Buddhism

[moses]

Is there any practising buddhist or people with relegioues knowlegde that can answer these questions for me?

What is the difference between Thai buddhism and Chinese buddhism?

I came to Phuket just after the Chinese Vegetarian festival, and the local Thais which I have known for a couple of years did some sort of ritual dancing the same friday evening as I arrivad at patong beach in Phuket. It was made out as a play with one caractor as an APE, an OLD lady, an OLD man and another caractor was a CHILD which was 11 years old. (plus many more caractors)

It was facinating to look at and I took many nice photos...

My Thai friends had turned there home into a holy place with buddhas and alters everywhere, even the local guesthouse reception was filled with paintings, buddhas and insense.

I asked one Thai friend what all this was? He said it's Chinese Buddah, VERY GOOD-before I did not BELIEVE, NOW I BELIEVE... (ok - good for you)

He explained to me how he walked on broken glass and hot coal during the festival and nothing happend to him, why he said because buddha come inside of me... (ok - good for you)

Another friend of mine which had the caractor of the Old lady in the play said to me that... Buddah come inside, and buddah speak through me in chinese language - that's why people bow down in respekt and worship to her (the old lady) in the play... ( Ok - good for you )

As the days went by I tried to figure out why all these people where suddenly so fond of Buddah... When they talked to me it sounded like an american television show with preachers talking about how they suddenly came to believe in their SAVIOR Jesus Christ - there where a time they didn't belive and they where living in darknes but now.... Jesus christ has come inside of them and now they DO BELIEVE.

Anyway-

I got acquainted with another of the local Thai's - we spend quit a lot of time together - at firts I didn't know she was involved in all the buddhist activitist and rituals but I learned that she was fasting every friday - going to the "holy place" which was in the "guest house" reception... I joined her one friday she was fasting (or only eating vegetables) At the "holy place" something suddenly came over her... I can not explain what it was - she started shaking and I was really worried, she then started to rip of all her jewlery - I was shocked and asked what was going on... The Thai's just smiled and said Buddha come inside of her.... (.....) okej well shit, this is a bit to much for me! I sat down on a chair just waiting.... She could not walk on the floor, because it would burn her feed... they laid out holy gold plated papers on the ground she could rest her feed on. They gave her hot water to clean her mouth from smoking cigerates... it all seemed a bit wired to me! She was in the state of an 11 year old child now... and they started asking her questions - it defently was not her that answered the questions, she became a complete different person after this seance (or what ever it was) She was acting like a child - and suddenly started to shake WILDER and WILDER and then the Buddah or the spirit or what ever it was left her and she came back to normal.

Can anybody explain to me in plain English what that was all about?

I understand that, believing in something very strong can make you do strange things but they put the emphasies on the Chinese Buddah instead of the Thai Buddah, Why?

Thai people in general are not that extreem in there faith, but something really happend to these people

Just curios!

[Candyflip]

Well, here is some explanation.

First of all, I feel sorry for you that your experience with Buddism was on the wrong track. Those things are not and never considered as buddism practice. The event that you experience was Holy vegetarian week which is big now in Thailand,especially in Phuket. Those freaky stuff that you saw are just a show. Some year ago, there was a tv show about these freaking things and some of those people confressed that was just a show, no budda comes inside like they mentioned. But its fun to watch huh?

So dont take it seriously about this thing. is that clear?

Now what is the different between THAI buddism and Chinese buddism? To keep long story short, Buddism originated from India over 2500 years ago. After the Lord Budda pass away, those monks were travelling around SE to teach Buddism. The different begins here, slightly by time each country has develop their own rituals and so on and HOLLY Vegetarian week is just some festival they celebrate for something ralated to their own story about Budda.

Hope my explanation helps u get less confusion. A bit maybe?

[penelope]

I wonder if in 500 years people will be worshipping Tony Robbinsism :-)

[kwiz117]

Is there any practising buddhist or people with relegioues knowlegde that can answer these questions for me?

What is the difference between Thai buddhism and Chinese buddhism?

I came to Phuket just after the Chinese Vegetarian festival, and the local Thais which I have known for a couple of years did some sort of ritual dancing the same friday evening as I arrivad at patong beach in Phuket. It was made out as a play with one caractor as an APE, an OLD lady, an OLD man and another caractor was a CHILD which was 11 years old. (plus many more caractors)

It was facinating to look at and I took many nice photos...

My Thai friends had turned there home into a holy place with buddhas and alters everywhere, even the local guesthouse reception was filled with paintings, buddhas and insense.

I asked one Thai friend what all this was? He said it's Chinese Buddah, VERY GOOD-before I did not BELIEVE, NOW I BELIEVE... (ok - good for you)

He explained to me how he walked on broken glass and hot coal during the festival and nothing happend to him, why he said because buddha come inside of me... (ok - good for you)

Another friend of mine which had the caractor of the Old lady in the play said to me that... Buddah come inside, and buddah speak through me in chinese language - that's why people bow down in respekt and worship to her (the old lady) in the play... ( Ok - good for you )

As the days went by I tried to figure out why all these people where suddenly so fond of Buddah... When they talked to me it sounded like an american television show with preachers talking about how they suddenly came to believe in their SAVIOR Jesus Christ - there where a time they didn't belive and they where living in darknes but now.... Jesus christ has come inside of them and now they DO BELIEVE.

Anyway-

I got acquainted with another of the local Thai's - we spend quit a lot of time together - at firts I didn't know she was involved in all the buddhist activitist and rituals but I learned that she was fasting every friday - going to the "holy place" which was in the "guest house" reception... I joined her one friday she was fasting (or only eating vegetables) At the "holy place" something suddenly came over her... I can not explain what it was - she started shaking and I was really worried, she then started to rip of all her jewlery - I was shocked and asked what was going on... The Thai's just smiled and said Buddha come inside of her.... (.....) okej well shit, this is a bit to much for me! I sat down on a chair just waiting.... She could not walk on the floor, because it would burn her feed... they laid out holy gold plated papers on the ground she could rest her feed on. They gave her hot water to clean her mouth from smoking cigerates... it all seemed a bit wired to me! She was in the state of an 11 year old child now... and they started asking her questions - it defently was not her that answered the questions, she became a complete different person after this seance (or what ever it was) She was acting like a child - and suddenly started to shake WILDER and WILDER and then the Buddah or the spirit or what ever it was left her and she came back to normal.

Can anybody explain to me in plain English what that was all about?

I understand that, believing in something very strong can make you do strange things but they put the emphasies on the Chinese Buddah instead of the Thai Buddah, Why?

Thai people in general are not that extreem in there faith, but something really happend to these people

Just curios!

Hi Moses

I am a Buddhist and from Sri Lanka. I think I will be able to answer all your questions here. I will stick into the real Buddhist philosophy when answering these questions as the practice of Buddhism and the philosophy of Buddhism has some differences like any other religion has.

Quote:

What is the difference between Thai Buddhism and Chinese Buddhism?

To Answer this first, I have to explain you about the two branches of Buddhism that exists in the world. It is called "Mahayana" and "Theravada". The original Buddhist philosophy and the Buddha himself can relate to the "Theravada" branch of Buddhism. The main concept in "Theravada" is to follow the "Middle Path". But with the time, Branch of monks in China split up over this and established a branch called "Mahayana" with some flexibility over certain aspects of Monks life. The main difference I can see is "The acceptance of Marriage for Monks" and the acceptance of "Materilism in Monks life" that influenced the people who follow them .

Now let me revert to your question.

The 'Theravada' branch of Buddhism introduced to Thailand from Sri Lanka. Buddhism introduced to Sri Lanka by King Ashok of India and he sent his delegations to all around Asia. These Delegations reached to all over Asia. But somehow, it did not reach Thailand as many of the monks died during the traveling from India to this region.

Sri lanka were under Portuguese, Holland and later England for 300 yrs and during this period, all these countries targeted Buddhist in Sri Lanka and tried to convert them by offering money and by force. This happened throughout Asia during this period.

The monks in Sri Lanka realized the threat to the Buddhism and they sent a group of Monks to Thailand [if I remember correct it was during King Rama the 4th], and established Theravada Buddhism in Thailand.

As predicted, Buddhism in Sri Lanka started to get wiped out and later after the independence, Thailand helped to re-established the Buddhism to Sri Lanka by sending a delegation headed by the most ven Upali Thero of the Temple of Aydhaya. [That is happened exactly 200 Yrs ago and last year Sri Lanka and Thailand celebrated this event together].

This happened during the time of the great King Rama the 5th.

But sadly, all other countries lost the Buddhist monks during these period of occupations and then later some Chinese Monks started introducing the Buddhism that they established by themselves in this region. As a result of this, the Branch of "Mahayana" came into the picture and the countries in East Asia including Japan, Burma and all around re-established the Buddhism under the branch of "Mahayana".

But still today, only two countries, [ie Thailand and Sri Lanka] share the original "Theravada" Buddhism in the world. The basic Buddhist Philosophy in these two branches of Buddhism today is still the same. But the 'Mahayana" Branch has changed with the time and have many different versions from country to country based on their believes. There is no Buddha called 'Chinese Buddha", "Thai Buddha" etc.. The carvings of Buddha images that you see in different countries will have some differences. That is due to the fact of how the artist who carved the statue visualized the Buddha when doing his Art. Even if you take Thailand and Sri Lanka as two countries following the same Theravada Buddhism, you will see some differences that a Buddha Statue in a Thai Temple and a Sri Lankan temple. No one can say which is the correct one as all these things have changed with time and we are talking of over 2,500 yrs period of time.

But when it comes to "Mahayana" Buddhism, "Materialism" is more attached to it than following a 'Middle path". That is the main difference between these two branches and the origin of these two branches.

Quote:

He explained to me how he walked on broken glass and hot coal during the festival and nothing happened to him, why he said because buddha come inside of me...

This reflects the stupid part of people. It is not unique only to Mahayana. [in this case "Chinese Buddha"]. It's simply the stupid believe of the people who follow the teachings of one another than understanding the Philosophy.

It's common in my country, my home town and even among some members of my own family. It's not only in Buddhism, even in other religions it is common. Having studied in an Anglican School I have come across many such situations. So your answer of "Good for you" is the best answer to give for such people and if you say "You stupid Idiot" that may also not be too wrong.

Quote:

Another friend of mine which had the caractor of the Old lady in the play said to me that... Buddha come inside, and Buddha speak through me in Chinese language - that's why people bow down in respect and worship to her (the old lady) in the play...

This is simply showing the lack of knowledge they have in Buddhism. Even today all Buddhist use the language of "Pail Sanskrit" to pray for Buddha. That is where all original Buddha teachings have been written. But no one knows what language Buddha Spoke. We all use "pali Sanskrit" as it was the only language that could be used in those days to write, speak and read.

The origin of Thai language, Sinhalese Language, Hindi and Tamil comes from Sanskrit and it has a history well over the recorded history of English though it is a dead language in todays world.

Quote:

Thai people in general are not that extreme in there faith, but something really happened to these people

You are 100% correct here. Thai people that follows the origins of "Theravada" can not be extremest from the religious point of view as 'Theravada" is all about following the "Mid path" of life.

As I explained above, the mix of Chinese influence grab them to this extent and it has become a style and a believe than a Philosophy. But still, both monks in Thailand and Sri Lanka with their strong relationships over the history holding into this but I am not sure how long we can survive with this influences.

Let me addup another good example that I came across in Thailand. This Chineese-Thai lady, 45 yrs of age, very religious and going to tample almost every week is a very good friend of our family even today. She is well educated and from a very good family.

Every morning, she take some flowers from her home or sometimes buy and worship to the Buddha Statue infront of the Company she work. Oneday when we were having dinner, I told her that I am very impressed with her respect to Buddhism and beign a buddhist, I never worship Buddha everyday or sometimes even for months. Her answer was.."I pray everyday that I will win a lottery and many days in my dreams the numbers appear". Needless to say more..

Hope I have cleared your doubts.

[kwiz117]

Well, here is some explanation.

First of all, I feel sorry for you that your experience with Buddism was on the wrong track. Those things are not and never considered as buddism practice. The event that you experience was Holy vegetarian week which is big now in Thailand,especially in Phuket. Those freaky stuff that you saw are just a show. Some year ago, there was a tv show about these freaking things and some of those people confressed that was just a show, no budda comes inside like they mentioned. But its fun to watch huh?

So dont take it seriously about this thing. is that clear?

Now what is the different between THAI buddism and Chinese buddism? To keep long story short, Buddism originated from India over 2500 years ago. After the Lord Budda pass away, those monks were travelling around SE to teach Buddism. The different begins here, slightly by time each country has develop their own rituals and so on and HOLLY Vegetarian week is just some festival they celebrate for something ralated to their own story about Budda.

Hope my explanation helps u get less confusion. A bit maybe?

If you stayed 17 yrs in Thailand, then you should know Buddhism more than me.

You have basically repeated the contents of K. Moses question than giving facts and figure as a Thai. Your answer is pretty obvious my friend.

By the way..you have spelled the word Buddhism incorrectly from the start to the end. It is exactly how many westerners spell it.

Sorry, I really doubt about your profile.

[Mig15]

Just like Christianity, Buddhism in Thailand has taken on older religious practices or these practices still exist side by side with true Buddhist practice. Ancestor worship is very common here and you can see the spirit houses outside almost every ones homes. Shamanism, Animism, the belief in ghosts are all religious beliefs and practice that still exist and in the minds of many ordinary Thai are all part of one religious set of beliefs. There are also the outside influences of other cultures such as Indian and Chinese people who have migrated to Thailand over the centuries and I suspect that the vegetarian festivals and areas of more predominant vegetarianism – such as in Chiang Mai - are a result of those people’s beliefs and customs. Buddhists, of course, maintain that Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy.

I have been present at some of these spiritualist ceremonies in a village in the North East. Where spirits take possession of people in the room. My ex-wife said that she had taken part in these rituals and been possessed herself when she was younger. She said that the experience was quite therapeutic and after would sleep for a long time and then feel good the next day.

People who are involved in a religion or in this case a philosophy will, it seems, always assert that there set of beliefs and practices are the correct and true form. However, I can see no reason to say that one set of beliefs are better or worse than another. Culture is dynamic and ever changing and religious practice is part of a culture and therefore forever being altered. Indeed, I would suggest that religion is different for each individual who experiences it. This may be easier to say as a non-committed observer.

[Candyflip]

The religion subject is always complex. I dont dare giving a fact on the subject that I dont know enough. The guy was much about wondering what he was seeing all about and that lead him to question about the difference and so on. I just simply explain what I do sure know. How many people have read this topic before I answered ? Load!!! but no one answer. I just wanna stop confusion among you who never experience such a festival like that to not mix up freaking stuff with religion itself.

Wrong spelling, no excuse!!

[gangstar]

Could any one tell me what buddas beleive about the creation of the universe and creation of the world, i once asked a girl who told me she was a buddist, when i asked her how she thouht the universe was created she pondered and replied that she had a head ache,

[kwiz117]

Could any one tell me what buddas beleive about the creation of the universe and creation of the world, i once asked a girl who told me she was a buddist, when i asked her how she thouht the universe was created she pondered and replied that she had a head ache,

Hi my friend,

Buddha never preached about creating of the Universe or the world. He was born 2500 Yrs ago in a village in Northern India. It is called "Nagadeep" and you can still see the places that we think he meditated during this period.

So your question to that girl is irrelevant similar to the questions you shoot at me by using PM time to time.

Also do not expect all Buddhist people to know about the Buddhist philosophy and about the Buddha. In my case, I learned it from my mother who has done Masters in Buddhist Philosophy. Otherwise, I may not be able to comment on many of the questions here.

Buddhist Philosophy is a science. In history, it says that Buddha had some powers where he was able to read another people minds. It is simply by developing his mind. Even today you get some people who has done Meditation and have come to that level. It's possible. It's another version of "Hyprotise" and even 'Sigman Froid" has commented on this possibility.

All other Stories are simply created by people who blindly follow Buddhism. Buddha is just a human who came up with a Philosophy saying the "Following the Middle Path" is the best way to live. Then he explained it and demonstrated it by himself doing good to the people.

With the time the stories changed toward the benefit of the people or towards the easiness of the people who wants to follow it.

Actually it is impossible for a normal person to follow the real Buddhist Philosophy and then live in a material life. It's not possible. So, people start coming out with various versions to call them self Buddhist and to show others that the actions they do follow Buddhism.

I for myself, is a Buddhist but do not follow the teachings of Buddha as I am not ready for it and can not do so much sacrifices in my life.

This is my opinion.

[gangstar]

So kwiz, how do you think or beleive the universe was created? i understand budda realy lived and i also think if every one in the world followed his teachings it would be a better place, just interested to know what if any they believe was the absolute beining of space and time

[kwiz117]

So kwiz, how do you think or beleive the universe was created? i understand budda realy lived and i also think if every one in the world followed his teachings it would be a better place, just interested to know what if any they believe was the absolute beining of space and time

Don't ask me..

I am not a Scientist.

If you need to ask anything about Buddhism, I will try to answer based on my opinions and from the little I know. If I do not know, I will say so.

Also I am not trying to say that what people think Buddha has said is correct. Just use common sense.

I am 28 yrs old and I think you are older than me. [correct me if I am wrong]

So do not try to act like a kid here by sending me stupid PM's.. Sorry to say that your intentions are too bad.

[gangstar]

O.K, your not a scientist, but surly your elders or your schooling must of delt with the topic of how we came to be here in the massive unending universe,are you saying you have no idea at all of how the universe was created or are you content with what you already know and what you are continualy learning through buddism, i beleive everything we have today is from discontent from those before us, would you agree with that kwizz

[kwiz117]

O.K, your not a scientist, but surly your elders or your schooling must of delt with the topic of how we came to be here in the massive unending universe,are you saying you have no idea at all of how the universe was created or are you content with what you already know and what you are continualy learning through buddism, i beleive everything we have today is from discontent from those before us, would you agree with that kwizz

Sorry..I do not worried so much thinking of who created the universe. Many Scientist and so many stories in various religions..Yes, I have read and heard some of those stories from people like you.

I am not arguing on a matter whether who is telling truth as we can do so many other things that will help someone than talking and discussing on a subject where no one can prove. Yes, when sit with my friends and a Beer in hand, I do discuss, argue over stupid subjects.

I do hope that you are not a day drinker and I do not drink day time to discuss more over this hot topic of yours. Right now, I am enjoying the way we are bowling out the England Team in Sri Lanka thru www.crickinfo.com.

So I propose you to join some others or may be to create a dummy name and start discussing the same with two of you. Up to you.

[moses]

Thank you all, and special thanks to Kwiz117 for sharing facts and knowlegde...

I have been present at some of these spiritualist ceremonies in a village in the North East. Where spirits take possession of people in the room. My ex-wife said that she had taken part in these rituals and been possessed herself when she was younger. She said that the experience was quite therapeutic and after would sleep for a long time and then feel good the next day

This was very similar to what I saw...

[Snark]

For the English speaking, 'The Middle Path' has been beautifully explained by Alan Watts in his writings, "The Middle Way".

I would ask that all keep in mind what you read, hear, of the various teachings is subject to your own interpretation. Subsequently, when you read translations of the Vedas into other languages you will always, to some degree, be getting someone elses viewpoints. It is entirely up to you, your discerning, how you accept them.

By the way, what little information or whatever one wishes to term it regarding cosmogenesis (world/universe creation) found in Buddhism comes primarily from the Hindu et al. You might want to read the various subjects taken from the Mahabharata and the Bhagavad Gita.

[cathyy]

"How did the world begin?" is simply the wrong question to ask a Buddhist. It's like asking a Christian "How do I stop the endless cycle of death and rebirth?" The question has no meaning. Christians don't have a principal death-rebirth cycle concept, and Buddhists don't have a principal Creator/creation concept.

The focus of Christianity is external. You do specific things, like get baptized and conform to a fairly strict set of behavioral rules. You must attend church and associate with other Christians. Christianity is exclusionary, refusing to acknowledge any value or potential for truth in any other belief system.

The focus of Buddhism is internal. You try to consistently and continuously become a better person. You can try to do it alone or in a group. Buddhism is practiced as a religion, but Buddha himself did not wish to be worshipped. Buddhism as the Buddha taught it is is a philosophy, not a religion. There is nothing to prevent me from being both a Roman Catholic and a Buddhist.

Nevertheless, Buddhism IS practiced as a religion in Thailand. It permeates Thai culture the way Christianity permeates Western culture. And the more I see of Christianity these days, the more I think about converting to Buddhism.

[KevinN]

I don't understand why anyone is even paying any attention to GANGSTERS questions,,what he asks has been answered in a very straight foreword reply and he continues to ask.

As far as I am concerned I to have never believed in Christian theory and religion,and it chills my shit, I do believe in Buddhism as it is not really a religion but a way to live your life,,just as the LORD BUDDHA said,,I am just a man, I was born and so I will die.

He never said anything about how the universe was created and I suppose he thought it was none of his business. I can't see how it can be a religious subject anyway,unless you believe the churchy shit,and then if you do then you need not ask a scientist.

[stroll]

As to the difference between Theravada and Mahayana, Theravada is said to be closer to Buddhas original teachings, Mahayana more extensive and elaborate, which one is 'better' or more truthful- up to you. Thais and Theravada sometimes like to find arguments to trivialize Mahayana, whereas Mahayana followers sometimes refer to Mahayana as the 'large vehicle' and to Theravada as the 'small vehicle'.

Over time, many different schools of Buddhism have emerged, in Japan the Zen- Buddhism, which is different from the others.

What am I saying? I don't know enough to elaborate further.

[stroll]

The focus of Christianity is external. You do specific things, like get baptized and conform to a fairly strict set of behavioral rules. You must attend church and associate with other Christians. Christianity is exclusionary, refusing to acknowledge any value or potential for truth in any other belief system.

.

I was brought up as a Roman-Catholic, and as much as I dislike it, I do try to be fair about it in discussions. Most practising Christians would disagree with what you say, so do I. The 'internal' prayer to be closer to god, and the (sometimes very misguided) efforts to live what one believes are widespread Christian practises.

Any institutionalised believe system has the potential of being abused in the superficial ways you discribe, this is not a sole characteristic of Christianity.

The world religions do disagree on the origin of the world etc. , but I am amazed when I compare basic moral values given to laypeople between world religions, they are so very similar.

[Snark]

Rather than attempt to post the various difference between the schools perhaps we could bring the World Buddhist Sangha Council into this where they attempted to unify the two schools.

http://www.serve.com/cmtan/buddhism/Misc/unify.html

[LoongJohn]

The world religions do disagree on the origin of the world etc.

Theories as to the origins of the universe and the purpose of the the creation of Man can only be theories, speculation.

In the olden times, men would ask their 'wise' ones questions which were beyond their ability to answer. To protect their positions in the community, they would reply "God did it - and you know what will happen to you if you question the word of God".

Sadly, in some places this attitude has not changed.

Buddhists recognise that some questions do not have answers, nor do they need them.

May all beings be well.

[wolf5370]

Exactly LoongJohn, that's why we do not all still worship the tides, the wind, the sun - we understand what these are now.

Have to agree with a lot that Cathyy said too - Buddhism is not a 'faith', but a guide to help us all live better and more fulfilling lives. Buddhists leave science to scientists - there is no 'creator'. So much energy went in to stiffling scientific achievement in Europe during the dark ages so as not to threaten the church's claims (Earth at the centre of the universe etc).

Most religions are inclusive - they, and only they, are the true faith; all others are infadels. Sometiomes this is believe down to denomination level. The respective churches made declarations - both in their scriptures and by their leaders throughout history - about things that they could not explain - creation, the apparant movement of the sun, madness, etc. Things were 'created' to cover these (Angels, Demons, etc). When your scriptures are 'the word of God' and your leaders are infaliable, then your faith can not be wrong. When at odds to another faith's teaching, one must be wrong (and thus the leaders not mouthing the word of God, or the scriptures not the word of God) - and thus the followers are not following the word of God = infadels.

Buddha made little attempt to explain things he did not understand. He was more concerned with the human condition than the movement of planets. He did not call himself omnipiant, he did not pretend to be - he was not the 'son of God' - indeed he did not believe in God. He wanted to teach what he had discovered so we can all attain cessation of suffering; he did not want to be worshipped - and asking him in pray for winning lottery ticket numbers is actually against the core of his teaching - desire/craving/anxiety. However, Buddhism has become a religion and the Buddha is worshipped as a God and supernatural powers are attributed to him. This is human nature, not his teachings.

[Lioneric]

I don't call other poeople freak, It's a nice word at all. Let me explaint, first they are five main religion in this world Christian,Muslim, Buddhism,Taoism and Confusion!. What you saw in Phuket was part of Taoism gods not Buddha.

This brought from China and the god name 9 kings Emperor. Something like the strory of Lord of the Ring. They lost in battle and beheaded,every year nine month of the nine day, People will received them from sea or river and will send them back on the 15th day of the month.

IN this Universal we have God,angels,demon etc, Those spririt who processes human are from good spirits,the reason is to bless mankind to do good to each other.Taoism have many super magic power like they normaly draw on a piece of yellow paper we called "Foo", which can use in so many way, to expel evil spirit,to keep in wallet for safety and some for drinking to cure body. Pls don't be mad for what I post coz I'm explaining Chinese Toaism and I am a Chinese myself, It's noting to do with you own belief,we just share knowledge here,if you feel these kind of people should lived in stone age ,you are wrong the reason it stay until today it have it's own way.

The Chinese normally mix Toaism,Buddhism and Confucion together.These people are not freak there only take out good teaching into thier daily life.

[Lioneric]

Weather you are Christian, BUddhism, MUslim,Jews etc is from a same haven and earth. If we look at Zen Buddha statue,Chinese,Thai they are diffrent design,Why??

We human always taught ince,kg which we have measure for everything and we asume Buddha is a permament kind of person but we are wrong.If Buddha born in America he will looks like Everlis Persely, Why? is to suit the local taste,to be one of them the local people only will understand HIs teaching.

Same as Jesus Christ, Do we know where is our cross is? Jesus always says carry your cross and follow me ,He doesn't mean we have to buy a wood cross or a nice earing from Italy to follow Him. We have been wrong too for so many years. the real meaning is we have a cross inner self,but where? Let you measure your right end finger to other left side of your finger end,it's the same as your height. Your right ear to your left ear with a string and it's same as your center fore head to your chin. I can't tell you the excet point center of human and center of Univers. All the religion in World are talking the same Center point?PLs don't argue weather have egg first or chicken first. It's all the center point who create everything in the beggining and religion who helps us to understand the beggining but it seems we have been more confuse if we know more. The center of the planets is the Sun.

The center of the human is in the head but where? we can lost our both arms or legs but not our head. We can change to a plastic heart,so it's not the heart or removed half the brain and still survive, so where??Welcome to twilight Zone!!!

[Richard W]

I am a Buddhist and from Sri Lanka. I think I will be able to answer all your questions here. I will stick into the real Buddhist philosophy when answering these questions as the practice of Buddhism and the philosophy of Buddhism has some differences like any other religion has.

The 'Theravada' branch of Buddhism introduced to Thailand from Sri Lanka. Buddhism introduced to Sri Lanka by King Ashok of India and he sent his delegations to all around Asia. These Delegations reached to all over Asia. But somehow, it did not reach Thailand as many of the monks died during the traveling from India to this region.

Sri lanka were under Portuguese, Holland and later England for 300 yrs and during this period, all these countries targeted Buddhist in Sri Lanka and tried to convert them by offering money and by force. This happened throughout Asia during this period.

The monks in Sri Lanka realized the threat to the Buddhism and they sent a group of Monks to Thailand [if I remember correct it was during King Rama the 4th], and established Theravada Buddhism in Thailand.

As predicted, Buddhism in Sri Lanka started to get wiped out and later after the independence, Thailand helped to re-established the Buddhism to Sri Lanka by sending a delegation headed by the most ven Upali Thero of the Temple of Aydhaya. [That is happened exactly 200 Yrs ago and last year Sri Lanka and Thailand celebrated this event together].

This happened during the time of the great King Rama the 5th.

I've seen claims that Thailand was originally Mahayana, but that the Thai kings steered it towards Theravada Buddhism.

The kingdom of Sukhothai (independent 13th century) was Buddhist, and Thai kingdoms since then have been Buddhist with some borrowings from Hinduism and varying degrees of animism.

In religious matters, there has been mutual assistance between Thailand and Sri Lanka. In the reign of Rama Kamhaeng of Sukhothai (c. 1275-1317) monks were sent from Nakhon Si Thammarat to study in Sri Lanka, and I'm sure there were many minor exchanges throughout the centuries.

Purification of the religion has been a two-way street. In 1753 Thailand sent monks under the leadership of the Venerable Upali to Sir Lanka at the request of King Kirti Sri to help in religious reforms there. One result of this mission is the Sri Lankan sect known as, according to my source, 'Sayamwongse' - the 'Siamese Sect'. This was 250 years ago, not 200 years ago.

Rama IV (1851-1868) asked for Sri Lankan help in reforming Buddhism - not in changing it to Theravada Buddhism, but in one of these periodic reforms which religions undergo.

But sadly, all other countries lost the Buddhist monks during these period of occupations and then later some Chinese Monks started introducing the Buddhism that they established by themselves in this region. As a result of this, the Branch of "Mahayana" came into the picture and the countries in East Asia including Japan, Burma and all around re-established the Buddhism under the branch of "Mahayana".

Japan did not suffer foreign occupation until the 1940s!

I was not aware of any massive erosion of Buddhism in Burma under British rule. Even the Karens are mostly Buddhist.

This is simply showing the lack of knowledge they have in Buddhism. Even today all Buddhist use the language of "Pail Sanskrit" to pray for Buddha. That is where all original Buddha teachings have been written. But no one knows what language Buddha Spoke. We all use "pali Sanskrit" as it was the only language that could be used in those days to write, speak and read.

The origin of Thai language, Sinhalese Language, Hindi and Tamil comes from Sanskrit and it has a history well over the recorded history of English though it is a dead language in todays world.

It was long thought that Pali was the dialect that the Buddha spoke. This belief was demolished when it was discovered that it differs significantly from the dialect of the earliest inscriptions in his home territory.

What is Pali Sanksrit? Do you mean Sankritised Pali? I understood that it was suggested to the Buddha that he teach in Sanskrit, but that he rejected the suggestion in favour of the everyday language.

[The Ghost of Phoolan Devi]

@ KWIZ 117

You mix up historical facts and dates:

Thero Ubali, or to call him by his Thai name, Phra Upali, arrived in Kandy in 1753, accompanied by twenty other monks. So Sri Lanka and Thailand must have recently celebrated the 250th anniversary of that event. If you go to Malwatte Vihara in Kandy, you see a plaque in Singhalese and Thai which will confirm the above date.

So, Phra Upali's journey to Sri Lanka occurred before the Chakri Dynasty was founded (1782).

You rightly say that Upali hailed from Ayutthaya. At that time Ayutthaya's ruler was King Boromgot (1732-58).

[snowleopard]

Lioneric Posted on Tue 2004-06-01, 01:08:31

  Weather you are Christian, BUddhism, MUslim,Jews

First,I'm just curious and want to establish WHETHER we're talking about meteorology or religion here!?

Weather or whether?

Christian, BUddhism, MUslim,Jews etc is from a same haven and earth

Christians,Jews and Muslims are looking for a safe HAVEN in HEAVEN by appeasing an imaginary deity they've created by themselves and for themselves!

The faithful Judeo-Christian-Islamic believers created their "Big-Daddy" in the sky long ago to instill false security during life;and in the hope for eternal life in Paradise after death.There life is promised to be easy forever!

It's a little like the analogy of a lonely kid who is creating his imaginary friend who will always listen to him and grant all his wishes;or maybe like a Santa Clause with extended "holiday-season" power all throughout the year!

Xmas gifts galore every day!

All these fictional figures are,of course,imaginary creations of the human mind!

Belief in god is transferred from one generation to the next by indoctrination and classical conditioning onto the "tabula rasa" minds of innocent children with the religious impressions of their community!

Genuine Theravada Buddhists seek inner peace themselves by trying to attain enlightenment and by doing good deeds during life.

No god is needed for Theravada Buddhists because karma is their law of cause and effect!

If there's a paradise for Buddhists,then that is an inner heaven without any fictional god or external master who's judging people's actions with the dichotomy of good or bad and then sending them to Heaven or Hades accordingly!

If Buddha born in America he will looks like Everlis Persely, Why? is to suit the local taste,to be one of them the local people only will understand HIs teaching.

"You saw me crying in the chapel...tears of...";or,

"You ain't nothin' but a hound-dog crying all the time.Well,you ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine"!

Yeah,baby!The truth and meaning of life gleaned from Elvis's rock 'n' roll lyrics!

A gleam of hope is shining through the Dukkha darkness into our minds!!Elvis lives!

Q:"Where have you been Mr Presley"???

A:"Errr...hmm...I used to be kinda dead there for a while folks,but now I'm back so... let's twist again like we did last..."!

Resurrection of his body or only revival of his music?

Same as Jesus Christ, Do we know where is our cross is? Jesus always says carry your cross and follow me ,He doesn't mean we have to buy a wood cross or a nice earing from Italy to follow Him. We have been wrong too for so many years. the real meaning is we have a cross inner self,but where?

The inner cross that you,and most of us,are carrying around is called "Dukkha" in Buddhism.Dukkha means suffering.

You can get rid of your Dukkha-cross by understanding the "Four Noble Truths" in Buddhism and by traveling the "Noble Eightfold Path", all alone by yourself without any help from a savior!

No need to follow Jesus or begging some non-existent god for help by compulsive praying and ritualistic worshipping while some obsessive religious thoughts and worries are tormenting the mind

If you're curious,check out my thread re the "Philosophy of Buddhism"!

It's totally up to you because I don't really care whether you do or not!!

Let you measure your right end finger to other left side of your finger end,it's the same as your height. Your right ear to your left ear with a string and it's same as your center fore head to your chin. I can't tell you the excet point center of human and center of Univers. All the religion in World are talking the same Center point

It's called the "Fibonacci numbers"!

Ancient architecs used the beautiful objects in the natural world for humanly designed objects!

Those architects observed beauty in nature and interpreted it as being devine inspiration for their art.

Their perception of nature having been created was entirely due to the fact that their ignorant minds had been saturated with the notion of a creator-god and religion!

The beautiful proportions in nature were measured and calculated into a mathematical formula by Fibonacci in the 13th century!

The Fibonacci series is 1,1,2,3,5,8,13 and so on...!

This is the Fibonacci series ratio,or the "Golden Proportion",which is 1 to 1,1618 (or 0,618 to 1)and can be found in all beautifully symmetrical shapes!

This apply to the human body as well as architectural designs such as "Parthenon,Acropolis and Pantheon"which were designed by man out of love for his own symmetrical body!

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"!

Originally,these are probably evolutionary designs that came about through natural selection as well as sexual selection.

A beuatifully symmetric human being is advertising to the opposite sex,and vice versa,that he/she is healthy and probably has very good genes for well-adapted offsprings which,of course,come about from being able to mate successfully!

Genes coding for symmetry survive while asymmetric genes become extinct!

No need for a divine watchmaker to create designs.

Gravity and natural selection give us the natural designs we see around us today;and humans design their own man-made objects!

I can't tell you the excet point center of human and center of Univers. All the religion in World are talking the same Center point?

Until only some 300-400 hundred years ago,the authoritarian Catholic Church still used their dogma in order to brainwash its ignorant believers into believing that the Vatican was the centre of our universe!

The Roman C. Church has now revised that position due to empirical evidence provided by Galileo Galilei,Kepler,Isaac Newton and other enlightened scientist who want to know the truth and can't accept stupid dogma from ignorant theists.

There is no centre in our universe unless you want to create an imaginary one yourself for feeling psychologically safe.

By accepting things on blind faith, you're giving up your investigative power on the way and obsequiously start licking the boots of priests,mullahs,rabbis and other lackeys who claim to be powerful servants of an omnipotent,omniscient and omnipresent god.

The universe is continuously expanding at an ever accelerating speed so there's no centre point.

Everything moves away from everything else!

There might have been a centre-point of energy in the universe some 10-15 billion years ago.

At the time of the hypothetical "Big Bang" that is!

PLs don't argue weather have egg first or chicken first. It's all the center point who create everything in the beggining and religion who helps us to understand the beggining

PLs don't argue weather have egg first or chicken first.

I've got a simple and insightful answer to your chicken and egg problem!

Q:What came first?The chicken or the egg?

A:Neither one of them did;because the rooster just had to come first!

Cock-a-doodle-dooo!Get it?

The center of the human is in the head but where? we can lost our both arms or legs but not our head. We can change to a plastic heart,so it's not the heart or removed half the brain and still survive, so where??Welcome to twilight Zone!!!

There are two definitions of death!Namely heart or brain dead!

A brain-dead person still has a heart-beat but he's a vegetable now;and he's basically dead if not aided by life-supporting machines and compassionate fellow human beings.

Without them,he would be dead in a heart-beat!Excuse the pun!

It's when the centre that controls the heart is still intact that the heart can pump away a little.

When some vital neuron areas in his brain are inevitably destroyed due to oxygen deprivation,he cannot wake up and become normal again.

In physiology,there is no resurrection of cells destroyed by necrosis!

Praying to a "fictional god" for miracles won't help him;but if the doctors were wrong in interpreting his CAT-scans and gave the incorrect diagnosis,then there's still minute hope for an awakening from the coma!

If the brain is irretrievably desroyed,then imaginary souls can't take possession and heal the injured person!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[The Ghost of Phoolan Devi]

@ KVIZ 117

... and where do you get the idea from that Tamil and Thai "originated from Sanskrit?"

Tamil does have some loan words from Sanskrit but otherwise it is a Dravidian language and has nothing to do with Sanskrit at all. If it had, you Singhalese and the Tamils would understand each other much better (quite literally, I mean).

Yes, Singhalese is of Sanskrit origin, but during the southward migration of the Singhalese (originally probably from the area of today's Gujarat and NOT, as the Singhalese chronicles claim, from Orissa) the language also picked up some Dravidian elements.

Thai has a very large vocabulary derived from Sanskrit/Pali, but it certainly did not originate from Sanskrit. Thai is a, well, Tai language, and it's only because the Thais moved southward from their original home in Sipsongpanna that they were exposed to Indian cultural and linguistic influences.

[Lioneric]

Snow leapord ,I really admire your intengent and knowledge

No need to follow Jesus or begging some non-existent god for help by compulsive praying and ritualistic worshipping while some obsessive religious thoughts and worries are tormenting the mind

But pls think if we don't breath air for few minutes our brain will start dying off,you think for all those planets only earth get oxygen?

IN Buddhism we respect other religions ,that's why there is less conflits and wars in Buddhism compare with othere religion in the world ,which have to kill people to convert into thier religion.

What will you think when you are lying in the bed for your last breath?Do you still think Jungle-bell or Sha -la la?????Beware coffin is for dead person not for old people only, your words might angry 'The Almighty Lord'.

[stroll]

Lioneric:

"your words might angry 'The Almighty Lord'. "

Which Almighty Lord are you referring to now? Or are you joking?

Sorry, I find it difficult to follow what you are saying, also your use of English is not always clear.

Snowleopard:

"The faithful Judeo-Christian-Islamic believers created their "Big-Daddy" in the sky long ago to instill false security during life;and in the hope for eternal life in Paradise after death."

Snowleopard sounds angry when he argues here. Are you saying religions and people who follow them are stupid, S.L.? And that science and Buddhism are about using one's own faculties to find the truth?

Keep in mind that the law of karma, cause and effect, is not so self-evident to non-Buddhists, maybe there is a degree of faith and subjectivity involved here, too? And I observe that many Buddhists turn to Buddha for trivial favors and assistance with prayers and rituals.

I must say, the longer I stay in Thailand, the more I discover how similar many practises are to the Christians. -sorry, I am talking about the layperson within institutionalised communities.