Punish The Parents To Set An Example On Law And Order In Thailand

[steffi]

Does anybody agree with the wording here?

"It is believed the girl's sedan brushed the van, which skidded and overturned, resulting in nine deaths and injuries."

[steffi]

I believe the Elites will always prefer their children to drive their own cars regardless of legality over riding public transport which they simply don't trust. That's is most likely the reason she has her own car and is encouraged to use it.

[hhiser]

Even if you passed your driving test at the youngest legal age 17?, 18? How does this prove you've experience of driving on an expressway?

All you have to do is drive around 2 cones and reverse into a parking space. Failing that just slip a little 1000 baht note to someone and off you go...

A very pertinent observation, I would add that most of the driving techniques learned by the average Thai driver is purely what they observe around them. Thus the sins of the older Thais are perpetuated by the younger.

[KKK]

Indicators, mirrors and the horn are put in the car for safety purpose.

indicators...are there to show the beat of the music you're listening to.

mirrors...are there to assist in applying makeup or burst a zit.

horns...are there to wake the maid up and get her to open the gate when you get back home.

[KKK]

Since I bought a car, I've been aguing with my wife about carrying my four year old daughter on her thing while seated on the front passenger seat of the car. We both wear seatbelts, and I've preached to her endlessly on the dangers involved, but she either gets angry ( mumbling that I don't love my daughter ), or she ignores me. We almost had an accident oneday and my daughter flew to the windscreen, but instead of blaming herself, she got angry that I slammed on the brakes too hard.

As you let your wife do as she pleases with regard to your daughter you too are an irresponsible parent. If she won't put your daughter in a child seat in the back of the car make her get out and walk.

[KKK]

A news paper is as good as it's reporters, bit like a credible police force, as good as it's officers.

and a nation is only as good as its government, and a child as good as its parents. Thailand seems to be lacking in all 4.....

[Orac]

Even if you passed your driving test at the youngest legal age 17?, 18? How does this prove you've experience of driving on an expressway?

All you have to do is drive around 2 cones and reverse into a parking space. Failing that just slip a little 1000 baht note to someone and off you go...

A very pertinent observation, I would add that most of the driving techniques learned by the average Thai driver is purely what they observe around them. Thus the sins of the older Thais are perpetuated by the younger.

But in this specific case it was mentioned (not sure of the definitive source though) that she holds a US driving licence which would suggest that, although still driving illegally here as she is underage for Thailand, she has possibly had more instruction in driving techniques than the average Thai.

[harrry]

Even if you passed your driving test at the youngest legal age 17?, 18? How does this prove you've experience of driving on an expressway?

All you have to do is drive around 2 cones and reverse into a parking space. Failing that just slip a little 1000 baht note to someone and off you go...

A very pertinent observation, I would add that most of the driving techniques learned by the average Thai driver is purely what they observe around them. Thus the sins of the older Thais are perpetuated by the younger.

But in this specific case it was mentioned (not sure of the definitive source though) that she holds a US driving licence which would suggest that, although still driving illegally here as she is underage for Thailand, she has possibly had more instruction in driving techniques than the average Thai.

If she does have a USA licence and has been here for less than 6 months she may not be driving ilegally as the regulation recognises foreign licences for a period and does not I believe mention age for this.

[steffi]

You think she would have said she had a USA licence if she had one? You think?

Even if you passed your driving test at the youngest legal age 17?, 18? How does this prove you've experience of driving on an expressway?

All you have to do is drive around 2 cones and reverse into a parking space. Failing that just slip a little 1000 baht note to someone and off you go...

A very pertinent observation, I would add that most of the driving techniques learned by the average Thai driver is purely what they observe around them. Thus the sins of the older Thais are perpetuated by the younger.

But in this specific case it was mentioned (not sure of the definitive source though) that she holds a US driving licence which would suggest that, although still driving illegally here as she is underage for Thailand, she has possibly had more instruction in driving techniques than the average Thai.

If she does have a USA licence and has been here for less than 6 months she may not be driving ilegally as the regulation recognises foreign licences for a period and does not I believe mention age for this.

[canuckamuck]

Is it even possible for a Thai teenager to go to America and get a drivers license? Why would she need one? I think this rumor is bogus

[Orac]

Is it even possible for a Thai teenager to go to America and get a drivers license? Why would she need one? I think this rumor is bogus

Can't see why not - as I understand it you need to be of the legal age for the state and need proof that you are not in the country illegally. Some states, South Dakota for example, state that you can have a licence at 14.

[KKK]

I believe you must be at least 18 years old to get a car driving license here. That sounds reasonable to me. In most USA states it's 16. In New Zealand it is 15 although they are considering changing it to 16. 15 and 16 is most definatley too young in my opinion to be driving a car.

But what about motorbikes. I asked the other day in a Honda dealer and the owner said 18.

I remember many years ago going with my then 15-year-old son to get him a motorbike license that was valid for up to 90cc, within city limits and not single or double digit numbered roads. The license only mentioned in writing however the 90cc restriction. Above that they said he would have to wait till he was 18.

Even at that time it was difficult to find him a bike less than 90cc but eventually I did.

Nowadays there seems nothing under 110cc meaning that kids don't get the chance to learn some road sense, legally, on a small motorbike on small roads. Of course many do illegally but that shouldn't count. Suddenly at 18 they can get a powerful motorbike or car and drive on any road in the country.

My son started, legally, riding a motorcycle at 15 and is a far better car driver now because of it. With both car and motorcycle ages being the same the danger is for those that can afford it to jump straight into a car and never experience motorbike riding.

Edited January 5, 2011 by KKK

[Orac]

I believe you must be at least 18 years old to get a car driving license here. That sounds reasonable to me. In most USA states it's 16. In New Zealand it is 15 although they are considering changing it to 16. 15 and 16 is most definatley too young in my opinion to be driving a car.

But what about motorbikes. I asked the other day in a Honda dealer and the owner said 18.

I remember many years ago going with my then 15-year-old son to get him a motorbike license that was valid for up to 90cc, within city limits and not single or double digit numbered roads. The license only mentioned in writing however the 90cc restriction. Above that they said he would have to wait till he was 18.

Even at that time it was difficult to find him a bike less than 90cc but eventually I did.

Nowadays there seems nothing under 110cc meaning that kids don't get the chance to learn some road sense on a small motorbike on small roads.

I started, legally, riding a motorcycle at 15 and consider myself a far better car driver now because of it. With both car and motorcycle ages being the same the danger is for those that can afford it to jump straight into a car and never experience motorbike riding.

I found a 3 year old thread on here yesterday that said 15 for up to 110cc until 18 but couldn't see anything mnore official - it was quoting from 'The Thai Highway Code' whatever that is???

[ginjag]

Since I bought a car, I've been aguing with my wife about carrying my four year old daughter on her thing while seated on the front passenger seat of the car. We both wear seatbelts, and I've preached to her endlessly on the dangers involved, but she either gets angry ( mumbling that I don't love my daughter ), or she ignores me. We almost had an accident oneday and my daughter flew to the windscreen, but instead of blaming herself, she got angry that I slammed on the brakes too hard.

As you let your wife do as she pleases with regard to your daughter you too are an irresponsible parent. If she won't put your daughter in a child seat in the back of the car make her get out and walk.

Maybe he can't do that as the house could be in her name, AND the car. emotional blackmail ??? if it is RENT a HOUSE --/ car--and then tell her to walk.

[KKK]

Even if you passed your driving test at the youngest legal age 17?, 18? How does this prove you've experience of driving on an expressway?

All you have to do is drive around 2 cones and reverse into a parking space. Failing that just slip a little 1000 baht note to someone and off you go...

And there is no system of learners permits, where you drive under adult supervision, or 'L' plates so that other road users know to give you a little extra room. You pass a simple test or buy a pass and your on the road ready to kill. Ridiculous

[KKK]

Since I bought a car, I've been aguing with my wife about carrying my four year old daughter on her thing while seated on the front passenger seat of the car. We both wear seatbelts, and I've preached to her endlessly on the dangers involved, but she either gets angry ( mumbling that I don't love my daughter ), or she ignores me. We almost had an accident oneday and my daughter flew to the windscreen, but instead of blaming herself, she got angry that I slammed on the brakes too hard.

As you let your wife do as she pleases with regard to your daughter you too are an irresponsible parent. If she won't put your daughter in a child seat in the back of the car make her get out and walk.

Maybe he can't do that as the house could be in her name, AND the car. emotional blackmail ??? if it is RENT a HOUSE --/ car--and then tell her to walk.

I'm sorry but they are no excuses when it comes to child safety. I'll risk my daughters life because the wife owns the house I live in.....COME ON........

The child should be removed from both parents and given to somebody who KNOWS how to act responsibly.

Edited January 5, 2011 by KKK

[Pi Sek]

And whose fault was the accident? From all reports I've seen to date (except the OP in this thread), the minibus driver was more at fault than the underage driver. Was he on yaba? Drunk?

You might consider spending more time reading and less time opining.....

While the van driver may have played some contributory role here (the police comments on that subject have been very little).... the girl's role is pretty clear: she was unlicensed, and she was speeding and admitted speeding at the time of the accident, leaving aside the question of whether she was or wasn't using her mobile phone while driving...

And you want to make the van driver more responsible... based on what?

Based on the witness reports that the van driver was also speeding and cutting into other peoples' lanes!

I find it concerning that you've only commented on her speeding and having no license. As stated in my longer post above, this is uncomfortably common in this country. The aim of my post was more to highlight that this could and does happen a lot more than once a year, and yet this public lynching of the girl and her family is pretty-much unprecendented. Are her actions any more severe than those of other incidents to date? I doubt it.

What about the van driver that fell asleep at the wheel a few weeks back? He didn't have a public transport license, that made him unlicensed too - even if he did have a private license. He was speeding too. Is it only because he died that he didn't get the same treatment?

Oh and I spend plenty of time reading, thank you, possibly moreso than you given your simplified response to very little of my post. I suppose that's why I have so many questions.

You might try reading slower and comprehending. the van driver killed in the accident was a 39-yo WOMAN. SHE has had several posts to this forum supporting her safe and courteous driving, and the only "witness" reports as to speeding and unsafe lane change come from a young girl trying to extract herself from a world of <deleted>. Oh, and a uni expert who claims no contact was made between the 2 vehicles, both of which looked pretty banged up - I bet that cost a shoe box full of grey notes.

The girl is 16 and she is a thai in Thailand, so it doesn't matter a rat's anus what the law is in the US or elsewhere. As a minor she may well escape full responsibility, but adults who have aided and abetted can not. Nobody seems to mention the 18-yo sister initially reported to be in the car (false report?), or the ownership of the car. Both these parties would/should be held more responsible than the driver.

As for the van driver drunk or on drugs - nothing has come out to indicate this is true. Are you aware of Thailand's libel laws?

Hmm, this is the first time you've had a go at me! I can see that people have died so it's a sensitive issue, so I'll be accordingly sensitive in my response and I won't retort to your first sentence further than "I have a funny feeling you might be well-advised to apply this suggestion to yourself too".

The driver I was referring to a couple of weeks back was named Phumkitti Jarutnon - I assumed it was a man because Phumkitti is a man's name (although it might be a woman's name too I suppose). There's a thread here:

I have heard nothing about her sister being in the car. Please could you point us to something, I'd be interested in reading that? Were there any other adults who aided and abetted? Who? How? I've already said that it would be almost impossible to implicate the parents in court if they claimed they were not aware or supportive of her driving - even if she has her own car, it could just be to practice in the driveway until she was old enough to get a (genuine) license.

I have not seen much about the ownership of the car - only that it was a friend's - but I've only seen the suggestion that it was her car or her family's car from right here on Thaivisa, so I must assume this is not fact.

Regarding the bearing of foreign Laws in Thailand, I agree with you. My post was merely to illustrate that it is not a worldwide-respected fact that drivers should be 18 before they enough responsibility to be on the road, as some other posters are trying to suggest, not that we shouldn't respect Thai road Law whilst driving in Thailand. However, as I've said elsewhere... how often do you see kids driving motorbikes? For me, it's at least every minute of the waking day, apart from when I'm inside, in the remote countryside or I have my eyes shut.

Regarding the van driver's inebriation level in this accident - I realise "nothing has come out to indicate this is true" except for the common use of amphetamines amongst minivan drivers. I also know the libel laws very well, and you can't be charged with libel for asking a question (unless Thaksin is prime minister, of course!).

[KKK]

I believe you must be at least 18 years old to get a car driving license here. That sounds reasonable to me. In most USA states it's 16. In New Zealand it is 15 although they are considering changing it to 16. 15 and 16 is most definatley too young in my opinion to be driving a car.

But what about motorbikes. I asked the other day in a Honda dealer and the owner said 18.

I remember many years ago going with my then 15-year-old son to get him a motorbike license that was valid for up to 90cc, within city limits and not single or double digit numbered roads. The license only mentioned in writing however the 90cc restriction. Above that they said he would have to wait till he was 18.

Even at that time it was difficult to find him a bike less than 90cc but eventually I did.

Nowadays there seems nothing under 110cc meaning that kids don't get the chance to learn some road sense on a small motorbike on small roads.

I started, legally, riding a motorcycle at 15 and consider myself a far better car driver now because of it. With both car and motorcycle ages being the same the danger is for those that can afford it to jump straight into a car and never experience motorbike riding.

I found a 3 year old thread on here yesterday that said 15 for up to 110cc until 18 but couldn't see anything mnore official - it was quoting from 'The Thai Highway Code' whatever that is???

Thanks for the info not that I'll need it .. too old to consider parenting again. Just hope somebody can use it as 110cc for a 15 year old would be OK with me. I had a very old copy (20+ years) of The Thai Highway Code. It was a small booklet all in Thai language explaining road signs etc. Similar to the one given to me in the UK as a teenager. I made my son read it over and over till he could almost tell me the page number a particular road sign was on.

[Pi Sek]

The more difficult issue, to me, is the criminal responsibility. Should someone be incarcerated for manslaughter? Here I think the answer is different. The underage driver committed the manslaughter, and in my view can be held responsible through incarceration.

Thai Criminal Code section 291:

“Whoever, doing the act by negligence and that act causing the other person to death, shall be imprisoned not out of ten years or fined not out of twenty thousand Baht”. (Please note that the translation is slightly wrong here – “not out of” means “not exceeding”).

[Pi Sek]

I believe the Elites will always prefer their children to drive their own cars regardless of legality over riding public transport which they simply don't trust. That's is most likely the reason she has her own car and is encouraged to use it.

Deary me, this is a silly post.

I think the rural poor also prefer their children to drive their own cars regardless of legality. Unfortunately they can't all afford it, that's why they encourage their children to use the family motorbike.

[commonparlance]

This editorial seems to argue that a 16 year old driving is the main problem here. True 16 is too young to drive legally in Thailand, but to me the larger issue is the lack of concern for road safety among most drivers here. In the US the legal driving age is 16. I'm not sure how the statistics for auto accidents there compare to other countries, but I can tell you that the streets and highways are far safer there than in Thailand, despite the fact that a larger percentage of the population drives, including many people between 16 and 18. Why is this? Because the training and education process necessary to get a license is more rigorous and the consequences of driving-related transgressions are far worse.

This is not to say that there are not bad American drivers. There are lots of them. And of course kids that are too young and people without licenses manage to drive. But at least you can be assured that most people on the road have had to pass an extensive set of barriers and tests to get there. And by and large, people drive like they know what they're doing.

The problem is not that a 16 year old was driving a car. The problem is that the standards regulating who can legally drive, and the consequences for those who break the rules are so lax, that a good number of drivers are either not knowledgable enough to be driving in the first place, or drive like maniacs because there is no legal incentive to do otherwise.

[ginjag]

Since I bought a car, I've been aguing with my wife about carrying my four year old daughter on her thing while seated on the front passenger seat of the car. We both wear seatbelts, and I've preached to her endlessly on the dangers involved, but she either gets angry ( mumbling that I don't love my daughter ), or she ignores me. We almost had an accident oneday and my daughter flew to the windscreen, but instead of blaming herself, she got angry that I slammed on the brakes too hard.

As you let your wife do as she pleases with regard to your daughter you too are an irresponsible parent. If she won't put your daughter in a child seat in the back of the car make her get out and walk.

Maybe he can't do that as the house could be in her name, AND the car. emotional blackmail ??? if it is RENT a HOUSE --/ car--and then tell her to walk.

I'm sorry but they are no excuses when it comes to child safety. I'll risk my daughters life because the wife owns the house I live in.....COME ON........

The child should be removed from both parents and given to somebody who KNOWS how to act responsibly.

I would risk my life agreed, your second bit about removing the child. from a Thai mother HOW ???? I am talking about thousands of cases-where these domestic blackmail cases exist, I would leave my wife if she was like this (non careing) but when you have your life savings in the house/car sometimes people think twice. I,m not suggesting this was the case mentioned. far from it.

[shunima]

I believe you must be at least 18 years old to get a car driving license here. That sounds reasonable to me. In most USA states it's 16. In New Zealand it is 15 although they are considering changing it to 16. 15 and 16 is most definatley too young in my opinion to be driving a car.

But what about motorbikes. I asked the other day in a Honda dealer and the owner said 18.

I remember many years ago going with my then 15-year-old son to get him a motorbike license that was valid for up to 90cc, within city limits and not single or double digit numbered roads. The license only mentioned in writing however the 90cc restriction. Above that they said he would have to wait till he was 18.

Even at that time it was difficult to find him a bike less than 90cc but eventually I did.

Nowadays there seems nothing under 110cc meaning that kids don't get the chance to learn some road sense on a small motorbike on small roads.

I started, legally, riding a motorcycle at 15 and consider myself a far better car driver now because of it. With both car and motorcycle ages being the same the danger is for those that can afford it to jump straight into a car and never experience motorbike riding.

I found a 3 year old thread on here yesterday that said 15 for up to 110cc until 18 but couldn't see anything mnore official - it was quoting from 'The Thai Highway Code' whatever that is???

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

It is important that all vehicles drive on the left hand side of the road. However we recognize there will be times when this is not practical or even possible hence on such occasions it is permissible to drive on the right – drivers should use their own discretion and good judgment in such cases.

The road immediately in front of your vehicle is your space and must be defended at all times and at any cost. Any other vehicle attempting to enter your space must be discouraged and if this happens speed up and try to ensure the interloper does not encroach. There are some bad people out there who simply have no sense of precedence.

When turning to the left or right it is important to signal your intention at some point in the process. Because people often change their minds about which way to turn the process of signaling is often best left until after the turn has been made just to ensure that you do not signal in error and confuse other road users.

When approaching a hazard in front of you it is best to attempt to steer around it rather than to incur costly wear and tear on the braking system. It may even be beneficial to increase your speed in such circumstances since the increased velocity of your vehicle may make the hazard go away.

It is important to position your vehicle on the road correctly and the white lines can be useful in this respect. When ever possible ensure that your vehicle straddles the white line and your hood ornament can be useful in helping you to position your vehicle correctly. On multi lane roads it is usually best to occupy the far right or so called fast lane since this will ensure that motorists behind you don’t break the law by speeding.

Black and white striped paths have been painted across many roads in city and town centres. These highly decorative road markings are for the entertainment of Foreign tourists who seem to enjoy walking on them – they require no special action on the part of the motorist.

Traffic lights are designed for your safety and have been installed to ensure a constant flow of traffic in all directions, at the same time. For the avoidance of doubt the green light means it is safe to proceed, the amber light means the red light is coming but it is still safe to proceed. The red light means that the green light will come next and it can surely only be a few seconds away so it must be safe to proceed.

When changing lanes it is advisable to execute the maneuver quickly so as not to inconvenience other road users. Newer cars are fitted with rear facing mirrors both inside and outside the vehicle and these are useful for checking makeup, hair you’re your general appearance – if you do not recall ever seeing these mirrors you may wish to go and examine your vehicle now. We do not consider it safe for drivers to use those mirrors whilst executing a dangerous maneuver such as lane change.

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

It is not possible to document all aspects of safe driving in this note because there are so many laws. Your local police have however been specially trained to understand all of the laws and and their connected fines. They will advise you if they observe you breaking any of them .

[Pi Sek]

It is not possible to document all aspects of safe driving in this note because there are so many laws. Your local police have however been specially trained to understand all of the laws and and their connected fines. They will advise you if they observe you breaking any of them .

Classic!

[RedNIvar]

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

Huh! Seriously, while driving. And the highway code recognizes that there will be times that we have to drink a beer and have a brief nap while driving!!! They suggest be be extra vigilant during such times. <deleted>. Is this some translation error?

[whybother]

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

Huh! Seriously, while driving. And the highway code recognizes that there will be times that we have to drink a beer and have a brief nap while driving!!! They suggest be be extra vigilant during such times. <deleted>. Is this some translation error?

Yes. It's a translation error. It should have said "drink whiskey".

Obviously the humour didn't translate too well for you either.

Edited January 5, 2011 by whybother

[Orac]

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

Huh! Seriously, while driving. And the highway code recognizes that there will be times that we have to drink a beer and have a brief nap while driving!!! They suggest be be extra vigilant during such times. <deleted>. Is this some translation error?

Yes. It's a translation error. It should have said "drink whiskey".

Obviously the humour didn't translate too well for you either.

What is more worrying is that only that part was questioned????

[Pi Sek]

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

Huh! Seriously, while driving. And the highway code recognizes that there will be times that we have to drink a beer and have a brief nap while driving!!! They suggest be be extra vigilant during such times. <deleted>. Is this some translation error?

It took me a moment to realise that this is a very well written spoof, too!

[Thai at Heart]

Thai Highway Code

English Version

2006 Revised Edition

Motorists should exercise due care and attention at all times and avoid unnecessary distractions, particularly from other occupants of the vehicle. We recognize that there will be times however such as when your answer your mobile, have to speak with the wife/girlfriend next to you, play with the kids to keep them occupied, drink a beer, eat, have a brief nap, change the DVD etc when this will not be fully possible. At such times we ask you to be extra vigilant.

Huh! Seriously, while driving. And the highway code recognizes that there will be times that we have to drink a beer and have a brief nap while driving!!! They suggest be be extra vigilant during such times. <deleted>. Is this some translation error?

Yes. It's a translation error. It should have said "drink whiskey".

Obviously the humour didn't translate too well for you either.

What is more worrying is that only that part was questioned????

For the first paragraph or so, it actually read like it could be the genuine rules of the road (in Thailand).

[asiawatcher]

Interesting numbers, from the thread about holiday accident deaths in Thailand over the New Years week, regarding unlicensed drivers:

At 2,533 checkpoints... about 825,000 vehicles were stopped and 100,587 traffic-law violators were charged - mostly for riding motorcycles without helmets, at 29,736 cases, followed by 28,482 cases of driving without a licence.

At payoffs of 100 Baht a head to the coppers or 400 Baht at the station! I wonder what in reality this is all being reported for - if this is the reported figure how many got off?