A Question...

[LoungMaak]

Hi,

i have just received my Thai driver licenses, one for motorcycle and one for the car.

So now can i drive my car Thai style?

grts.

[harrry]

Of course not that takes years of practice.

[kartman]

Failed at the first requirement as you have a Thai license.

[Paul888]

I do now. It is far safer to think like a Thai when behind the wheel.

If I want to turn right I do, the cars coming the other way always stop because they mostly don't have insurance, and most appreciate that I am in a hurry, but don't forget to smile and look puzzled if a farang beeps his horn at you.

[sceadugenga]

I don't have any problem with other cars here.

You have to be a a bit careful with motocys around the villages but in 6 years driving in Thailand I've only had one accident when a car ran into the back of me when I stalled my father in laws pickup at the traffic lights. "

I wonder how much of of the "Thai as a crap driver" thing is just another myth we use to "prove" farang superiority?

[Paul888]

I wonder how much of of the "Thai as a crap driver" thing is just another myth we use to "prove" farang superiority?

It is nothing to do with superiority, it is to do with safety, and it is not a myth.

Driving in Chiang Rai (more so than Pattaya or Bangkok) you have to be extra cautious because other drivers rarely follow the basic laws of the road. You can't trust that a car indicating left is going to turn left and you can't expect that a car that isn't, won't.

Maybe I see the worst of it because I drive children to two different schools and back everyday in the rush hours, but unless you, yourself are a bad driver, you can't fail to notice the dangerous driving of others.

Today, tonight and tomorrow be especially alert as alcohol will be in the mix more than usual.

What is a myth is that an educated farang wold consider himself superior to Thai people. I think most of us with any understanding of the world around us, realise that if Thai people generally were given the same start and opportunities in life that we were, that they would probably either match or exceed most of our achievements.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Paul888

[kandahar]

And what leads you to believe that they haven't already matched or exceeded "our" achievements? That comment has everything to do with "superiority", though I doubt you really intended that. Most of the Thais in my wife's circle of friends are living proof that they are equals with any other group on the planet. The fact that they are accomplishing their feats in a nation with a smaller economy really doesn't figure into it. Many of them have started, and continue to run, very successful businesses in other nations, as well as managing their affairs here.

But back to the "driving a car" thing and the question of the OP. Yes, it is safe to drive as a Thai does. It is actually much smarter to drive as a Thai does. Just blend in with the environment and you'll be a part of it. Be at odds with it and you'll pay the price, in peace of mind, at least. Of course, I know your question wasn't all that serious. I'm sure it was meant as a fun question, more than anything.

One point that Paul makes is supported by many other people I have talked to. Most folks who spend their lives driving in BKK are astounded at the driving habits they encounter in CR. But, again, they just need to go with the flow. CR folks are just as perplexed with the BKK peoples driving skills. Often, as my wife and I encounter someone doing something totally unexpected here, she has already warned me with "Watch that guy. He has BKK plates on his car. He's not from here". And sure enough, all of the other traffic ends up accommodating him or her.

Since I arrived permanently in CR, I quickly learned to be in harmony with the existing traffic. Now, I know that the guy in the turn lane is likely to go straight and the guy in the "go straight lane" is likely to suddenly turn. So, I am a lot more comfortable and I just expect the unexpected now. Much easier on my nerves. I get on fine now and get where I am going quicker now, too. I do a lot of what they do because it is "the" way.

And, of course, you do have a lot of beginners here. The wife has enough stories from car dealership friends about the people who walk in with a bag of baht, plop it on the counter, sign the paperwork and then try to drive their new truck off of the lot and back to their home in the mountains. They have never driven a car or truck before and have a heck of a time. The Thais love those stories. And I always enjoy hearing a new one. It is just a little scary when I am the guy encountering one of them on the road.

All in all, Thais don't drive bad. CR folks don't drive bad. They just drive differently. Try driving in Dubai, one hand on the wheel, the other operating the horn, full-time. Try driving in Iraq, Honduras or Afghanistan. For that matter, try driving in Chicago, New York, Houston or L.A. during rush hour. If you aren't driving dangerously, you aren't even going to get where you're going. That is the standard there. Bumper to bumper at 70 MPH. If one person wrecks, he take a good crowd with him. Here at least, things are much slower.

Yeah. It is okay to drive like the Thais. You're here now. Why drive like you're somewhere else?

I wonder how much of of the "Thai as a crap driver" thing is just another myth we use to "prove" farang superiority?

It is nothing to do with superiority, it is to do with safety, and it is not a myth.

Driving in Chiang Rai (more so than Pattaya or Bangkok) you have to be extra cautious because other drivers rarely follow the basic laws of the road. You can't trust that a car indicating left is going to turn left and you can't expect that a car that isn't, won't.

Maybe I see the worst of it because I drive children to two different schools and back everyday in the rush hours, but unless you, yourself are a bad driver, you can't fail to notice the dangerous driving of others.

Today, tonight and tomorrow be especially alert as alcohol will be in the mix more than usual.

What is a myth is that an educated farang wold consider himself superior to Thai people. I think most of us with any understanding of the world around us, realise that if Thai people generally were given the same start and opportunities in life that we were, that they would probably either match or exceed most of our achievements.

Edited December 31, 2010 by kandahar

[sceadugenga]

Try driving in Rome or Paris in rush hour.

As to the accusation of being a bad driver if I can't see that Thais are, maybe I am?

I drove taxis for ten years, light and heavy commercial vehicles for thirty or more. I had a couple of accidents, not my fault but I could have avoided most if my mind had been on the job.

I never trust a red light anywhere, I never trust a stop sign and always assume the other driver is going to do something stupid.... anywhere.

I've seen appalling drivers everywhere.

I never trust a motorcyclist, anywhere, and I HATE ALL BLOODY CYCLISTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!

(Takes a deep breath...)

[Paul888]

And what leads you to believe that they haven't already matched or exceeded "our" achievements? That comment has everything to do with "superiority", though I doubt you really intended that. Most of the Thais in my wife's circle of friends are living proof that they are equals with any other group on the planet. The fact that they are accomplishing their feats in a nation with a smaller economy really doesn't figure into it. Many of them have started, and continue to run, very successful businesses in other nations, as well as managing their affairs here.

Give it a rest Kandahar. I don't have my shovel handy.

Amusingly though, whilst deliberately misinterpreting the essence of my comment, you have left yourself open to the essence of your own comment being misinterpretated.

Did you really mean to imply that you and your wife operate at such elevated social levels that you have never encountered a poor Thai person who WOULD have benefited from a western education and western opportunities in life?

I know you didn't, but as pedantry and jumping on peoples' every words appears to be how everybody likes it here, I am just falling in with the crowd.

[kandahar]

Then welcome to the crowd.

I am well aware of the struggles of the under-privileged in this society. Underprivileged are in all societies. The distinction I make is that this society has their FAIR share of successful people, based on the size of the economy, not less and not more. If you're going to push your comment about having the advantage of a "western" education, it can well be extended to a great many people in the "western" world who, while living in that area, have no means whatsoever to pursue that dream. In the meantime, the wife received her education here and was quite successful as a stockbroker. And yes, most her school friends followed similar routes to successful careers. And yes, through their various dealings with clients, patients and various business partners and the introductions my wife has made to me, I have come to meet quite a few of the more successful people here. I am not ashamed of that. The extended family I married into is, perhaps about equally, poor as church mice or very prosperous. In my immediate family here, where they are all poor, with two exceptions, the wife and one of her brothers worked hard, without financial support from anyone, to get themselves through university and into decent jobs.

An interesting note here, about the Thais who got their education here AND have made their money here, is how they give back. Most of the people my wife knows who have successful businesses are involved in helping disadvantaged people. They tend to give more money AND time to those people than the same types of people I know in my home country. It is not uncommon for these people to get together and go spend three or four days building houses for people who live in grass and stick huts. Ask those people for a donation to help someone and they tend to laugh at you. Ask them to come help build a house or irrigation system for people who need it and they will show up with tools, helpers and materials. They don't tend to have pretenses about who they are or where their "roots" are.

My wife does not operate at any social level. She is an angel, who moves and communicates within different groups without pretenses. EVERYONE who interacts with her feels comfortable with her. Maybe you should come meet her. She won't be the least bit impressed by stories of where you had brunch or lunch recently. She will peer into your character and make a decision about your worth as a person and even then, she will keep that to herself.

Now I, on the other hand, have had a quite different life. I'm a bum and always will be. I'm a tramp in this world and I am comfortable with that. I have lived high and I have lived low. I am much more comfortable at the "low" places. No expectations, nowhere to be and all day to get there. I can't be as delicate about some things as the wife is. As much as I want to see good in everybody, sometimes I can't. Fortunately, she hasn't had all of the experiences that I have had. I wouldn't want her to.

BTW, when she reads your words tonight, she will be asking me again, for the umteenth time, "What make these people think we are not already equal? Why does everyone think we need "western" influence before we can be considered equal?". So, if you have any explaining to do, explain it to her and any others who deal with those kinds of comments from "Us".

I dunno about everyone here jumping on everyone's words in this forum, either. It happens, sure. But it isn't the rule, as near as I can tell. However, there are different opinions here. I kind of like that. Some people make me think. Some bore me. Now get that shovel you wrote about and dig yourself in a little deeper. And when you're done, stop by here for an unpretentious cup of coffee.

And what leads you to believe that they haven't already matched or exceeded "our" achievements? That comment has everything to do with "superiority", though I doubt you really intended that. Most of the Thais in my wife's circle of friends are living proof that they are equals with any other group on the planet. The fact that they are accomplishing their feats in a nation with a smaller economy really doesn't figure into it. Many of them have started, and continue to run, very successful businesses in other nations, as well as managing their affairs here.

Give it a rest Kandahar. I don't have my shovel handy.

Amusingly though, whilst deliberately misinterpreting the essence of my comment, you have left yourself open to the essence of your own comment being misinterpretated.

Did you really mean to imply that you and your wife operate at such elevated social levels that you have never encountered a poor Thai person who WOULD have benefited from a western education and western opportunities in life?

I know you didn't, but as pedantry and jumping on peoples' every words appears to be how everybody likes it here, I am just falling in with the crowd.

[svenivan]

Driving in Chiang Rai (more so than Pattaya or Bangkok) you have to be extra cautious because other drivers rarely follow the basic laws of the road. You can't trust that a car indicating left is going to turn left and you can't expect that a car that isn't, won't.

This time of the year, Christmas and New Year, there a lot of Bangkok drivers up here and they are dangerous.

I live on the road to Phu Chi Fah, road 1020, and there are thousands of BKK-cars pasing by this time of the year. When I go to/from town there can be groups of 3-5 of them racing in 120-140 km an hour, overtaking everywhere. Many, not all, of the BKK-drivers are dangerous and driving reckless.

For the moment there are 3-4 times more cars driving around in the province so of course there will be more accidents.

I prefer to stay home!

Happy New Year everyone !

[sceadugenga]

Happy New Year Sven. :jap:

[Paul888]

I think you need to learn to take things a little less literally sometimes Kandahar.

You have had a very short fuse recently.

Please re-read my initial post without LOOKING for a reason to fight.

My comments on "superiority" were not intended to be anti-Thai nor patronising to Thai people and I do not believe that anybody other than you could find them to be.

In any case, if the moderators consider them such they will be removed won't they?

If that happens, it will mean you were right and I will do the decent thing and apologise.

[sceadugenga]

I've had a good day, I've got people jumping up and down in two topics.

[kandahar]

I'm in no mood to fight. I'm in a great mood.

If you have written anything here that warrants being removed, I have missed it.

Food for thought never hurts. Thoughtless comments often do.

And don't start in about my fuse length. Jubby is constantly querying me on that and it isn't his business either. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you guys are so interested.

I'm off to a party. Happy new year. To all.

I think you need to learn to take things a little less literally sometimes Kandahar.

You have had a very short fuse recently.

Please re-read my initial post without LOOKING for a reason to fight.

My comments on "superiority" were not intended to be anti-Thai nor patronising to Thai people and I do not believe that anybody other than you could find them to be.

In any case, if the moderators consider them such they will be removed won't they?

If that happens, it will mean you were right and I will do the decent thing and apologise.

[kandahar]

Enjoy your night. I'm gonna enjoy mine.

I've had a good day, I've got people jumping up and down in two topics.

[jubby]

Hey Kd. Leave me out of this one. I'm all for going with the flow.

I wish I could also find some blissfull unawareness; Some sort of Meditation at the wheel or thinking about the next Bowl of Somtam, but I guess I'm too highly strung

Happy New Year Guys, and ...... be careful out there.

Atleast the BIB will be off the road tonight.

[Finlaco]

I agree with Kandahar 'And what leads you to believe that they haven't already matched or exceeded "our" achievements?'

but maybe u could back this up with a few concrete examples -- should be easy, right .... inventions etc...

[maxmiller]

I might be a newbie on this forum, but believe me I've been here a long time, many years.

Driving can be initially daunting, but once you get used to the 'Thai rules' and forget about the official 'Thai traffic rules' or any other country's rules, then everything falls into place. In all my years here I've had near misses, but I don't think it's any harder to drive here than in many congested European cities, where the only difference is the astronomical fines for traffic offences. Go with the flow, merge, be wary of flashing lights, stopping at red lights, watch every soi and take care of your fron't and side.....the guy behind will be taking care of his front and side.......hopefully!