ianf Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 A local lightweight bike shop to me in Chiang Mai sold me a Cinelli RAM seatpost to fit to my Condor. Whilst riding with the group in November it snapped when I was 25 miles away from home. I managed to get home and was lucky that when it broke that I did not have a nasty accident. When I bought this seatpost from the shop it was cheaper than those advertised on the net, but still very expensive. The recommended retail is 156 UK pounds (7500 baht) and I paid, if I remember correctly 5 or 6 thousand baht. I asked if it was a copy and was told absolutely not. After it broke I took it back to the same shop where the owner conveniently forgot that he had sold this to me. I sent it to to Cinelli in Italy who sent me the email below. The same shop has tried to sell me other items at below normal retail including a campag groupset. Obviously the shop can deny that they knew this was a fake but cheap bike parts don't grow on trees or appear from nowhere. I have always taken a moral stand against fake products, be they DVDs, watches, t shirts or whatever! Knowingly buying fake products in my view is joining in the theft but as this case proves it can also be extremely stupid and dangerous. There are lessons here: 1. Only buy products from sources that you know that do not source their products under the counter or out of the back door! 2. Never buy copy anything from anyone. 3. Be wary of bike shops that offer you cheap deals. If bike shop owners really cared about our sport and their fellow cyclists they would not sell us products like this. Reputable bike shops know the source of their products and don't buy through the back door. This particular bike shop owner is central to the local cycling scene and if he truly cared about our safety he wouldn't trade in fake products. And don't tell me he didn't know it was fake ................... Dear Ian, With reference to the 27.2 seatpost you recently returned to us, I regret to inform you that QA inspected the product and this seatpost is not a Cinelli original item, but a counterfeit RAM 27.2 seatpost. I enclose a copy of a warning message issued in 2007 in which we indicated how to identify fake from original Cinelli products. We take this opportunity to strongly recommend to purchase only original products sold through our distribution channel. Non-original products are not tested and can be potentially dangerous. I would also like to inform you that the seatpost you sent us will not be returned and will be destroyed by QA. We can offer you the possibility of purchasing a new Cinelli RAM 27.2 seatpost at a very interesting price through our distributor. Please feel free to contact us anytime for any additional information you may require. Kind regards Patrizia Cinelli is on Facebook, join us at: CINELLI | Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBbUn Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Wow, that's nasty stuff. Sorry to hear about your misfortune Ianf. Would you PM me the name of the shop? I live in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomchaiCNX Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 One shop, V sold me a fake Specialized saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 One shop, V sold me a fake Specialized saddle. Well, they are probably all at it. I won't even buy a fake DVD. To buy something unknowingly after being told that it was not a fake is very upsetting. ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... ...exactly my point. Same with aircraft fake spare parts etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtreelove Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... If you're bombing down the mountain at 100 kph, then a bad part may be the least of your worries; a rock, a dog or an 'over the center line' driver will be the most likely to give you a bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... If you're bombing down the mountain at 100 kph, then a bad part may be the least of your worries; a rock, a dog or an 'over the center line' driver will be the most likely to give you a bad day. it's usually a number of interrelated factors.... going fast combined with trying to avoid something combined with hitting something and a part fails. Tires are a critical weak link. New tubes and tires are good insurance. Handlebars snapping is the stuff of nightmares. I try to replace mine every few years. Wheel failure is a show stopper. New strong parts are peace of mind. Why take the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 One shop, V sold me a fake Specialized saddle. Just curious, how do you know a saddle was fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... CSN, I'm generally pretty humble about my abilities, but I am a good descender. TdF riders rarely get over 100kph. I've hit 90+ in several places in the US. But in Thailand, only on the Samoeng loop counter-clockwise and the descent off Doi Inthanon into Chom Thong have I been able to get slightly over 80kph. Where have you been able to reach that speed here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampal Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 On steep long(paved) straight downhills I have hit the mid 80's and have wanted to but never been able to go faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNXBKKMAN Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 which shop sold the seat post? can it be named? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianf Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 which shop sold the seat post? can it be named? Sorry, cannot be named here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... CSN, I'm generally pretty humble about my abilities, but I am a good descender. TdF riders rarely get over 100kph. I've hit 90+ in several places in the US. But in Thailand, only on the Samoeng loop counter-clockwise and the descent off Doi Inthanon into Chom Thong have I been able to get slightly over 80kph. Where have you been able to reach that speed here? Never here. I ride a mountain bike in CM and I doubt I have broken 75 kph if that. The surface and conditions in Thailand are fairly poor. In Colorado descending it's easy. One of my favorite climbs is up Mount Evans which peaks at 14,260 and is the highest elevation paved road in the US. Coming back down all you have to do is let go of the brakes on a few stretches. Over about 55 mph the bike wheels start making this creepy harmonic hum. A slight cross wind will really get your attention. There are some drop offs with no guardrails with some 3000 foot near vertical slopes. Go off there and I don't even want to think about it. Edited January 10, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... CSN, I'm generally pretty humble about my abilities, but I am a good descender. TdF riders rarely get over 100kph. I've hit 90+ in several places in the US. But in Thailand, only on the Samoeng loop counter-clockwise and the descent off Doi Inthanon into Chom Thong have I been able to get slightly over 80kph. Where have you been able to reach that speed here? Never here. I ride a mountain bike in CM and I doubt I have broken 75 kph if that. The surface and conditions in Thailand are fairly poor. In Colorado descending it's easy. One of my favorite climbs is up Mount Evans which peaks at ~14,100 and is the highest elevation paved road in the US. Coming back down all you have to do is let go of the brakes on a few stretches. Over about 55 mph the bike wheels start making this creepy harmonic hum. A slight cross wind will really get your attention. There are some drop offs with no guardrails with some 3000 foot near vertical slopes. Go off there and I don't even want to think about it. Lots of faster descents in Colorado. Fastest I ever saw was 62 mph coming down Trail Ridge Road in Rocky Mountain National Park outside of Estes Colorado but I know people who flirted with 70 mph in other places. A lot of TDF riders train in Colorado for the altitude and they say it dwarfs anything in Europe. Edited January 10, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim armstrong Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Thanks Ian for the info. But I guess only the attitude of the shop owners might alert you to fakes. Its curious though, as I would have thought that the quality cycle market was not that big, but I guess there are fakes in everything. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtreelove Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 yeah when your bombing down the mountain at 100 kph then a bad part can put a rider in the hospital or grave... CSN, I'm generally pretty humble about my abilities, but I am a good descender. TdF riders rarely get over 100kph. I've hit 90+ in several places in the US. But in Thailand, only on the Samoeng loop counter-clockwise and the descent off Doi Inthanon into Chom Thong have I been able to get slightly over 80kph. Where have you been able to reach that speed here? Never here. I ride a mountain bike in CM and I doubt I have broken 75 kph if that. The surface and conditions in Thailand are fairly poor. In Colorado descending it's easy. One of my favorite climbs is up Mount Evans which peaks at ~14,100 and is the highest elevation paved road in the US. Coming back down all you have to do is let go of the brakes on a few stretches. Over about 55 mph the bike wheels start making this creepy harmonic hum. A slight cross wind will really get your attention. There are some drop offs with no guardrails with some 3000 foot near vertical slopes. Go off there and I don't even want to think about it. Lots of faster descents in Colorado. Fastest I ever saw was 62 mph coming down Trail Ridge Road in Rocky Mountain National Park outside of Estes Colorado but I know people who flirted with 70 mph in other places. A lot of TDF riders train in Colorado for the altitude and they say it dwarfs anything in Europe. Take it easy guys. I used to be invincible too. But then one wrong move put me off my bike and down hard; a year of multiple joint surgeries, metal knee replacements, pain killers, and recovery, and couple of years later I just getting my legs and lungs back. And riding a lot more conservatively. Hospital food sucks, and unless you get a pretty nurse or two, the scenery ain't nearly as nice as the trees and fields. Enjoy your riding and think about the need for speed vs staying healthy and mobile. RoboDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraSnakeNecktie Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) yeah I have not been pursuing speed like I did when I was younger. Even then afterward I would wonder how smart was that? Growing up I would race anything. Skateboards, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, roller blades, ski and snowboards and while I never was that fast I rarely ever wrecked and if I did have minor ones then no injuries to speak of ever. Some people are lucky I guess. Knock on wood. I know a few people who have crashed bad over the years. These days I I mostly like the climbs. Unfortunately after a climb there is a descent which I could take or leave but still enjoy good cornering like on a motorcycle. Bummer about your parts Dr. T. I reckon you set off metal detectors and have creaks in the morning. It's a good sobering lesson to consider before my next decent. Thanks for sharing that. Edited January 11, 2011 by CobraSnakeNecktie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It's not about the speed, but control. I broke my femur at 8 mph. Or, one of my favorite sayings, "Anyone can climb, but descending takes skill". Posters were talking about 100kph descents and since this is the "Cycling in Thailand" forum, I just assumed they were talking about doing it in Thailand. I'm still interested in hearing from Pampal if his "mid-80's" is relevant. And to get back on topic: Somchai, details please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomchaiCNX Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Don't have much time el jefe.<BR><BR>But what makes you think your president is African American? <BR>Why do you think BP is responsible for the oil spill in the golf of Mexico?<BR><BR><BR>Common sense, maybe? <BR><BR>I did not send "the less than 1000 baht saddle" back to the lab, sorry. <BR><BR>Used a specialized before, needed a new one, none available untill I found this one.<BR>a little cheaper than the priovious one. After a very short period the cover had problems. Removed the cover and replaced it.<BR>The material and the gell used (or no gell used) was not the same as the previous one.<BR><BR>My first saddle was the same as the one my friend did bring in from the UK. (price was similar)<BR>First saddle served me for about 25- 30 K. km in total (price 1.200- 1. 300 baht if I remember well.)<BR>The second one had problems after less than 3-4 K km<BR> (price around 700- 800 baht)<BR>Or it was a fake or the quality from Specialized went down the hill.<BR>So I assume it was a fake.<BR><BR>Actually I never expected to find a fake saddle nor other fake parts in a bicycle shop.<BR>Similar, or copy like things under another name but based on another brand, Yes but not in the packing from another brand.<BR>Did think the market was not big enough to make money on those copy things.<BR><BR>However, with Shimano you can compare the quality from their parts made in different countries.<BR>You can see the difference, IG 71 (IG 51) chain made in Japan, Taiwan or Malaysia.<BR><BR>Good to know that Thailand has an official Park Tool importer now. It has been a grey market for at least 15 years.<BR>In the past many parts did find there way in to Thailand unofficial.<BR><BR>I have problems buying a good cycling backpack as you know you can find copies all over the place.<BR><BR>Like some other people I don't like to buy fake goods. <BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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