currency if the customer wishes.

[Crossy]

You are supposed to get the choice, but I've never been offered, the slip even says that you're signing that you were offered.

I use my local card for most charges.

[highchol]

you can choose, you have to tell them first, there was a disussion here on TV previously thats how i found out about it.

[cardholder]

As far as I am aware you cannot 'choose' which currency to be charged in, the processor will automatically convert to your home currency.

I trust they charged a 4% transaction fee as well.

Incorrect. According to Visa, the customer can be billed in Thai baht or use dynamic conversion to convert to another currency if the customer wishes.

So you have a Thai Baht bank account linked to this VISA card against which they would debit the credit card bill ?

[gguy]

As far as I am aware you cannot 'choose' which currency to be charged in, the processor will automatically convert to your home currency.

I trust they charged a 4% transaction fee as well.

Incorrect. According to Visa, the customer can be billed in Thai baht or use dynamic conversion to convert to another currency if the customer wishes.

So you have a Thai Baht bank account linked to this VISA card against which they would debit the credit card bill ?

Cardholder you are confusing the transaction. In Thailand, you are normally billed in Thai Baht. However, as a way of ripping you off by the merchant, he offers to convert the transaction in US dollars at a very unfavorable exchange rate and pockets the difference as additional profit.

Edited December 29, 2010 by gguy

[cardholder]

As far as I am aware you cannot 'choose' which currency to be charged in, the processor will automatically convert to your home currency.

I trust they charged a 4% transaction fee as well.

Incorrect. According to Visa, the customer can be billed in Thai baht or use dynamic conversion to convert to another currency if the customer wishes.

So you have a Thai Baht bank account linked to this VISA card against which they would debit the credit card bill ?

Cardholder you are confusing the transaction. In Thailand, you are normally billed in Thai Baht. However, as a way of ripping you off by the merchant, he offers to convert the transaction in US dollars at a very unfavorable exchange rate and pockets the difference as additional profit.

In ALL cases you are paying in Dollars - irrespective of whether the rate of exchange is pinned at the point of sale or during an electronic transaction.

I agree that dynamic conversion makes this all academic and if a cardholder signs for $40 for a 1,000 Baht meal - then caveat emptor.

Unless there was a very big party that I was picking up the tab for I wouldn't dream of paying by foreign card. I have usually encountered a 4/5% transaction fee from a retailer on the few occasion I have used VISA.

How much was your bill and what exactly did you actually 'sign' for ?

[highchol]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/107436-dynamic-currency-conversion/page__view__findpost__p__1156653__hl__credit+cards+dynamic+conversion__fromsearch__1

follow this link for previous discussion, see jim grant first post mentions about the button the retailer should use to select payment in in thai baht or base currency.

i tried also and had to tell the staff, but you could tell that they did indeed know how to do it, some wont until pushed into it.

[gguy]

Use CC at reputable vendors and where I can see entire transaction. Never let my card out of sight.

[cardholder]

I am not against the principle of DCC but I am not sure Thailand is ready for it.

The OP is right to alert us to retailers that use it/abuse it and WE have to be diligent in checking our bills. As I said caveat emptor.

There is an odd comfort level in signing a transaction in currency without knowing what the converted amount will be in our own currency - this is because we 'trust' VISA or Mastercard to apply a fair rate to the transaction. In reality I doubt that the rate applied via DCC differs THAT much to card transaction rate applied by VISA. Neither will bear any resemblance to the quoted international rate for the day.

[steve187]

OP

What do you think the 'rip-off' cost you in hard baht?, at the 1 baht per dollar difference.

[Pib]

When a person googles about DCC there seems to be many more negative comments/recommendations coming up about using DCC since the merchant's exchange rate is usually based on a lower exchange rate (usually a "Note" rate you get when exchanging actual currency versus a significantly higher "TT" rate given in a wire transfer) than what you get with Visa/Mastercard. Usually the exchange rate given by Visa/Mastercard is pretty close to the TT rate before any foreign transaction fee of usually 1 to 3% is thrown on top (unless you bank eats that charge) regardless of the foreign transaction amount coming in as a home country currency charge or foreign currency charge. End result: more profit in the merchant's pocket because they are pocketing additional money by giving you a lower exchange rate (usually).

Edited December 29, 2010 by Pib

[gguy]

OP

What do you think the 'rip-off' cost you in hard baht?, at the 1 baht per dollar difference.

about 10 baht. however, i have to work for my money.

[Pib]

OP

What do you think the 'rip-off' cost you in hard baht?, at the 1 baht per dollar difference.

about 10 baht. however, i have to work for my money.

You got my vote....Better this 10 baht in your pocket versus Sizzler's. Plus, I'm glad you brought up the DCC subject, if for nothing else, to remind myself to watch out for this "another hand in your pocket" transaction method when using a home country credit card in another country.

[Patronus]

OP

What do you think the 'rip-off' cost you in hard baht?, at the 1 baht per dollar difference.

about 10 baht. however, i have to work for my money.

You got my vote....Better this 10 baht in your pocket versus Sizzler's. Plus, I'm glad you brought up the DCC subject, if for nothing else, to remind myself to watch out for this "another hand in your pocket" transaction method when using a home country credit card in another country.

I agree, it's not the 10 Baht, it is the principle .

[thrilled]

I just use baht to pay.No fuss no muss.

[Paul3456]

I've noticed that this problem has gotten worse in the last two years or so. The word must have gotten out to most of the merchants that they can gain an additional 3-4% if they automatically convert to the customer's home currency always at an unfavorable exchange rate to the customer. The prices are shown in Baht, they should process the charge in Baht.

[pipo1000]

I don't know about sizzler,since I don't attend known rip-offs,but I assume the prices on the menu are in a single currency e.g. Thai baht.

What gives them the right to change the prices to another currency after you consumed the order?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I am not against the principle of DCC but I am not sure Thailand is ready for it.

The OP is right to alert us to retailers that use it/abuse it and WE have to be diligent in checking our bills. As I said caveat emptor.

There is an odd comfort level in signing a transaction in currency without knowing what the converted amount will be in our own currency - this is because we 'trust' VISA or Mastercard to apply a fair rate to the transaction. In reality I doubt that the rate applied via DCC differs THAT much to card transaction rate applied by VISA. Neither will bear any resemblance to the quoted international rate for the day.

Your post is mostly cynical nonsense. You really should have some knowledge of the subject before making those kinds of statements.

Both VISA and Mastercard publish their rates. You will find that they, in general, correlate with the mid-market rate. I don't know what an 'International rate' may be.

It is your bank that is shaving an amount from the exchange rate, if anyone is doing so.

Whereas where DCC is applied, a further 3% or thereabouts is shaved off this rate.

They pretend that they offer the service so that you know exactly what you will be charged in your local currency. Only an idiot would believe this.

What they have done is to spot a niche whereas instead of letting your bank 'steal' that 3% from you, the local banks have decided to get in on the act and 'steal' it instead.

The local bank takes a cut and offers the vendor lower transaction fees.

Three immediate problems with the system.

Firstly, you must always be offered the choice. We know this is deliberately bypassed. Make then void it and do it again properly.

Secondly and most importantly, many of us have banks that do not charge any forex fees. So of course we would prefer our banks to handle the transaction.

Thirdly, because of this system, VISA and possibly Mastercard introduced new charges. Primarily they introduced a 1% charge for all cross border transactions that were carried out in the card holder's local currency. Obviously they were losing out on the 1% they were charging the banks for handling the forex transactions.

To be fair, it isn't the local banks who thought up the idea. It was sold to them and they have obviously taken to it.

DCC has already been in Thailand for many years. Spain is/was amongst the worst proponents.

Do check your bill before signing and just say no.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Visa rates

Mastercard rates

[cardholder]

I don't know about sizzler,since I don't attend known rip-offs,but I assume the prices on the menu are in a single currency e.g. Thai baht.

What gives them the right to change the prices to another currency after you consumed the order?

By paying with a foreign credit card.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I don't know about sizzler,since I don't attend known rip-offs,but I assume the prices on the menu are in a single currency e.g. Thai baht.

What gives them the right to change the prices to another currency after you consumed the order?

By paying with a foreign credit card.

More nonsense. Is this going to be a recurring theme?

[cardholder]

I don't know about sizzler,since I don't attend known rip-offs,but I assume the prices on the menu are in a single currency e.g. Thai baht.

What gives them the right to change the prices to another currency after you consumed the order?

By paying with a foreign credit card.

More nonsense. Is this going to be a recurring theme?

What an arrogant man you are.

Use of the foreign card results in you paying in the currency of your home country. YOU choose whether to take the rate offered i.e. by DCC or leave it to the card processing company.

Is that too difficult to comprehend Mr Flamer.

Edited December 29, 2010 by cardholder

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I don't know about sizzler,since I don't attend known rip-offs,but I assume the prices on the menu are in a single currency e.g. Thai baht.

What gives them the right to change the prices to another currency after you consumed the order?

By paying with a foreign credit card.

More nonsense. Is this going to be a recurring theme?

What an arrogant man you are.

Use of the foreign card results in you paying in the currency of your home country. YOU choose whether to take the rate offered i.e. by DCC or leave it to the card processing company.

Is that too difficult to comprehend Mr Flamer.

To write that your posts are nonsense is not considered flaming. They are nonsense.

The writer is clearly referring to the vendor charging him in another currency than for which was invoiced and not being given the choice to decline the offer of DCC.

If you think that your words games and trivializations are fooling anyone but yourself, then there is clearly something seriously wrong with you.

[metisdead]

This from Tourism Thailand website:

In fact, you may be better off paying cash than using a credit card. While it's technically against the law for the Thai vendor to pass onto you the fee that the credit card company charges them (approximately 2.25% to 3.5%, depending upon card type), it's quite common for them to do so, and it's usually not negotiable -- you either pay the surcharge or don't use your credit card. They often want to charge 4 or 5% instead of the 2.25% to 3.5%.

In this case, the vendors are converting the charge into a poor exchange rate to cover the surcharge.

tourismthailand

[canuckamuck]

Carry cash for most purchases in Thailand. Using your foreign card is expensive.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

This from Tourism Thailand website:

In fact, you may be better off paying cash than using a credit card. While it's technically against the law for the Thai vendor to pass onto you the fee that the credit card company charges them (approximately 2.25% to 3.5%, depending upon card type), it's quite common for them to do so, and it's usually not negotiable -- you either pay the surcharge or don't use your credit card. They often want to charge 4 or 5% instead of the 2.25% to 3.5%.

In this case, the vendors are converting the charge into a poor exchange rate to cover the surcharge.

tourismthailand

Actually this is not quite the case.

You often find that the vendors who are utilising DCC are not usually the merchants who charged a surcharge for credit cards in the first place.

The vendor who create a surcharge are quite happy to continue in that practice, as it covers their costs.

Nay, in fact it will be the vendors who absorbed the surcharge within their costs in the first place who are more likely to use it, as it reduces their costs.

They are probably sold it on the fact that the customer's bank will make this charge anyway, so the only loser will be the customer's bank and Visa/Mastercard.

But we know there are many exceptions to this premise. Not least the large number of card users whose banks don't charge for forex or charge much less than 3%.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Carry cash for most purchases in Thailand. Using your foreign card is expensive.

Come on, this is just silly.

Using my foreign card is almost always cheaper than using cash.