geordiebloke Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Hi, as you can see can see this is my first post on this forum and I'm looking for some very basic advice/ opinions. Basically, I would like to own a small business in Phuket, I'm thinking along the lines on a small cafe/ deli, or if I can convince some friends to invest with me, a small guesthouse. I am currently a British expat, living in Perth and have no family connection with Thailand. I do not plan to live in Phuket in the short term, but rather I'm looking to the future, maybe 10 or 15 years time, when I could retire or semi retire there. The question I have for you guys, is where do I start, I really am clueless with regard all of this. I have read through some of the posts on here, but at my level of knowledge, have been left more confused than when I started. Any advice or opinions are much appreciated. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 This appears to have nothing to do with visas but much to do with business so moving there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedObserver Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Save lots of money over the next 10 or 15 years. The way to make a small fortune in Thailand is start with a big one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) O.K. first the disclaimer...I'm not an "expert" on business in Thailand so I'll just give you a brief once-over...hopefully what I tell you won't be wrong. If it is anyhow I'm sure more knowledgeable posters will correct me soon enough. First of all, there is a list of "prohibited" professions permanently posted "pinned" on this forum. Certain professions are available only to Thai nationals, and foriegners can't engage in or run a business in these professions. So your first decision is to find a business you can do, one that is NOT on the prohibited list. Having decided that, you will need a Thai partner or partners...because as a foriegner you will usually be limited to a 49 percent percent share of whatever business you start...with your Thai partner or partners controlling 51 percent...by Thai law. It is possible to establish a business in Thailand...but there are always minimum investment requirements. You will need to invest at least the minimum amount required by the Thai government to legally start the budiness...and you will almost always be restricted to that 49 percent share...as I said with your Thai partner or partners owning 51 percent. There is also a minimum number of Thai employees you must hire depending on your business. I believe you need to hire at least 4 paid employees to run your business. In addition there is the matter of a Work Permit. You can not work in Thailand as a foriegner unless you have a work permit (at least not legally). If you meet the minimum investment requirement, hire the required Thai help, and have the required Thai partners who have a 51 percent share...you can start a company legally, making yourself the company manager/director, and have your company hire you as it's director. Then the company could provide you with a work permit...and you could legally act as the director of the company. And the final point...as a foriegner you can retire in Thailand...but doing that specifically prohibits you from working. So you can't be "retired" in Thailand and also run a business. Are you beginning to see how difficult it will be to set up a "small business" like you want? But if you still are interested....you need to talk to a lawyer who can give you the good information you need. It's possible to legally set up a business in Thailand if you have the funds to invest, the (trusted) Thai partner or partners required, the work permit (and the type B (business) visa needed for the work permit first), and pick a profession not prohibited to foriegners. But as you see....it's quite a long and involved process. And always remember the slogan we use, "In Thailand the easiest way to make a small fortune is to invest a large one first". Edited January 11, 2011 by IMA_FARANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 And maybe a few other addtional points: Be careful who you trust, both Farang & Thai Do your home work/due diligence in detail Make sure you have yourself a good lawyer As you can see in the above topics, business in Thailand for a farang can be very difficult and wrought with may possible pitfalls, right up to and including getting yourself "taken out" by the competion.... literally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ...rather I'm looking to the future, maybe 10 or 15 years time, when I could retire or semi retire there what will today's advice be worth then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) double posting, sorry. Edited January 11, 2011 by Naam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiebloke Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 O.K. first the disclaimer...I'm not an "expert" on business in Thailand so I'll just give you a brief once-over...hopefully what I tell you won't be wrong. If it is anyhow I'm sure more knowledgeable posters will correct me soon enough. First of all, there is a list of "prohibited" professions permanently posted "pinned" on this forum. Certain professions are available only to Thai nationals, and foriegners can't engage in or run a business in these professions. So your first decision is to find a business you can do, one that is NOT on the prohibited list. Having decided that, you will need a Thai partner or partners...because as a foriegner you will usually be limited to a 49 percent percent share of whatever business you start...with your Thai partner or partners controlling 51 percent...by Thai law. It is possible to establish a business in Thailand...but there are always minimum investment requirements. You will need to invest at least the minimum amount required by the Thai government to legally start the budiness...and you will almost always be restricted to that 49 percent share...as I said with your Thai partner or partners owning 51 percent. There is also a minimum number of Thai employees you must hire depending on your business. I believe you need to hire at least 4 paid employees to run your business. In addition there is the matter of a Work Permit. You can not work in Thailand as a foriegner unless you have a work permit (at least not legally). If you meet the minimum investment requirement, hire the required Thai help, and have the required Thai partners who have a 51 percent share...you can start a company legally, making yourself the company manager/director, and have your company hire you as it's director. Then the company could provide you with a work permit...and you could legally act as the director of the company. And the final point...as a foriegner you can retire in Thailand...but doing that specifically prohibits you from working. So you can't be "retired" in Thailand and also run a business. Are you beginning to see how difficult it will be to set up a "small business" like you want? But if you still are interested....you need to talk to a lawyer who can give you the good information you need. It's possible to legally set up a business in Thailand if you have the funds to invest, the (trusted) Thai partner or partners required, the work permit (and the type B (business) visa needed for the work permit first), and pick a profession not prohibited to foriegners. But as you see....it's quite a long and involved process. And always remember the slogan we use, "In Thailand the easiest way to make a small fortune is to invest a large one first". And maybe a few other addtional points: Be careful who you trust, both Farang & Thai Do your home work/due diligence in detail Make sure you have yourself a good lawyer As you can see in the above topics, business in Thailand for a farang can be very difficult and wrought with may possible pitfalls, right up to and including getting yourself "taken out" by the competion.... literally... Thanks for that guys, food for thought indeed. As I've said, I'm not in any rush to get this up and running and will not take it any further until much, much better informed. When I said retired, I should have clarified that I meant retired from my current job over here in Aus. My plan is to set something up in the near future, that hopefully would pay for itself or cover it's own costs and that later (10 years or so) I could take a more active role in. A friend of mine was on of 5 guys who purchased a share each of a bar in Bali, one of the syndicate ran the bar and was paid a wage for doing that, the other 4 just took their 20% share of the profits. Being able to do something like that would also be appealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkan Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 have you ever spent more then 3 weeks in phuket before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelerEastWest Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Understanding basic visa and tax rules can be learned in a week with some reading and questions to pros. Over the next 10 years learn Thai and you will be ready. But the most important part of a business in Thailand is the same anywhere - business skills - end of story. Do you understand accounting, business law, recruiting. marketing and so on? If you do you can adapt. If you started a business or two before and done well you will be fine in Thailand. Most of those who post about business problems in Thailand have little business experience. For every special problem here there is something good to offset it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVinylMan Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 One thing i say to all my customers who say they would love to live and have a business in thailand............ Only invest what you can afford to lose........... You do not know whats gonna happen from one day to the next. Good luck with what ever you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiebloke Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 Understanding basic visa and tax rules can be learned in a week with some reading and questions to pros. Over the next 10 years learn Thai and you will be ready. But the most important part of a business in Thailand is the same anywhere - business skills - end of story. Do you understand accounting, business law, recruiting. marketing and so on? If you do you can adapt. If you started a business or two before and done well you will be fine in Thailand. Most of those who post about business problems in Thailand have little business experience. For every special problem here there is something good to offset it. One thing i say to all my customers who say they would love to live and have a business in thailand............ Only invest what you can afford to lose........... You do not know whats gonna happen from one day to the next. Good luck with what ever you decide. Many thanks for your input gentlemen, I will take your comments on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordiebloke Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 have you ever spent more then 3 weeks in phuket before? oh, I'm sorry, do most people arrive, decide to stay for a few years, then start a business???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 have you ever spent more then 3 weeks in phuket before? oh, I'm sorry, do most people arrive, decide to stay for a few years, then start a business???? Some do believe it or not... .... " travellereastwest" is spouting business text book theroy. ....The text books dont address the weekly contributions to the "Policeman's Ball" ,how as a Farang deal with competitors who are trying to burn down your bar/business etc Not trying to put you off, but as suggested in my previous post...do your reasearch...certainly the news stories of things which go on in Phuket/Pattaya etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelerEastWest Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 have you ever spent more then 3 weeks in phuket before? oh, I'm sorry, do most people arrive, decide to stay for a few years, then start a business???? Some do believe it or not... .... " travellereastwest" is spouting business text book theroy. ....The text books dont address the weekly contributions to the "Policeman's Ball" ,how as a Farang deal with competitors who are trying to burn down your bar/business etc Not trying to put you off, but as suggested in my previous post...do your reasearch...certainly the news stories of things which go on in Phuket/Pattaya etc Soutpeel, Actually - I am describing reality - I have a growing business in Thailand and know many others Thai and Expat who also do well as long as they have skills and prior experience doing a good job running a business. Cultural awareness helps and grows over time. Some do well without experience or education but it can be more of a challenge. The majority of those who do not do well have only their own actions to blame and blaming the system is not a healthy way to be... Thailand does indeed have special challenges as does most locations but dealing with fires etc is not typical not in Bangkok anyway. A bigger concern can be recruiting and training and keeping staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb78 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 have you ever spent more then 3 weeks in phuket before? oh, I'm sorry, do most people arrive, decide to stay for a few years, then start a business???? Some do believe it or not... .... " travellereastwest" is spouting business text book theroy. ....The text books dont address the weekly contributions to the "Policeman's Ball" ,how as a Farang deal with competitors who are trying to burn down your bar/business etc Not trying to put you off, but as suggested in my previous post...do your reasearch...certainly the news stories of things which go on in Phuket/Pattaya etc Soutpeel, Actually - I am describing reality - I have a growing business in Thailand and know many others Thai and Expat who also do well as long as they have skills and prior experience doing a good job running a business. Cultural awareness helps and grows over time. Some do well without experience or education but it can be more of a challenge. The majority of those who do not do well have only their own actions to blame and blaming the system is not a healthy way to be... Thailand does indeed have special challenges as does most locations but dealing with fires etc is not typical not in Bangkok anyway. A bigger concern can be recruiting and training and keeping staff. well said Soutpeel. we all learn from experience. I have small bike repair and custom bike service business in Pattaya and i been struggling for the past 2-1/2 year. I dont advertise; it's all word of mouth. Very hard at first, not easy paying rent everymonth. But things started to look a bit better now. Customer trust me, my staff trust me and I trust them. And i dont over charge or rip them off. No double standard in my shop - Thai and Farang are same labor rate. Keep to your work ethic and standard. If opening a business, give yourself 3-5 year. If you are still around, congrad! you made it. dont even think about getting rich, think about just getting by. if you are not in the hole, you are doing ok. and everything said up to this point is all true. Business in thailand can be brutal, but nothing personal, just business. Good luck and i hope you dont end up opening a bar...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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