Thai MP In Cambodia Court Over Border Incident

[Steely Dan]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

[mkawish]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

[hanuman1]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

[mkawish]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

May I please be allowed to reiterate before answering your question?

Incidentally, last week, as I was watching another show, there was an interruption of the telecast with the now famous video clip showing the MP et al walking toward the Camb border land post #46 with a cell phone in hand and being following by several farmers holding pieces of some paper in their hands, which subsequently appeared to be ChaNote which farang called Warranty Deed.

The farmers were trying to show the MP and group that their legally owned farmlands have been encroached upon by the Camb refugee. Worse than that, they have now been threatened and warned not to return, unless they want to be arrested by the Camb border guards and imprisoned in Cambodia.

As the group of 7 were inspecting the farmland and walking toward Marker #46, a Camb man shouted to the group of 7 that if they continued to inspect without the prior approval of the Camb soldiers, he was going to get the soldiers to arrest them. Then he sped off in a motorcycle.

Sure enough, a group of Camb solders showed up and the 7 were ordered to stop the recording.

As far and as much as I could see and gathered, the 7 were arrested and forced to walk further beyond Marker #46, into Camb soil and the 7 were subsequently charged with trespassing et al.

Personally, it appeared that the Camb soldiers have successfully kidnapped the 7.

And the 7 were kidnapped when they were on Thai farmland.

hanuman1,

What do you think now?

Should the 7 be prosecuted by the Camb for trespassing et al....?

Or should the sissy Thai govt prosecute the Camb soldiers for encroaching upon Thai soil?

For entering Thailand without proper visa?

For kidnapping the 7, particularly, kidnapping a Thai MP?

Hopefully, your question is satisfactorily answered.

But then, why the deputy minister, SooTape and the minister of defense and minister of foreign affairs among others, all came out in unison immediately after the arrest

proclaiming that the 7 encroached upon Camb territory and therefore they should be arrested and should be prosecuted under Camb laws....?

And without any Thai govt interference....?

Many farang like myself have been very much bewildered and antagonized by these Thai ministers, what are they really up to, really.... accusing and betraying their own kind and their own MP....? Such a disgrace to Thailand.... It seems....

hanuman1, do you have an insight, pls?

[hanuman1]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

May I please be allowed to reiterate before answering your question?

Incidentally, last week, as I was watching another show, there was an interruption of the telecast with the now famous video clip showing the MP et al walking toward the Camb border land post #46 with a cell phone in hand and being following by several farmers holding pieces of some paper in their hands, which subsequently appeared to be ChaNote which farang called Warranty Deed.

The farmers were trying to show the MP and group that their legally owned farmlands have been encroached upon by the Camb refugee. Worse than that, they have now been threatened and warned not to return, unless they want to be arrested by the Camb border guards and imprisoned in Cambodia.

As the group of 7 were inspecting the farmland and walking toward Marker #46, a Camb man shouted to the group of 7 that if they continued to inspect without the prior approval of the Camb soldiers, he was going to get the soldiers to arrest them. Then he sped off in a motorcycle.

Sure enough, a group of Camb solders showed up and the 7 were ordered to stop the recording.

As far and as much as I could see and gathered, the 7 were arrested and forced to walk further beyond Marker #46, into Camb soil and the 7 were subsequently charged with trespassing et al.

Personally, it appeared that the Camb soldiers have successfully kidnapped the 7.

And the 7 were kidnapped when they were on Thai farmland.

hanuman1,

What do you think now?

Should the 7 be prosecuted by the Camb for trespassing et al....?

Or should the sissy Thai govt prosecute the Camb soldiers for encroaching upon Thai soil?

For entering Thailand without proper visa?

For kidnapping the 7, particularly, kidnapping a Thai MP?

Hopefully, your question is satisfactorily answered.

But then, why the deputy minister, SooTape and the minister of defense and minister of foreign affairs among others, all came out in unison immediately after the arrest

proclaiming that the 7 encroached upon Camb territory and therefore they should be arrested and should be prosecuted under Camb laws....?

And without any Thai govt interference....?

Many farang like myself have been very much bewildered and antagonized by these Thai ministers, what are they really up to, really.... accusing and betraying their own kind and their own MP....? Such a disgrace to Thailand.... It seems....

hanuman1, do you have an insight, pls?

Hi mkawish

How do you reconcile these apparently differing viewpoints:

The farmers were trying to show the MP and group that their legally owned farmlands have been encroached upon by the Camb refugee.

and

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

Your answer will doubtless move this debate forward.

[mkawish]

Please place your bets!

My money goes on a renewed PAD uprising just before elections.

and of course there after.

monkfish, You are the winner!

The yellowshirts are meeting en mass on January 25, 2011 to demand that Apisit's govt:

1--To withdraw from any participation in JBC to redefine Thailand territory to enrich the Camb.

2--To denounce and rescind any and all joint effort between Thailand and Camb in reference to PraVeHarn temple project and committee

3--To vacate and nullify MOU and all related matters on grounds that Camb repeatedly failed to follow the intents of the MOU by repeatedly encroaching intentionally into Thai territory and sovereignty culminating in illegally arresting the 7 Thai citizen on Thai territory; therefore,

To null and void MOU in view that it was also unconstitutionally drafted and negotiated without first receiving rectification and approval from the full House members. The MOU in question was concocted and negotiated by some ill informed and ill intended govt officials without first seeking and receiving rectification and approval of the House. Therefore, the MOU and all its subsequent agreements are therefore null and void, in view that the Thai Constitution demands that any agreement between and among nations involving Thailand must first seek rectification and approval from the House, which the MOU between Thailand and Camb ignored and failed to comply, among others.

If the PM Apisit and his govt fail to protect Thailand territorial and her interest, or

to choose to do nothing to protect Thailand's interest et all,

then per Apisit's own proclamation last month that as a premiere if he fails to protect Thailand and her interests,

then he would be a traitor and would have no place in Thailand....

the yellowshirts are now demanding that if he fails to protect Thailand territory and interest, then Apisit should honor his own words quickly....

Whilst I was 100% behind Abhisit when the Reds held Bangkok hostage, this bit of PAD nonsense has to be seen for what it is;- Looking from a Cambodian perspective are they supposed to be constitutional experts in Thai law and are they supposed to assume that negotiating an agreement with the then Thai prime minister would be void due to him exceeding his authority.

P.S I'm not arguing that Thaksin did not exceed his authority, but that you can't retroactively tear up an agreement with a third party after the fact.

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

So does all this mean you believe the 7 should be prosecuted to the full degree of Cambodian law, and serve the full sentences handed out if found guilty, or not?

May I please be allowed to reiterate before answering your question?

Incidentally, last week, as I was watching another show, there was an interruption of the telecast with the now famous video clip showing the MP et al walking toward the Camb border land post #46 with a cell phone in hand and being following by several farmers holding pieces of some paper in their hands, which subsequently appeared to be ChaNote which farang called Warranty Deed.

The farmers were trying to show the MP and group that their legally owned farmlands have been encroached upon by the Camb refugee. Worse than that, they have now been threatened and warned not to return, unless they want to be arrested by the Camb border guards and imprisoned in Cambodia.

As the group of 7 were inspecting the farmland and walking toward Marker #46, a Camb man shouted to the group of 7 that if they continued to inspect without the prior approval of the Camb soldiers, he was going to get the soldiers to arrest them. Then he sped off in a motorcycle.

Sure enough, a group of Camb solders showed up and the 7 were ordered to stop the recording.

As far and as much as I could see and gathered, the 7 were arrested and forced to walk further beyond Marker #46, into Camb soil and the 7 were subsequently charged with trespassing et al.

Personally, it appeared that the Camb soldiers have successfully kidnapped the 7.

And the 7 were kidnapped when they were on Thai farmland.

hanuman1,

What do you think now?

Should the 7 be prosecuted by the Camb for trespassing et al....?

Or should the sissy Thai govt prosecute the Camb soldiers for encroaching upon Thai soil?

For entering Thailand without proper visa?

For kidnapping the 7, particularly, kidnapping a Thai MP?

Hopefully, your question is satisfactorily answered.

But then, why the deputy minister, SooTape and the minister of defense and minister of foreign affairs among others, all came out in unison immediately after the arrest

proclaiming that the 7 encroached upon Camb territory and therefore they should be arrested and should be prosecuted under Camb laws....?

And without any Thai govt interference....?

Many farang like myself have been very much bewildered and antagonized by these Thai ministers, what are they really up to, really.... accusing and betraying their own kind and their own MP....? Such a disgrace to Thailand.... It seems....

hanuman1, do you have an insight, pls?

Hi mkawish

How do you reconcile these apparently differing viewpoints:

The farmers were trying to show the MP and group that their legally owned farmlands have been encroached upon by the Camb refugee.

and

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

Your answer will doubtless move this debate forward.

Panich told the court that he had "crossed into Cambodian territory unintentionally," his Cambodian attorney Ros Aun told AFP by telephone.

The Thai MP, Panich, was advised to admit.... crossing unintentionally.... would perhaps receive the most lenient warning/sentence....

Panich's and the 7's best choice under the circumstance, since their own Thai govt dispatches and disowns them so totally and shamelessly, is to admit to the least serious charge and implication.... which is--crossing unintentionally....

However, I was informed that there is an existing Thai law that regulates crime committed overseas will disqualify a person from being a MP....

Technically, in its truest sense of the word.... such fallacious admission constitutes perjury as well....

Well, as we farang all know very well that many a Thai would do many things or say many things, however contradictory....

just for expediency sake....

It seems this MP is no exception.

However, I do want to commend and congratulate him for being so public service minded that he undertook the task to verify for himself and his political party to find out once and for all....

if what he heard from so many sources that many Camb already occupy many of Thai soil and

Thailand already lost a huge amount of Thai territory to the Camb.... by virtue of doing nothing to push the Camb back out off Thailand territory....

Ultimately, as we now learn, the 7 paid a very high price for this fact finding mission.

But I salute you from the bottom of my little heart, sirs.

[Emptyset]

lol... no idea what Mkawish is talking about. It certainly doesn't match what I've seen. It becomes a lot clearer when you watch the whole 21 minute clip, which is now on youtube

.

Bangkok Pundit summarizes:

BP: At this point one thinks they will stop and turn back, but instead they walk on into what Veera stated was now deemed Cambodian territory.

At the 12 minute mark, you have Veera referring to the Border Police and referring to one officer who can help them if they get arrested as he helped him last time. Then after this they come across a (Cambodian?) villager who says this is a Cambodian village. They then continue walking and come across plenty of Cambodian signs and see other Cambodians, they buy something to drink. Then, at the 19 minute mark, they meet what appears to be some security official.

http://asiancorrespo...remove-context/

Edited January 7, 2011 by Emptyset

[Bagwan]

I could not but help notice that the 7 looked quite fit and well fed. Their new blue uniforms were quite fetching I thought, much nicer than the garish orange that Thailand favours. Even more noticeable was the absence of chains. It appears that the Cambodians are more civilized than their Thai counterparts. Slapping people in chains is totally medieval.

[Siam Simon]

Talking about placing bets, I wonder if Veera will be on the Panich family's Christmas card list this year?

[mkawish]

lol... no idea what Mkawish is talking about. It certainly doesn't match what I've seen. It becomes a lot clearer when you watch the whole 21 minute clip, which is now on youtube

.

Bangkok Pundit summarizes:

BP: At this point one thinks they will stop and turn back, but instead they walk on into what Veera stated was now deemed Cambodian territory.

At the 12 minute mark, you have Veera referring to the Border Police and referring to one officer who can help them if they get arrested as he helped him last time. Then after this they come across a (Cambodian?) villager who says this is a Cambodian village. They then continue walking and come across plenty of Cambodian signs and see other Cambodians, they buy something to drink. Then, at the 19 minute mark, they meet what appears to be some security official.

http://asiancorrespo...remove-context/

For the benefits of tv members, particularly Emptyset;

here is the blow by blow running commentary of the video clip--

.

If you like, you could have the video running and read the following translated English text at the same time to further understand what is going on during that fateful excursion to find out exactly where is the Marker #46 which originally defines the border of Thailand and Cambodia.

00:23 Did Pe-Timm go back?

00:27 Tell.... not to follow. In case, if there is something.... so we can coordinate. Let.... wait there.

00:30 Are the cellphones operating?

00:38 Last time when we were arrested, we lost our cells.

00:39 Try to dial out and see if it works alright. Mine could not dial out.

00:52 MP Panich making a call.

00:56 Ar-Charn (Teacher, professor) did not reach this road last time (before being arrested by Camb),

right?

00:59 I was arrested at that road and was brought over to this road and then boarded a car.

01:05 MP Panich asked--where did they take you to?

01:05 To a Camb soldier camp called.... near by here, within Thailand territory here.

01:10 Panich on his cell.

Hello, is that "Kiew"?

Can you hear me?

Can you hear me clearly?

If there should be any disruption, pls call "SomKiat", Premiere's secretary....

In a little while, I'll call the premiere myself too.

01:21 Tell SomKiat that we are crossing into Camb (camp) area.... so if something should happen, we

could coordinate our efforts....

Tell him, we are already crossing into Camb (camp) area.

01:30 But don't tell anyone else though, cause only the premiere knows about this.

We have entered just at .....

VIDEO CLIP WAS CUT OFF HERE, rendering the conversation incomplete as to exactly where the party was at that moment in time.

Apparently, Panich was answering the question as to exactly where he was at the particular moment, he sentence disappeared as he was saying, it was around....

THE SPLICED VIDEO showed a Camb farm woman answering question saying that she is now 64 (?). The Thai party asked to ascertain, 64? She said instead, 42.

01:53 Tell SomKiat to relate to the PM, but just keep everything underwrap for now. But I'll call him later,

should there be something....

02:00 Tell him we are crossing over already. We are trying to locate Marker #64 which should be pegged

inside Thai territory somewhere.... but currently it is occupied by Camb people.

02:37 Are there any Thai citizen living here?

No.

Not at all?

Thai people are not allowed to live here.

02:41 Thai people left here many years ago.

02:45 And they are not allowed to return.

There is a wire fence enacted around 1980.

Enacted around 1980?

Yes.

That has been a long time ago.

Yes, since the Cambodian civil war.... before Pol Pot era....

HuSan was then the vice-premiere.

Then, HuSan became the premiere.

03:17 Have the Camb soldiers arrived?

They might be celebrating new year.

03:22 Saying Hi to a motorcyclist passing by.

03:24 We can walk till we enter Camb soldiers campsite.

03:35 Panich--just walk into them, right?

To save them from having to come to arrest us.

03:38 Hello, Chief (village chief? perhaps).

Right now, we are walking inside NongJarn (?) village already.

No one come to arrest us yet.

03:54 Panich--this is smaller than Thailand abit in terms of size and dimension.

04:00 We are in NongJarn.

We are walking inside NongJarn.

We'll keep on walking until they come to arrest us.

04:05 Chief, you can wait in the car. Wait by that road side.

04;14 There is no posted sign of any kind whatever around here.

04:23 Or, Chief, do you want to catchup with us?

OK, then please wait there for the moment, OK?

04:30 Here are the Cows pen

04:32 Honorable Mr. Panich, over here is the Cows pen.

Cows pen that contains illegal cows.

Panich asked--Whose Cows pen?

(Answer) Thai Border Patrol Unit, Special Task Force Unit 4.

04:50 Panich asked--Whose special task force?

(Answer) Thailand.

And the Camb counterpart in charge was KongSun who might have been already reassigned.

05:11 Panich--And the villagers living here are conducting their daily affairs withot any problem?

05:18 They are Camb, they are not Thai.

In just a little while, we can interview the villagers and you can ask questions yourself.

Ask them yourself to see, if this is a Thai or a Cambodian village?

05:30 We have to ask them in Thai language, we can't speak Cambodian language.

(Please excuse me, I shall have to continue the rest this evening, there are some prior commitments that needs to be honored this morning)

Hopefully, this first part translation will help several of us farang who are interested in Thailand politics to ultimately understand some important points during MP Panish fact finding mission, trying to locate Marker #46 within Thailand territory, which ended in his and others, the 7, incarceration in Cambodia.

[Steely Dan]

If and when, a contractual agreement is found to be in violation to governing laws, that particular written agreement or part therein is summarily considered unenforceable.

For an enjoining party to claim ignorance, actual or otherwise, would not enable such party to render unlawful contract, lawful and enforceable. It pays to consider other party's legal capability, responsibility and liability before entering into any contractual and binding agreement, even among good intention friends and relatives.

It appears.... " thy days are numbered...."

The latest Thai national slogan is....

เรา รัก ในหลวง ที่สุด (we love our King the most)

และ เรา หวง แผ่นดิน ที่สุด ( and we are most zealous about our land)

Perhaps, a change of govt and policy toward more transparency and power and ensuing responsibility.... is looming at the horizon, again.... just another hope eternal.

Many long-stay farang also hope eternally that Thailand national policy would also include prosecution, confiscation, fine and jail term

for each and every officer and minister found guilty by the court of law. Just admonishing a proven guilty officer or minister to a new post or new geographical area.... just does not seem prudent or severe enough deterrent any longer; currently, there seem to be no more dishonor or shame in breaking any law of the land for personal gain.... imho.

Enforceable by whom exactly? We are dealing with an international dispute which has a jurisdiction higher than the national courts of either Thailand or Cambodia. I thought the international courts had already ruled on the matter, though I will grant you that this does not really matter if Thailand take unilateral action.

So what does Thailand do? 1) Do they march into disputed territory with their army and risk a border war, 2) or attempt to resolve things through diplomacy? Or perhaps 3) instead let loose cannon ultra-nationalists take matters into their own hands which will likely revert back to 1 or 2.

This little spat over a pile of stones is of course proxy for the horse trading which will happen with the maritime border and the oil/gas resources which are dependent on this. I hope option 2 is pursued here because if Thailand and Cambodia come to blows over oil then if I was the Cambodian leader I would get straight on the blower to Vietnam offering them joint development rights in exchange for a mutual defense pact.

P.S My visa is very much in order, but that is an issue solely under Thai jurisdiction.