Teen Involved In Fatal Bangkok Tollway Crash Stressed Out : Mum

[LivinLOS]

For all the "na Ayudhya" haters ..

If you really knew about Thai society and how common some Thais with that appendage to their family name are, you would not make some of the silly comments.

I know a number of members of one clan. I'm actually very close friends with one. None of them are "wealthy" .. nor all-powerful.

But she is.. So the shoe does fit, despite your denials..

Very connected family at the highest levels of Thai military.

[LivinLOS]

So, do you two think she is 17 as she stated in the interview by her or 16 as the police initially reported? Based on your input, I am now thinking she may be 16 again since I would assume those initial reports were based on the ID she produced after the accident.

I would also assume that the original reported age would have been from her ID card. The information is pretty much a roller coaster ride. Wonder if a photo of her ID has been posted somewhere as they do with many cases. Being a minor they shouldn't, but hasn't stopped them from posting her full name and photo. I did listen to the phone conversation and she specifically said 17 but again, is that a Thai 17 or physical 17?

I just found from http://directorythailand.speedywap.net/ that she was born June 30, 2537 so that would make her 16 years old until June 30 of this year. (ประวัติแพรวา หรือ อรชร เทพหัสดิน ณ อยุธยา อายุ 16 ปี เกิดวันที่ 30 มิถุนายน 2537 )

So yet more staged lies..

[TAWP]

A single mistake DID NOT cause this. Its more likely that it was something a whole lot more complicated than that.

You can try and sugar coat it anyway you like.

Can someone please point out any facts that disputes that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side of the rear as the first car was changing lane, therefor forcing the car in question to spin wildly out of control?

Most people know how little force sideway that is needed if you hit a car the right way to make it spin out...right?

[RedNIvar]

A single mistake DID NOT cause this. Its more likely that it was something a whole lot more complicated than that.

You can try and sugar coat it anyway you like.

In my opinion, based on what is out there now, the main causes/results of this tragic incident are:

1. Speed of the 17-year old girls car

2. The Van making an unsafe lane change

3. The lack of use of seat belts by the van passengers.

4. Possible lack of driving experience by the 17-year old.

Not in any particular order.

I say possible because I have no idea how much experience she has driving or if she has a US driver's license .. where she supposedly has spent time and where it would be legal, in some states, for her to drive a vehicle without a DL if accompanied by an adult.

I also don't find her not having a DL having anything to do with the accident unless we want to also agree with the mentality that if "Farang no come Thailand, no have accident, Farang guilty" --- Many Thai's and Farangs drive without valid Thailand or International DL and this should not make them automatically liable for an accident in my opinion. Driving illegally (red plate at night, no DL, illegal equipment ...) should not make you automatically at fault. I would venture to estimate that an 18 year old who followed all the rules and who legally obtains a drivings license in Thailand probably has less experience driving that this girl when they first venture out on the roads.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because there are some parties that are on the road without a valid driving license, does not make it right for anyone to drive without a license. That is just absurd reasoning. I do not want to speculate, but the way I see it the main cause of the accident is,

1. An underage driver was illegally driving on the road.

If she had respected and followed the law, that accident would not have happened at that particular time. She broke the law (fact) and as a result of this (directly or indirectly) 9 people died. Everything else is a moot point. She comes from a highly respected family with members holding/have held various high level positions. She needs to live up to this status by respecting the law.

She had no business being behind the wheel of a car. Experience does not matter, as it is against the law. People died because she blatantly broke the law. It's just that simple. IMHO

[neverdie]

A single mistake DID NOT cause this. Its more likely that it was something a whole lot more complicated than that.

You can try and sugar coat it anyway you like.

Can someone please point out any facts that disputes that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side of the rear as the first car was changing lane, therefor forcing the car in question to spin wildly out of control?

Most people know how little force sideway that is needed if you hit a car the right way to make it spin out...right?

Interesting that you quote that 'most people know how little force ......" I guess that negates the need for specialised investigators to sort through these types of things.

But thanks for sharing your views that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side I guess that proves that it wasnt a single mistake that caused this, you are describing at least two things occuring there.

[klikster]

For all the "na Ayudhya" haters ..

If you really knew about Thai society and how common some Thais with that appendage to their family name are, you would not make some of the silly comments.

I know a number of members of one clan. I'm actually very close friends with one. None of them are "wealthy" .. nor all-powerful.

But she is.. So the shoe does fit, despite your denials..

Very connected family at the highest levels of Thai military.

Despite my denials? Please show me where I denied anything about this particular family.

[Nisa]

Nisa,

I asked you a question in #175 & qualified the error of my question in #186 but note you have continued to side step the issue.........so have you thought up an answer yet or have you decided to change your mind on the issue?

Its the question about the alleged 'unsafe' lane change that you cooked up, have you decided where you got that information from, i mean considering its one of your key theories on the cause of the accident and all that

Edit: edited down tone.

Bottom line I barely read your previous post, it was very long (if it is the one I am thinking about). I just noted that you are harping on one thing that I made clear was MY OPINION of 5 contributing factors of the accident and its tragic results while also making clear I was not making any judgement that one was less or more important than the others.

IF you are asking of those 5 things and why I listed an unsafe lane change as one of the contributing factors(which included the 16 year olds speed and likely inexperience ad well as the van passangers not wearing seat belts) it is because I believe the girl is not lying about the events. I'm not sure she recalls them 100% accurately but believe she is being honest. In my opinion there would be little reason for her to lie and the family request the police check all highway cameras about the van continually changing lanes while at the same time her stating she takes responsibility for the accident while also saying it would not have happened or been as bad had she not been speeding. I also believe she is not lying because I don't believe she intentionally hit the van or that she just plowed right into the back because she didn't see it or wasn't paying attention. I can go on and on about why I currently believe those 5 combination of things resulted in such a horrendous outcome but the bottom line is I was simply stating my opinion based on information I have believe to be credible to this point.

Feel free to continue to take pieces of my posts out of context and challenge me on them.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Nisa

[ginjag]

The last comment is either meant as a joke or is an indication of a damaged mind. The power and influence that this family commands supercedes minor greed by an astronomical proportion - the suggestion that it would influence against the girl is inane.

Interesting because if this was another minor without this last name, we wouldn't even know her name since it is illegal to name a minor the way the press has. Seems a cover-up, if one was going to take place, would have started with us not even knowing she was from an influential family.

I,m sorry but I,m still not understanding where you coming from Nisa--minor--kids-child. why can,t you say young adult-befor you comment further. Or does the young ladies parents see her as a kid child minor--if anyone speaks NOT legally--minor would elude to something like under 11. juvenile up to 15 approx-young lady seems more fittin here. I said before this kiddy talk is silly

I have no clue what you are trying to say as she IS A MINOR, she is NOT AN ADULT ... this is both a legal definition and one you will find in a dictionary. As a minor, it is against the law to publish their name when they are accused of a crime and/or have authorities release their name under other circumstances where it would be okay to publish the name of an adult. Not sure what you are not getting here and why you want me to change my very accurate term in referring to her as a minor to something is is incorrect as she is neither an Adult or a Young Adult.

EDIT: (below)

See:

http://thesaurus.com/browse/minor

Part of Speech:noun

Definition: person under legal age of maturity

Synonyms:adolescent, baby, boy, child, girl, infant, junior,juvenile, lad, little one, schoolboy, schoolgirl,teenager, underage, youngster, youth

Antonyms adult

http://dictionary.re...om/browse/minor

–noun

9. a person under the legal age of full responsibility.

10. a person of inferior rank or importance in a specified group,class, etc.

and

http://dictionary.ca...british/minor_3

minor noun

/ˈmaɪ.nər//-nɚ/ [C] legalsomeone who is too young to have the legal responsibilities of an adult

Thankyou teacher /bookworm.....correct or not-with a lot you have said. 9 was interesting, a person under the legal age==OF FULL RESPONSIBILITY-does this or could this mean she could be part responsible. You love winding up a subject.that now is getting too long in the tooth, trying to outclever others on something thats still got to be opened up===age-----incident-----My ordinary English. you said you don,t understand, is as a youngster we were kids--then juveniles-and young adults, Schools were infants -juniors-seniors, The law book and dictionary on your knee is somewhat different to basic common sense we were taught, wanting to be clever and correct people you have to look in a book. I know the book is correct-legal/dictionary. It is an attitude of this total defense of a KID. Well madam surely its time you put your book down. and wait for some definate report to come out.

[Nisa]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because there are some parties that are on the road without a valid driving license, does not make it right for anyone to drive without a license. That is just absurd reasoning. I do not want to speculate, but the way I see it the main cause of the accident is,

1. An underage driver was illegally driving on the road.

If she had respected and followed the law, that accident would not have happened at that particular time. She broke the law (fact) and as a result of this (directly or indirectly) 9 people died. Everything else is a moot point. She comes from a highly respected family with members holding/have held various high level positions. She needs to live up to this status by respecting the law.

She had no business being behind the wheel of a car. Experience does not matter, as it is against the law. People died because she blatantly broke the law. It's just that simple. IMHO

So, if the owner of a new van, with red plates, was taking a bus load of kids home from a field trip after dark and was broadsided by a person running a red light resulting in all kids in the van dying ... Oh, and add to this scenario that the van driver has no money because he spent it all on the van but the driver of the car which ran the red light comes from a super rich and elite family ... In your opinion the sole responsibility of the accident should be the owner of the van?

Keep in mind it is against the law to drive at night if you have red plates and had the van not been on the road the accident would not have happened.

What if a farang is currently 2 days over on his visa and gets in an accident, should he be automatically held responsible? Farang no here, no have accident, farang fault.

Thankfully you did not write the laws if you believe your statements and the answer to my questions are yes.

[neverdie]

but couldn't understand what you quoting from alleged sources and what you were adding in. Bottom line I barely read it.

Ohhh, okay, fair enough, your first reply didnt really indicate any of that.

For your information, I wans quoting any alleged sources, rather trying to establish on what grounds you were using to state there was an 'unsafe' lane change. Do you actually realise that changing lanes isnt illegal, if done in accordance with the provisions of the Land Traffic Act?

Of course, you seem to be ready to jump down anyones throat that states anything about this but your ready to accept the word of a complete stranger ie: the girl involved, who of course wouldnt have any vested interest in lying and an 'unsafe' lane change is born.

Just like you don't like people jumping to conclusions about what actually went on involving the girl, why don't you wait to see the outcome of the Police investigation, before you start rubishing a dead womans driving. I am sure there would be witnesses to any of that, if it actually went on, given that there are several passengers still alive from within the bus and a series of other cars that wernt far behind it. (Perhaps even a few travelling the opposite direction) .

[asiancup2007]

The PR offensive has started and surely the van driver will be in the cross-hairs

of those pushing the wheelchair.

[JemJem]

There are hundreds of screenshots now of her Facebook that she was making at the time that picture was taken. She added 555 (hahaha) after making the posts about the accident.

Also see the pictures of the two injured people lieing, unattended, just feet away from her. She made no attempt to help any of the injured and dying at any time but chose to post on Facebook and (maybe) Twitter instead.

Her Facebook account has now been deleted but only after many people took screenshots of her posts.

You may want to get your facts from a place beyond FB.

All facts to this point indicate the Twitter post and the 555 comments were fabrications and she denies them (facts easily checked)

She was trapped in her vehicle until rescue workers freed her. So, emergency crews were already on hand, the photo was not taking moments after the wreck.

She was injured (actually did the above interview in a wheel chair) and had been hospitalized at least until Thursday.

The police also would not let her go to the hospital until she called her family (she is a minor) and got the insurance information which is what she claims to be doing on the phone in the picture.

Nisa : Just curious ; why are you going to great lengths in defending this girl, in like almost all of your posts about this incident ?

[neverdie]

The PR offensive has started and surely the van driver will be in the cross-hairs

of those pushing the wheelchair.

Well the dead can't speak.

That aside, if the physical evidence at the scene was recorded correctly, it should be able to provide a fair bit of detail. There were also other cars in the vicinity & the surviving passengers. I wonder if they were all asleep at the time?

[neverdie]

Nisa : Just curious ; why are you going to great lengths in defending this girl, in like almost all of your posts about this incident ?

She clarified this earlier, in another thread. Its because 'society' is to blame for this accident, not a poor innocent 15 17 18 16 yo child. How could it be a childs fault.

[Nisa]

A single mistake DID NOT cause this. Its more likely that it was something a whole lot more complicated than that.

You can try and sugar coat it anyway you like.

Can someone please point out any facts that disputes that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side of the rear as the first car was changing lane, therefor forcing the car in question to spin wildly out of control?

Most people know how little force sideway that is needed if you hit a car the right way to make it spin out...right?

Interesting that you quote that 'most people know how little force ......" I guess that negates the need for specialised investigators to sort through these types of things.

But thanks for sharing your views that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side I guess that proves that it wasnt a single mistake that caused this, you are describing at least two things occuring there.

Actually it is caused a "Pit Maneuver" and is fairly common knowledge in the west to anybody who has watched high speed chases. It involves a car (police) coming up behind another car (being pursued) and gently pushing the rear (left or ride side) of the first vehicle causing it to spin out. Obviously the faster the vehicle is going and the lighter in the rear end it is (such as a van) the less force needs to be applied to make the first car spin out. This same thing can happen if the lead vehicle were to turn into the vehicle in the back's lane and was struck in the right or left rear. In fact, the spin out would be more severe if the first vehicle initiated the contact as they would already have their wheels turned in the direction the vehicle would be propelled (spun out).

The reason police use this "Pit Maneuver" is because the vehicle generally stalls when it spins out allowing the pursuing officers to surround the vehicle as well as it resulting it little to no damage to the police car since it requires little contact or impact between the vehicles. Usually, if done in a safe area on surface streets, the results are good with no injuries and minimal damage to either vehicle. However, at high rates of speed or in unsafe areas it can have tragic results especially if the vehicle doesn't have a low center of gravity and flips.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Nisa

[473geo]

Pick a school, any school in Thailand. Stand outside between 1500-1600 hours any school day. If you think that the school that you picked is anywhere near average, count the number of obviously under-age riders/drivers that emerge and multiply by the number of schools in Thailand. More than a million, probably. These are every day travellers.

Perhaps society does carry some of the blame........

[Nisa]

There are hundreds of screenshots now of her Facebook that she was making at the time that picture was taken. She added 555 (hahaha) after making the posts about the accident.

Also see the pictures of the two injured people lieing, unattended, just feet away from her. She made no attempt to help any of the injured and dying at any time but chose to post on Facebook and (maybe) Twitter instead.

Her Facebook account has now been deleted but only after many people took screenshots of her posts.

You may want to get your facts from a place beyond FB.

All facts to this point indicate the Twitter post and the 555 comments were fabrications and she denies them (facts easily checked)

She was trapped in her vehicle until rescue workers freed her. So, emergency crews were already on hand, the photo was not taking moments after the wreck.

She was injured (actually did the above interview in a wheel chair) and had been hospitalized at least until Thursday.

The police also would not let her go to the hospital until she called her family (she is a minor) and got the insurance information which is what she claims to be doing on the phone in the picture.

Nisa : Just curious ; why are you going to great lengths in defending this girl, in like almost all of your posts about this incident ?

How am I going to great lengths to defend her?????? By pointing out what appear to be facts from fiction?

Given the post you are quoting and asking your question based on ... the better or real question would be why am I not jumping on the bandwagon with all the people that so easily want to believe this girl is evil and want to believe every edited photo, FB page and anything else that makes her sound like a monster instead of reading more credible sources and doing a minute of research ... though I will admit there are few places with can believe anything fully regarding this incident.

Edit: And FYI, I've never said she wasn't at fault or responsible for the accident.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

So, if the owner of a new van, with red plates, was taking a bus load of kids home from a field trip after dark and was broadsided by a person running a red light resulting in all kids in the van dying ... Oh, and add to this scenario that the van driver has no money because he spent it all on the van but the driver of the car which ran the red light comes from a super rich and elite family ... In your opinion the sole responsibility of the accident should be the owner of the van?

Keep in mind it is against the law to drive at night if you have red plates and had the van not been on the road the accident would not have happened.

What if a farang is currently 2 days over on his visa and gets in an accident, should he be automatically held responsible? Farang no here, no have accident, farang fault.

Thankfully you did not write the laws if you believe your statements and the answer to my questions are yes.

If a Farang overstays their visa, they are not breaking any traffic laws, just immigration laws. This is not the case here, she broke the traffic law and either direct or indirectly caused a traffic accident. (If her parents never fornicated 17 years ago, the accident would not have happened. Need to apply logic for relevance to the issue at hand.)

If the law is not to drive with a red plate at night, you don't drive with a red plate at night. In your example above both parties are at fault, driving with a red plate and running a red light.

In your previous posts I have noticed how you implore people to stick to the facts, and the fact in this case is the underage sedan driver had broken the law. I have not heard or seen any facts that point to the van driver breaking any laws, just a whole bunch of generalization of van drivers.

So none of your examples fit the current issue at hand.

I do not write laws, neither do I want to. I do however abide by the law. You, Nisa on the other hand sound like a person who takes the law as a guideline rather than something you need to abide by. You seem to justify not following the law, because there are others who are not doing it as well. That sounds very naive and immature to me.

As for not hearing or seeing any info about the Van's driving, beyond generalizations of van drivers then I suggest you check the two main BKK English newspapers that did a recap of the girls statements during an interview.

I've never justified her driving without a license nor do I see the law as a guideline or have I indicated because other people do something wrong it makes it okay to do. I simply am trying to tell you that the law is not what you believe it should be and that the law doesn't make somebody automatically guilty because they were driving without a license nor does it makes somebody automatically only 1/2 responsible if another driver hits them while they were operating at night with red plates.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Nisa

[cdnvic]

Get back on topic and stop the personal fights. Further off topic posts will also be removed.

[TAWP]

A single mistake DID NOT cause this. Its more likely that it was something a whole lot more complicated than that.

You can try and sugar coat it anyway you like.

Can someone please point out any facts that disputes that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side of the rear as the first car was changing lane, therefor forcing the car in question to spin wildly out of control?

Most people know how little force sideway that is needed if you hit a car the right way to make it spin out...right?

Interesting that you quote that 'most people know how little force ......" I guess that negates the need for specialised investigators to sort through these types of things.

But thanks for sharing your views that it could infact be a case of a car hitting another at the side I guess that proves that it wasnt a single mistake that caused this, you are describing at least two things occuring there.

I am not sure what you point is. Are you blaming me for your lack of common knowledge?

Again, a light tap at the right (or, very wrong) place is one mistake (or a combined mistake from 2 different cars) that can happen without any ill intent.

The point is that sofar nothing here has indicated that it could not be a case of a hit of this kind (infact, the spin-out more or less points to the fact that it is) and sadly it is one of those things any one of us could, given enough bad luck, have happen to us.

I hope the investigation is done properly and they come up with a better reconstruction than the half-ass'd animation [from a tv-channel] released sofar.

[Siam Simon]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

[OzMick]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

"Don't make a example of this girl:"

Why in helll not? If this is a huge problem, and I agree it is, then how do you stop it if you don't make an example out of somebody - and with a 9 death accident to her credit she is the perfect poster girl.

Give her a slap on the wrist and a MAXIMUM B50,000 fine, and all the other thais will say if its good enough for the "upper classes" then its good enough for us. Let them know there are serious consequences for this stupidity, and they may think twice. And if all levels of govt and police join in condemning under-age vehicle use, the BIB may be forced to do some enforcing of the law, even if its only collecting tea-money.

[Siam Simon]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

"Don't make a example of this girl:"

Why in helll not? If this is a huge problem, and I agree it is, then how do you stop it if you don't make an example out of somebody - and with a 9 death accident to her credit she is the perfect poster girl.

Give her a slap on the wrist and a MAXIMUM B50,000 fine, and all the other thais will say if its good enough for the "upper classes" then its good enough for us. Let them know there are serious consequences for this stupidity, and they may think twice. And if all levels of govt and police join in condemning under-age vehicle use, the BIB may be forced to do some enforcing of the law, even if its only collecting tea-money.

Yes, I agree with you. I think my wording wasn't clear: I meant that I think that this huge problem needs to be addressed as a whole, rather than treating it as isolated incidents with isolated blame being laid.

[Nisa]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

"Don't make a example of this girl:"

Why in helll not? If this is a huge problem, and I agree it is, then how do you stop it if you don't make an example out of somebody - and with a 9 death accident to her credit she is the perfect poster girl.

Give her a slap on the wrist and a MAXIMUM B50,000 fine, and all the other thais will say if its good enough for the "upper classes" then its good enough for us. Let them know there are serious consequences for this stupidity, and they may think twice. And if all levels of govt and police join in condemning under-age vehicle use, the BIB may be forced to do some enforcing of the law, even if its only collecting tea-money.

You seem to think that being involved in a wreck with 9-people dying is not a huge ("serious") consequence of an underage driving and/or that an underage driver would care more about doing some jail time (or other harsh punishment) than they would about feeling responsible for 9-deaths. Although most teens don't consider consequences, as adults do, and believe all these things only happen to other people it is pretty sad and illogical that you believe they don't care about loss of others life.

I'm not saying other consequences are not in order but as for making an example for reasons not to drive underage .. that has already been done.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Nisa

[DLock]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

I disagree.

Put her in jail for 30 years.

Her family can still come to see her, celebrate her birthday and New Year together.

The family of the 9 people she killed will never have that opportunity.

[neverdie]

and sadly it is one of those things any one of us could, given enough bad luck, have happen to us.

And the more dangerous and reckless your daily driving habits are the more likely it will happen. This has nothing to do with 'bad luck' except than if you look at it from the perspective of one of the victims that were so needlessly slain in this collision.

I can assure you that I don't lack either the 'common knowledge' or appropriate qualification and experience to understand what may of or may not have occurred here, its a shame that not everyone else possesses the same.

I find it interesting that you can tap away at the keyboard and suggest that a man running a legitamate business is 'shady' yet everything here seems like the run of the mill type mishap.

[Nisa]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

Very rational post ... Thumbs Up

[ChiangMaiFun]

Why this case is getting so much attention:

1. The van is part of a major van route between Moh Chit and Rangsit and taken by thousands of people per week.

2. The photo of the 16 year old on her cell phone and her not helping the injured who were calling for help and water.

3. The victims were part of a growing educated class that is establishing itself in Thailand

4. Persons associated with Thammasat University, NSDTA, and AIT were injured or killed as a result of the accident.

5. It brings to attention the excess speeding that occurs on the tollway.

6. Safety of the vans (no use of seat belts).

7. Privilidged class possibly not getting penalized for their illegal actions.

8. Censorship of the media when an elite is involved.

9. Use of social networking sites where pictures and information can spread. Also a place where people can unite behind a cause.

10. Many people are jealous of what they perceived to be a girl who has led a rich and privileged upbringing and they are unhappy with their own life.

yes and very understandable that they would be

[ChiangMaiFun]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

well most of Thailand does care because it knows she will get away with it - just because of who she is and who Daddy is - I notice he didn't attend the funerals so no loss of face there! send the wife

[gregb]

I don't care what part of society this girl is from. Underage driving and riding is a huge problem that is spread right across society in Thailand. Don't make a example of this girl: Start a national drive against such juvenile criminals (even in the villages). In this instance, the girl's family are doing the decent thing rather than compounding their <deleted>£k-up, and at great personal loss of face.

"Don't make a example of this girl:"

Why in helll not? If this is a huge problem, and I agree it is, then how do you stop it if you don't make an example out of somebody - and with a 9 death accident to her credit she is the perfect poster girl.

Give her a slap on the wrist and a MAXIMUM B50,000 fine, and all the other thais will say if its good enough for the "upper classes" then its good enough for us. Let them know there are serious consequences for this stupidity, and they may think twice. And if all levels of govt and police join in condemning under-age vehicle use, the BIB may be forced to do some enforcing of the law, even if its only collecting tea-money.

You seem to think that being involved in a wreck with 9-people dying is not a huge ("serious") consequence of an underage driving and/or that an underage driver would care more about doing some jail time (or other harsh punishment) than they would about feeling responsible for 9-deaths. Although most teens don't consider consequences, as adults do, and believe all these things only happen to other people it is pretty sad and illogical that you believe they don't care about loss of others life.

I'm not saying other consequences are not in order but as for making an example for reasons not to drive underage .. that has already been done.

Disagree. That hasn't already been done. There are 2 things that need to happen in response to a tragedy like this. The first is feeling sorry for your actions and coming to terms with the fact that you have killed people. I hope that is what is happening here. So far it would appear that the girl is feeling remorseful. That, however, is not punishment. That is simply life.

Appropriate punishment, aka consequences of her negligence and poor decision making, is a stint behind bars. That needs to happen in addition to just "feeling bad." Nobody feels bad before they commit an offence. They can absolutely fear the punishment though before engaging in an activity that kills people. If that prevents even a single tragedy like this in the future it is well worth it. This should not be something that is portrayed as a minor issue.

Mercy for the perpetrator is all well and good, and nobody is saying don't let her out on parole with community service early if she is showing true remorse, but don't go overboard with it either. There needs to be balance. She killed people. I absolutely will never accept that this girl doesn't need to be deprived of liberty for a time. She deprived several people of their lives doing something she knew very well was wrong and against the law. Community service, a cash payment and a slap on the wrist are not enough in this case.

Also, the momentum of this case provides a perfect opportunity to make other improvements, like clamping down on all under age and non licensed drivers. Nothing can bring back the people who were killed or remove the suffering of their families, but if it were me I would at least like to think that their deaths served a larger purpose. Let's do something constructive out of this tragedy. The government should take the opportunity to shame the police for not doing more to curb under age driving. It really isn't that hard to stop completely if they want to.

And the idea to outfit all public transport vehicles with event data recorders is definitely a step in the right direction. Maybe also requiring black box technology on any vehicle driven by someone under a certain age, even if they are licensed? Just a thought. Motorcycles too. They are some of the worst offenders.

And how about naming the law requiring these life saving devices after the victims of this tragedy?

I truly do hope that something positive comes from this. It is just such a tragic waste.