Elderly Foreginers A Heavy Burden For Thai Hospitals

[NamKangMan]

At LaoPo -

I agree with you. I have insurance. HOWEVER, what about all those farang who "fall through the insurance company cracks?" Those over 70 years of age. Those with

pre-existing conditions. These people can not secure medical insurance because they are viewed as high risk.

If the Thai Government brings in a law that you have to show "proof of medical insurance" upon renewal of your retirement visa, what will these people do?

So, why don't you "give me a break" and tell these expats the name of the company who will insure you when you hit 70.?

Edited January 21, 2011 by NamKangMan

[pjclark1]

Another reason to only rent in Thailand.

Rent your home, rent your wife, rent your children.

When you are no longer welcome just leave and go somewhere else.

It doesn't matter if you are married, have children, have work, Thailand really doesn't want foreigners staying long time.

Let's face it, we all know we are not really wanted in this country. We should just accept that.

Edited January 21, 2011 by pjclark1

[Naam]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

Most older people have conditions that won't ever be covered by private companies. That's why a blanket requirement is not reasonable and why it wouldn't solve the problem.

it surely would solve the problem. no health insurance = no entry! if one of my foreign relatives want to visit us in our home country Germany we have to provide proof of German temporary health insurance before any visa (if validity exceeds 30 days) is issued.

[Naam]

Another reason to only rent in Thailand.

Rent your home, rent your wife, rent your children.

When you are no longer welcome just leave and go somewhere else.

It doesn't matter if you are married, have children, have work, Thailand really doesn't want foreigners staying long time.

Let's face it, we all know we are not really wanted in this country. We should just accept that.

yada... yada... yada... yakety yak

[jayboy]

Another reason to only rent in Thailand.

Rent your home, rent your wife, rent your children.

When you are no longer welcome just leave and go somewhere else.

It doesn't matter if you are married, have children, have work, Thailand really doesn't want foreigners staying long time.

Let's face it, we all know we are not really wanted in this country. We should just accept that.

I'm not sure it's true that Thailand doesn't want foreigners staying long time, simply that foreign resident "retirees" should not be a drain on the country (at minimum) and (preferably) be relatively well off.

It's true that Thailand offers retirement visas but there's no official policy of encouraging foreigners to retire here.There is profound irritation at others who abuse Thailand's generous entry policy and either live permanently or even work here on the basis of a wholly inappropriate visa status.The whole visa run industry is a blatant defiance of the spirit if not the letter of the Thai law.In a word many influential Thais are frankly pissed off at the vast legion of poorly educated and modestly well off foreign "residents" that do nothing for the country but through their khi nok character bring the country's reputation down at a time when Thailand is looking to take its tourist industry upmarket.

Frankly if a resident, even if properly authorised, cannot afford gilt edged health insurance that covers all eventualities (or of course the wealth to cover all bills), he has no business being here at all.The reality however is that most of these people seem to think they have some sort of right to stay here permanently.Short answer is that they don't and the repercussions of their misunderstanding will become clear in due course.All the signs are already there.

[toenail]

After paying my bills at Pattaya Bangkok hospital I feel there needs to be a title about hospitals charging too much to foreigners. (yes, I know the private ones are like a profit making business).

[LaoPo]

At LaoPo -

I agree with you. I have insurance. HOWEVER, what about all those farang who "fall through the insurance company cracks?" Those over 70 years of age. Those with

pre-existing conditions. These people can not secure medical insurance because they are viewed as high risk.

If the Thai Government brings in a law that you have to show "proof of medical insurance" upon renewal of your retirement visa, what will these people do?

So, why don't you "give me a break" and tell these expats the name of the company who will insure you when you hit 70.?

If you've hit 70 and you haven't been wise enough to buy a health insurance BEFORE that age..what can I say? (I'm not talking about you, personally)

Even in a case that someone is 50 and doesn't have a health insurance but wants to live in Thailand, has to face the financial consequences if something happens to him, not the Thai Government nor anyone else.

Yes, give me a break, since I don't know anything about insurance companies willing to insure 70+ guys who want to enjoy the girls, sunshine and beaches, but if I were an insurance company I wouldn't accept them BECAUSE they never thought of buying health insurance themselves in their own home countries and didn't have enough respect for their own body and mind to even care about a health care insurance in the first place.

So, now they've hit 70, are considered high risk insurance "target", and now "I" would be good enough to give them an insurance...?...........don't make me laugh

LaoPo

[personchester]

"................marrying Thai women, some of whom left them after their money ran out."

Perhaps that should have read "some of whom left after spending/stealing all their money."

Well, that would only happen to a fellow with little intelligence and poor practicalities, ... due the fact that his mother looked after him (more than needed) in every way, until he got married to his western wife, the wife then takes over all his mothers duties.

At work the foreman /manager instructs him daily what to do, his wife who runs the home gets of course 100 % of his wage packet and she gives him 10 % pocket money, so that he can go to his local pup to play darts, discuss football, and get pissed.

After the divorce (in the UK) he comes to Thailand, again he needs a woman to look after him, and as usual gives the woman control of his life, including his income (pension this time) his savings (if any) will soon be gone, and his UK state pension being frozen since he came to Thailand and low in comparison with other major western countries) will not be enough to keep the Thai woman happy, and she leaves him, now he is on his own and the resulting problems are obvious.

Normal chaps on the other hand, would keep control of their money (cash and bank A/c) and his Thai wife (G.F) needs to ask him for money when needed, and he then decides what to give her, and that is the right way.

[Naam]

LaoPo, one size does not fit all.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit. In order to do that, premiums are set so that the average person spends more in premiums than they would spend on reimbursable medical care. I'm extremely healthy and have a net worth approaching 8 figures (USD, GBP, Euros; doesn't matter). I've got homes on two continents and travel extensively. Good insurance that would cover me anywhere in the world would be very expensive. So I'm self-insured. If I wind up with a 1,000,000 medical bill someday, so be it. My heirs can fend for themselves.

Many people are over-insured, whether it be life insurance or medical insurance.

Your generalization about people with no insurance, is just your opinion.

I don't appreciate being called dumb.

that's because you did not enter into a health insurance scheme when you were young. the private first class health insurance (i am insured since 39 years, my wife since 31 years) which covers us worldwide, costs the peanuts amount of €UR 3,100 per annum however hospital expenses only, not ambulant health care.

p.s. if we'd get that same health insurance cover now (age 67 and 60) we'd pay something like €UR 17,000 p.a.

[LaoPo]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

Most older people have conditions that won't ever be covered by private companies. That's why a blanket requirement is not reasonable and why it wouldn't solve the problem.

it surely would solve the problem. no health insurance = no entry! if one of my foreign relatives want to visit us in our home country Germany we have to provide proof of German temporary health insurance before any visa (if validity exceeds 30 days) is issued.

Precisely; My gosh, I really don't understand people who expect the Thai Government or Thai Hospitals and Doctors to take care of medical bills for FOREIGNERS who have no health insurance but decided to LIVE in this country.

Unbelievable.

If that were the case, the country would face a tsunami of foreigners with serious medical problems, coming to Thailand and "enjoy" the good willing Government and/or hospitals/Doctors.

That'll be the day and the planes will be full of cheap -sick- Charlies....from all over the world...

LaoPo

[Soutpeel]

ah sure, blame the Thai Government

....Paragraphs like that show the "nanny state" mentality surfacing again as with the poster.

As a suggested alternative to having mandatory medical insurance for retiree's visa

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

This would go a long way as to alleviate the problem of retiree's being refused insurance and not being able to pay for medical care

The only loop hole in this at present of how to deal with retiree's who are the 65k/month criteria ?

[rgs2001uk]

ah sure, blame the Thai Government

....Paragraphs like that show the "nanny state" mentality surfacing again as with the poster.

As a suggested alternative to having mandatory medical insurance for retiree's visa

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

This would go a long way as to alleviate the problem of retiree's being refused insurance and not being able to pay for medical care

The only loop hole in this at present of how to deal with retiree's who are the 65k/month criteria ?

No problem at all Southie, 65k per month letter and medical insurance as in options 1 and 2 above.

[Soutpeel]

ah sure, blame the Thai Government

....Paragraphs like that show the "nanny state" mentality surfacing again as with the poster.

As a suggested alternative to having mandatory medical insurance for retiree's visa

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

This would go a long way as to alleviate the problem of retiree's being refused insurance and not being able to pay for medical care

The only loop hole in this at present of how to deal with retiree's who are the 65k/month criteria ?

No problem at all Southie, 65k per month letter and medical insurance as in options 1 and 2 above.

True...

[NamKangMan]

At LaoPo -

Firstly, you health insurance from back home doesn't cover you whilst abroad (I know mine doesn't).

Travel insurance, life insurance and trauma insurance does.

I am concerned that travel insurance might not pay out if you are "settled" in a foreign country and are clearly living there. Eg. bought a house, long term lease etc. I will have to research this more.

If you are over 70 years of age and/or have a serious pre-existing condition, and apply for health insurance now, your application will be rejected. If you have a policy now, but turn 70, it will not be renewed.

My question to you is, what are these people to do if the Thai Government brings in a law that you have to show "proof of medical insurance" to obtain your yearly retirement visa????

[NamKangMan]

ah sure, blame the Thai Government

....Paragraphs like that show the "nanny state" mentality surfacing again as with the poster.

As a suggested alternative to having mandatory medical insurance for retiree's visa

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

This would go a long way as to alleviate the problem of retiree's being refused insurance and not being able to pay for medical care

The only loop hole in this at present of how to deal with retiree's who are the 65k/month criteria ?

You have miss quoted me. That was LaoPo's comment. Not mine.

I will say this again, loudly because this is really what the thread is about.

WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OVER 70's AND PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WHO CAN NOT GET MEDICAL INSURANCE????

How will these people be able to show "proof of medical insurance" so they can gain a retirement visa????

Maybe they are wealthy. Maybe they are super rich. If they can't get a peice of paper from an insurance company, how will they get their retirement visa. Do you understand the question????

[Soutpeel]

At LaoPo -

Firstly, you health insurance from back home doesn't cover you whilst abroad (I know mine doesn't).

Travel insurance, life insurance and trauma insurance does.

I am concerned that travel insurance might not pay out if you are "settled" in a foreign country and are clearly living there. Eg. bought a house, long term lease etc. I will have to research this more.

If you are over 70 years of age and/or have a serious pre-existing condition, and apply for health insurance now, your application will be rejected. If you have a policy now, but turn 70, it will not be renewed.

My question to you is, what are these people to do if the Thai Government brings in a law that you have to show "proof of medical insurance" to obtain your yearly retirement visa????

Actually it does, if you have the right policy...Back home for me could be classed as the UK and my medical insurance is from the UK, for worldwide, excluding US, and seeing as I have no intention of travelling to the "Land "O" Free"....the policy works for me, and has done so for many years in Thailand

If you living as a "resident" in a particular country, of course travel insurance many not cover you...you are not a tourist...

In response to your question...see above for the answer...my proposal would consider those who are unable to secure medical insurance...

[powderpuff]

Actually you should throw them into high risk pools, and let them pay MUCH higher preminums. Why should healthy people have to pay for the sick? I mean we need fairness. I don't smoke & I don't want to pay for idiots that do.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Rimmer
Incorrect quote removed

[ronz28]

Strict health entry requirements and requiring visa holders to prove up health insurance coverage with every visa renewal/extension should help reduce the problem. Deny the visa if they don't have it and deport them back to their country if they let it lapse. Why should Thailand pay for the health problems of some other country? Those from other countries might just chip together to buy their old worn out men a one way ticket to Thailand rather than making them help themselves or caring for them in their old age.

[coma]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

[Mobi]

I would like to make comment to all those who are screaming that retirees should have 'blanket health insurance'.

I carried first class UK based health insurance through various employers for a period of over 20 years, up to the age of 60 when I finally came off my last employer's payroll.

When I enquired from my last health insurer if I could continue the cover on my own recognizance, they said that they would NOT cover me for any medical conditions that had arisen during the period of my earlier cover. This meant that cover for any diabetic related illness and any coronary related illness would be excluded.

I have since taken out medical insurance from a another UK based carrier, but the aforementioned medical conditions have been excluded from my cover.

I will never find an insurer , at any price, at my age, to cover me for those conditions. I do however have sufficient funds to pay for any medical treatment myself, including heart surgery.

So the proposal that all retirees must have blanket health insurance is not practical as many people over 60 will have developed chronic medical conditions and many will have heart conditions, most of which will not be covered by their insurance. So a great number would be obliged to pack their bags and go home, including me, notwithstanding the fact that most will have the ability to pay, outside of their partial or non existent insurance cover.

I reiterate my view that the suggestions contained in this thread to solve the problem is akin to 'using a sledge hammer to crack a nut'. The problem is very small and most farangs have sufficient money and/or insurance cover to take care of any medical emergencies that may arise, and in the meantime they are pumping millions upon millions of foreign currencies into the Thai economy.

I am not condoning those who do not pay up, but trying to keep it into perspective. I am sure there is a simple solution to enable the hospital's losses to be recovered, without having to resort to the draconian measures that have been proposed.

For example, how about a small levy on all farangs when they renew their retirement visas which would go into a special fund to pay outstanding medical bills incurred by foreigners? I have no idea of the numbers, but if there are, say, five thousand retirees in Thailand and the unpaid medical bills are 2 million Baht then the levy would be 400 Baht per person. Won't exactly break the bank will it?

But of course it will never happen.

I personally think that the Thai government should swallow the cost provided it doesn't get too much out of control. I doubt if there is a country in the world which doesn't experience similar annual costs in respect of destitute aliens in their country who become ill and die. It is all part of running a country and having a large tourist industry, especially when you are also encouraging foreigners to live here and bring their money here. A small price to pay, methinks.

Let there be no doubt - the comparative ease of obtaining a retirement visa in Thailand is not an accident of history. It is there because the smart ones in the government understand the contribution retirees make to the Thai economy. If there ever comes a time when it was felt that our presence here had outweighed our usefulness, there would be absolutely no sentiment involved in cranking up the visa requirements which would send most of us packing.

And don't think your embassies will come to your rescue and make representations to the Thai government. They couldn't give sh.t and will be glad to see us gone.

The day will come, but I know not when.

Be warned, and be prepared.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Mobi

[nam-thip]

Doesn't the UK have free Gov't health insurance for senior citizens?

Free you ask?

If you call paying income tax and various government insurances all my working life and still paying income tax from my company pension now i'm retired, then yes, it must be "free"

[nam-thip]

I don't believe for one minute what the article or any Thai national has to say on the subject of foreigners being treated for free in Thai hospitals due to having no medical insurance or the ability to pay, and how they are a drain on the Thai health system's finances.

What utter crap to come out with that hogwash of a statement, to me it’s the same old story being regurgitated that when something isn't working or goes wrong in this country they always seem to blame outsiders, it's never themselves at fault.

How many times have we heard of foreigners (unconscious) not being treated because they cannot answer the question as to whether they have medical insurance or the ability to pay?

[Soutpeel]

ah sure, blame the Thai Government

....Paragraphs like that show the "nanny state" mentality surfacing again as with the poster.

As a suggested alternative to having mandatory medical insurance for retiree's visa

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

This would go a long way as to alleviate the problem of retiree's being refused insurance and not being able to pay for medical care

The only loop hole in this at present of how to deal with retiree's who are the 65k/month criteria ?

You have miss quoted me. That was LaoPo's comment. Not mine.

I will say this again, loudly because this is really what the thread is about.

WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OVER 70's AND PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WHO CAN NOT GET MEDICAL INSURANCE????

How will these people be able to show "proof of medical insurance" so they can gain a retirement visa????

Maybe they are wealthy. Maybe they are super rich. If they can't get a peice of paper from an insurance company, how will they get their retirement visa. Do you understand the question????

If they cant get the insurance, then per my option 2.....800k as normal in bank + addtional 800k, therefore total 1.6 million to cost of unforseen medical expenses and no insurance certificate required...

Unlike some of the posters who on TV who dont have medical insurance, I do..and my hearing is perfect....so no need to shout...

[OzMick]

"................marrying Thai women, some of whom left them after their money ran out."

Perhaps that should have read "some of whom left after spending/stealing all their money."

Well, that would only happen to a fellow with little intelligence and poor practicalities, ... due the fact that his mother looked after him (more than needed) in every way, until he got married to his western wife, the wife then takes over all his mothers duties.

At work the foreman /manager instructs him daily what to do, his wife who runs the home gets of course 100 % of his wage packet and she gives him 10 % pocket money, so that he can go to his local pup to play darts, discuss football, and get pissed.

After the divorce (in the UK) he comes to Thailand, again he needs a woman to look after him, and as usual gives the woman control of his life, including his income (pension this time) his savings (if any) will soon be gone, and his UK state pension being frozen since he came to Thailand and low in comparison with other major western countries) will not be enough to keep the Thai woman happy, and she leaves him, now he is on his own and the resulting problems are obvious.

Normal chaps on the other hand, would keep control of their money (cash and bank A/c) and his Thai wife (G.F) needs to ask him for money when needed, and he then decides what to give her, and that is the right way.

You obviously don't understand the legal complexities of marriage to a Thai woman. Under Thai law, a man and his wife are the same legal entity for as long as they stay married - and possessions are held in common. I kicked my wife out after she started to sell our assets (and she legally entitled to do so) but she returned to my house while I was ill, drugged me and kept me near comatose for 3 days while she stole my ATM card and withdrew the maximum limit per day as well as taking an expensive dive school (she can't swim) - some B300,000 worth in total.

She also lifted the blue book for my truck, illegally (?) changed it to her name and re-financed it for another B300,000. And the only thing in this little act of larceny that the police considered possibly illegal was presenting forged paperwork to the motor registry, but as it couldn't be found (I kid you, not) no prosecution was possible.

To put cream on the cake, if I had paid the money owing on my truck, they would only give the ownership book to her even though I was the one with the readies and I hope they had to get a proctologist to remove it if they followed my suggestion.

All my major assets are kept safely in another country, but I still took a hit for around B800,000. For some of us, that would be financially crippling.

By the way, if you want a divorce, a judge will decide what proportion of joint assets will go to her, unless you can get her to sign an agreement. If you falsify your assets declaration and she can convince the judge that you have offshore assets, criminal penalties may apply. Or you can take her fishing.......................................

[el jefe]

LaoPo, one size does not fit all.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit. In order to do that, premiums are set so that the average person spends more in premiums than they would spend on reimbursable medical care. I'm extremely healthy and have a net worth approaching 8 figures (USD, GBP, Euros; doesn't matter). I've got homes on two continents and travel extensively. Good insurance that would cover me anywhere in the world would be very expensive. So I'm self-insured. If I wind up with a 1,000,000 medical bill someday, so be it. My heirs can fend for themselves.

Many people are over-insured, whether it be life insurance or medical insurance.

Your generalization about people with no insurance, is just your opinion.

I don't appreciate being called dumb.

that's because you did not enter into a health insurance scheme when you were young. the private first class health insurance (i am insured since 39 years, my wife since 31 years) which covers us worldwide, costs the peanuts amount of €UR 3,100 per annum however hospital expenses only, not ambulant health care.

p.s. if we'd get that same health insurance cover now (age 67 and 60) we'd pay something like €UR 17,000 p.a.

I'm still young enough to get insurance here or in my home country (US). As my only residence in the US is in New York State I am subject to NYS laws. I can buy insurance today and it will cost me the exact same amount as someone who has had insurance all their life. Or, I can wait another 10 years and buy it then. It will not change how much I pay. The problem is that healthy people have to pay for the smokers, drinkers, obese, and accident prone. LaoPo says he's been in the hospital for a week or more 7 times in the last few years. In the last 45 years I've spent 3 nights in a hospital and my lifetime medical bills have been under $10,000.

I want medical insurance that will cover any type of accident or illness in either Thailand, NYC, or anywhere I happen to be traveling and I want to be able to choose which doctor I see and what hospital I go to. That would cost me about $10,000 a year. If I don't buy medical insurance for the next 20 years, I'll have about $200,000 saved that I can use if something catastrophic happens. And yes, I'll put that money aside. I'm sure at some point in my life, I'll need to use much of it.

So that's the real problem. It's not that people have no insurance, it's that they haven't saved anything. Soutpeel is on the right track when he says:

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

The only thing I would change is that the second 800K amount is only a fraction of what should be required.

Edited January 21, 2011 by el jefe

[jayboy]

Let there be no doubt - the comparative ease of obtaining a retirement visa in Thailand is not an accident of history. It is there because the smart ones in the government understand the contribution retirees make to the Thai economy.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.Indeed the current position is to a major extent indeed an accident of history.If you believe the "smart ones in the government" have given the matter serious thought at all you are much mistaken.To my knowledge if there is a view at all it is that there are far far too many indigent foreigners abusing Thailand's generous entry policy.In fact all the evidence suggests there is a tightening up, not in the drastic way you suggest but little by little over time.

[el jefe]

PS -- I've also posted on TV that an expat couple could live comfortably in northern Thailand on 30,000B/month + medical and travel expenses. So for those of you who know me, don't come looking for money.

My only point is that purchasing insurance is a personal matter. It's a product just like any other. And as this thread proves, there are many, many varieties. If someone determines that they don't need it, that doesn't make them an idiot. They just have to understand the consequnces. Just as the Thai govt and hospitals must understand the consequences of allowing people into the country without such insurance.

LaoPo, one size does not fit all.

Insurance companies are in business to make a profit. In order to do that, premiums are set so that the average person spends more in premiums than they would spend on reimbursable medical care. I'm extremely healthy and have a net worth approaching 8 figures (USD, GBP, Euros; doesn't matter). I've got homes on two continents and travel extensively. Good insurance that would cover me anywhere in the world would be very expensive. So I'm self-insured. If I wind up with a 1,000,000 medical bill someday, so be it. My heirs can fend for themselves.

Many people are over-insured, whether it be life insurance or medical insurance.

Your generalization about people with no insurance, is just your opinion.

I don't appreciate being called dumb.

that's because you did not enter into a health insurance scheme when you were young. the private first class health insurance (i am insured since 39 years, my wife since 31 years) which covers us worldwide, costs the peanuts amount of €UR 3,100 per annum however hospital expenses only, not ambulant health care.

p.s. if we'd get that same health insurance cover now (age 67 and 60) we'd pay something like €UR 17,000 p.a.

I'm still young enough to get insurance here or in my home country (US). As my only residence in the US is in New York State I am subject to NYS laws. I can buy insurance today and it will cost me the exact same amount as someone who has had insurance all their life. Or, I can wait another 10 years and buy it then. It will not change how much I pay. The problem is that healthy people have to pay for the smokers, drinkers, obese, and accident prone. LaoPo says he's been in the hospital for a week or more 7 times in the last few years. In the last 45 years I've spent 3 nights in a hospital and my lifetime medical bills have been under $10,000.

I want medical insurance that will cover any type of accident or illness in either Thailand, NYC, or anywhere I happen to be traveling and I want to be able to choose which doctor I see and what hospital I go to. That would cost me about $10,000 a year. If I don't buy medical insurance for the next 20 years, I'll have about $200,000 saved that I can use if something catastrophic happens. And yes, I'll put that money aside. I'm sure at some point in my life, I'll need to use much of it.

So that's the real problem. It's not that people have no insurance, it's that they haven't saved anything. Soutpeel is on the right track when he says:

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

The only thing I would change is that the second 800K amount is only a fraction of what should be required.

[coma]

ah sure, blame the Thai Government

....Paragraphs like that show the "nanny state" mentality surfacing again as with the poster.

As a suggested alternative to having mandatory medical insurance for retiree's visa

Option 1

800k in the bank + Medical insurance

Option 2

1.6 million in the bank (800k per normal + 800k for unforseen medical treatment)

This would go a long way as to alleviate the problem of retiree's being refused insurance and not being able to pay for medical care

The only loop hole in this at present of how to deal with retiree's who are the 65k/month criteria ?

You have miss quoted me. That was LaoPo's comment. Not mine.

I will say this again, loudly because this is really what the thread is about.

WHAT ABOUT ALL THE OVER 70's AND PEOPLE WITH PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS WHO CAN NOT GET MEDICAL INSURANCE????

How will these people be able to show "proof of medical insurance" so they can gain a retirement visa????

Maybe they are wealthy. Maybe they are super rich. If they can't get a peice of paper from an insurance company, how will they get their retirement visa. Do you understand the question????

If they cant get the insurance, then per my option 2.....800k as normal in bank + addtional 800k, therefore total 1.6 million to cost of unforseen medical expenses and no insurance certificate required...

Unlike some of the posters who on TV who dont have medical insurance, I do..and my hearing is perfect....so no need to shout...

Now this idea sure does have merit.

[Mobi]

Let there be no doubt - the comparative ease of obtaining a retirement visa in Thailand is not an accident of history. It is there because the smart ones in the government understand the contribution retirees make to the Thai economy.

I am afraid you are completely wrong.Indeed the current position is to a major extent indeed an accident of history.If you believe the "smart ones in the government" have given the matter serious thought at all you are much mistaken.To my knowledge if there is a view at all it is that there are far far too many indigent foreigners abusing Thailand's generous entry policy.In fact all the evidence suggests there is a tightening up, not in the drastic way you suggest but little by little over time.

Well we are all entitled to our views but I think you are the one who is completely wrong. It is not an accident of history – it is what it is, because for the time being they are satisfied with the current visa requirements - that they weed out most of the ‘dead beats’ with no money that they don’t want here.

If you are correct in your views, how is it that from time to time the requirements are changed? A couple of years back there was a big shake up of the so- called visa runners and even to those who held large deposits here which used to enable them to obtain an annual ‘investment’ visa. That visa no longer exists as before.

I believe they know exactly what they are doing, and are continually reviewing the requirements for retirement visas – hence the need to now hold the 800k in a bank for 3 months, whereas before it only had to be there on the day of visa renewal.

It is also very apparent that they are trying to get rid of the ‘marriage visa’ as they have realised that most people holding such visas are not contributing much to the Thai economy. They used to take the view that the men were taking care of a Thai family, but that view no longer prevails. Their current view seems to be that if you can’t fulfil the minimum requirements for a retirement visa – then ‘on your bike’.

But in spite of all this alleged anti 'dead- beat' or just general anti-foreigner sentiment, the 'powers that be' are smart enough to read their own numbers,supplied to them by their Thai banks, of the amount of money that is remitted here by foreign 'residents' and also as many of those 'powers' are also businessmen in such sectors as property, housing etc, they do understand the contribution that well off foreigners make to their businesses and to the country in general.

They want to keep the rich, high spending ones here (as do most countries), and get rid of the rest.

As I said in my previous post, be warned, for I am sure the retirement visa requirements will be cranked up a notch or two in the not too distant future.

[personchester]

The simple/sensible solution would be to require all retiree's in Thailand to have valid medical insurance as part of the visa issue/renewal process, no insurance no renewal of visa....its that simple.

It is completely beyond me why someone would live in a foreign country, with no access/right to "free" medical treatment and not have medical insurance even at a basic level

I couldn't agree more. Not just the elderly, but many foreigners of all ages just love to live in Thailand burning the candle at both ends and living well beyong thier means.

The Thais refer to these individuals as "Farang Khee Nok ฝรั่งขี้นก". Which literally means " Bird shit Foriegner.

Then all of a sudden. Medical emergency! Ohh! No money to pay the medical bills. Next minute those close to these sorry individuals have the hide to pass the hat around looking for donations to bail these guys out. I have seen this too many times to count over the years.If you run out of money and cannot finance yourself for ANY situation that may arise whilst abroad, then I am sorry but it is time to face reality and GO HOME!!!! These <deleted> are what gives foreigners a bad name here in Thailand. One more time. GO HOME!!!! :jap:

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