Foreign Crime Gang Activity Increasing In Pattaya

[housepainter]

An honest system would fight crime. Unfortunately, any resemblance to that system in Thailand is swamped by a morass of immorality, impoverishment and dishonesty.

To put the best gloss on the Police is to accept they are under resourced. Therefore, unable to respond in the way that we as Westerners would expect. The training of Police seems to be woefully adequate, as they seem little capable of anything other than stopping motorbikes and extracting small fines. They can be seen lining their pockets lining the highways and flagging down trade vehicles mostly.

Furthermore, a few years back there was the tsunami and the forensic science debacle. The Police basically asking the question 'what's forensic science?' PC Plod posing at the Pattaya crime scene leaving his bloody footprints as he tramps around being photographed is due to ignorance as well as vanity.

I think there you have it. Police methods do resemble an assembly of Robert Peel's 'peelers' and yes, Thai Police do carry wooden clubs. The fact such clubs are varnished shows the advancement in technology to aid crime fighting. And they give them guns to play with.

Despite the obvious engrained problems of poor pay, training and legitimate advancement within the force, one has to consider the moral fibre of the individuals employed. It seems that with the acceptance of smoking on duty, drinking in uniform and being considered to be 'off duty' by removing one's shirt, little headway has been made in the way of raising public perception or standards.

In deed, many Police in their ubiquitous sun glasses, whether day or night, resemble thugs about to commit a mugging. Only being armed it doesn't stop, or even start, with a mugging. If only it did. They even have organised Station access to guns to plant on victims.

I have avoided commenting on the average intelligence, intuition or detective abilites of such officers. There must be something lost in translation as when even the highest ranking officers make comments to the media by way of TV or newspapers they display the logic and reasoning ability of a 9 year old or well trained sheep dog. Even sanctioning the judicial killing of trapped suspects is something that the higher levels of Policing condones, instructs, oversees and this is unacceptable. For it is the powers that be that turn the Force into the thuggish, ill-disciplined cabal that it is. If it is rotten at the top, what hope is there at the bottom?

The economic argument that low pay leads to corruption does not explain the engrained greed that pervades so much of Thai society as a whole. The Police are simply a part of that problem. Hence, raising pay would merely be wreckless as it would not lead to improved performance.

With this catch 22 situation it would seem that the way to fight crime, particualrly Organised crime is to turn to the Army. The establishment of paramilitary groups, as seen in some of the countries where the mafiosi currently in Thailand and Pattaya in particular come from, may be the only answer.

The use of the Army per se would merely replicate the problems associated with the Police. Therefore, the formation of a para force of selected individuals may be the only answer. However, in doing that they would be fighting not only the mafia criminals but also the uniformed ones as well. The powers given would have to be total. But that would threaten the power base of the Army. As the Army currently holds sway over any government, ultimately by way of coup, circumventing it is inviting its wrath.

The impact of such measures, para military forces hitting the streets in Pattaya and elsewhere would almost certainly deter tourists. It would resemble a terrorist war zone with security checks, armed foot patrols and circling vehicles constantly rounding Beach and Second Road.

Crime would not be ignored or condoned and the open air prostitutes would disappear. This begs the question of whether a clean up is actually wanted by anyone? The drop in skimmed off illegal earnings would be massive; it would hit organised crime, but without an external body in charge the local operators would negate the action.

Pattaya is run by the legitimate face of organised crime. This is not the same as accepting that corruption has to take place in order to do business in Pattaya. Criminal families have penetrated civil positions whereby they control public spending; they hold the town hall budgets. They sit in City Hall. They run Pattaya. The gangster names are well known as are the smiling faces of the sons who hold civic office. Then there are the foreign nationals with their mini media empires working hand in hand with fellow influential forces. How I do love those Thai euphemisms. Such is there arrogant security that they stare down from bill board posters and put themselves on TV! Al Capone had to be dragged to court for that to happen. He went down with syphallis so there'll be a much higher chance of this lot in Pattaya getting the pox than there ever was in Chcago.

As long as this system of immunity is allowed there is no hope of any clean up. Anti-biotics won't tackle this filth.

When you consider the scale of operation of the Russian mafia, the fact the US embassy in Bangkok report on it, cosider that the Thai mafia in City Hall allowed them in. With the abuse of power they could equally remove them. The escalation of redress should not be underestimated and would not stop at anything less than a series of down town bombings, aimed at spreading panic amongst the population. Tourism would be halted over night.

Again, it underlines the need to wipe the slate clean effectively, by external means, targetting the mafia. That is, both foreign and Thai. It does mean the application of proceedings against those of unusual wealth. That silly Thai euphemism for the wealthy by corrupt means. It highlights the impossibility of taking such action without inflicting massive collateral damage on a largely innocent bystanding tourist population that supplies the wealth.

Will it happen? Most certainly not as Thailand has many problems and non seem to ever get tackled.There is no resolution, drive or desire to improve quality of life amongst the population themselves. Can anyone ever see a revolution of the people in Thailand? Obscure Tunisia has 23 years of autocratic rule and finally stages a revolution. Thailand has 50 odd years of almost military rule and turns out to wave flags.

If the people don't help themselves and seek change then what can be done? Haiti over throws the Papa Docs in favour of democracy but after an earth quake and cholera welcomes back the son. It seems any fix is better than working towards the stabilistaion of democracy.

In conclusion I think there is little hope of change. Improvement by way of replacing bad with good receives lip service at best. The application of the rule of law is lacking along with the will to deliver justice. There is terrorism in the South that will not go away due to its fundamental Islamist base. The ingredients are there for a failed state as should the red shirts ever see their enemies as actually being based within their poverty stricken Provinces and not Bangkok, and target them accordingly, the Army and Government would be powerless to act. Resources can be concentrated in down town Bangkok. But should Isan turn violent along with the Central Plains then an Army response would be spread too thinly to be effective. We see that already in Yala, Pattani and Narathewat.

It does look black. Failed states are a reality today. The targetting of Thailand by Iran as a major drug route adds the final ingredient that the likes of Guatamala possess. If the world can't deal with Iran over its nucleur programme then there is no hope of expecting co-operation with heroin smuggling. And there will be no one to help. US intervention doesn't happen when the threat is not to the US and far away. Thailand would soon find out who its friends aren't. Maybe Russia would come to help. The same Russia that sanctioned the work of Victor Bout and fought so hard to keep him out of US hands. Oh yes, I can see Russia being a big help to Thailand.

There's a containable problem currently concentrated on Pattaya. Where the drugs, prostitution and money is.

Sadly it's also where the Thais long to be.

Edited January 19, 2011 by housepainter

[61guitarman61]

Just be glad there is no audio on here......................

[Pui]

I could have told you without Wikileaks. Seeing for many years Russkies running in shorts, loaded with diamond bracelets, necklaces -you only saw at TV or auctions. They are not afraid to show who they are.

Just cause people are flash it doesn't make them criminals. Its just "New Money" people from poor countries do wear jewellery and clothes that people from formally wealthy countries might find distasteful and ostentatious. You can't automatically brand them as criminals. They where after all a very repressed people. They can now travel and own business in the former soviet union.

This high season has seen a lot more Russians and middle eastern tourists visiting Pattaya as well as Chinese. On the other hand far less English, Australian and Americans. The demographic of Pattaya is changing but this has more to do with world Economics and currencies exchange than an influx of criminals.

We are not seeing shootings, open drug dealing or protection rackets or any rise in crime. Just more people wearing fancy jewellery.

Pattaya is going a bit more up market.

The bars where empty but the 5 star hotels where full.

[patayayaya]

the russians own pattaya ask any thai from anywhere it is i'd rather russians than arabs any day.

[scania]

I think it would be cheaper and more benificial to Pattaya if they kept the mafia and got rid of the corrupt Police and Officials who are killing this country

Wouldn't you have to get rid of the corrupt politicians first or is that who you mean by 'officials'?

International gangsters are everywhere, nothing new. Why is Samui never mentioned when we talk about gangsters in Thailand. Report in the Observer had a higher ratio of 'bar girls' per head of pop. in Samui than in Pattaya (and more guns). A log of the dregs shifted from Phuket to Samui after the 'big wave' hit.

Is Samui really so bad? 20 years ago, there wasn't even a massage parlour on the island or a sigle go-go bar! Haven't been there for more than 10 years now! And Koh Tao? Koh Samet? Kog Chang (Taksin's VIP-tourism preference...)

20 years ago??? Do you really think nothing has changed in 20 years??? or you mention both 20 and then 10 but I think everybody should know everything changes here every year even every month or week. And having a massages or a go go is a bad thing??? which planet are you from??? themostcivilisedplanetoftheuniverse which hates everything good (or as you would call it bad)

[patayayaya]

No surprise, and no surprise of the countries which they predominantly eminate from. Though, sadly to Thais, if you have white skin, Latino, Russian, European or Australian, we are all the same.

I hope, that any steps taken to stop this activity (e.g. restrictions on maximum stays, reporting etc) will be evenly applied, meaning that only those of offending nations will be punished, perhaps encouraging those same nations to be a little more selective on who they let out of the country, and what information they provide to any country these people visit.

I know as a New Zealander, I have never met a Kiwi or Australian organised crime person, though Im sure they exist. Would hate to see our guys punished by further restrictions because of what some Russian or South Americans who do not even speak a common language to us did...

if they are involved in organised crime you probly arent gonna know im sure there are some crook aussies out there mate c'mon australia is a convict colony. by the way im half kiwi half aussie

Edited January 19, 2011 by patayayaya

[Naam]

I know as a New Zealander, I have never met a Kiwi or Australian organised crime person, though Im sure they exist. Would hate to see our guys punished by further restrictions because of what some Russian or South Americans who do not even speak a common language to us did...

especially those from South and Central America should be banned because they don't speak a common language which is definitely a sign of criminal tendencies, e.g. in Brazil they speak Portuguese, in Argentina they speak Spanish, in Uruguay they speak Spanish, in Paraguay they speak Spanish, in Chile they speak Spanish, in Peru they speak Spanish, in Ecuador they speak Spanish, in Colombia they speak Spanish, in Bolivia they speak Spanish, in Venezuela they speak Spanish, in Panama they speak Spanish, in Belize they speak Spanish, in Nicaragua they speak Spanish, in El Salvador they speak Spanish, in Honduras they speak Spanish, in Guatemala they speak Spanish...

[Ave]

I think it would be cheaper and more benificial to Pattaya if they kept the mafia and got rid of the corrupt Police and Officials who are killing this country

nice one!

[Naam]

[Deeral]

most of the expats I meet who are "retirees" are either involved in some "shady" activity or were involved in crime back home - but of course they didn't consider themselves criminals then nor do they now.

THe foreign gangster want big, quick easy money - they NEED the ignorant expat to do this

[Deeral]

Judging by the rapidity and virulence of the responses we are talking directly to some of the expat underworld right now!

BIB! Note them down, you might want to check up on them!

[Digicat]

With the exception of the horrid green color I am with you on this one. I am equally disgusted by the ฝรั่งขี้นก but I don't see the problem being solved anytime to soon. That's the sad part. At least one person here see's it the way I do

Edited January 21, 2011 by cdnvic
removed excessive quoting

[61guitarman61]

With the exception of the horrid green color I am with you on this one. I am equally disgusted by the ฝรั่งขี้นก but I don't see the problem being solved anytime to soon. That's the sad part. At least one person here see's it the way I do

Sorry for the color............. glad at least one person thinks there is more to life than the walking street parties.

Edited January 21, 2011 by cdnvic
removed excessive quoting

[mark2552]

I could have told you without Wikileaks. Seeing for many years Russkies running in shorts, loaded with diamond bracelets, necklaces -you only saw at TV or auctions. They are not afraid to show who they are.

[bartender100]

most of the expats I meet who are "retirees" are either involved in some "shady" activity or were involved in crime back home - but of course they didn't consider themselves criminals then nor do they now.

THe foreign gangster want big, quick easy money - they NEED the ignorant expat to do this

You need to get out more, i live in Pattaya and my circle of friends are mainly retirees, but non fill your description.

I am just wondering how many people commenting on this thread actually live in Thailand, let alone Pattaya.

You would get the impression from reading some truly ridiculous posts that gangs of Russian's are walking around ripping people off, selling drugs, and pimping women, get a life guys please

[meelousee]

No matter which end of the snake you fight the head is in S.America & Russia both run by the same crime syndicates. Vory or Mafia what ever you chose to call them.

The mules/workers families in S.America are held near hostage by some very violent and powerful crime lords and they are Russian.

Dont know if my previous post on the same issue is still around but I said as much in that post also.

[Xonax]

I know as a New Zealander, I have never met a Kiwi or Australian organised crime person, though Im sure they exist. Would hate to see our guys punished by further restrictions because of what some Russian or South Americans who do not even speak a common language to us did...

especially those from South and Central America should be banned because they don't speak a common language which is definitely a sign of criminal tendencies, e.g. in Brazil they speak Portuguese, in Argentina they speak Spanish, in Uruguay they speak Spanish, in Paraguay they speak Spanish, in Chile they speak Spanish, in Peru they speak Spanish, in Ecuador they speak Spanish, in Colombia they speak Spanish, in Bolivia they speak Spanish, in Venezuela they speak Spanish, in Panama they speak Spanish, in Belize they speak Spanish, in Nicaragua they speak Spanish, in El Salvador they speak Spanish, in Honduras they speak Spanish, in Guatemala they speak Spanish...

Spanish happens to be the most commonly spoken language in the world (second is Chinese)!!

[Beetlejuice]

Two persons, I go along with much of what you say, makes sense to me.

Just to add, not sure whether or not you will agree, I think there has to be a much tightening up of Immigration policies in Thailand.

At the present, anyone can just leave their country, land in Thailand, show a little money in the bank or become a permanent tourist and that`s it, they`re in, no questions asked. Surely this puts any country`s national security at risk and can`t be a good thing, either for the Thai people or farangs already living here.

Edited January 21, 2011 by cdnvic
removed excessive quoting

[kuffki]

i seriously am unsure of the ambassador or person writing this has any idea or has some hidden agenda.

To start with, to be a gang you would need to have a number of people, 1 or 2 trouble makers hardly classifieds it as a gang.

He/she then refers to organized crime(Russians) on the beach, what exactly are then involved in??? Unless of course he/she went to the beach and saw a large number of men in tiny speedo's and decided they were all part of organised crime

And lastly for all those who claim they can see Russian Mafia, and the person writing this cables, i do not think those have any idea what and who Russian mafia is.

For starters, bosses and top brass of the mafia are all extremely well educated and well spoken people, well dressed and mannered. So how exactly does everyone see them????

Furthermore, a large number of serious "boys" are Russian speaking, but not actually from Russia, but are from Uzbekistan or Tajikistan or Kazakhstan.

I am know 1 guy who i would call serious "man" and the only thing he does in Pattaya is, he owns a hotel, he never goes to Walking street and will never be seen anywhere in "public" places, yet somehow many TV members, including the author of the cables see guys like him all over the beaches.

If you ask me, nothing but propaganda or a poor attempt to get an increase in budget.

PS. I am not at all saying that mafia is not here, but what i am saying is that they are hardly active(in Thailand) or visible.

[sparton]

This article begins with US Embassy; as if they care or would do something!

They completely ignored me when I went to them to report 30+ ATM withdrawals that wiped out my savings- over $10,000 stolen. Not 1 investigation both US and Thailand authorities!

Totally worthless organization!

hi mate ..so how do you get you monye now still threw atm? il be in thailand in about 4 weeks any tips you can give us on this so it dont happen to me thanks

[Darkman]

Russian's and Serb's are currently the most prolific gangsters around and have been for years. I've seen them take over Spain, Czech Republic, actually most of the balkans region, Macau, Cambodia and Thailand. They are even moving into Chiang Mai slowly but surely. Nasty bunch. We should have nuked them when we had the chance in the cold war.

[Chicog]

credit checks on all international travellers would be a great way to filter out miscreants

Don't they already do that, or sort of? It's on the back of the immigration card.....

[fredlaw]

it would be real nice to bring pattaya back to when i first saw it in July 1973. beautiful beach, nice huts, no hotels, friendly natives, very few guns, no trouble makers and just a nice place to live. everything so cheap, even with the baht at 20-25 to 1. just living in the past but for those who remember those times were great. i was also nearly 40 years younger and could relax with one or two or even three at times but now just memories, good ones though. we should all live in the past, once in awhile, if it was good

[Chicog]

Russian's and Serb's are currently the most prolific gangsters around and have been for years. I've seen them take over Spain, Czech Republic, actually most of the balkans region, Macau, Cambodia and Thailand. They are even moving into Chiang Mai slowly but surely. Nasty bunch. We should have nuked them when we had the chance in the cold war.

Really? Where have they moved into Chiang Mai then? I could do with some white meat on my next trip, and I don't mean teachers with bingo wings.

[HC82]

I KNEW IT WAS PATTAYAONE BEFORE I READ A WORD

The headline alone screams this terrible sensationalist publication.

Nothing new to see hear, move along folks.

[Darkman]

Russian's and Serb's are currently the most prolific gangsters around and have been for years. I've seen them take over Spain, Czech Republic, actually most of the balkans region, Macau, Cambodia and Thailand. They are even moving into Chiang Mai slowly but surely. Nasty bunch. We should have nuked them when we had the chance in the cold war.

Really? Where have they moved into Chiang Mai then? I could do with some white meat on my next trip, and I don't mean teachers with bingo wings.

You need to stop going to the areas farang's usually go and start going to where the Thai's go, and it's not No1 bar.

[TimTang]

Where is the...

Came back...

With the exception...

Sorry for the color......

I don't really have anything to contribute but I thought I would demonstrate how you can refer to previous, incredibly long posts without repeating the entire post.

The roller ball on my mouse is starting to wear out from skimming past pages and pages of redundant text from previous posts.

Edited January 19, 2011 by TimTang

[darhut]

61guitarman61 are you going to be the saviour to save all these pure thais from the wrath of the tainted falung?

I think you will find that the lions share of the drugs in Pattaya are being sold, bought and used by thais.

Prostitution and drugs have been a part of Thailand way before the dreaded falung bought his bad habits.

As for outside mafia influences, sure there would be an accepable amount working within Thailand and if it gets too much I'm sure the thais will look after it. They have never been successfully invaded by another country, a few mafia would be a quick fix.

I'm sure thais will look after Thailand quite well without any of our interference, they are a lot smarter than some of us realize.

Regards

Reformed Drunken Diseased Falung

[TCW]

I KNEW IT WAS PATTAYAONE BEFORE I READ A WORD

The headline alone screams this terrible sensationalist publication.

Nothing new to see hear, move along folks.

Each to his own my friend.

For example, I think Pattaya One is an excellent and entertaining publication, and bravo to Thai Visa for hosting it, so Thai Visa members who do not live in Pattaya, like me, can enjoy it too.

At least the paper covers relevant matters in Pattaya, instead of filling their pages with rubbish about Chamber of Commerce parties and The Great and the Good.

Their front page stories are always entertaining as well.

Keep it coming P1.

[rafish]

This article begins with US Embassy; as if they care or would do something!

They completely ignored me when I went to them to report 30+ ATM withdrawals that wiped out my savings- over $10,000 stolen. Not 1 investigation both US and Thailand authorities!

Totally worthless organization!

Just what was the U.S.A. Embassy suppose to do about your Thai bank theft? You'll find "sympathy in the dictionary between syphilis and shit!"