Thailand's Crystal Meth Use Likely To Spread In 2011: Narcotics Control Board

[Nisa]

No disputing that meth (or the look-alikes) is nasty stuff.

I'm just wondering how the war on drugs as waged in Thailand squares with the concept of moral freedom as derived from Buddhist teachings.

For instance, Thais can look beyond a woman's decision to become a prostitute and see that they aren't endowed with all of the facts of her life, that they are not in a position to judge. I think that's very admirable. But why doesn't the same logic apply with drug use?

Especially with drugs like marijuana. I don't think it's controversial anymore to describe pot as being safer and less addictive than even legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco, and yet the Thais continue to employ zero-tolerance here too, even as they readily acknowledge their country is set to be thoroughly devastated by a meth epidemic.

I think the government's dishonesty towards drugs probably leads to more meth users when they do things like classify weed and crystal as being the same in the law's eyes.

Bottom line, good question in terms of the zero-tolerance as it relates to pot.

[Nisa]

You want decriminalization of crystal meth? Hmmmm. I can see the idea of treating addicts as sick people rather than criminals, but dealers? Come on.

BTW, can you supply a link detailing the legality of crystal meth dealing and using in Portugal? I still find that a little hard to believe.

If it was legalized (which I am not saying is the answer) then those selling it would not be dealers ... they would be pharmacists or vendors selling a legal good and hopefully paying taxes.

Although I am not saying legalization is the answer ... there are numerous examples around the globe of decriminalization of drugs leading to less drug related problems and/or drug use..

Edited January 3, 2011 by Nisa

[sezze]

A : I agree completely to another poster here about the relationship between smoking and cancer . Most smokers do not die from cancer or other scig related diseases . The main reasons for lung and other respiratory cancers is smoking and smoking is very unhealthy , and you might get very sick and or die from it ... but it isn't sure ( from smoking that is ) .

B : I saw people using yabba as well as ice and it is very widespread in Thailand , from the smallest village in Isaan to the party islands down south and everything in the middle . I got one person out of the stuff by using the before and after pics and showing them their own pics , how much they aged in short notice . It does work and they should put it on the thai tv and magazines , They use yabba and ice on exactly the same base , the glass pipe system .

From my background (chem degree) i know that both substances are basically the same , meth or methamphetamine . The biggest difference is the tablet and poder form . I think that yabba is mixed with something else ( most times) to give Ice a reason to exist , many users use both but i think asking price for ice is higher .

Yes , meth is made with the ingredient mentioned but that is just to scare people . It is chemical based , and whatever drugs ( from aspirine to sleeping aid etc etc ) which is pure chem based , other chemicals are used to make it . Most are readily available and are indeed in batteries , toilet cleaner , swimming pool chems , etc . That it can be produced from the standard available chemical substances is because it is a simple chemical reaction and not a very complex one with very high purity needed .

I'm hoping that some day these things are out of this world but i guess it will only get worse and worse , as there is too many money to be made from it .

[meom]

^

Even if there is no money to be made from it people would still crave for it since getting high is inherent to human nature whether it be alcohol, siggies, illegal drugs or prescription drugs.

[Nisa]

Battery acid and other chemicals may be used in the production of crystal meth but not really in the end product or just as much as kerosene is in cocaine since it is used to process coke or as much as other dangerous chemicals and acids are used in the production of other medications and products.

I forget the key ingredient name but it is found in cold and/or allergy tablets which used to be easy to buy in the US at any store. Now that drug found in some over the counter medications is regulated in terms of how much can be bought and where it can be sold and how in most of the US. .

The 'cookers" use things like battery acid or ether and other chemicals to extract the active ingredient from these over the counter medications.

Of course the production of crystal meth is unregulated and this could lead to anything (as well as drugs being cut with other products to create more weight for sale) being in there but but point is that is is a misconception that it is made "from" all these deadly chemicals as opposed to these chemicals being used in the cooking process.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Nisa

[TheyCallmeScooter]

Although I am not saying legalization is the answer ... there are numerous examples around the globe of decriminalization of drugs leading to less drug related problems and/or drug use..

One of the biggest frustrations with the Prohibition v Sanity debate is that the vast majority of people simply aren't intelligent enough to understand there are infinite forms of Regulation (with infinite levels of control able to be exerted)...and only ONE (idiotic) form of Prohibition - and that is one of zero control.

Alprazolam (Xanax) is a filthy drug which should never have been approved by the FDA for anti-anxiety / sleep disorders / etc.

But having said that, the fact that is it regulated and controlled means the colossal mistake of the FDA (if indeed, it was a mistake hmm) will ensure that the eventual negative side-effects will be collated a great deal more efficiently; once they are, a vastly more productive / intelligent discussion will be able to be conducted; professionals (such as those in the pharmaceutical industry can lay claim to the term) will be able to channel their experiences in using it to treat their patients in ways that allow mass sampling and so on and so on....

Huge mistake (imo). Fallout will be limited.

And if you've ever be caught in another country having lost your anti-anxiety meds, I think you'll find yourself in for one hell of a shock if you think you can just waltz up to a doc and walk away with a prescription.

You'd have an infinitely easier time of it, if you simply wanted to score some crack or smack. INFINITELY EASIER TIME OF IT.

The madness of Prohibition has to be one of the most ridiculous fails in the history of humanity (and that's saying something...)

[cdnvic]

Posts were removed that displayed methods of ingestion in use.

[TAWP]

Hey,that screen looks like that from a TV member,or should I say TV user?.Care to elaborate

One of the first hits on Google Images.

(I didn't even notice it was a Thai water-bottle until now, saw it as a thumbnail.)

[Nisa]

16) Not to post about gambling, betting, pornography, illegal drugs, fake goods/clothing etc and other activities that are officially illegal in Thailand.

dam_n, I forgot this was a rule ... Seems we were all set-up to break this one given the topic.

But even when posting positively it can have problems. In the US I knew drug addicts that used police reports in the newspaper and online to find out where to buy them on the street.

As for images of drug use .. lots of recovering addicts find things like this a trigger to crave using again even when the images are of negative use.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Nisa

[TAWP]

The rules explicitly say that this topic is against forum policy and I hope it is closed.

We wanna avoid the chance that someone learns something.

Edited January 3, 2011 by TAWP

[guava]

You want decriminalization of crystal meth? Hmmmm. I can see the idea of treating addicts as sick people rather than criminals, but dealers? Come on.

BTW, can you supply a link detailing the legality of crystal meth dealing and using in Portugal? I still find that a little hard to believe.

If it was legalized (which I am not saying is the answer) then those selling it would not be dealers ... they would be pharmacists or vendors selling a legal good and hopefully paying taxes.

Although I am not saying legalization is the answer ... there are numerous examples around the globe of decriminalization of drugs leading to less drug related problems and/or drug use..

Article on Portugal here. One of many I'm sure. Mexico has also decriminalised possession of reasonable quanties of all drugs (hard and soft) for personal use.

Much to the disgust of the conservative religious right and the ignorant masses who are still in favour of prohibition in the face of an astronomical amount of evidence that it is THE text-book definition of failed policy, the various attempts at legalization, decriminalization, regulation etc around the world have been both reasonably successful at REDUCING drug use, but more importantly have been successful at the primary goals - saving lives, and reducing the organised crime, street crime, and petty crime, the violence, corruption, misery and suffering resulting from and fuelled by prohibition. Sadly I see the USA spending another trillion dollars and criminalizing far too many of the current and next generation before enough people wise up (or die off) and realise it's time to at least start talking about Plan B.

I've posted links on Thaivisa before (on a thread that strangely seems to have gone AWOL) to Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP). These guys have put their reputations and careers on the line to stand up for what they believe in, in some cases to try and make amends for the hundreds or even thousands of lives they believe they have ruined throughout their careers.

The majority of these guys are likely anything but pro-recreational drug use - but they are even more vehemently anti-prohibition, having seen firsthand the enormous damage it has been responsible for. One of their fundamental arguments is more dangerous the drug the greater the need for legalisation and REGULATION, the greater the need to take control for the price, quality, and distribution of these drugs out of the hands of criminals, the greater the need to set up safety nets that are legally accessible to anyone brave enough to admit they need help with their addiction. Stop treating drugs as a criminal issue, start treating it as a health issue. Spend some of the billions saved and/or the money gained through taxes on recreational drug sales, on harm minimisation, treatment, rehabilitation, and education.

The video LEAP used to have on their front page is

It’s a shame they don’t seem to link to this one anymore – it’s powerful stuff and it largely sums up what they’re all about. Their YouTube channel is here

They are realistic enough to realise that small steps are required though, and they may need to ally themselves with the enemies of their enemies to ever make any progress, hence their vocal support for the pro-pot lobby and marijuana legalization as a starting point, rather than focussing on the even greater need for legalization and regulation of the hardest drugs.

Ultimately, the arguments for repealing prohibition of all drugs (and similarly all vices including gambling and prostitution) are many and extraordinarily compelling - the arguments against are, with very few exceptions, religiously motivated / faith-based "initiatives", self-righteous moralising, fear mongering and baseless propaganda, almost never backed up with any solid science or reliable statistics.

[cdnvic]

The broad discussion on the merits of criminalization or decriminalization of drugs is not at issue here. We are talking about Thailand's crystal meth issues.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

But even when posting positively it can have problems. In the US I knew drug addicts that used police reports in the newspaper and online to find out where to buy them on the street.

Oh come on Nisa lol - I'm a big fan of yours, but seriously? Everywhere I turn, appears to be a den of iniquity and vice, in every major city I visit around the world. I seriously am having an impossible time swallowing the above.

Maybe if they were the laziest (and the dumbest?) junkies in the world...555

The very old joke about the kid being smarter than all the police, because he knew where all the dealers and the hookers were and the police just couldn't seem to find them...always springs to mind.

As for images of drug use .. lots of recovering addicts find things like this a trigger to crave using again even when the images are of negative use.

I can speak as a pretty seriously addicted cigarette smoker, and from knowing a decent array of addicts in my day, and again, whilst I can't rule out the potential that even negative imagery might trigger a relapse in a rare recovering addict...I'm pretty sure the studies are conclusive that discussion on negative side-effects, remembering all the downside, negative imagery, etc...all a powerful tool to facilitate recovery.

If otherwise, AA and every support group needs to work on their ENTIRE model. And we can get rid of all those horrible pics on my cigarette packs, the ones that creep me out and make me feel dirty instead of the 'cool' I thought I was when I started the filthy habit when still effectively a child.

I hope it is closed.

We wanna avoid the chance that someone learns something.

The first rule of Prohibition is that no one is to point out how logically unsound it is. That might result in some crazy stuff, like progress.

I think Thailand's got the balance about right (all things considered - they're hardly going to fly the global banner for progressive / intelligent approach to the scourge of drug abuse / addiction...although that would have a sort of poetic justice to it...). But to the best of my knowledge, no killing of innocents without trial, users get assistance/support, violent/criminal dealers up against some harsher stuff.

It's not the solution. It's not even a Band-aid. But it sure beats the hell out of quota killings and whatnot. shiver

[meom]

But even when posting positively it can have problems. In the US I knew drug addicts that used police reports in the newspaper and online to find out where to buy them on the street.

Real aficionados went straight to the DEA microgram to find out what's new, what's scheduled etc.

http://www.justice.gov/dea/programs/forensicsci/microgram/bulletins_index.html