Hybrid Cars

[Upcountry]

Today I visited an upcountry Honda dealer again after a year or so. I decided to ask again about Hybrid Civcs, etc.

After a couple of black-slacked buts running around, I got the usual "mai mie", "mai dai". I tried to ask about "next pii (year, etc), and got the expected blank smiles and head shakes.

Anyone know exactly why Hybrids are not practical here?

I get that the current manufacturing bent toward 1-ton pickups, etc., is not in favor of hybrids, but talking to my Thai brother-in-law I get the sense that most Thais are entirely ingnorant of this technology!

Do people/dealers in Bangkok know about hybrids?

It's been years now since they have begun to prove their effetctiveness. Aside from car manufacturer politics, can anyone explain why the PM and MP's act as if the hybid answer to fuel prices is totaly ignored?

I'd like to import one, but getting service would be impossible in current environment.

[Nordlys]

Today I visited an upcountry Honda dealer again after a year or so. I decided to ask again about Hybrid Civcs, etc.

I believe Honda Civic hybrid is available for fleet sales to corporate customers only.

Anyone know exactly why Hybrids are not practical here?

Because 80% import duty will diminish the saving on fuel for running hybrid, making hybrid not an economically viable choice for cost saving vehicle.

I get that the current manufacturing bent toward 1-ton pickups, etc., is not in favor of hybrids, but talking to my Thai brother-in-law I get the sense that most Thais are entirely ingnorant of this technology!

I don't think there's any pickup hybrid available anywhere in the world at the moment, perhaps not even in Japan. And I don't think it's going to start in Thailand. I was surprised to see trucks and buses running on hybrid motors in Japan though.

Do people/dealers in Bangkok know about hybrids?

Yes, they do.

It's been years now since they have begun to prove their effetctiveness. Aside from car manufacturer politics, can anyone explain why the PM and MP's act as if the hybid answer to fuel prices is totaly ignored?

I don't think it's ignored. They have reduced the excise tax on hybrid cars with engine displacement less than 3,000 cc to 5% (from 30 - 35%) last year. However, they have yet to reduce the import duty in a hope that will attract Toyota to assemble Prius locally in Thailand just as they have decided to do so in China. But that is totally up to the market and the manufacturer to do so. Thai gov't sure wants people to drive energy saving cars but not at the cost of sacrificing growth of the local auto industry.

I'd like to import one, but getting service would be impossible in current environment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't need to import one yourself. Independent dealers already do import and sell Toyota hybrid vehicles such as Harrier (RX300) Hybrid, Kruger Hybrid, Alphard Hybrid, Estima Hybrid and Prius (and perhaps more), all of them Japanese domestic market models as far as I know. Believe the famous Prius is sold here for B2.1 million but the reading on the screen on dashboard is all in Japanese. Frankly I don't think it's worth the price in Thailand unless you drive a very long distance/mileage and it must be hundreds of thousands of kilometers before you can run it into a break-even point where the cost of fuel saved on running hybrid will surpass the cost of import duty, by which time the replacement of expensive batteries will become necessary for perhaps more than once.

I wouldn't import a hybrid car on my own if I were you. How would you source the spare parts and get your car serviced? I don't even think the mechanics at independent dealers did receive proper training to service hybrid cars they sell (or for that matter I'm not even so sure if they have the service manual or parts catalogue for the hybrids they import).

Edited August 26, 2005 by Nordlys

[terdsak_12]

I've seen a few Toyota Prius around, all the Civic Hybrid, and the Toyota Alphard luxury Mini-Van with a Hybrid engine.

As typical in Thailand and laws not making sense, they promote fuel saving and tax the ###### out of Hybrid cars.

The most fuel efficient car in Thailand at the moment I'd say is the Honda Jazz.

[Upcountry]

Thanks Nordlys,

Your points about importing and manuals, etc. are well-taken. I would certainly explore all options to avoid importing entirely on my own, and at any rate, the lack of technical knowledge by upcountry dealers would keep me from trying to own on up here for now.

Imagine asking the local dealer (Honda or Toyota) tech to work on it. A Bangkok tech would probably have to fly up here.

That's part of what is so frustrating. First TRT has to drop the taxes, and the Prius has to get made here, and then time has to pass (for me) for the cars to become popular enough.

With all the talk about the ACE/Best Little Car project, it's beyond me why the government doesn't push to get hybrids build and sold in Thailand.

BTW, I think GM/Dodge and other manufacturers are selling hybrid pickups and SUVs now. Do a search on "hybrid pickups" to see more on that. Toyota is close, but not there yet, ironically.

One link discusses a military version of the Dodge Ram HEV (called COMBATT HEV) that can operate in stealth mode (diesel off) and save 15% on fuel consumption.

Lowering/dropping taxes on hybrids would not be enough, IMHO, by the way. I think the government would have to work with manufacturers on a educational campaign. It will take the hybrid pickups to make this a reality.

Terdsak_12, good to hear that there are a few hybrids humming around.

[chonabot]

I would ask Pepe this question and try doing a search on this topic , he had a particular interest in this subject and may have some info for you.

[rainman]

It's been 3 years after this topic has started and 4 years since the OP has started looking for hybrid cars in Thailand. Has anyone found any?

[Ray1167]

I believe The Thai Govt are more interested nowadays in developing a range of bio fuels , not hybrids , to combat the scarcity of fuel and the effect of current prices on their balance of payments. A couple of recent snippets from The Bangkok Post ;

Bio-hydrogenated diesel (BHD), a high-quality biodiesel suitable for blending to create a greener alternative fuel for vehicles, would be launched commercially after tests prove successful, said PTT Plc president Prasert Bunsumpun. Testing would be completed next year. BHD can be mixed in a 10:90 ratio with diesel fuel, produces less pollution and promotes longer engine life compared to traditional biodiesel. Toyota would supply Hilux Vigo pickup trucks and diesel engines to PTT for the testing. PTT has been promoting gasohol, palm diesel, B5 biodiesel and natural gas for vehicles to reduce oil bills and keep pace with the rapid development of energy technologies. Due to the high quality of BHD, farmers would also be assured that growing palm oil is worthwhile.

An initiative to introduce E85 gasohol, the 85% ethanol-blended gasoline, to the Thai market received a boost yesterday when the government decided to cut the excise tax on it. General Motors, Ford and Volvo are the first group of car makers ready to import their E85-fuelled vehicles to the Thai market. The three western car makers could also set up local production lines for the cars within 18 months. Japanese car makers said they could open local production lines of E85-fuelled cars within two years . They are currently working in Thailand to build ‘eco cars’ , so it is a bit of a late switch of strategy. Eco cars have been designed to run on E20 fuel with a maximum engine size of 1400cc. An executive vice-president of Toyota Motor Thailand, cautioned that carmakers would need huge sums of money to upgrade their production lines for E85. Criticism has been levied on the lack of direction "I just wish that the government would focus on one thing"...

[ray23]

Intersetingly enough there is a solar manufactor in Korat, but it does not have a Thailand distributor.

Somewhere in the back of my mind I beleive I saw a news release about Thailand manufactoring Hybrid cars. But for the life of me I can'tt find it again.

[Plus]

Toyota's chief engineer was very enthusiastic about building a hybrid Camry here but it will take years.

They can't just reduce taxes on importing hybrids at will, there's also a problem with service and maintanance - there should be nationwide coverage, thousands of dealerships, and no local spare parts. It's a potential nightmare.

Making hybrids here means 80-90% of components should be sourced locally and it takes time to develop the whole supporting industry.

The government has been busy promoting eco-car scheme though arguably they should have been pushing for hybrids instead and become a hybrid hub of SE Asia.

[Paragon]

If import tax on electric cars can be reduced to 5% then I seriously want to import a Tesla (www.teslamotors.com).

0-60 in 3.9 seconds.....

In US it is a bit hard to justify given it is twice the price of a Lotus.

But if can import to Thailand with 5% duty, it would be price a third less than a Lotus. Bargain.

If anyone can figure out how to get one with confidence, contact me and I will put my order in!

[kitski]

Few weeks ago I saw a Prius in Carefour CM, selling for 2.4M baht (about $72k). I won't buy it for that price even if it runs for free. That is more then double the price everywhere else, where you can get it for at most $36k with all features. Let's say that in Thai with all the taxes (5%, bribes, bla bla) at most $40k should be a reasonable price and I would take one at once. No joke.

Up to then, I installed LPG on my car by my own, and I am quite happy with it, quite featured Nova SGIS 2008 computer on board (I can connect to it with my laptop and play with my car from my keyboard) and it reduced fuel cost from about 3.5 baht/km (before) to 1.2 baht/km. Unless they will decide to raise the price for LPG (now 12.99 since quite a looooong time, it should be the time to raise few satangs ), I am quite happy with it. I spent about 40k baht for all the installation, but is now half amortized already. I think this was the best choice I could do, but still nostalgically waiting for a Prius

[katabeachbum]

Few weeks ago I saw a Prius in Carefour CM, selling for 2.4M baht (about $72k). I won't buy it for that price even if it runs for free. That is more then double the price everywhere else, where you can get it for at most $36k with all features. Let's say that in Thai with all the taxes (5%, bribes, bla bla) at most $40k should be a reasonable price and I would take one at once. No joke.

Up to then, I installed LPG on my car by my own, and I am quite happy with it, quite featured Nova SGIS 2008 computer on board (I can connect to it with my laptop and play with my car from my keyboard) and it reduced fuel cost from about 3.5 baht/km (before) to 1.2 baht/km. Unless they will decide to raise the price for LPG (now 12.99 since quite a looooong time, it should be the time to raise few satangs ), I am quite happy with it. I spent about 40k baht for all the installation, but is now half amortized already. I think this was the best choice I could do, but still nostalgically waiting for a Prius

Camry 2,4 Hybrid sells officially by Toyota at 1.499.000 baht, thats usd 42k. No need to wait

[stingray]

In my opinion: Hybrid cars are unpopular fot thirth workld countries. The infrastructure isn't right here. With all the flouting water on the roads, how much gonna cost all the repairs on Hybrid cars (damaged electronic, etc? I guess insurances would go much higher on a Hybrid anyway, to fix them up again. More electronic a car haves, more cost's for maintenance and service. I guess Somchai's Coconut Backyard Garage could not repair them anymore. So therefore Hybrid cars are only for "the upper 10'000", but not for the normal peaple.

[katabeachbum]

In my opinion: Hybrid cars are unpopular fot thirth workld countries. The infrastructure isn't right here. With all the flouting water on the roads, how much gonna cost all the repairs on Hybrid cars (damaged electronic, etc? I guess insurances would go much higher on a Hybrid anyway, to fix them up again. More electronic a car haves, more cost's for maintenance and service. I guess Somchai's Coconut Backyard Garage could not repair them anymore. So therefore Hybrid cars are only for "the upper 10'000", but not for the normal peaple.

Somchai can not repair a Camry anyway. The Camry, and any other car in this segment, is already loaded with electronics. Like no key or remote to be used, neither for doors or enginestart and stop.

[monty]

now 12.99 since quite a looooong time

Ouch, that is expensive!

Paying 11,09 Baht in Pattaya for a loong time now (cheapest station), up to 11,49 Baht in the most expensive station.

That's a whopping 17% difference!

[indothai]

I would not buy a Camry Hybrid. If a free one was given to me, I would just turn around and sell it quick.

I have a Camry 2.4V DVD Navigator and it will cost me 22,200 baht just to upgrade the map.

Toyota messed up big time with their navigation system in Thailand, who knows what else they messed up.

[yabaaaa]

How exactly are hybrid cars any good?

[BSJ]

How exactly are hybrid cars any good?

For Toyota, right?

a/ They make a luxury car margin instead of a economy tin top margin on sale of each car.

b/ To a lot of people they look like they are doing something positive. In actual fact Chevy are doing a he11 of a lot more by bringing Volt to market!

[yabaaaa]

I like the way they are touted as environmentally friendly.......cant see how at all!! Like the lectric to re charge them grows on trees?? well I suppose it did once if they are burnigng coal so therefore coal is environmentally friendly and being re cycyled.

[Benjie]

Hybrid cars recharge their batteries via kinetic energy provided when braking/coasting/driving in daytime/without AC etc... So yes, actually it is free energy.

[yabaaaa]

Hybrid cars recharge their batteries via kinetic energy provided when braking/coasting/driving in daytime/without AC etc... So yes, actually it is free energy.

Come on w e all know u cant get something for nothing??

How about the way the electricity is generated how about the metals used in the batteries whats the true cost to make wind turbines or burn coal or the steel used to make the car and the wind turbine and fuels used to make those ongoing mainetenance etc. Surely environmentally firendly means running whatever you have for as long as is feasable not buying new even if fuel consumption is hogher in an older car.

[gregb]

Hybrid cars recharge their batteries via kinetic energy provided when braking/coasting/driving in daytime/without AC etc... So yes, actually it is free energy.

Oh come on. Physics break.

This is recycled energy, not free energy. You expended the energy from the battery or the liquid fuel engine in order to accelerate the car to speed. All the hybrid does is recycle a portion of that energy back to recharge the battery when you brake, as opposed to dissipating it as heat in the brake pad.

And no, it does not recharge when coasting or driving in daytime (or nighttime) without AC. That would simply uselessly drain the battery. You can't charge a battery from itself no matter how many conspiracy theories on the internet you read. Hybrid does not mean over unity. It recharges when braking. When the liquid fuel engine is running it recharges the battery from a standard alternator. That's it.

There is no such thing as free energy or perpetual motion machines. Don't you guys have to have degrees in order to get work permits over here? How did you possibly graduate with these kinds of crazy beliefs?

Edited December 11, 2009 by gregb

[katabeachbum]

Hybrid cars recharge their batteries via kinetic energy provided when braking/coasting/driving in daytime/without AC etc... So yes, actually it is free energy.

Oh come on. Physics break.

This is recycled energy, not free energy. You expended the energy from the battery or the liquid fuel engine in order to accelerate the car to speed. All the hybrid does is recycle a portion of that energy back to recharge the battery when you brake, as opposed to dissipating it as heat in the brake pad.

And no, it does not recharge when coasting or driving in daytime (or nighttime) without AC. That would simply uselessly drain the battery. You can't charge a battery from itself no matter how many conspiracy theories on the internet you read. Hybrid does not mean over unity. It recharges when braking. When the liquid fuel engine is running it recharges the battery from a standard alternator. That's it.

There is no such thing as free energy or perpetual motion machines. Don't you guys have to have degrees in order to get work permits over here? How did you possibly graduate with these kinds of crazy beliefs?

Hybrid camry can not be charged from an outlet, so please forget all about 110/220 Volt. Its being charged from braking and decelleration, and if thats not sufficient from the petrol engine. This makes it use 25-30 % less fossile fuel compared to its sister with the same engine. In addition it doesnt pollute at low speed in town when running electric engine.

Thats not bad

Thai made Hybrid, like Camry, is heavily subsidized by thai government be reducing its excise tax. The price in the showroom is equal to its sister 2400cc petrol only.

Thats not bad either

In additon Thai government has purchased at least one Camry Hybrid for each governor office to make awarenss of Hybrid tech

[indothai]

If anyone is seriously considering a Hybrid from Toyota, do your homework!!!

Personally, if anyone is serious about the environment, then walk, use a bicycle, subway, skytrain. It has to be a collective exercise and not a singular action.

I once rented a Alphard hybrid in Bangkok.... had the screen showing the flow of electricity and how much fuel it's using, how much charge is left in the batteries, ... very amusing really!!! Amusing being the key word here.

Anyone want to guess the ratio of electricity vs fuel it was using.... here in Bangkok. Anyone.. anyone?! You'd be surprised.

[katabeachbum]

If anyone is seriously considering a Hybrid from Toyota, do your homework!!!

Personally, if anyone is serious about the environment, then walk, use a bicycle, subway, skytrain. It has to be a collective exercise and not a singular action.

I once rented a Alphard hybrid in Bangkok.... had the screen showing the flow of electricity and how much fuel it's using, how much charge is left in the batteries, ... very amusing really!!! Amusing being the key word here.

Anyone want to guess the ratio of electricity vs fuel it was using.... here in Bangkok. Anyone.. anyone?! You'd be surprised.

5-10%?

[Benjie]

Some people seem angry about this for some reason, hybrids do better mileage and create the energy to do so by as has been pointed out regenerative breaking, whats not to like?

One day it will be a standard feature on all cars, and why not?

Myself I can't wait until all cars are battery powered and I simply have a garage with a solar roof to charge it.

[katabeachbum]

Some people seem angry about this for some reason, hybrids do better mileage and create the energy to do so by as has been pointed out regenerative breaking, whats not to like?

One day it will be a standard feature on all cars, and why not?

Myself I can't wait until all cars are battery powered and I simply have a garage with a solar roof to charge it.

Todays hybrid cars do better milage by 20-30% in town driving, while fast highway is no better than sister petrol with same power.

Today diesel cars do better milage 40-50% compared to their sister petrol with same engine power.

Hybrid is a fashion way of quick solution for the US market. Diesel or diesel hybrid is more of a future.

[gregb]

Todays hybrid cars do better milage by 20-30% in town driving, while fast highway is no better than sister petrol with same power.

You can cut that city driving number by 30-50% when turning on the air conditioning.

It is still better than its non hybrid counterpart, but it starts to look less and less interesting. This, by the way, is why electric cars are still unsuitable as transport options in the tropics. And there is currently nobody seriously trying to address this issue. They are all concentrating on temperate climates in the north for obvious reasons.

I would still recommend CNG over a hybrid for operation in Thailand. Or, if you really want to help the environment, walk. I walk an average of 10 km per day. An average person walks 5 km/hr, so everyone has at least a 2km radius where a car is completely unnecessary. You'd be surprised how little need there is for a vehicle at all once you get in the habit. You'll save a heck of alot more than 10% on fuel, and your wallet will thank you also.

[katabeachbum]

Todays hybrid cars do better milage by 20-30% in town driving, while fast highway is no better than sister petrol with same power.

You can cut that city driving number by 30-50% when turning on the air conditioning.

It is still better than its non hybrid counterpart, but it starts to look less and less interesting. This, by the way, is why electric cars are still unsuitable as transport options in the tropics. And there is currently nobody seriously trying to address this issue. They are all concentrating on temperate climates in the north for obvious reasons.

I would still recommend CNG over a hybrid for operation in Thailand. Or, if you really want to help the environment, walk. I walk an average of 10 km per day. An average person walks 5 km/hr, so everyone has at least a 2km radius where a car is completely unnecessary. You'd be surprised how little need there is for a vehicle at all once you get in the habit. You'll save a heck of alot more than 10% on fuel, and your wallet will thank you also.

2 main reasons for tropic disadvantage

aircon needed

hot batteries can not accept charging as good as colder batteries

I assume the world is not ready for walking, but howabout a scooter with 80% saving on milage Going less than 10-12 km I never use my car.

[BSJ]

Get a scooter and reduce your environmental foot print. ke up my mind--politics or 76 billion?